XSF Discussion - 2019-10-03


  1. vanitasvitae

    I could swear that I once saw some rendered XEP diffs. Could someone point me to a place to learn how to create those? 😀

  2. moparisthebest

    Htmldiff or something if I recall

  3. stpeter

    Yes, Tobias had some tooling for that. It was good.

  4. Ge0rG

    But it broke down one day and nobody was able to restore it.

  5. Ge0rG

    I miss those days.

  6. Ge0rG

    stpeter: do you know whether Tobias still has that XEP diff tooling? It would be great to have it back online.

  7. pep.

    edhelas: sure 172 is used

  8. Daniel

    edhelas: yes there are some plans to start using it

  9. Daniel

    And use it as a default nickname for mucs

  10. Daniel

    Among other things

  11. pep.

    https://bouah.net/2019/10/sprint-in-the-cold-north/

  12. edhelas

    Daniel pep. thanks :) I'll keep it then

  13. jonas’

    vanitasvitae, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/530 related

  14. vanitasvitae

    Thanks, I'll see if I can get something workable.

  15. Seve

    Hey guys, I'll be on mobile today unfortunately, may be travelling at meeting time.

  16. MattJ

    Noted, thanks :)

  17. Seve

    📱

  18. ralphm

    Hello!

  19. MattJ

    I'll be around in just a moment

  20. Guus

    I'm around now.

  21. Seve

    :)

  22. ralphm bangs gavel

  23. ralphm

    0. Welcome + Agenda

  24. nyco

    -o/

  25. ralphm

    So it seems we have a full house (in a moment)

  26. ralphm

    Any additional items for the agenda?

  27. MattJ

    Ok, here I am

  28. Guus

    I don't have additional items.

  29. Seve

    None for today

  30. MattJ

    None from me

  31. ralphm

    1. Minutes

  32. ralphm

    Who will take them?

  33. Seve

    nyco, do you have comments? As I see you are writing

  34. nyco

    Im' not writing :)

  35. MattJ

    I think that might be a bug, he's been typing for weeks for me

  36. Seve

    Ahh, ok haha

  37. nyco

    weeks? that's a novel! :)

  38. MattJ

    I can't wait!

  39. nyco

    hehehe

  40. nyco

    not sure of the qulity

  41. nyco

    ok, here it is:

  42. nyco

    ""

  43. nyco

    done

  44. nyco

    how do you like it?

  45. ralphm pointing to the current agenda item.

  46. ralphm

    2. DOAP

  47. ralphm

    I understand there was a discussion on this topic last week, initiated by Link Mauve .

  48. Guus

    2 weeks ago

  49. ralphm

    Oh, right, I didn't check the date on the meeting notes.

  50. Guus

    we're missing last weeks minutes, so you found the 'last'.

  51. MattJ

    Uh-oh, was that me?

  52. ralphm

    So I'm not sure if it was discussed last week (no minutes), and hope somebody will still do minutes this week.

  53. Seve

    Yes, long discussion! But interesting as well

  54. MattJ

    Sorry :/

  55. Guus

    WE skipped the DOAP subject last week.

  56. Guus

    We skipped the DOAP subject last week.

  57. nyco

    yep

  58. Guus

    The short of it: I seem to stand alone in my reservations.

  59. nyco

    I'd like that we move forward and try

  60. ralphm

    Can somebody summarize the pros and cons?

  61. MattJ

    The DOAP week we spent the whole meeting discussing DOAP, and nothing else got done, so we tried to spend last week catching up

  62. ralphm

    I asssume the goal is having a standard machine readable listing of projects?

  63. MattJ

    ralphm, that is a big goal, yes. But having machine-readable data about projects allows a bunch of interesting things besides that

  64. ralphm

    MattJ: you can repent by doing minutes this week, too.

  65. MattJ

    But nothing concrete - I think it's enough to aim for the listing

  66. MattJ

    But e.g. being able to pull up a XEP and see a list of implementations would be handy for a different audience

  67. nyco

    Link Mauve can explain

  68. MattJ

    I think Link Mauve might be away, unless I'm mistaken

  69. ralphm

    Can we do things incrementally?

  70. MattJ

    ralphm, that's basically what this PR is... very much so

  71. MattJ

    It adds some scripts to our repo that ingest the DOAP data provided by projects, and stores that info in a place that is accessible to our site generator

  72. ralphm

    So yay.

