XSF Discussion - 2019-10-03

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  2. vanitasvitae

    I could swear that I once saw some rendered XEP diffs. Could someone point me to a place to learn how to create those? 😀

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  24. moparisthebest

    Htmldiff or something if I recall

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  33. stpeter

    Yes, Tobias had some tooling for that. It was good.

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  170. Ge0rG

    But it broke down one day and nobody was able to restore it.

  171. Ge0rG

    I miss those days.

  172. Ge0rG

    stpeter: do you know whether Tobias still has that XEP diff tooling? It would be great to have it back online.

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  188. pep.

    edhelas: sure 172 is used

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  191. Daniel

    edhelas: yes there are some plans to start using it

  192. Daniel

    And use it as a default nickname for mucs

  193. Daniel

    Among other things

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  216. edhelas

    Daniel pep. thanks :) I'll keep it then

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  253. jonas’

    vanitasvitae, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/530 related

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  257. vanitasvitae

    Thanks, I'll see if I can get something workable.

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  279. Seve

    Hey guys, I'll be on mobile today unfortunately, may be travelling at meeting time.

  280. MattJ

    Noted, thanks :)

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  312. ralphm


  313. MattJ

    I'll be around in just a moment

  314. Guus

    I'm around now.

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  317. Seve


  318. ralphm bangs gavel

  319. ralphm

    0. Welcome + Agenda

  320. nyco


  321. ralphm

    So it seems we have a full house (in a moment)

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  323. ralphm

    Any additional items for the agenda?

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  325. MattJ

    Ok, here I am

  326. Guus

    I don't have additional items.

  327. Seve

    None for today

  328. MattJ

    None from me

  329. ralphm

    1. Minutes

  330. ralphm

    Who will take them?

  331. Seve

    nyco, do you have comments? As I see you are writing

  332. nyco

    Im' not writing :)

  333. MattJ

    I think that might be a bug, he's been typing for weeks for me

  334. Seve

    Ahh, ok haha

  335. nyco

    weeks? that's a novel! :)

  336. MattJ

    I can't wait!

  337. nyco


  338. nyco

    not sure of the qulity

  339. nyco

    ok, here it is:

  340. nyco


  341. nyco


  342. nyco

    how do you like it?

  343. ralphm pointing to the current agenda item.

  344. ralphm

    2. DOAP

  345. ralphm

    I understand there was a discussion on this topic last week, initiated by Link Mauve .

  346. Guus

    2 weeks ago

  347. ralphm

    Oh, right, I didn't check the date on the meeting notes.

  348. Guus

    we're missing last weeks minutes, so you found the 'last'.

  349. MattJ

    Uh-oh, was that me?

  350. ralphm

    So I'm not sure if it was discussed last week (no minutes), and hope somebody will still do minutes this week.

  351. Seve

    Yes, long discussion! But interesting as well

  352. MattJ

    Sorry :/

  353. Guus

    WE skipped the DOAP subject last week.

  354. Guus

    We skipped the DOAP subject last week.

  355. nyco


  356. Guus

    The short of it: I seem to stand alone in my reservations.

  357. nyco

    I'd like that we move forward and try

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  359. ralphm

    Can somebody summarize the pros and cons?

  360. MattJ

    The DOAP week we spent the whole meeting discussing DOAP, and nothing else got done, so we tried to spend last week catching up

  361. ralphm

    I asssume the goal is having a standard machine readable listing of projects?

  362. MattJ

    ralphm, that is a big goal, yes. But having machine-readable data about projects allows a bunch of interesting things besides that

  363. ralphm

    MattJ: you can repent by doing minutes this week, too.

  364. MattJ

    But nothing concrete - I think it's enough to aim for the listing

  365. MattJ

    But e.g. being able to pull up a XEP and see a list of implementations would be handy for a different audience

  366. nyco

    Link Mauve can explain

  367. MattJ

    I think Link Mauve might be away, unless I'm mistaken

  368. ralphm

    Can we do things incrementally?

  369. MattJ

    ralphm, that's basically what this PR is... very much so

  370. MattJ

    It adds some scripts to our repo that ingest the DOAP data provided by projects, and stores that info in a place that is accessible to our site generator

  371. ralphm

    So yay.

