XSF Discussion - 2019-10-17

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  107. Ge0rG Hey, looks like two XEPs were born last night
  108. emus which one?
  109. pep. Message moderation and Message retraction
  110. emus something for the newsletter?
  111. pep. Still needs editor work, they're in the inbox for now
  112. pep. Sure
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  136. flow pubsub/pep experts: Is it normal that I receive a notification twice on publication: http://paste.debian.net/1107636/ ?
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  145. MattJ No, I don't think so
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  187. nyco are we gonna reach the quorum today?
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  190. nyco anyone?
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  192. nyco anyway, a contact just pointed me to: https://www.libremonde.org a fork of Matrix protocol
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  198. edhelas we should fork Matrix and move it to XML into TCP sockets
  199. nyco oh sh*t, good idea!
  200. nyco wait, what?
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  258. Seve nyco, we didn't have a meeting today :) It was set to +2W
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  263. Zash A *fork*? Ooookay
  264. Zash edhelas, only if we drop the whole idea of being a graph database synchronization protocol, simple message passing should be enough for every need.
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  266. Zash Re Stickers, I'm reminded that https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0038.xml is a thing that exists
  267. Seve "the recent trend of using graphics" - that's funny
  268. Zash MattJ: I thought `@bob.xmpp.org` was just a fixed string that served no purpose whatsoever.
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  273. MattJ uh, maybe you're right
  274. MattJ That does indeed seem a bit limiting, that you can't refer to data held by another entity
  275. Zash And based on scanning the examples in the RFC that defines cid: it's just a namespace
  276. Zash Better switch to ni://
  277. Zash aka https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6920
  278. Zash MattJ: Also, it'd be kinda bad to leak your JID to xmpp:bob.xmpp.org or whatever you put as authority there.
  279. MattJ Choose: A) leak JID to sender-chosen XMPP entity B) leak IP address to sender-chosen HTTP server
  280. MattJ Also deployment of a BoB proxy should be far easier than deployment of a (secure) HTTP proxy alongside every XMPP server
  281. Zash C) Steal Matrix thing where every server downloads and re-hosts every uploaded file?
  282. Zash Or D) Provide a proxy that knows how to handle some magic new URL by proxying to the original HTTP Upload service.
  283. Zash E) Declare that XMPP is for text chat, y'all gtfo with your graphics. Also let's go back to ASCII. 😛
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  285. lovetox why not just promote available packs via pubsub
  286. lovetox also update of packs via pubsub
  287. lovetox and clients can download the packs and use them from their server
  288. lovetox servers should look by itself that they support the most common ones
  289. lovetox and just communicate the hashes to other users
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  291. Zash BoB over PubSub?
  292. Zash Actually, just BoB + extensive caching is probably good enough.
  293. Zash Let me tell y'all about Link Mauves mod_bob
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  312. Ge0rG Zash: you forgot F) Implement a content addressable URI scheme
  313. Ge0rG Also a DHT and a torrent based distribution system.
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  330. lovetox Zash i think BoB does not cut it
  331. lovetox yes it can transfer a sticker
  332. lovetox but realisticly you want sticker packs
  333. lovetox distributet by the server
  334. lovetox you can use bob to transfer the hash
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  336. lovetox so maybe this could be its own XEP the distribution of the sticker packs
  337. Zash xep-0038 but modern?
  338. lovetox yeah on pubsub, so server can notify clients if there are updates or new packs
  339. lovetox then we use bob or something to reference the hash
  340. Ge0rG What do we need sticker packs for if we can have 0392 colored Emoji?
  341. lovetox and if its not found you can query the server for the the hash if he has a pack for that
  342. Zash Tho that doesn't solve all the privacy issues.
  343. lovetox yeah what issue do you see?
  344. lovetox i only communicate with my server
  345. Ge0rG lovetox: you just invented copyright violation
  346. Zash How do I get to see the stickers?
  347. Zash Can I do that without talking to your server, which then learns my JID?
  348. Zash Assuming MUC or somesuch
  349. lovetox Zash, either your server has a pack for that or you dont
  350. lovetox yes, servers should sync packs themself
  351. lovetox if your server just has no pack for that hash, you just cant display it
  352. lovetox end of story
  353. lovetox Ge0rG, nobody forces a server admin to distrubte packs that they are not allowed to
  354. Ge0rG lovetox: so people switch to the server where the admin bought the most sticker packs?
  355. lovetox maybe, if thats important to them
  356. lovetox hey im just brainstorm here, im even to lazy to use a emoji, far away from using a sticker
  357. Ge0rG That's the same incentive system as running a tor exit node
  358. Ge0rG You don't need stickers if you just render Emoji large enough
  359. Ge0rG 😜
  360. pep. It seems I'm missing out on the stickers thread..
  361. lovetox stickers exist because people dont want to be limited by the unicode consortium
  362. Ge0rG https://upload.yax.im/upload/SSCgX4FLWhltBl0q/tempFileForShare_20191017-212752.jpg
  363. lovetox i agree you could probably get away with that for some time
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  365. lovetox but at the end someone wants to introduce their own stickers
  366. lovetox and then you have to tell them, not possible
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  369. Ge0rG I tell them: purpose to the unicode consortium!
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  371. Zash lovetox, if you separate the distribution into its own thing (wasn't there a xep for file sharing already?) then this sounds a lot like xep-0038, ie a standardized zip file layout with icons/stickers in it
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  374. lovetox Zash this does only describe the pack format
  375. lovetox i dont see anything about distribution
  376. lovetox and also its ancient, not sure what we gain from reusing this
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  378. Zash ancient doesn't have to mean bad (or good) but it doesn't hurt to make sure one at least triest to learn from previous attempts
  379. Zash and not having distribution is precisly why I wrote "if you separate the distribution into its own thing", ie it's not there, it needs to come from elsewhere or be invented
  380. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0329.xml
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  382. lovetox yeah but not needed
  383. lovetox just publish a http link on pubusub
  384. lovetox 10 times easier than that
  385. lovetox and i doubt servers will implement jingle for this
  386. Zash I though 329 was something in pubsub, but it seems not.
  387. Zash OOB or SIMS in PubSub or something like that
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