XSF Discussion - 2019-09-07

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  106. Daniel If references are going to use fasten and Sims uses references am I going to fasten within the message itself?
  107. Ge0rG Daniel: references will only use fasten if they are added by another entity after the original message
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  110. Ge0rG So if you put a SIMS into the original message, you don't fasten it.
  111. Ge0rG If you add a SIMS later, it needs to be fastened to the original, and might also contain a reference of the specific text fragment
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  117. messi my file is already been encrypted in the file format of xmpp.jp so how to resolve it
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  119. messi we have send u an mail on the given by you but ur mail id is not correct so kindly send us ur proper mailid
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  123. ralphm Daniel: I will include a SIMS example
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  217. flow why do we need the raplace attribute in <apply-to> (from the fasten protoxep)?
  218. ralphm To explicitly override a previous fastened thing, as opposed to having another one.
  219. flow I mean I think I understand it, but it should probably be spelled out what happend if it is not there
  220. flow or set to false (which I assume is the default)
  221. ralphm Kev just wanted to get the thing in the inbox to make sure we can start discussing it. I think everyone agrees that it needs work, and this is one of those things.
  222. ralphm Another is actually retracting fastened things, as well as retracting the original message completely.
  223. flow Sure, some figures/graphs would also be great
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  226. Ge0rG I've heard there is a blog post in the making...
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  228. ralphm Yes, I'm working on it right now :-D
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  237. Ge0rG Guus: your anonymous s2s filter has failed indeed, I have a subscription request from one random account. I was just looking in the logs on the wrong machine. Will grep when I'm back at a real computer
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  239. Guus Ge0rG: eek!
  240. Guus I'm interested in the details
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  249. Ge0rG Guus: looks like the subscription request just went out unfiltered. I sent XML logs to you privately
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  252. Guus Ge0rG: Thanks. This is puzzling. Messages did get blocked?
  253. Ge0rG Guus: yes
  254. Guus Puzzling. I'm unaware of another flow that leads to S2S session establishment, but there obviously is one
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  256. Guus I'll look into this
  257. Zash Already establised sessions?
  258. Ge0rG Guus: you also have real accounts on that domain, and those are allowed to do s2s
  259. Guus I worded that wrong
  260. Guus it's the router (which conditionally causes s2s sessions to be established, but that's besides the point)
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  263. Ge0rG Anon sessions shouldn't even be able to trigger the router
  264. Ge0rG Guus: if the s2s session already exists, will an anon user be able to send messages thorough it?
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  267. Guus Ge0rG obviously anon sessions hit the router. If not, we me might as well drop support for anonymous.
  268. Guus s2s session existence shouldn't be a factor, but obviously, I'm missing something.
  269. Ge0rG Guus: I don't think there was a session to my private server before I sent the subscription
  270. Guus shouldn't matter, but could rule something out
  271. Guus I'm debugging now
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  273. flow Ge0rG, what was/is the latest on you approaching the german government regarding open-standards communication?
  274. Ge0rG flow: no useful news yet
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  277. Ge0rG flow: the last status was probably logged in a Board meeting a month ago
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  285. Guus Once more, Ge0rG improves the quality of Openfire.
  286. Guus I know that some of you don't think that that's difficult, but I don't see many of you do what Ge0rG does 😛
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  288. Ge0rG Guus: maybe it's a sign that everyone is lacking resources?
  289. Ge0rG While I'm a professional pen tester, this engagement didn't require any of my special skills.. 😉
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  291. Guus Be like Ge0rG .
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  295. Ge0rG Ironically, people tell me to be less like Ge0rG. Don't be like grumpy Ge0rG.
  296. Guus Don't be like people that are telling Ge0rG to be less like Ge0rG. Be like Ge0rG.
  297. Ge0rG Guus: may I quote you on my next Council election rally?
  298. Guus Yes please. I want a kickback on the profit of t-shirts with this on it though
  299. Zash Guus, ok, I'll try to be grumpier.
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  314. pep. The tagline on my website is already "grumpy pep". Should I try harder?