  372. MattJ

    It doesn't execute the scripts and it doesn't modify the site itself

  373. ralphm

    I assume the rest of the discussion was on what kind of data could be in the records.

  374. MattJ

    Guus had a fair few objections to the idea, I think debating those took up a chunk of the time

  375. Guus

    Let's not re-hash all of that. Please just read the minutes and the logs

  376. Guus

    Let's not use valuable meeting time retelling what we discussed in other meetings.

  377. Guus

    maybe postpone this until everyone is caught up?

  378. ralphm

    Guus: I did read that, but I am trying to see what we need to actually go forward.

  379. ralphm

    (I indeed did not read all of the log)

  380. Guus

    Other options than merge or reject the PR?

  381. MattJ

    Are there any other options?

  382. Seve

    Not for now

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  384. Seve

    But the whole process and adopting it

  385. Guus

    My concerns are summarized by two main points: a) I don't like us listing more details on the XSF website and b) If we want to do it, is DOAP the best tool (people told me last time: yes).

  386. Seve

    Which I do like

  387. MattJ

    Merging the PR is pretty much just a statement that we're willing to begin experimenting with this approach

  388. Seve

    Which I do like, to start experimenting with it

  389. MattJ

    a) is irrelevant for this PR then, because it doesn't modify what is displayed on the website

  390. ralphm

    So accepting the PR does not imply having more details, right?

  391. MattJ

    Even if we didn't add anything visually, it would at least allow some automation of what we currently display

  392. Guus

    If it's not for the benefit of our website, it shouldn't be merged in the repo for our website, surely?

  393. Seve

    I think we should decide on going for DOAP or not, before that PR, as Guus mentions it does not make sense otherwise

  394. MattJ

    Guus's objection relates to adding more data - I'm saying that DOAP is an improvement even if we never add more data than what we currently display

  395. ralphm

    So we can just say: we only do these bits of information and not others.

  396. MattJ

    (however I personally would probably be in favour of adding more data in the future)

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  399. MattJ

    Of course, yes

  400. Seve


  401. ralphm

    And then later discuss possibly expanding with new fields

  402. Guus

    We're not going to do DOAP only to replace the current listing of project name and link 🙂

  403. MattJ

    Guus, it shifts the burden of updating listings from us to project maintainers, which I think is an improvement in itself

  404. Guus

    I appreciate an attempt to easing us into DOAP, but its goal is to do a lot more than to re-implement what we have now.

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  407. MattJ

    Observation: projects are already publishing DOAP. We can choose to use it, or we can continue to maintain our site listing by hand

  408. Guus

    For just 'name' and 'website' - I understand the correctness of your argument, I'm not thinking that it's a pragmatic improvement to managing what we already have 🙂

  409. Guus

    Some project are, yes. Others are not. One thing that I touched on last time is that by using DOAP, we're raising the barrier for all projects to be included. It's yet another ..... darn, we're rehashing arguments again.

  410. Guus

    let's just vote on this.

  411. ralphm

    I think with DOAP depending on RDF, it could self-resolve to additional data at the owner's site with some predicate.

  412. ralphm


  413. ralphm

    Vote on a tabled motion to use DOAP for our software listings (PR 594)

  414. ralphm

    I'm +1

  415. Guus

    We don't need to discuss anythign to consensus before putting it to a vote, and I'll not be able to change your minds 🙂

  416. Guus

    I'm -1

  417. Seve


  418. nyco

    wait, what does thta mean?

  419. Guus

    what does what mean?

  420. ralphm

    +1 means that the PR is accepted

  421. nyco

    Vote on a tabled motion to use DOAP for our software listings (PR 594)

  422. nyco


  423. nyco

    "tabled motion"

  424. MattJ

    I'm +1 on accepting the PR

  425. MattJ

    nyco, depends where you come from :)

  426. nyco

    "merge PR" => that, I understand :)

  427. ralphm

    nyco: right that was stupidly worded

  428. nyco

    MattJ what do you mean?

