XSF Discussion - 2019-09-07

If references are going to use fasten and Sims uses references am I going to fasten within the message itself?

Daniel: references will only use fasten if they are added by another entity after the original message

So if you put a SIMS into the original message, you don't fasten it.

If you add a SIMS later, it needs to be fastened to the original, and might also contain a reference of the specific text fragment

my file is already been encrypted in the file format of xmpp.jp so how to resolve it

we have send u an mail on the given by you but ur mail id is not correct so kindly send us ur proper mailid

Daniel: I will include a SIMS example

why do we need the raplace attribute in <apply-to> (from the fasten protoxep)?

To explicitly override a previous fastened thing, as opposed to having another one.

I mean I think I understand it, but it should probably be spelled out what happend if it is not there

or set to false (which I assume is the default)

Kev just wanted to get the thing in the inbox to make sure we can start discussing it. I think everyone agrees that it needs work, and this is one of those things.

Another is actually retracting fastened things, as well as retracting the original message completely.

Sure, some figures/graphs would also be great

I've heard there is a blog post in the making...

Yes, I'm working on it right now :-D

Guus: your anonymous s2s filter has failed indeed, I have a subscription request from one random account. I was just looking in the logs on the wrong machine. Will grep when I'm back at a real computer

Ge0rG: eek!

I'm interested in the details

Guus: looks like the subscription request just went out unfiltered. I sent XML logs to you privately

Ge0rG: Thanks. This is puzzling. Messages did get blocked?

Guus: yes

Puzzling. I'm unaware of another flow that leads to S2S session establishment, but there obviously is one

I'll look into this

Already establised sessions?

Guus: you also have real accounts on that domain, and those are allowed to do s2s

I worded that wrong

it's the router (which conditionally causes s2s sessions to be established, but that's besides the point)

Anon sessions shouldn't even be able to trigger the router

Guus: if the s2s session already exists, will an anon user be able to send messages thorough it?

Ge0rG obviously anon sessions hit the router. If not, we me might as well drop support for anonymous.

s2s session existence shouldn't be a factor, but obviously, I'm missing something.

Guus: I don't think there was a session to my private server before I sent the subscription

shouldn't matter, but could rule something out

I'm debugging now

Ge0rG, what was/is the latest on you approaching the german government regarding open-standards communication?

flow: no useful news yet

flow: the last status was probably logged in a Board meeting a month ago

Once more, Ge0rG improves the quality of Openfire.

I know that some of you don't think that that's difficult, but I don't see many of you do what Ge0rG does 😛

Guus: maybe it's a sign that everyone is lacking resources?

While I'm a professional pen tester, this engagement didn't require any of my special skills.. 😉

Be like Ge0rG .

Ironically, people tell me to be less like Ge0rG. Don't be like grumpy Ge0rG.

Don't be like people that are telling Ge0rG to be less like Ge0rG. Be like Ge0rG.

Guus: may I quote you on my next Council election rally?

Yes please. I want a kickback on the profit of t-shirts with this on it though

Guus, ok, I'll try to be grumpier.

THAT'S THE SPIRIT

The tagline on my website is already "grumpy pep". Should I try harder?

The Grumpy XMPP Gang

pep.: you are not nearly grumpy enough

gotcha

I think you've missed my many attempts on Debian and dynamic typing though

pep.: maybe. Did you write them in the off topic muc?

http://exple.tive.org/blarg/2019/09/06/forward-motion/

Our candidates are: Mattermost, Matrix/Riot.IM, Rocket.Chat, and Slack

This is frigging sad

wow that’s awful

When do we convert Mattermost or Rocket.Chat to XMPP?

(or Riot?)

XMPP isn't even mentioned in the "solutions we didn't pick and why"

..

XMPP implementations, that is.

Though Zulip was XMPP, no?

I don’t think so

HipChat was

Don't think anything else in that space is

Yup HipChat was XMPP, written in Twisted/Python. Had some issues and then Atlassian made a deal with Slack.

Everybody makes a deal with slack. Except Microsoft, they just sneakily force-install Teams on all windows computers.

Just like Android has non-removable Google stuff? It's pretty much the default nowadays :)

Gotta take advantage of providing a platform

Zulip isnt XMPP

k

https://twitter.com/edhelas/status/1170465450079207430

Indeed.

I wasn't that direct, https://post.lurk.org/@pep/102753556039334817 :-°

but actually, what removed XMPP from the choice was the lack of a proper "Slack like" client

Movim is approaching a bit the design but doesn't have this UX/UI that is shared among alllll those projects

Sure, what I said above. Ah wait no that was in the other room. "pep.> Our lack of bundled solution (server+web client) is probably the culprit"

possible

pep., do we really have none of that? I’m pretty sure I saw some such (commercial) offerings.

Do we?

I'd like to hear about them

(I’m pretty sure they got their suggestions off their discourse forum, whose users probably have not heard of such solutions)

> all i am going to say about that: we are looking at products that make our community more productive and resolves issues we have around communication, we are not looking at protocols. if there is an overlap, cool. if not, cool.

from a friend that is working at Mozilla

So the manifesto is just for lolz? As usual?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

edhelas, it says so there: http://exple.tive.org/blarg/2019/04/26/synchronous-text/

> We aren’t picking an outlier; whatever stack we choose needs to be a modern, proven service that seems to have a solid provenance and a good life ahead of it. We’re not moving from one idiosyncratic outlier stack to another idiosyncratic outlier stack. Does that include XMPP?

Does that include IRC?

Apparently it does

Also "service"

XMPP is not a service.

Or a product.

> mattermost inc. is very happy to provide support and long-term gurantees for their product when asked. and given by the range and amount of customers they already support, I have no reason to doubt that

I think that it's pretty clear what we're missing there

I'm not convinced "one more solution" is the solution though :(

1. Start Jabber Inc. 2.0! 2. ??? 3. Profit!

History ain't gonna repeat itself! (or wait)

it's not about Jabber or stuff like that

> Inc. -orporated

but proposing a client + server package with a "modern" (basically Slack like) client and full support behind it