XSF Discussion - 2019-09-17

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  267. jonas’

    was there some protocol which allows a MUC to announce a URL where a web chat to join it can be found?

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  270. jonas’

    or did we just agree that there should be such a thing but nobody did it yet?

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  272. Ge0rG

    jonas’: the latter

  273. Guus

    also: 'now, you touched it last.'

  274. jonas’


  275. jonas’

    Zash, you do a prosody thing for xmpp.org, I do a muclumbus thing and an update for '45, deal?

  276. jonas’

    I suggest `roominfo#web_join_url`

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  280. lovetox_

    if you update 0045 anyway you could also fix example 10

  281. lovetox_

    it cointains muc#roominfo_changesubject which is non existent

  282. Ge0rG

    I bike-shed `roominfo#webchat_url`

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  284. jonas’

    Ge0rG, wfm

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  287. Zash

    Is it implied that this would be some anonymous webchat setup?

  288. jonas’

    Zash, yes

  289. jonas’

    I think?

  290. Ge0rG

    is there a use in a non-public webhcat?

  291. Ge0rG

    is there a use in a non-public webchat?

  292. jonas’

    Ge0rG, as an alternative to firing up your client if you know your credentials... but I think that’s not useful to have on each and every MUC of a service

  293. Ge0rG

    jonas’: so it's a server config then?

  294. jonas’


  295. Ge0rG

    what if I want to have a nicer webchat on my MUC?

  296. Ge0rG

    which is custom-hosted

  297. jonas’

    I don’t care ;)

  298. jonas’

    I think that’s a different use-case anyways

  299. pep.

    I remember that was mentioned in a sprint (Düsseldorf), and then we faced member-only channels and we figured we needed something like 401 but for MUCs? And never did it

  300. Ge0rG

    typically you need some kind of web space and xmpp / BOSH / CORS magic.

  301. Zash

    Step 1: Only do it for public (not members only) non-hidden MUCs

  302. Ge0rG

    what Zash said

  303. Ge0rG

    as a server admin, I'd like to have a default webchat proto-URL where you only need to fill in the MUC name

  304. Ge0rG

    as a MUC owner, I'd like to see that / have an opt-in / override it

  305. pep.

    Ge0rG: a few services have that already, the former

  306. pep.

    Look at chat.jabbefr.org's JS for example

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  311. Ge0rG

    > chat.jabbefr.org’s server IP address could not be found.

  312. pep.

    There's a look from jabberfr.org somewhere probably

  313. pep.

    There's a link from jabberfr.org somewhere probably

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  319. pep.

    (I can point to something more specific when I get a laptop)

  320. Zash

    https://chat.jabberfr.org/converse.js/some-jid-here ?

  321. jonas’

    Ge0rG, s/jabbefr/jabberfr/

  322. Ge0rG

    tres bien

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  329. Zash

    Or we could go full generic and figure out how to link arbitrary URIs from MUC metadata

  330. Ge0rG

    Zash: roominfo#metadata_json

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  333. jonas’

    xep-0157? ;)

  334. Zash


  335. jonas’

    seriously though, how about we solve this thing at hand right away with the obvious solution?

  336. MattJ


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  339. Zash

    `hg cp mod_muc_lang.lua mod_muc_webchat_url.lua`

  340. jonas’

    MattJ, excellent. my offer stands: you do this for prosody on xmpp.org, I do it for muclumbus and an update for '45.

  341. Ge0rG

    jonas’: what is the obvious solution? A per-room manual setting? Defaulting to the server's webchat, with some kind of placeholder?

  342. MattJ

    Zash, ==> mod_muc_generic_additional_options.lua

  343. jonas’

    Ge0rG, the obvious solution is that if a server is configured with a muc log and converse, it should be published in a form field.

  344. Zash

    muc#room{config,info}_* eh?

  345. MattJ


  346. jonas’

    Ge0rG, the obvious solution is that if a server is configured with a muc log and converse and anon login, it should be published in a form field.

