XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2019-10-19


  1. mukt2 has left
  2. wurstsalat has left
  3. wurstsalat has joined
  4. pdurbin has joined
  5. arc has left
  6. arc has joined
  7. LNJ has joined
  8. mimi89999 has left
  9. j.r has left
  10. pdurbin has left
  11. mimi89999 has joined
  12. jabberjocke has joined
  13. Daniel has left
  14. neshtaxmpp has left
  15. neshtaxmpp has joined
  16. debacle has left
  17. Daniel has joined
  18. karoshi has left
  19. Daniel has left
  20. neshtaxmpp has left
  21. j.r has joined
  22. adiaholic has left
  23. adiaholic has joined
  24. adiaholic has left
  25. adiaholic has joined
  26. neshtaxmpp has joined
  27. j.r has left
  28. Daniel has joined
  29. matkor has left
  30. matkor has joined
  31. Douglas Terabyte has left
  32. j.r has joined
  33. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  34. Daniel has left
  35. waqas has joined
  36. adiaholic has left
  37. adiaholic has joined
  38. mukt2 has joined
  39. Daniel has joined
  40. j.r has left
  41. neshtaxmpp has left
  42. neshtaxmpp has joined
  43. mukt2 has left
  44. pdurbin has joined
  45. j.r has joined
  46. mimi89999 has left
  47. mimi89999 has joined
  48. pdurbin has left
  49. Daniel has left
  50. patrick has left
  51. j.r has left
  52. Daniel has joined
  53. Douglas Terabyte has left
  54. j.r has joined
  55. david has left
  56. david has joined
  57. moparisthebest has left
  58. xalek has left
  59. Yagiza has joined
  60. moparisthebest has joined
  61. moparisthebest has left
  62. moparisthebest has joined
  63. Daniel has left
  64. mukt2 has joined
  65. Daniel has joined
  66. mukt2 has left
  67. mukt2 has joined
  68. adiaholic has left
  69. adiaholic has joined
  70. j.r has left
  71. j.r has joined
  72. mukt2 has left
  73. mukt2 has joined
  74. pdurbin has joined
  75. jubalh has joined
  76. jubalh has left
  77. mukt2 has left
  78. mukt2 has joined
  79. jubalh has joined
  80. pdurbin has left
  81. krauq has left
  82. krauq has joined
  83. adiaholic has left
  84. adiaholic has joined
  85. j.r has left
  86. mukt2 has left
  87. mukt2 has joined
  88. j.r has joined
  89. wurstsalat has left
  90. mukt2 has left
  91. mukt2 has joined
  92. xobrunnetteamyxx37 has joined
  93. j.r has left
  94. xobrunnetteamyxx37 has left
  95. j.r has joined
  96. lovetox has joined
  97. j.r has left
  98. adiaholic has left
  99. LNJ has left
  100. Tobias has joined
  101. LNJ has joined
  102. andy has joined
  103. j.r has joined
  104. waqas has left
  105. adiaholic has joined
  106. waqas has joined
  107. waqas has left
  108. pdurbin has joined
  109. arc has left
  110. arc has joined
  111. arc has left
  112. arc has joined
  113. arc has left
  114. arc has joined
  115. adiaholic has left
  116. jubalh has left
  117. pdurbin has left
  118. mukt2 has left
  119. mukt2 has joined
  120. Nekit has joined
  121. j.r has left
  122. jubalh has joined
  123. j.r has joined
  124. mukt2 has left
  125. !XSF_Martin has left
  126. mukt2 has joined
  127. mukt2 has left
  128. mukt2 has joined
  129. jubalh has left
  130. LNJ has left
  131. !XSF_Martin has joined
  132. arc has left
  133. arc has joined
  134. Mikaela has joined
  135. goffi has joined
  136. larma has left
  137. larma has joined
  138. goffi has left
  139. mukt2 has left
  140. mukt2 has joined
  141. jubalh has joined
  142. adiaholic has joined
  143. adiaholic has left
  144. arc has left
  145. arc has joined
  146. arc has left
  147. arc has joined
  148. arc has left
  149. arc has joined
  150. debacle has joined
  151. goffi has joined
  152. arc has left
  153. arc has joined
  154. mukt2 has left
  155. mukt2 has joined
  156. jubalh has left
  157. LNJ has joined
  158. jabberjocke has left
  159. j.r has left
  160. karoshi has joined
  161. adiaholic has joined
  162. mukt2 has left
  163. mukt2 has joined
  164. jabberjocke has joined
  165. goffi has left
  166. jabberjocke has left
  167. Daniel has left
  168. Nekit has left
  169. Daniel has joined
  170. Daniel has left
  171. pdurbin has joined
  172. Zash has joined
  173. !XSF_Martin has left
  174. !XSF_Martin has joined
  175. j.r has joined
  176. eevvoor has joined
  177. mukt2 has left
  178. mukt2 has joined
  179. Daniel has joined
  180. pdurbin has left
  181. eevvoor has left
  182. eevvoor has joined
  183. emus has joined
  184. pdurbin has joined
  185. mukt2 has left
  186. xelxebar has joined
  187. mukt2 has joined
  188. xelxebar has left
  189. Daniel question to the people who are longer involved with the XSF then I am; why are XEPs (usually) created by individuals instead of working groups?
