XSF Discussion - 2019-09-07

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  106. Daniel

    If references are going to use fasten and Sims uses references am I going to fasten within the message itself?

  107. Ge0rG

    Daniel: references will only use fasten if they are added by another entity after the original message

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  110. Ge0rG

    So if you put a SIMS into the original message, you don't fasten it.

  111. Ge0rG

    If you add a SIMS later, it needs to be fastened to the original, and might also contain a reference of the specific text fragment

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  117. messi

    my file is already been encrypted in the file format of xmpp.jp so how to resolve it

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  119. messi

    we have send u an mail on the given by you but ur mail id is not correct so kindly send us ur proper mailid

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  123. ralphm

    Daniel: I will include a SIMS example

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  217. flow

    why do we need the raplace attribute in <apply-to> (from the fasten protoxep)?

  218. ralphm

    To explicitly override a previous fastened thing, as opposed to having another one.

  219. flow

    I mean I think I understand it, but it should probably be spelled out what happend if it is not there

  220. flow

    or set to false (which I assume is the default)

  221. ralphm

    Kev just wanted to get the thing in the inbox to make sure we can start discussing it. I think everyone agrees that it needs work, and this is one of those things.

  222. ralphm

    Another is actually retracting fastened things, as well as retracting the original message completely.

  223. flow

    Sure, some figures/graphs would also be great

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  226. Ge0rG

    I've heard there is a blog post in the making...

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  228. ralphm

    Yes, I'm working on it right now :-D

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  237. Ge0rG

    Guus: your anonymous s2s filter has failed indeed, I have a subscription request from one random account. I was just looking in the logs on the wrong machine. Will grep when I'm back at a real computer

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  239. Guus

    Ge0rG: eek!

  240. Guus

    I'm interested in the details

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  249. Ge0rG

    Guus: looks like the subscription request just went out unfiltered. I sent XML logs to you privately

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  252. Guus

    Ge0rG: Thanks. This is puzzling. Messages did get blocked?

  253. Ge0rG

    Guus: yes

  254. Guus

    Puzzling. I'm unaware of another flow that leads to S2S session establishment, but there obviously is one

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  256. Guus

    I'll look into this

  257. Zash

    Already establised sessions?

  258. Ge0rG

    Guus: you also have real accounts on that domain, and those are allowed to do s2s

  259. Guus

    I worded that wrong

  260. Guus

    it's the router (which conditionally causes s2s sessions to be established, but that's besides the point)

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  263. Ge0rG

    Anon sessions shouldn't even be able to trigger the router

  264. Ge0rG

    Guus: if the s2s session already exists, will an anon user be able to send messages thorough it?

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  267. Guus

    Ge0rG obviously anon sessions hit the router. If not, we me might as well drop support for anonymous.

  268. Guus

    s2s session existence shouldn't be a factor, but obviously, I'm missing something.

  269. Ge0rG

    Guus: I don't think there was a session to my private server before I sent the subscription

  270. Guus

    shouldn't matter, but could rule something out

  271. Guus

    I'm debugging now

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  273. flow

    Ge0rG, what was/is the latest on you approaching the german government regarding open-standards communication?

  274. Ge0rG

    flow: no useful news yet

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  277. Ge0rG

    flow: the last status was probably logged in a Board meeting a month ago

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  285. Guus

    Once more, Ge0rG improves the quality of Openfire.

  286. Guus

    I know that some of you don't think that that's difficult, but I don't see many of you do what Ge0rG does 😛

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  288. Ge0rG

    Guus: maybe it's a sign that everyone is lacking resources?

  289. Ge0rG

    While I'm a professional pen tester, this engagement didn't require any of my special skills.. 😉

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  291. Guus

    Be like Ge0rG .

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  295. Ge0rG

    Ironically, people tell me to be less like Ge0rG. Don't be like grumpy Ge0rG.

  296. Guus

    Don't be like people that are telling Ge0rG to be less like Ge0rG. Be like Ge0rG.

  297. Ge0rG

    Guus: may I quote you on my next Council election rally?

  298. Guus

    Yes please. I want a kickback on the profit of t-shirts with this on it though

  299. Zash

    Guus, ok, I'll try to be grumpier.