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  348. Ge0rG

    jonas’: on the MUC domain or on individual MUCs?

  349. Ge0rG

    on both?

  350. jonas’

    Ge0rG, on the individual MUCs

  351. Ge0rG

    jonas’: what if some MUC owners don't want that?

  352. jonas’

    Ge0rG, make it members-only?

  353. jonas’

    make it password-protected?

  354. jonas’

    apply the typical access control measures for your MUC

  355. MattJ

    Agreed, if it's open then anyone can point a web chat to you and advertise it somewhere, whether you like it or not

  356. MattJ

    so if you don't want that, it shouldn't be open (or make it hidden, and we'll default it to disabled for hidden MUCs)

  357. jonas’

    MattJ, so I think the conditions should be: anon webchat configured && open && not password protected.

  358. jonas’

    MattJ, so I think the conditions should be: anon webchat configured && open && not password protected && public?.

  359. jonas’

    MattJ, so I think the conditions should be: anon webchat configured && open && not password protected && public(?).

  360. MattJ


  361. jonas’

    MattJ, `roominfo#webchat_url`?

  362. Zash

    In the case of Prosody, the anon webchat isn't attached to the MUC component, which complicates things. Implementation detail tho.

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  364. Ge0rG

    I'm okay with a server config

  365. MattJ

    I think it's easy enough to add a config option to the MUC component to supply the web chat URL

  366. jonas’

    Zash, in that case I suggest a config option on the MUC component which is something like 'webchat_url = "https://chat.example/join?room=%s"' ;)

  367. Zash

    I'm in fact typing this out right now

  368. jonas’


  369. Daniel

    you need to a way to pass the block of an anon user in a muc through to the anon domain and block the ip

  370. Daniel

    otherwise you won’t be able to block users anymore

  371. MattJ

    We already have that

  372. Daniel


  373. jonas’


  374. jonas’

    code for muclumbus is ready for testing :)

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  377. Zash

    jonas’: %s would be the room jid or the node?

  378. jonas’

    Zash, node?

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  380. jonas’

    what node?

  381. Zash

    localpart of room JID

  382. jonas’


  383. Zash

    orrr "https://chat.example.com/join?room={node}"

  384. jonas’

    I guess that makes more sense since if your webchat needs the bare JID, it’s easier to tack a @hostname behind the %s than to try to pry the @hostname off whatever %s substitutes

  385. jonas’

    whatever works :)

  386. Ge0rG

    Zash: what if I have multiple MUC domains?

  387. jonas’

    (on the client side, I expect a perfectly working URL)

  388. jonas’

    Ge0rG, since that’s a per-componetn/domain setting ... ;)

  389. Ge0rG


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  394. Zash

    I made {jid}, {node}, {host}

  395. Ge0rG


  396. jonas’

    now for the most important question. which emoji/icon should I use in the muclumbus web interface?

  397. jonas’


  398. jonas’


  399. Zash

    With what motivation?

  400. Ge0rG

    jonas’: 💬 or 🗪

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  402. jonas’

    the former then, the latter shows as box only

  403. Ge0rG

    jonas’: your Unicode is too old.

  404. Ge0rG

    (Mine is, too)

  405. jonas’

    Ge0rG, let’s not get into that PRECISe discussion now

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  426. edhelas

    time is PRECIouSE

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  429. Ge0rG

    what kind of sauce?

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  434. Zash

    jonas’: done and deployed everywhere I have access :)

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  441. jonas’

    Zash, deployed on search.jabbercat.org \o/

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  445. Zash


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  453. Zash

    jonas’, avatars?

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  466. wurstsalat

    Zash: there is an open issue about avatars (and how to manage/whitelist them)

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  479. jonas’

    Zash, first I’ll redesign the list view (which I’m on right now), then I’ll consider how to implement whitelisted avatars for good

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  509. jonas’


  510. Zash

    jonas’: Nice.

