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Ge0rG
07:03:53
Hey, looks like two XEPs were born last night
emus
07:04:53
which one?
pep.
07:05:20
Message moderation and Message retraction
emus
07:06:27
something for the newsletter?
pep.
07:06:32
Still needs editor work, they're in the inbox for now
pep.
07:06:35
Sure
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flow
10:06:48
pubsub/pep experts: Is it normal that I receive a notification twice on publication: http://paste.debian.net/1107636/ ?
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MattJ
10:43:26
No, I don't think so
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nyco
13:26:22
are we gonna reach the quorum today?
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nyco
13:30:52
anyone?
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nyco
13:32:11
anyway, a contact just pointed me to: https://www.libremonde.org a fork of Matrix protocol
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we should fork Matrix and move it to XML into TCP sockets
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oh sh*t, good idea!
nyco
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wait, what?
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Seve
15:44:54
nyco, we didn't have a meeting today :) It was set to +2W
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Zash
15:49:04
A *fork*? Ooookay
Zash
15:50:00
edhelas, only if we drop the whole idea of being a graph database synchronization protocol, simple message passing should be enough for every need.
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Zash
15:55:00
Re Stickers, I'm reminded that https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0038.xml is a thing that exists
Seve
15:57:05
"the recent trend of using graphics" - that's funny
Zash
15:57:51
MattJ: I thought `@bob.xmpp.org` was just a fixed string that served no purpose whatsoever.
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MattJ
16:09:51
uh, maybe you're right
MattJ
16:11:24
That does indeed seem a bit limiting, that you can't refer to data held by another entity
Zash
16:12:47
And based on scanning the examples in the RFC that defines cid: it's just a namespace
Zash
16:13:07
Better switch to ni://
Zash
16:13:43
aka https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6920
Zash
16:14:52
MattJ: Also, it'd be kinda bad to leak your JID to xmpp:bob.xmpp.org or whatever you put as authority there.
MattJ
16:15:48
Choose: A) leak JID to sender-chosen XMPP entity B) leak IP address to sender-chosen HTTP server
MattJ
16:16:35
Also deployment of a BoB proxy should be far easier than deployment of a (secure) HTTP proxy alongside every XMPP server
Zash
16:16:46
C) Steal Matrix thing where every server downloads and re-hosts every uploaded file?
Zash
16:18:21
Or D) Provide a proxy that knows how to handle some magic new URL by proxying to the original HTTP Upload service.
Zash
16:19:06
E) Declare that XMPP is for text chat, y'all gtfo with your graphics. Also let's go back to ASCII. 😛
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lovetox
16:30:50
why not just promote available packs via pubsub
lovetox
16:30:56
also update of packs via pubsub
lovetox
16:31:09
and clients can download the packs and use them from their server
lovetox
16:31:21
servers should look by itself that they support the most common ones
lovetox
16:34:00
and just communicate the hashes to other users
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Zash
16:41:25
BoB over PubSub?
Zash
16:42:06
Actually, just BoB + extensive caching is probably good enough.
Zash
16:42:42
Let me tell y'all about Link Mauves mod_bob
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Ge0rG
18:15:39
Zash: you forgot F) Implement a content addressable URI scheme
Ge0rG
18:16:07
Also a DHT and a torrent based distribution system.
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lovetox
19:11:30
Zash i think BoB does not cut it
lovetox
19:11:39
yes it can transfer a sticker
lovetox
19:12:17
but realisticly you want sticker packs
lovetox
19:12:29
distributet by the server
lovetox
19:12:55
you can use bob to transfer the hash
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lovetox
19:18:39
so maybe this could be its own XEP the distribution of the sticker packs
Zash
19:19:02
xep-0038 but modern?
lovetox
19:19:35
yeah on pubsub, so server can notify clients if there are updates or new packs
lovetox
19:19:56
then we use bob or something to reference the hash
Ge0rG
19:20:03
What do we need sticker packs for if we can have 0392 colored Emoji?
lovetox
19:20:13
and if its not found you can query the server for the the hash if he has a pack for that
Zash
19:20:40
Tho that doesn't solve all the privacy issues.
lovetox
19:20:57
yeah what issue do you see?
lovetox
19:21:02
i only communicate with my server
Ge0rG
19:21:10
lovetox: you just invented copyright violation
Zash
19:21:12
How do I get to see the stickers?
Zash
19:21:27
Can I do that without talking to your server, which then learns my JID?
Zash
19:21:37
Assuming MUC or somesuch
lovetox
19:21:38
Zash, either your server has a pack for that or you dont
lovetox
19:22:00
yes, servers should sync packs themself
lovetox
19:22:10
if your server just has no pack for that hash, you just cant display it
lovetox
19:22:13
end of story
lovetox
19:23:00
Ge0rG, nobody forces a server admin to distrubte packs that they are not allowed to
Ge0rG
19:23:58
lovetox: so people switch to the server where the admin bought the most sticker packs?
lovetox
19:24:13
maybe, if thats important to them
lovetox
19:25:04
hey im just brainstorm here, im even to lazy to use a emoji, far away from using a sticker
Ge0rG
19:25:23
That's the same incentive system as running a tor exit node
Ge0rG
19:26:35
You don't need stickers if you just render Emoji large enough
Ge0rG
19:26:44
😜
pep.
19:27:37
It seems I'm missing out on the stickers thread..
lovetox
19:27:43
stickers exist because people dont want to be limited by the unicode consortium
Ge0rG
19:27:58
https://upload.yax.im/upload/SSCgX4FLWhltBl0q/tempFileForShare_20191017-212752.jpg
lovetox
19:28:30
i agree you could probably get away with that for some time
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lovetox
19:28:42
but at the end someone wants to introduce their own stickers
lovetox
19:28:50
and then you have to tell them, not possible
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Ge0rG
19:31:12
I tell them: purpose to the unicode consortium!
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Zash
19:31:27
lovetox, if you separate the distribution into its own thing (wasn't there a xep for file sharing already?) then this sounds a lot like xep-0038, ie a standardized zip file layout with icons/stickers in it
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lovetox
19:37:18
Zash this does only describe the pack format
lovetox
19:37:25
i dont see anything about distribution
lovetox
19:37:40
and also its ancient, not sure what we gain from reusing this
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Zash
19:39:48
ancient doesn't have to mean bad (or good) but it doesn't hurt to make sure one at least triest to learn from previous attempts
Zash
19:41:16
and not having distribution is precisly why I wrote "if you separate the distribution into its own thing", ie it's not there, it needs to come from elsewhere or be invented
Zash
19:49:19
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0329.xml
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lovetox
19:51:28
yeah but not needed
lovetox
19:51:36
just publish a http link on pubusub
lovetox
19:51:45
10 times easier than that
lovetox
19:51:55
and i doubt servers will implement jingle for this
Zash
19:52:19
I though 329 was something in pubsub, but it seems not.
Zash
19:52:58
OOB or SIMS in PubSub or something like that
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