  429. Guus

    I think that the verb 'to table' is confusing too. 🙂

  430. MattJ

    nyco, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure)#Difference_between_American_and_British_usage

  431. nyco

    so I motion we use just simple English, just please, like in please

  432. Guus

    nyco even in English, there's a difference here 🙂

  433. Guus

    depends on what English you use 🙂

  434. ralphm


  435. nyco


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  437. ralphm

    I see 4x+1, motion to accept PR 594 carries.

  438. ralphm

    (which means that the PR can be merged)

  439. Kev

    Guus: I think in English it means something consistently, it's in American that it gets confusing ;D

  440. ralphm

    I'm sure MattJ can make it very clear in the minutes.

  441. nyco

    and from here, it's not confusing, it means nothing

  442. ralphm

    3. AOB

  443. ralphm

    (cause yay, we discussed it for a long time again)

  444. Guus

    Kev, you mean McEnglish?

  445. Seve

    None here

  446. Guus

    no AOBs from me

  447. ralphm

    4. Date of Next

  448. ralphm


  449. ralphm

    5. Close

  450. ralphm bangs gavel

  451. MattJ

    Thanks ralphm

  452. Seve


  453. nyco

    thx all

  454. ralphm

    Oh, and thanks all, of course!

  455. ralphm

    Oh, and also: the FOSDEM devroom for RTC was accepted yay!

  456. Guus

    Ralph, did you act on some of the longer standing commitments?

  457. Guus

    might be good to engage the designer for the badges, etc

  458. ralphm

    Guus: unfortunately I've been swamped and/or exhausted by my job hunt, which has been paying off. More soon.

  459. ralphm


  460. Guus


  461. Guus


  462. Guus

    The DOAP PR makes Travis unhappy. I'm happy to merge, but I'd like someone to confirm that it doesn't need additional work.

  463. Guus


  464. ralphm

    Oh, I meant it can be merged on merit. If it has conflicts, obviously that needs to be fixed

  465. Guus

    I understand. Travis being unhappy has likely to do with Python magic that was also worked on (by others than me) recently.

  466. Guus

    So I'm not sure if the PR will simply work, even if Travis is unhappy

  467. Guus

    or maybe it needs a rebase or something

  468. nyco

    sorry, please remind me: who was following on the “recovery" of our LinkedIn account?

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  470. MattJ

    Guus, we can just make a note on the PR that Board approved, I'm sure Link Mauve can respond to any technical issues when he is back

  471. Guus

    nyco I'm not sure what you're talking about (so: not me)

  472. Guus

    MattJ I did just that.

  473. MattJ

    Thanks <3

  474. Guus

    on a completely different note: does anyone have any experience with a client named NGX-Chat?

  475. Guus

    I'm unfamiliar with it, was asked about it.

  476. MattJ

    Never heard of it

  477. Guus


  478. Guus

    Their demo doesn't seem to play well with Openfire nor EJabberd. Might be their demo though

  479. Guus

    MattJ care to test it against Prosody?

  480. Guus


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  482. Guus

    for me, that page keeps in "State: connecting (internal state: online)" with boatloads of errors on the console

  483. MattJ

    Can do, when I'm done with meetings

  484. MattJ

    I don't think I have a test account on a server that has websockets atm

  485. Guus

    oh, no worries

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  487. Guus

    just wondering against what server the client was developed in the first place.

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  535. jonas’

    can someone create repository "registry-docker-base" for me (editor hat) in https://github.com/xsf please?

  536. jonas’

    in the same vein, I need "registry" and "registry-base" repositories in https://hub.docker.com/u/xmppxsf

  537. jonas’

    they should build from github.com/xsf/registrar and github.com/xsf/registry-docker-base respectively

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  541. Zash

    Guus, it does not work with Prosody because it sends the full JID as SASL username.

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  618. jonas’

    Kev, MattJ maybe ^

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  622. jonas’

    I’d also like to request more privileges on the xeps/registrar repositories so that I can manage the description and tags and such

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  625. Kev

    Drop my Isode account a mail and I'll sort it in the morning or something.

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  634. jonas’

    done, thanks

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  697. Link Mauve

    “09:33:12 MattJ> and by logical extension there is no valid JID that ends with '/'”, err, juliet@capulet.example// is a valid JID which ends with a '/'.

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