  73. MattJ

    It doesn't execute the scripts and it doesn't modify the site itself

  74. ralphm

    I assume the rest of the discussion was on what kind of data could be in the records.

  75. MattJ

    Guus had a fair few objections to the idea, I think debating those took up a chunk of the time

  76. Guus

    Let's not re-hash all of that. Please just read the minutes and the logs

  77. Guus

    Let's not use valuable meeting time retelling what we discussed in other meetings.

  78. Guus

    maybe postpone this until everyone is caught up?

  79. ralphm

    Guus: I did read that, but I am trying to see what we need to actually go forward.

  80. ralphm

    (I indeed did not read all of the log)

  81. Guus

    Other options than merge or reject the PR?

  82. MattJ

    Are there any other options?

  83. Seve

    Not for now

  84. Seve

    But the whole process and adopting it

  85. Guus

    My concerns are summarized by two main points: a) I don't like us listing more details on the XSF website and b) If we want to do it, is DOAP the best tool (people told me last time: yes).

  86. Seve

    Which I do like

  87. MattJ

    Merging the PR is pretty much just a statement that we're willing to begin experimenting with this approach

  88. Seve

    Which I do like, to start experimenting with it

  89. MattJ

    a) is irrelevant for this PR then, because it doesn't modify what is displayed on the website

  90. ralphm

    So accepting the PR does not imply having more details, right?

  91. MattJ

    Even if we didn't add anything visually, it would at least allow some automation of what we currently display

  92. Guus

    If it's not for the benefit of our website, it shouldn't be merged in the repo for our website, surely?

  93. Seve

    I think we should decide on going for DOAP or not, before that PR, as Guus mentions it does not make sense otherwise

  94. MattJ

    Guus's objection relates to adding more data - I'm saying that DOAP is an improvement even if we never add more data than what we currently display

  95. ralphm

    So we can just say: we only do these bits of information and not others.

  96. MattJ

    (however I personally would probably be in favour of adding more data in the future)

  97. MattJ

    Of course, yes

  98. Seve

    Yes

  99. ralphm

    And then later discuss possibly expanding with new fields

  100. Guus

    We're not going to do DOAP only to replace the current listing of project name and link 🙂

  101. MattJ

    Guus, it shifts the burden of updating listings from us to project maintainers, which I think is an improvement in itself

  102. Guus

    I appreciate an attempt to easing us into DOAP, but its goal is to do a lot more than to re-implement what we have now.

  103. MattJ

    Observation: projects are already publishing DOAP. We can choose to use it, or we can continue to maintain our site listing by hand

  104. Guus

    For just 'name' and 'website' - I understand the correctness of your argument, I'm not thinking that it's a pragmatic improvement to managing what we already have 🙂

  105. Guus

    Some project are, yes. Others are not. One thing that I touched on last time is that by using DOAP, we're raising the barrier for all projects to be included. It's yet another ..... darn, we're rehashing arguments again.

  106. Guus

    let's just vote on this.

  107. ralphm

    I think with DOAP depending on RDF, it could self-resolve to additional data at the owner's site with some predicate.

  108. ralphm

    Ok

  109. ralphm

    Vote on a tabled motion to use DOAP for our software listings (PR 594)

  110. ralphm

    I'm +1

  111. Guus

    We don't need to discuss anythign to consensus before putting it to a vote, and I'll not be able to change your minds 🙂

  112. Guus

    I'm -1

  113. Seve

    +1

  114. nyco

    wait, what does thta mean?

  115. Guus

    what does what mean?

  116. ralphm

    +1 means that the PR is accepted

  117. nyco

    Vote on a tabled motion to use DOAP for our software listings (PR 594)

  118. nyco

    +1

  119. nyco

    "tabled motion"

  120. MattJ

    I'm +1 on accepting the PR

  121. MattJ

    nyco, depends where you come from :)

  122. nyco

    "merge PR" => that, I understand :)

  123. ralphm

    nyco: right that was stupidly worded

  124. nyco

    MattJ what do you mean?