  190. xelxebar has joined
  191. Daniel i mean some (few) XEPs are written by more than one person; but we don’t seem to have the tradition of working groups like the ietf has
  192. fippo most successful IETF work starts from individual drafts too
  193. fippo the closest the XSF has to a WG is a SIG and we haven't really had them for a while
  194. marc_ has joined
  195. eevvoor has left
  196. Daniel i have a vague feeling (without knowing a lot about how the IETF works) that working groups could be more focused (regular meetings) and also more "democratic" as it would be a group of multiple people who have to have a rough consensus on the spec instead of just one author who has ultimate say in how things are written down (and then council basically just being able to say yes or no when it moves on)
  197. eevvoor has joined
  198. Daniel but i might might be wrong. i just noticed that the xsf process mirrors a lot of the itef process; except that part
  199. Daniel and i'm wondering if there was a reason for that
  200. debacle has left
  201. flow IETF working groups also usually have (more or less) a single person who tries to determine the consensus and writes it down in the I-D. That job is not easy, at least sometimes, just look at the OpenPGP WG and 4880bis. It is also what I would expect from a XEP author, but as you mentioned, I also have the feeling that this is not how it currently works in XSF
  202. mukt2 has left
  203. flow When I worked on OX (XEP-0373, -0374), I set up a public monthly meeting and announced it. There was also a git where public could send patches to, which got regulary build so that everybody could view the current state of the ProtoXEP
  204. flow I wonder if we should do the same with message fastening
  205. mukt2 has joined
  206. eevvoor has left
  207. jabberjocke has joined
  208. debacle has joined
  209. UsL has joined
  210. !XSF_Martin has left
  211. !XSF_Martin has joined
  212. Link Mauve “18:16:46 Zash> C) Steal Matrix thing where every server downloads and re-hosts every uploaded file?”, that’s prosody-modules’s mod_bob.
  213. Link Mauve I’m still not sure how much of that is a good idea.
  214. Link Mauve Ah, you mentioned it afterwards.
  215. mathijs has left
  216. mathijs has joined
  217. Zash Link Mauve: It being in-band is limiting
  218. Zash Fine for stickers I imagine tho
  219. Link Mauve Yes.
  220. Link Mauve For a further iteration of bob, we might want to hook into 0261/0047 at least, to support more than one stanza.
  221. mukt2 has left
  222. mukt2 has joined
  223. j.r has left
  224. j.r has joined
  225. pdurbin has left
  226. j.r has left
  227. j.r has joined
  228. Zash has left
  229. wurstsalat has joined
  230. Zash has joined
  231. !XSF_Martin has left
  232. !XSF_Martin has joined
  233. mathijs has left
  234. mathijs has joined
  235. Link Mauve “12:06:48 flow> pubsub/pep experts: Is it normal that I receive a notification twice on publication: http://paste.debian.net/1107636/ ?”, I have experienced a similar bug with Ejabberd when I have multiple resources subscribed to a PEP node, Holger told me it’s a known bug.
  236. pep. Daniel, flow: I think that's something we could improve yes. I don't especially like that only one person ultimately has a say and don't accept your change because they haven't had coffee yet, or more realistically because they have their own agenda and don't care about the rest
  237. adiaholic has left
  238. mukt2 has left
  239. mukt2 has joined
  240. UsL has left
  241. adiaholic has joined
  242. mukt2 has left
  243. mukt2 has joined
  244. Kev One thing to note is that the authors don't 'own' the XEPs, the XSF does. So the authors don't hold a XEP hostage.
  245. Shell has left
  246. pep. Yes technically the council could "take over", but I'm not sure how well that would be accepted socially
  247. mukt2 has left
  248. pep. I haven't seen this happen during my short time being involved, apart for clearly abandonned XEPs, and then it was really "can we really do this?"