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  512. moparisthebest

    bummer about the whitelisted avatars, some real troll potential lost there :'(

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  517. Zash

    jonas’, which one of the various non-standard muc avatar methods will you support?

  518. MattJ

    The best one

  519. Zash

    The one implemented by everyone? The one implemented by Prosody and Gajim? The one not yet invented or implemented? 🙂

  520. Zash

    s/Prosody/a 3rd party Prosody plugin/

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  528. jonas’

    Zash, I query vcard right now

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  550. jonas’


  551. jonas’

    it happened

  552. Zash


  553. jonas’

    someone should set the XMPP logo as avatar for this room

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  556. Zash

    I like that you rescale the ~200 byte Prosody SVG logo to ~1400 bytes of PNG

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  559. jonas’

    is it an SVG?

  560. jonas’

    if it was SVG, I would not parse it at all

  561. Zash

    Unless whatever I used to set it converted it to PNG at that time

  562. Zash

    ... Gajim?

  563. jonas’

    I only parse image/jpeg and image/png

  564. Zash

    Hm, PNG indeed

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  577. wurstsalat

    Wow, this looks nice :)

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  590. lovetox

    jonas the black banner looks a bit boring

  591. lovetox

    otherwise great job

  592. lovetox

    and how can i whitelist the gajim muc avatar?

  593. Zash

    How do you convert SVG to PNG even?

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  595. Zash

    The GNU Image Manipulation Program doesn't have the slightest idea what aspect ratio xmpp-logo.svg has

  596. lovetox

    Gtk can do that

  597. lovetox

    and yes Gajim does that at the moment

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  599. lovetox

    C for example has no support for svg

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  604. Zash

    `viewBox="-3277 648.6 176.5 134"` ???

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  608. jonas’

    Zash, inkscape -z --export-png=/path/to/out.png /path/to/in.png

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  610. Zash

    Would it pick up a vcard for xsf@ if one had set one?

  611. jonas’


  612. jonas’

    muc.xmpp.org is in the whitelist

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  614. Zash

    Entire domain?

  615. jonas’


  616. Zash


  617. wurstsalat

    jonas’: so gajim.org is probably on the whitelist but it fails to provide its avatar the right way?

  618. jonas’

    wurstsalat, refresh

  619. jonas’

    wurstsalat, it just took a while to re-scan the MUC

  620. moparisthebest

    ooh entire domain you say, can I create mucs here?

  621. jonas’

    moparisthebest, no

  622. Zash

    You also can't set vcards.

  623. jonas’

    off to bed now

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  627. wurstsalat

    jonas’: I do like the new layout!

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  638. Daniel

    jonas’: I'm currently getting internet server error from the api

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  660. pep.

    Newbie question: "After SASL negotiation, the parties MUST restart the stream." why is that?

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  664. Zash

    pep., iirc to be sure that any sensitive SASL data can be wiped from memory.

  665. Zash

    And so that you can offer new features.

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  667. pep.

    new features? ah, after being authenticated

  668. Zash

    post-auth only stream features

  669. fippo

    yes. it would not make sense to offer you any stream features that require authentication prior to auth ("try this! ah sorry, you need to be authenticated") so the rule of thumb is to only offer what has a chance to work

  670. Zash

    and you can't re-send stream features without a stream restart for whatever reason

  671. Zash

    this is one of the reasons dialback is awkward, since there's no stream restart involved, so you have to offer post-auth features before auth.

  672. pep.

    yeah that's what I was wondering (why not "just" send new features)

  673. Zash


  674. Zash

    resetting the parser and wiping pre-stream restart data has some value one might think

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  676. pep.

    So using a mobile client actually has some benefits. This way you can see new features your server advertizes quickly (/s)

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  678. Zash

    Now go implement SASL2 and/or BIND2 :)

  679. fippo

    "just" sending new features might break backward compat

  680. pep.

    Call it XMPP2!

  681. fippo

    (i suspect this is a mostly theoretical concern)

  682. pep.

    or 3, or 4

  683. Zash

    XMPP 99

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