  125. Guus

    I think that the verb 'to table' is confusing too. 🙂

  126. MattJ

    nyco, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure)#Difference_between_American_and_British_usage

  127. nyco

    so I motion we use just simple English, just please, like in please

  128. Guus

    nyco even in English, there's a difference here 🙂

  129. Guus

    depends on what English you use 🙂

  130. ralphm

    anyway

  131. nyco

    simple

  132. ralphm

    I see 4x+1, motion to accept PR 594 carries.

  133. ralphm

    (which means that the PR can be merged)

  134. Kev

    Guus: I think in English it means something consistently, it's in American that it gets confusing ;D

  135. ralphm

    I'm sure MattJ can make it very clear in the minutes.

  136. nyco

    and from here, it's not confusing, it means nothing

  137. ralphm

    3. AOB

  138. ralphm

    (cause yay, we discussed it for a long time again)

  139. Guus

    Kev, you mean McEnglish?

  140. Seve

    None here

  141. Guus

    no AOBs from me

  142. ralphm

    4. Date of Next

  143. ralphm

    +1W

  144. ralphm

    5. Close

  145. ralphm bangs gavel

  146. MattJ

    Thanks ralphm

  147. Seve

    Greeeeeat

  148. nyco

    thx all

  149. ralphm

    Oh, and thanks all, of course!

  150. ralphm

    Oh, and also: the FOSDEM devroom for RTC was accepted yay!

  151. Guus

    Ralph, did you act on some of the longer standing commitments?

  152. Guus

    might be good to engage the designer for the badges, etc

  153. ralphm

    Guus: unfortunately I've been swamped and/or exhausted by my job hunt, which has been paying off. More soon.

  154. ralphm

    Indeed.

  155. Guus

    Congrats!

  156. Guus

    (provisionally)

  157. Guus

    The DOAP PR makes Travis unhappy. I'm happy to merge, but I'd like someone to confirm that it doesn't need additional work.

  158. Guus

    https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594

  159. ralphm

    Oh, I meant it can be merged on merit. If it has conflicts, obviously that needs to be fixed

  160. Guus

    I understand. Travis being unhappy has likely to do with Python magic that was also worked on (by others than me) recently.

  161. Guus

    So I'm not sure if the PR will simply work, even if Travis is unhappy

  162. Guus

    or maybe it needs a rebase or something

  163. nyco

    sorry, please remind me: who was following on the “recovery" of our LinkedIn account?

  164. MattJ

    Guus, we can just make a note on the PR that Board approved, I'm sure Link Mauve can respond to any technical issues when he is back

  165. Guus

    nyco I'm not sure what you're talking about (so: not me)

  166. Guus

    MattJ I did just that.

  167. MattJ

    Thanks <3

  168. Guus

    on a completely different note: does anyone have any experience with a client named NGX-Chat?

  169. Guus

    I'm unfamiliar with it, was asked about it.

  170. MattJ

    Never heard of it

  171. Guus

    https://www.npmjs.com/package/@pazznetwork/ngx-chat

  172. Guus

    Their demo doesn't seem to play well with Openfire nor EJabberd. Might be their demo though

  173. Guus

    MattJ care to test it against Prosody?

  174. Guus

    https://pazznetwork.github.io/ngx-chat-ghpages/

  175. Guus

    for me, that page keeps in "State: connecting (internal state: online)" with boatloads of errors on the console

  176. MattJ

    Can do, when I'm done with meetings

  177. MattJ

    I don't think I have a test account on a server that has websockets atm

  178. Guus

    oh, no worries

  179. Guus

    just wondering against what server the client was developed in the first place.

  180. jonas’

    can someone create repository "registry-docker-base" for me (editor hat) in https://github.com/xsf please?

  181. jonas’

    in the same vein, I need "registry" and "registry-base" repositories in https://hub.docker.com/u/xmppxsf

  182. jonas’

    they should build from github.com/xsf/registrar and github.com/xsf/registry-docker-base respectively

  183. Zash

    Guus, it does not work with Prosody because it sends the full JID as SASL username.

  184. jonas’

    Kev, MattJ maybe ^

  185. jonas’

    I’d also like to request more privileges on the xeps/registrar repositories so that I can manage the description and tags and such

  186. Kev

    Drop my Isode account a mail and I'll sort it in the morning or something.

  187. jonas’

    done, thanks

  188. Link Mauve

    “09:33:12 MattJ> and by logical extension there is no valid JID that ends with '/'”, err, juliet@capulet.example// is a valid JID which ends with a '/'.