NeustradamusWhere is the up-to-date memberbot source code?
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pep.Neustradamus, https://github.com/legastero/memberbot/network/members I think
pep.Ah wait, it says archived
pep.Link Mauve has a few patches on top, but it's the only fork apparently so..
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ralphmHmm, maybe ask Lance when he wakes
ralphmWe could have him move it to our org
ralphmLeaving forks intact
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NeustradamusBecause there is a problem (I have auto capitalize the first letter of sentence in my client) and when we click on "yes" it is Yes, it does not work.
There is no problem for "no" it is no.
SeveAh yeah, it only allows "Yes" as "Yes" haha :D
linkmauveThankfully Yes! will get interpreted as 1! which as everyone knows is equal to 1.
ZashMotivate me or someone to fix up the buttons XEP
ZashThe return of the revenge of the unintended factorial!
Ge0rGZash: data forms!
linkmauveAd-hoc commands!
ralphmpubsub
Zashall of the above, plus jingle!
GuusDonkey!
Seveomg
Zashdataform in ad-hoc command over p2p-xmpp offered via jingle session in pep
SeveNow I'm listening
pep.Ge0rG, will you also allow me to have: はい, ええ, えー, いいえ, いえ, いいや, いや ? :P
pep.or Guus ^ (dunno who was talking about it)
GuusBlamimng Ge0rG for all of this works for me.
Ge0rG"Say yes or no. Please pronounce it clearly, our speech analysis sucks."
ralphmAlso XEP-0132.
linkmauvepep., with context dependent answer to actually pick no when you say はい to a negative question.
pep.linkmauve, of course
pep.That's what I expect from locale handling
Ge0rGwasn't there a language where "no" actually means yes?
Ge0rGUh-oh, I hope I'm not triggering an army of SJWs now.
linkmauveGe0rG, that was the essence of my joke. :p
GuusPolish, according to my Google-foo.
pep.In Japanese you answer positively (Yes) to a negative question if you agree with the negation
pep.But it's not just them, I actually also do that in french and english nowadays :x
Ge0rGlinkmauve: but I don't understand Japanese.
linkmauveAh, too bad.
linkmauvepep., oh no.
ralphmpep.: I do that a lot
Ge0rGIn German you have "ja", "nein" and "doch". When asked a negated question, you use the latter two
pep.Ge0rG, yeah there's also « si » in french
pep.("doch" equivalent I guess)
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Ge0rGlanguage is complicated. Let's go fishing.
linkmauveGreat, I now have a Pod which can do fishing.
linkmauveIt costed me 5000G and takes [3] space in memory.
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GuusHey, this is interesting. We had someone trying to send s2s spam over a server using anonymous logins (we disallow s2s traffic for anonymous sessions). Now the intended recipient (that would not have received anything) is replying back with StopSpam Question subject messages containing a simple math problem.
Ge0rGGuus: how does the recipient know?
Guusexactly.
Ge0rGmaybe your s2s blocker is faulty?
Ge0rGis the intended recipient on your own server?
GuusPretty sure it's not - I'm guessing that the recipient expected the spam to arrive, didn't, and is trying to make it come through with sending questions to de-block data.
Guuswhich suggests recipient and sender are the same party.
Guusno, they're on xmpp.jp.
ZashIntelesting
Ge0rGGuus: I'm pretty sure this is not how the StopSpam thing works.
Ge0rGGuus: maybe it reacts to presence, not to messages, and your s2s blocker only blocks the latter?
GuusCan't rule out a bug
Guusbut it should
Guusfeel free to give it a test on igniterealtime.org
Ge0rGGuus: is that the anon domain?
Ge0rGI don't even know how to login to an anon domain
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GuusGe0rG yes - Smack supports it, afaik
DanielSo does Conversations
DanielEnter a random local part
Guusit's a SASL mechanism
Ge0rGYay, let's crash yaxim!
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GuusThanks for the minutes, Daniel
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Ge0rGHm. It won't let me in.
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Ge0rGBecause I try SCRAM-SHA1, which is advertised, and which obviously fails
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Ge0rGDaniel: doesn't work with Conversations either :(
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Danielyes because of the same reason
Ge0rGGuus: your server is broken :P
Guusohboy
Guusthe _spammers_ can get in... 😉
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Danieli wonder if i should make it work with anon available && password.isEmpty()
Danielor something
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GuusGeorg, what exactly happens?
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Guuswait, you guys expect anonymous to be the only SASL mechanism that's offered?
