XSF Discussion - 2019-10-16

  1. Daniel has joined

  2. mukt2 has left

  3. Chobbes has left

  4. Chobbes has joined

  5. Daniel has left

  6. Daniel has joined

  7. j.r has left

  8. j.r has joined

  9. adiaholic has joined

  10. UsL has left

  11. UsL has joined

  12. adiaholic has left

  13. pdurbin has joined

  14. murabito has joined

  15. gav has left

  16. Daniel has left

  17. waqas has joined

  18. !XSF_Martin has left

  19. !XSF_Martin has joined

  20. pdurbin has left

  21. Daniel has joined

  22. mukt2 has joined

  23. neshtaxmpp has left

  24. neshtaxmpp has joined

  25. Chobbes has left

  26. pdurbin has joined

  27. j.r has left

  28. j.r has joined

  29. mukt2 has left

  30. adiaholic has joined

  31. Daniel has left

  32. mukt2 has joined

  33. lskdjf has left

  34. waqas has left

  35. Daniel has joined

  36. waqas has joined

  37. waqas has left

  38. mukt2 has left

  39. !XSF_Martin has left

  40. andy has joined

  41. !XSF_Martin has joined

  42. adiaholic has left

  43. adiaholic has joined

  44. Yagiza has joined

  45. mukt2 has joined

  46. mukt2 has left

  47. Daniel has left

  48. xalek has left

  49. Daniel has joined

  50. chronosx88 has joined

  51. Tobias has joined

  52. !XSF_Martin has left

  53. Daniel has left

  54. !XSF_Martin has joined

  55. adiaholic has left

  56. Nekit has joined

  57. j.r has left

  58. j.r has joined

  59. j.r has left

  60. Daniel has joined

  61. rion has left

  62. j.r has joined

  63. rion has joined

  64. j.r has left

  65. Daniel has left

  66. !XSF_Martin has left

  67. !XSF_Martin has joined

  68. Daniel has joined

  69. j.r has joined

  70. Daniel has left

  71. j.r has left

  72. j.r has joined

  73. rion has left

  74. rion has joined

  75. !XSF_Martin has left

  76. Daniel has joined

  77. adiaholic has joined

  78. mukt2 has joined

  79. wurstsalat has joined

  80. j.r has left

  81. UsL has left

  82. UsL has joined

  83. !XSF_Martin has joined

  84. matkor has left

  85. mukt2 has left

  86. matkor has joined

  87. adiaholic has left

  88. LNJ has joined

  89. alameyo has left

  90. alameyo has joined

  91. mimi89999 has left

  92. j.r has joined

  93. adiaholic has joined

  94. karoshi has joined

  95. arc has joined

  96. !XSF_Martin has left

  97. adiaholic has left

  98. j.r has left

  99. !XSF_Martin has joined

  100. Mikaela has joined

  101. goffi has joined

  102. jubalh has joined

  103. j.r has joined

  104. arc has left

  105. UsL has left

  106. j.r has left

  107. !XSF_Martin has left

  108. karoshi has left

  109. karoshi has joined

  110. rion has left

  111. rion has joined

  112. Steve Kille has left

  113. adiaholic has joined

  114. j.r has joined

  115. Steve Kille has joined

  116. COM8 has joined

  117. adiaholic has left

  118. Steve Kille has left

  119. Steve Kille has joined

  120. j.r has left

  121. adiaholic has joined

  122. COM8 has left

  123. COM8 has joined

  124. COM8 has left

  125. edhelas has left

  126. emus has joined

  127. edhelas has joined

  128. j.r has joined

  129. Ge0rG

    pep., jonas’: it looks like the build process still hasn't finished.

  130. Zash


  131. mimi89999 has joined

  132. mukt2 has joined

  133. j.r has left

  134. Shell has left

  135. Shell has joined

  136. Shell has left

  137. Shell has joined

  138. j.r has joined

  139. mukt2 has left

  140. Shell has left

  141. Ge0rG

    > Yeah no I guess it wasn't on purpose and nobody noticed Like most messages being of type=normal, because it's the default, and nobody noticed.