  249. adiaholic has left
  250. mukt2 has joined
  251. arc has left
  252. arc has joined
  253. !XSF_Martin has left
  254. !XSF_Martin has joined
  255. arc has left
  256. arc has joined
  257. mukt2 has left
  258. mukt2 has joined
  259. mukt2 has left
  260. j.r has left
  261. mukt2 has joined
  262. j.r has joined
  263. jubalh has joined
  264. mathijs has left
  265. mathijs has joined
  266. Nekit has joined
  267. mathijs has left
  268. mathijs has joined
  269. pdurbin has joined
  270. jmpman has joined
  271. mathijs has left
  272. mathijs has joined
  273. mukt2 has left
  274. mukt2 has joined
  275. jubalh has left
  276. arc has left
  277. arc has joined
  278. adiaholic has joined
  279. pdurbin has left
  280. adiaholic has left
  281. arc has left
  282. arc has joined
  283. mathijs has left
  284. mathijs has joined
  285. MattJ The counter to this is that it's also good to have one person ultimately responsible for getting the doc done and resolving any disputes
  286. jonas’ I see my role as a XEP author mainly as proxy between the community and the editor, once it has been accepted.
  287. jonas’ I see my role as a XEP author mainly as proxy between the community and the editor, once it has been accepted as Experimental.
  288. jonas’ This means however that I select which voices from the community I listen to though
  289. andy has left
  290. debacle has left
  291. jmpman has left
  292. jmpman has joined
  293. mukt2 has left
  294. mukt2 has joined
  295. mukt2 has left
  296. led If the council votes, do they give any kind of feedback about why the have took their position?
  297. jonas’ led, when veto-ing, a council member is obliged to give a rationale
  298. jonas’ those should be included in the council minutes
  299. jonas’ and they are also included in the voting summaries Tedd Sterr sends
  300. led Ok that's good then.
  301. jonas’ and of course you can always ask
  302. jonas’ we’re not like the City Council, we don’t devour citizens.
  303. goffi has joined
  304. mukt2 has joined
  305. jubalh has joined
  306. Half-Shot has left
  307. flow MattJ, the counter to what exactly?
  308. mukt2 has left
  309. mukt2 has joined
  310. j.r has left
  311. jmpman has left
  312. jmpman has joined
  313. winfried has left
  314. winfried has joined
  315. arc has left
  316. arc has joined
  317. arc has left
  318. arc has joined
  319. flow As far as I understood it, nobody disputes that there should, and maybe even has to be, one person chairing the process. I just think we can do better…
  320. j.r has joined
  321. ralphm has left
  322. ralphm has joined
  323. arc has left
  324. arc has joined
  325. adiaholic has joined
  326. pdurbin has joined
  327. winfried has left
  328. winfried has joined
  329. adiaholic has left
  330. winfried has left
  331. winfried has joined
  332. jmpman has left
  333. andy has joined
  334. pdurbin has left
  335. rion has left
  336. rion has joined
  337. matlag has joined
  338. jubalh has left
  339. Nekit has left
  340. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  341. jubalh has joined
  342. aj has left
  343. Ge0rG We hardly have enough persons to just write down what they think is best, never mind to have a democratic XEP design process
  344. moparisthebest has left
  345. moparisthebest has joined
  346. arc has left
  347. arc has joined
  348. Half-Shot has joined
  349. mukt2 has left
  350. mukt2 has joined
  351. UsL has joined
  352. arc has left
  353. arc has joined
  354. !XSF_Martin has left
  355. mathijs has left
  356. mathijs has joined
  357. mukt2 has left
  358. marc_ has left
  359. marc_ has joined
  360. !XSF_Martin has joined
  361. arc has left
  362. arc has joined
  363. debacle has joined
  364. UsL has left
  365. pdurbin has joined
  366. pdurbin has left
  367. arc has left
  368. arc has joined
  369. pep. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0002.html what does it mean to be a SIG leader
  370. Zash pep.: Like a chair I guess?
  371. pep. so...?
  372. pep. XEP-0001 defines "Approving body Chair", well it doesn't. It only defines what a chair should do
  373. pep. "The precise rules for polls, including meetings and timeouts, are determined by the Chair of the Approving Body."
  374. Zash pep.: I was looking for https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0019.html
  375. pep. ta
  376. adiaholic has joined
  377. pep. So what, does that prevents anybody from creating SIGs anymore?
  378. pep. Do we need a XEP to revert this change
  379. pep. Do we need a XEP to revert this change?
  380. Daniel > pep.: I was looking for https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0019.html That is a good read. That kinda explains my earlier question
  381. Zash So, nothing prevents you from forming your own, as '19 says, small ad-hoc group to work on a proposal.
  382. pep. Sure that people can already do.. it's just to be transparent and stuff
  383. pep. Also https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0381.html
  384. pep. And it's still proposed, orz..
  385. adiaholic has left
  386. pep. "The Last Call ends on 2017-03-14"
  387. arc has left
  388. arc has joined
  389. Zash Heh
  390. