XSF Discussion - 2019-10-17

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  107. Ge0rG

    Hey, looks like two XEPs were born last night

  108. emus

    which one?

  109. pep.

    Message moderation and Message retraction

  110. emus

    something for the newsletter?

  111. pep.

    Still needs editor work, they're in the inbox for now

  112. pep.


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  136. flow

    pubsub/pep experts: Is it normal that I receive a notification twice on publication: http://paste.debian.net/1107636/ ?

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  145. MattJ

    No, I don't think so

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  187. nyco

    are we gonna reach the quorum today?

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  190. nyco


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  192. nyco

    anyway, a contact just pointed me to: https://www.libremonde.org a fork of Matrix protocol

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  198. edhelas

    we should fork Matrix and move it to XML into TCP sockets

  199. nyco

    oh sh*t, good idea!

  200. nyco

    wait, what?

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  258. Seve

    nyco, we didn't have a meeting today :) It was set to +2W

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  263. Zash

    A *fork*? Ooookay

  264. Zash

    edhelas, only if we drop the whole idea of being a graph database synchronization protocol, simple message passing should be enough for every need.

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  266. Zash

    Re Stickers, I'm reminded that https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0038.xml is a thing that exists

  267. Seve

    "the recent trend of using graphics" - that's funny

  268. Zash

    MattJ: I thought `@bob.xmpp.org` was just a fixed string that served no purpose whatsoever.

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  273. MattJ

    uh, maybe you're right

  274. MattJ

    That does indeed seem a bit limiting, that you can't refer to data held by another entity

  275. Zash

    And based on scanning the examples in the RFC that defines cid: it's just a namespace

  276. Zash

    Better switch to ni://

  277. Zash

    aka https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6920

  278. Zash

    MattJ: Also, it'd be kinda bad to leak your JID to xmpp:bob.xmpp.org or whatever you put as authority there.

  279. MattJ

    Choose: A) leak JID to sender-chosen XMPP entity B) leak IP address to sender-chosen HTTP server

  280. MattJ

    Also deployment of a BoB proxy should be far easier than deployment of a (secure) HTTP proxy alongside every XMPP server

  281. Zash

    C) Steal Matrix thing where every server downloads and re-hosts every uploaded file?

  282. Zash

    Or D) Provide a proxy that knows how to handle some magic new URL by proxying to the original HTTP Upload service.

  283. Zash

    E) Declare that XMPP is for text chat, y'all gtfo with your graphics. Also let's go back to ASCII. 😛

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  285. lovetox

    why not just promote available packs via pubsub

  286. lovetox

    also update of packs via pubsub

  287. lovetox

    and clients can download the packs and use them from their server

  288. lovetox

    servers should look by itself that they support the most common ones

  289. lovetox

    and just communicate the hashes to other users

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  291. Zash

    BoB over PubSub?

  292. Zash

    Actually, just BoB + extensive caching is probably good enough.

  293. Zash

    Let me tell y'all about Link Mauves mod_bob

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  312. Ge0rG

    Zash: you forgot F) Implement a content addressable URI scheme

  313. Ge0rG

    Also a DHT and a torrent based distribution system.

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  330. lovetox

    Zash i think BoB does not cut it

  331. lovetox

    yes it can transfer a sticker

  332. lovetox

    but realisticly you want sticker packs

  333. lovetox

    distributet by the server

  334. lovetox

    you can use bob to transfer the hash

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  336. lovetox

    so maybe this could be its own XEP the distribution of the sticker packs

  337. Zash

    xep-0038 but modern?

  338. lovetox

    yeah on pubsub, so server can notify clients if there are updates or new packs

  339. lovetox

    then we use bob or something to reference the hash

  340. Ge0rG

    What do we need sticker packs for if we can have 0392 colored Emoji?

  341. lovetox

    and if its not found you can query the server for the the hash if he has a pack for that

  342. Zash

    Tho that doesn't solve all the privacy issues.

  343. lovetox

    yeah what issue do you see?

  344. lovetox

    i only communicate with my server

  345. Ge0rG

    lovetox: you just invented copyright violation

  346. Zash

    How do I get to see the stickers?

  347. Zash

    Can I do that without talking to your server, which then learns my JID?

  348. Zash

    Assuming MUC or somesuch

  349. lovetox

    Zash, either your server has a pack for that or you dont

  350. lovetox

    yes, servers should sync packs themself

  351. lovetox

    if your server just has no pack for that hash, you just cant display it

  352. lovetox

    end of story

  353. lovetox

    Ge0rG, nobody forces a server admin to distrubte packs that they are not allowed to

  354. Ge0rG

    lovetox: so people switch to the server where the admin bought the most sticker packs?

  355. lovetox

    maybe, if thats important to them

  356. lovetox

    hey im just brainstorm here, im even to lazy to use a emoji, far away from using a sticker

  357. Ge0rG

    That's the same incentive system as running a tor exit node

  358. Ge0rG

    You don't need stickers if you just render Emoji large enough

  359. Ge0rG


  360. pep.

    It seems I'm missing out on the stickers thread..

  361. lovetox

    stickers exist because people dont want to be limited by the unicode consortium

  362. Ge0rG


  363. lovetox

    i agree you could probably get away with that for some time

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  365. lovetox

    but at the end someone wants to introduce their own stickers

  366. lovetox

    and then you have to tell them, not possible

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  369. Ge0rG

    I tell them: purpose to the unicode consortium!

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  371. Zash

    lovetox, if you separate the distribution into its own thing (wasn't there a xep for file sharing already?) then this sounds a lot like xep-0038, ie a standardized zip file layout with icons/stickers in it

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  374. lovetox

    Zash this does only describe the pack format

  375. lovetox

    i dont see anything about distribution

  376. lovetox

    and also its ancient, not sure what we gain from reusing this

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  378. Zash

    ancient doesn't have to mean bad (or good) but it doesn't hurt to make sure one at least triest to learn from previous attempts

  379. Zash

    and not having distribution is precisly why I wrote "if you separate the distribution into its own thing", ie it's not there, it needs to come from elsewhere or be invented

  380. Zash


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  382. lovetox

    yeah but not needed

  383. lovetox

    just publish a http link on pubusub

  384. lovetox

    10 times easier than that

  385. lovetox

    and i doubt servers will implement jingle for this

  386. Zash

    I though 329 was something in pubsub, but it seems not.

  387. Zash

    OOB or SIMS in PubSub or something like that

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