  142. adiaholic has left

  143. j.r has left

  144. pdurbin has left

  145. j.r has joined

  146. Dele (Mobile) has joined

  147. debacle has joined

  148. adiaholic has joined

  149. adiaholic has left

  150. Shell has joined

  151. j.r has left

  152. j.r has joined

  153. j.r has left

  154. j.r has joined

  155. larma has left

  156. Zash has left

  157. larma has joined

  158. Zash has joined

  159. andrey.g has left

  160. nyco-2 has joined

  161. nyco-2 has left

  162. jonas’

    Ge0rG, I don’t have credentials with me and won’t be able to kick the job before 13:00Z

  163. Ge0rG

    jonas’: thanks

  164. andrey.g has joined

  165. mukt2 has joined

  166. mukt2 has left

  167. rion has left

  168. rion has joined

  169. COM8 has joined

  170. COM8 has left

  171. j.r has left

  172. j.r has joined

  173. chronosx88 has left

  174. !XSF_Martin has joined

  175. j.r has left

  176. j.r has joined

  177. pdurbin has joined

  178. chronosx88 has joined

  179. pdurbin has left

  180. lskdjf has joined

  181. !XSF_Martin has left

  182. pdurbin has joined

  183. debacle has left

  184. wurstsalat has left

  185. pdurbin has left

  186. !XSF_Martin has joined

  187. murabito has left

  188. murabito has joined

  189. emus has left

  190. wurstsalat has joined

  191. emus has joined

  192. !XSF_Martin has left

  193. Ge0rG

    xmpp.net is also down - 504 Gateway Timeout

  194. j.r has left

  195. edhelas has left

  196. edhelas has joined

  197. j.r has joined

  198. alameyo has left

  199. alameyo has joined

  200. murabito has left

  201. murabito has joined

  202. !XSF_Martin has joined

  203. j.r has left

  204. j.r has joined

  205. !XSF_Martin has left

  206. APach has left

  207. Chobbes has joined

  208. COM8 has joined

  209. COM8 has left

  210. COM8 has joined

  211. murabito has left

  212. murabito has joined

  213. COM8 has left

  214. COM8 has joined

  215. !XSF_Martin has joined

  216. COM8 has left

  217. pdurbin has joined

  218. matlag has left

  219. adiaholic has joined

  220. pdurbin has left

  221. APach has joined

  222. adiaholic has left

  223. adiaholic has joined

  224. j.r has left

  225. Chobbes has left

  226. Chobbes has joined

  227. Chobbes has left

  228. APach has left

  229. j.r has joined

  230. adiaholic has left

  231. jonas’

    docker cloud still throws 500 at me

  232. jonas’

    I’ll build locally and try to push it from here

  233. APach has joined

  234. j.r has left

  235. jonas’

    ok, apparently I’m able and allowed to push

  236. jonas’

    so I’m doing that now, lets see if that helps

  237. jonas’


  238. jonas’

    ping me if something breaks

  239. jonas’

    it’ll take about 5min to arrive on the server, if that still works

  240. Chobbes has joined

  241. !XSF_Martin has left

  242. jonas’

    seems to have updated and be working

  243. !XSF_Martin has joined

  244. COM8 has joined

  245. j.r has joined

  246. Ge0rG

    jonas’: 👍

  247. jubalh has left

  248. UsL has joined

  249. j.r has left

  250. adiaholic has joined

  251. COM8 has left

  252. COM8 has joined

  253. adiaholic has left

  254. adiaholic has joined

  255. adiaholic has left

  256. adiaholic has joined

  257. j.r has joined

  258. Zash has left

  259. jubalh has joined

  260. COM8 has left

  261. Zash has joined

  262. COM8 has joined

  263. !XSF_Martin has left

  264. Holger has left

  265. Holger has joined

  266. COM8 has left

  267. COM8 has joined

  268. COM8 has left

  269. COM8 has joined

  270. pdurbin has joined

  271. !XSF_Martin has joined

  272. COM8 has left

  273. COM8 has joined

  274. COM8 has left

  275. COM8 has joined

  276. COM8 has left

  277. COM8 has joined

  278. pdurbin has left

  279. COM8 has left

  280. COM8 has joined

  281. adiaholic has left

  282. COM8 has left

  283. COM8 has joined

  284. COM8 has left

  285. COM8 has joined

  286. COM8 has left

  287. COM8 has joined

  288. jubalh has left

  289. COM8 has left

  290. COM8 has joined

  291. mimi89999 has left

  292. mimi89999 has joined

  293. j.r has left

  294. COM8 has left

  295. adiaholic has joined

  296. !XSF_Martin has left

  297. matlag has joined

  298. adiaholic has left

  299. !XSF_Martin has joined

  300. j.r has joined

  301. APach has left

  302. adiaholic has joined

  303. APach has joined

  304. Maranda has left

  305. Maranda has joined

  306. j.r has left

  307. mukt2 has joined

  308. Daniel has left

  309. adiaholic has left

  310. Daniel has joined

  311. adiaholic has joined

  312. mukt2 has left

  313. jonas’

    lskdjf, please see https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/845 (pre-rendered here: https://sotecware.net/files/xeps/xep-0392.html )

  314. jonas’

    does this remove all restrictions you want to see gone?

  315. patrick has joined

  316. !XSF_Martin has left

  317. jabberjocke has joined

  318. j.r has joined

  319. Nekit has left

  320. Nekit has joined

  321. Chobbes has left

  322. !XSF_Martin has joined

  323. jabberjocke has left

  324. Chobbes has joined

  325. jabberjocke has joined

  326. chronosx88 has left

  327. jonas’

    lskdjf, also, https://github.com/modernxmpp/modernxmpp/pull/24

  328. dele has joined

  329. chronosx88 has joined

  330. j.r has left

  331. dele has left

  332. ralphm has left

  333. !XSF_Martin has left

  334. j.r has joined

  335. emus has left

  336. !XSF_Martin has joined

  337. lovetox has joined

  338. Steve Kille has left

  339. Steve Kille has joined

  340. pdurbin has joined

  341. larma

    jonas’, notes/ideas: - link to §7.2 in §5.3 is broken - get rid of "Implementations SHOULD allow the user to turn off any colorization completely."? - define how to generate secondary/additional color/hue if implementations require more than one color (e.g. use the second/third/... 16 bits in §5.1 algorithm) - add reference to WCAG in §7.2 - make XEP Informational (not sure how/if this would be possible)

  342. adiaholic has left

  343. aj has left

  344. Zash

    Use of mystical Editor powers like `sed` maybe?

  345. Zash goes to read XEP-0001

  346. alameyo has left

  347. alameyo has joined

  348. pdurbin has left

  349. Zash

    > If the proposal is accepted as a XEP, the XMPP Extensions Editor shall do the following: > * specify an appropriate type

  350. pep.

    Zash: I think formally it would have to be resubmitted to a different track

  351. pep.

    We might need board to bypass all that?

  352. Zash

    I think it just needs to be resubmitted, and The Editor can change the type

  353. pep.

    You mean with it staying ”0392”?

  354. Zash

    Nah, redoing this would be a new number

  355. pep.

    OK so we're saying the same thing

  356. stpeter has joined

  357. Zash

    > The XMPP Council may, at its discretion, decide to convert an Historical XEP into a Standards Track XEP if [...] So there's a tiny bit of precedent for changing type.

  358. lskdjf

    jonas’, yes indeed, that's much better now! Thanks for the edits 🙂

  359. lskdjf

    Only thing is I agree with larma about "Implementations SHOULD allow the user to turn off any colorization completely." - I also don't allow the user to turn off button hover effects or that nicks are written in bold text. To my (limited!) knowledge about color vision deficits this should be fine, but especially when allowing to select correction having colors shouldn't be any problem.

  360. moparisthebest

    SHOULD isn't a MUST, you MAY just ignore it

  361. jonas’

    lskdjf, this is about a different accessibility thing, which has to do with distraction, IIRC

  362. jonas’

    and yeah, also that I’m certain that there will be facets of CVDs which simply can’t be accounted for, or interactions between CVDs and contrast ratios which make things weird/tricky

  363. Ge0rG

    Shouldn't that be an OS level thing, like done on iOS? I have a family member with color blindness and an iPhone, and you can't imagine how happy they were when I showed that setting

  364. jonas’

    Ge0rG, it should, but until we have that ....

  365. Douglas Terabyte has left

  366. jonas’

    (also, if an app prepares for that by doing the right thing right away, it may degrade a bit nicer? I don’t know)

  367. Ge0rG

    Where are all the accessibility gnomes?

  368. jonas’


  369. lskdjf

    Ge0rG, what does iOS do? Correct the colors? Or disable them?

  370. patrick has left

  371. Zash

    jonas’, if the OS fiddles with the color space in the same way that the algorithm does, it might get done twice and I don't think that'll look nice

  372. jonas’

    Zash, true

  373. Ge0rG

    lskdjf: it has a set of different color filters that you can choose from, globally for all apps

  374. Ge0rG

    This is most important for display of photos and video

  375. Ge0rG

    http://www.iphonehacks.com/2016/09/enable-screen-filters-help-color-blindness-ios-10.html has screenshots

  376. Zash

    Tho if the OS has that, it should probably provide some API that lets the app know it doesn't have to deal with it, or something.