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  319. Zash The Grumpy XMPP Gang
  320. Ge0rG pep.: you are not nearly grumpy enough
  321. pep. gotcha
  322. pep. I think you've missed my many attempts on Debian and dynamic typing though
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  326. Ge0rG pep.: maybe. Did you write them in the off topic muc?
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  347. Ge0rG http://exple.tive.org/blarg/2019/09/06/forward-motion/
  348. Ge0rG Our candidates are: Mattermost, Matrix/Riot.IM, Rocket.Chat, and Slack
  349. Ge0rG This is frigging sad
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  351. mathieui wow that’s awful
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  353. pep. When do we convert Mattermost or Rocket.Chat to XMPP?
  354. pep. (or Riot?)
  355. pep. XMPP isn't even mentioned in the "solutions we didn't pick and why"
  356. pep. ..
  357. pep. XMPP implementations, that is.
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  359. pep. Though Zulip was XMPP, no?
  360. mathieui I don’t think so
  361. Zash HipChat was
  362. Zash Don't think anything else in that space is
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  369. ralphm Yup HipChat was XMPP, written in Twisted/Python. Had some issues and then Atlassian made a deal with Slack.
  370. Ge0rG Everybody makes a deal with slack. Except Microsoft, they just sneakily force-install Teams on all windows computers.
  371. pep. Just like Android has non-removable Google stuff? It's pretty much the default nowadays :)
  372. pep. Gotta take advantage of providing a platform
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  382. Guus Zulip isnt XMPP
  383. pep. k
  384. edhelas https://twitter.com/edhelas/status/1170465450079207430
  385. pep. Indeed.
  386. pep. I wasn't that direct, https://post.lurk.org/@pep/102753556039334817 :-°
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  390. edhelas but actually, what removed XMPP from the choice was the lack of a proper "Slack like" client
  391. edhelas Movim is approaching a bit the design but doesn't have this UX/UI that is shared among alllll those projects
  392. pep. Sure, what I said above. Ah wait no that was in the other room. "pep.> Our lack of bundled solution (server+web client) is probably the culprit"
  393. edhelas possible
  394. linkmauve pep., do we really have none of that? I’m pretty sure I saw some such (commercial) offerings.
  395. pep. Do we?
  396. pep. I'd like to hear about them
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  399. mathieui (I’m pretty sure they got their suggestions off their discourse forum, whose users probably have not heard of such solutions)
  400. edhelas > all i am going to say about that: we are looking at products that make our community more productive and resolves issues we have around communication, we are not looking at protocols. if there is an overlap, cool. if not, cool.
  401. edhelas from a friend that is working at Mozilla
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  403. pep. So the manifesto is just for lolz? As usual?
  404. edhelas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  405. mathieui edhelas, it says so there: http://exple.tive.org/blarg/2019/04/26/synchronous-text/
  406. pep. > We aren’t picking an outlier; whatever stack we choose needs to be a modern, proven service that seems to have a solid provenance and a good life ahead of it. We’re not moving from one idiosyncratic outlier stack to another idiosyncratic outlier stack. Does that include XMPP?
  407. Zash Does that include IRC?
  408. pep. Apparently it does
  409. Zash Also "service"
  410. Zash XMPP is not a service.
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  412. Zash Or a product.
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  414. edhelas > mattermost inc. is very happy to provide support and long-term gurantees for their product when asked. and given by the range and amount of customers they already support, I have no reason to doubt that
  415. edhelas I think that it's pretty clear what we're missing there
  416. pep. I'm not convinced "one more solution" is the solution though :(
  417. Zash 1. Start Jabber Inc. 2.0! 2. ??? 3. Profit!
  418. Zash History ain't gonna repeat itself! (or wait)
  419. edhelas it's not about Jabber or stuff like that
  420. Zash > Inc. -orporated
  421. edhelas but proposing a client + server package with a "modern" (basically Slack like) client and full support behind it
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