Ge0rGDaniel: that would be the obvious hack
ZashThings seem easier if anonymous users are namespaced onto another virtualhost
Ge0rGI still can't join the MUC, but it seems to be a yaxim bug
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Guusopenfire@ is a private muc, I think. Try open_chat
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NeustradamusGuus: Smack has SCRAM-SHA-1 and SCRAM-SHA-1-PLUS? https://issues.igniterealtime.org/browse/SMACK-749
Ge0rGGuus: if it's a private MUC, why did I get one message from it?
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NeustradamusIgnite Realtime products are not in the good category?
-> https://github.com/scram-xmpp/info/issues/1
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GuusNeustradamus I would appreciate it if you stop following me around with the same question.
GuusGe0rG I'm unsure if it's private, or simply unlisted, or something else - it's not the regular room that I thought you ment to use, which would be open_chat
NeustradamusI do a search and I have found: https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/saslerror-using-scram-sha-1-malformed-request/73391 and the ticket
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Ge0rGGuus: it was listed in disco#items
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Ge0rGGuus: looks like the room isn't sending a subject.
GuusGe0rG any pointers to the proper handling of undeliverable presence stanzas?
GuusOpenfire is dropping all of them silently
Ge0rGGuus: send back... a presence error!
Guusprobably not always
Ge0rGnot on unavailable, I'd assume
Ge0rGI'm not an expert in that field, sorry
GuusQuickly scanning the RFC gives me more than that'd be a quick fix
Ge0rG> After the room has optionally sent the discussion history to the new occupant, it SHALL send the current room subject.
On some days, I hate XEP-0045
KevWe'd bounce a stanza when it can't be delivered unless it's type=error or type=result.
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Ge0rGWait, SHALL is a synonym to MUST. That makes my hate disappear.
Ge0rGGuus: look, you are violating XEP-0045 there :D
Ge0rGKev: why don't you bounce type=result?
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ZashRelatedly, what do you do if you recieve a malformed error stanza?
KevBecause you never reply to a result?
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ZashYell "garbage in, garbage out!" and deliver it?
Ge0rGZash: define "malformed"
ZashActually, the issue I'm thinking of is with a malformed iq-reply, a disco#info response where all the <features> went into the top level stanza and the actual <{disco#info>query> payload is missing.
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ZashThus, having more than 2 direct child tags, which is forbidden
ZashActually, type=reply can't have more than 1, but still
lovetoxGe0rG, if you just discovered that, and now implement that you are only really joined if you receive the subject
lovetoxprepare for older ejabberd server that dont send empty subjects :)
lovetoxand in fact prosody didnt do this also once
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lovetoxif you want to test old ejabberds jabber.ru is a good testing ground :)
Ge0rGlovetox: I remember those issues, yeah. How do you "complete" a join then? On self-presence?
Ge0rGAre there still servers that don't add 110?
lovetoxno a join is complete if you receive a subject
lovetoxi put a timer, when i receive self presence
lovetoxmeans joins on not compliant servers need longer, but not really my problem, they can upgrade their software
pep.yeah because then you can't distinguish between muc history and normal delayed messages
lovetoxcorrectly !
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lovetoxcorrect !
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lovetoxand this is for another reason important
lovetoxservers dont validate delay timestamps on groupchat messages
lovetoxand if i receive a message with a timestamp by attr = muc jid that means i respect that timestamp as the true timestamp
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lovetoxif i receive a message with a timestamp not set by the server, i save both timestamps, the one i received and one that is potentially set by a user
lovetoxand because servers dont validate the by attr in delay timestamps
lovetoxyou cant just simply parse the by attr
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pep.Do you btw invert the trust model once you start seeing e2ee? :P
lovetoxyou need the subject to determine if its a muc history message
lovetoxpep., what does that mean "invert the trust model"
pep.Well here you rely on the server doing "the right thing" and users potentially being evil, from what I understand
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lovetoxyes
lovetoxi dont see how that changes with e2e
pep.In the e2ee world, people don't trust their server (otherwise there's little point)
lovetoxthey trust the server with everything but keeping message content private
pep.So in their view, I guess, the server would be the evil actor and they're be the ones to do the right thing
pep.*they'd
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Guus> After the room has optionally sent the discussion history to the new occupant, it SHALL send the current room subject.
GuusGe0rG that doesn't say that a room MUST have a subject?
pep.It can be empty
lovetoxyes Guus you should send a empty subject
pep.But it must be
Guussrsly/
lovetoxyes otherwise how do we differentiate between muc history and live messages?