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  301. Guus


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  314. pep.

    The tagline on my website is already "grumpy pep". Should I try harder?

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  319. Zash

    The Grumpy XMPP Gang

  320. Ge0rG

    pep.: you are not nearly grumpy enough

  321. pep.


  322. pep.

    I think you've missed my many attempts on Debian and dynamic typing though

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  326. Ge0rG

    pep.: maybe. Did you write them in the off topic muc?

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  347. Ge0rG


  348. Ge0rG

    Our candidates are: Mattermost, Matrix/Riot.IM, Rocket.Chat, and Slack

  349. Ge0rG

    This is frigging sad

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  351. mathieui

    wow that’s awful

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  353. pep.

    When do we convert Mattermost or Rocket.Chat to XMPP?

  354. pep.

    (or Riot?)

  355. pep.

    XMPP isn't even mentioned in the "solutions we didn't pick and why"

  356. pep.


  357. pep.

    XMPP implementations, that is.

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  359. pep.

    Though Zulip was XMPP, no?

  360. mathieui

    I don’t think so

  361. Zash

    HipChat was

  362. Zash

    Don't think anything else in that space is

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  369. ralphm

    Yup HipChat was XMPP, written in Twisted/Python. Had some issues and then Atlassian made a deal with Slack.

  370. Ge0rG

    Everybody makes a deal with slack. Except Microsoft, they just sneakily force-install Teams on all windows computers.

  371. pep.

    Just like Android has non-removable Google stuff? It's pretty much the default nowadays :)

  372. pep.

    Gotta take advantage of providing a platform

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  382. Guus

    Zulip isnt XMPP

  383. pep.


  384. edhelas


  385. pep.


  386. pep.

    I wasn't that direct, https://post.lurk.org/@pep/102753556039334817 :-°

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  390. edhelas

    but actually, what removed XMPP from the choice was the lack of a proper "Slack like" client

  391. edhelas

    Movim is approaching a bit the design but doesn't have this UX/UI that is shared among alllll those projects

  392. pep.

    Sure, what I said above. Ah wait no that was in the other room. "pep.> Our lack of bundled solution (server+web client) is probably the culprit"

  393. edhelas


  394. linkmauve

    pep., do we really have none of that? I’m pretty sure I saw some such (commercial) offerings.

  395. pep.

    Do we?

  396. pep.

    I'd like to hear about them

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  399. mathieui

    (I’m pretty sure they got their suggestions off their discourse forum, whose users probably have not heard of such solutions)

  400. edhelas

    > all i am going to say about that: we are looking at products that make our community more productive and resolves issues we have around communication, we are not looking at protocols. if there is an overlap, cool. if not, cool.

  401. edhelas

    from a friend that is working at Mozilla

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  403. pep.

    So the manifesto is just for lolz? As usual?

  404. edhelas


  405. mathieui

    edhelas, it says so there: http://exple.tive.org/blarg/2019/04/26/synchronous-text/

  406. pep.

    > We aren’t picking an outlier; whatever stack we choose needs to be a modern, proven service that seems to have a solid provenance and a good life ahead of it. We’re not moving from one idiosyncratic outlier stack to another idiosyncratic outlier stack. Does that include XMPP?

  407. Zash

    Does that include IRC?

  408. pep.

    Apparently it does

  409. Zash

    Also "service"

  410. Zash

    XMPP is not a service.

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  412. Zash

    Or a product.

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  414. edhelas

    > mattermost inc. is very happy to provide support and long-term gurantees for their product when asked. and given by the range and amount of customers they already support, I have no reason to doubt that

  415. edhelas

    I think that it's pretty clear what we're missing there

  416. pep.

    I'm not convinced "one more solution" is the solution though :(

  417. Zash

    1. Start Jabber Inc. 2.0! 2. ??? 3. Profit!

  418. Zash

    History ain't gonna repeat itself! (or wait)

  419. edhelas

    it's not about Jabber or stuff like that

  420. Zash

    > Inc. -orporated

  421. edhelas

    but proposing a client + server package with a "modern" (basically Slack like) client and full support behind it

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