  377. j.r has left

  378. stpeter has left

  379. jonas’

    "Am I running on iOS?" -> Don’t have to deal with it, apparently

  380. moparisthebest

    android also has a color blind setting

  381. moparisthebest


  382. moparisthebest

    called "Color correction" you even get to pick the type of colorblindness you have, that's a screenshot from my phone

  383. !XSF_Martin has left

  384. Mikaela has left

  385. Mikaela has joined

  386. !XSF_Martin has joined

  387. Chobbes has left

  388. adiaholic has joined

  389. jubalh has joined

  390. larma

    Color correction will *not* fix everything for you, it will certainly help, especially if it's "only" an anomaly instead of full blindness, but it is still way better to handle it at application level if possible

  391. emus has joined

  392. Chobbes has joined

  393. adiaholic has left

  394. emus has left

  395. mukt2 has joined

  396. !XSF_Martin has left

  397. adiaholic has joined

  398. Dele (Mobile) has left

  399. !XSF_Martin has joined

  400. Nekit has left

  401. adiaholic has left

  402. moparisthebest

    unless like Zash said that is made worse by OS-level Color Correction

  403. emus has joined

  404. andrey.g has left

  405. Yagiza has left

  406. goffi has left

  407. Chobbes has left

  408. Wojtek has left

  409. Chobbes has joined

  410. Wojtek has joined

  411. Chobbes has left

  412. Chobbes has joined

  413. Douglas Terabyte has joined

  414. mukt2 has left

  415. !XSF_Martin has left

  416. pdurbin has joined

  417. debacle has joined

  418. pdurbin has left

  419. Nekit has joined

  420. !XSF_Martin has joined

  421. adiaholic has joined

  422. adiaholic has left

  423. jubalh has left

  424. Nekit has left

  425. jubalh has joined

  426. pep.


  427. fippo

    cisco jabber?

  428. fippo

    I thought cisco had killed that one :-)

  429. nyco has left

  430. edhelas has left

  431. Zash

    Where did you get Cisco from?

  432. fippo

    zash: I have a very vivid memory of the towel dispensers in the bathroom at the cisco office during the ... 2013 summit

  433. Daniel has left

  434. fippo

    which advertised cisco jabber video as THE BEST THING EVER

  435. Daniel has joined

  436. debacle has left

  437. Daniel has left

  438. xalek has joined

  439. !XSF_Martin has left

  440. Daniel has joined

  441. jubalh has left

  442. andrey.g has joined

  443. !XSF_Martin has joined

  444. edhelas has joined

  445. debacle has joined

  446. Menel87 has joined

  447. stpeter has joined

  448. Menel87 has left

  449. Menel87 has joined

  450. Mikaela has left

  451. !XSF_Martin has left

  452. stpeter has left

  453. !XSF_Martin has joined

  454. Menel87 has left

  455. Menel87 has joined

  456. Menel87 has left

  457. Tobias has left

  458. matkor has left

  459. matkor has joined

  460. mukt2 has joined

  461. UsL has left

  462. neshtaxmpp has left

  463. neshtaxmpp has joined

  464. mukt2 has left

  465. pdurbin has joined

  466. pdurbin has left

  467. ralphm has joined

  468. Daniel has left

  469. Daniel has joined

  470. Kev

    I'm inside your network.

  471. !XSF_Martin has left

  472. !XSF_Martin has joined

  473. Chobbes has left

  474. lovetox has left

  475. Daniel has left

  476. goffi has joined

  477. Daniel has joined

  478. goffi has left

  479. !XSF_Martin has left

  480. emus has left

  481. !XSF_Martin has joined

  482. eevvoor has joined

  483. LNJ has left

  484. matlag has left

  485. matkor has left

  486. chronosx88 has left

  487. wurstsalat has left

  488. matkor has joined

  489. chronosx88 has joined

  490. mukt2 has joined

  491. !XSF_Martin has left

  492. eevvoor has left

  493. mukt2 has left

  494. eevvoor has joined

  495. !XSF_Martin has joined

  496. eevvoor has left

  497. eevvoor has joined

  498. pdurbin has joined

  499. pdurbin has left

  500. !XSF_Martin has left

  501. stpeter has joined

  502. eevvoor has left

  503. !XSF_Martin has joined

  504. debacle has left

  505. !XSF_Martin has left

  506. UsL has joined

  507. andy has left

  508. mtavares has left

  509. Daniel has left

  510. karoshi has left

  511. !XSF_Martin has joined

  512. Chobbes has joined

  513. matlag has joined

  514. Chobbes has left

  515. Daniel has joined

  516. neshtaxmpp has left

  517. neshtaxmpp has joined