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pep.<delay/> only happens in MUC history right? :P
lovetoxthat you have in your implementation NULL for subject and consider this "not empty", i think is not really the point of the xep
ZashNext up: Clients are technically allowed to send messages with subjects that are not the room subject, iff they also include a body.
lovetoxpep., delay happens when a client adds it
pep.lovetox, that was a joke
lovetox:)
Ge0rGpep.: it was a very evil joke
lovetoxZash, yeah also a good point, Gajim should interpret this correctly :)
pep.Ge0rG, I guess that's what the XEP authors thought?
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pep.Or predicted, rather
Ge0rGsomebody remind me to send a PR to fix that place of the XEP
pep.Ge0rG, That's also how poezio works anyway.. Remember that obnoxious grey color?
pep.It is indeed (evil). https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/L3qjPKnmAFR5iyoR/not-grey.png if somebody wants to tackle the issue
pep.fail.
pep.https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/poezio/issues/3142 this
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Ge0rG> Opened 3 years ago by ge0rg
Ge0rGEverything old is new again.
pep.What is dead may never die
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Guusthird PR gone into Openfire. Tx Ge0rG
Ge0rGGuus: thanks!
GuusDon't thank me yet: these were shot from the hip.
Ge0rGGuus: deploy to igniterealtime, see what happens
Ge0rGfriday afternoon is the best time for that
GuusYeah, maybe
GuusI should get back to work first 🙂
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DanielIs fasten going to be used for the full qoute / reference use case?
pep.Daniel, might even be called "Attach" in the end! See standards@
Ge0rG🙈🙉🙊
pep.And yes
pep.Or is reference going to be used for mentions etc. still?
GuusAre we intentionally sending out repeated newsletter tweets? It is starting to get annoying.
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Danielcan we get an example in the XEP (for quoteing a message)
DanielGuus, that annoys me to
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Danielnot that i wouldn’t know how. it's just that i want it explicit that this xep is meant for that
Guusnyco are you triggering these? Maybe cut down on the frequency?
Ge0rGGuus: the worst thing is that the tweets lack actual content
Ge0rGthey look like a badly trained AI. Sorry.
Ge0rGor maybe an attempt at SEO
ZashLike the rest of Twitter? </troll>
Danielso references and old attaching are going to be obsoleted?
jonas’Daniel, I don’t think so
jonas’AAUI, Kev intends to rebase/adapt References to Fastening
jonas’or revamp it at least
jonas’Fastening and References serve different use-cases
KevReferences gets updated to use fastening once fastening's published, and the idea is that old attaching goes away, yes.
Danieland isn’t quoting referse fasting? if you consider the MAM playout you want the original message with the quote and not the quotes for the original message
Danielor maybe you want the later
Danielor maybe both
jonas’Kev, humm, isn’t fastening supposed to be 1:N, i.e. a message can be fastened to at most one other message, but a message can have multiple messages fastened to it?
jonas’how would that work with multiple mentions, for example?
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Ge0rGfasten your references!
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Danielfwiw it is completely not obvious from reading the current XEP that this can (even remotely) be used for quoteing
Daniel> that adds additional information to the context of a previous message.
i'm really not sure that quoteing falls under that category
ralphmjonas’: yes 1:N
ralphmI don't think that quoting is a good use case for this. You might use references instead.
ralphmI'll try to 'complete' my blog post with many examples this weekend.
ralphmIncluding renderings
ralphm(of fasten, references, and combinations thereof)
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Danielok. i’ll just wait then. because right now i can’t picture any of this
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Ge0rGGuus, pep.: I've been really blind regarding the no-subject-set thing. It's actually right there, in your face, in Example 42: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#example-42
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jonas’relevant: https://issues.prosody.im/1053
Guus> Guus, pep.: I've been really blind regarding the no-subject-set thing. It's actually right there, in your face, in Example 42: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#example-42
I've seen that. I think Daryl just merged my PR that adds that.
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ZashWhile we're on the topic of Openfire bugs here, what's up with sending `</stream:stream>` unencrypted at the end of TLS connections?
GuusHah
GuusI fixed that earlier this week
GuusAt least during dialback
ZashHeh, that explains why I just saw that just now.
GuusShould not happen anymore on IgniteRealtime.org, if you care to test
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ZashGotta be properly capitalized too? :)
GuusNo, that's autocorrect on my phone
Guus> Heh, that explains why I just saw that just now.
The problem has always been there, the fix is recent.
GuusIf you only saw a problem recently, then my fix made things unexpectedly worse...
XSF Discussion - 2019-09-06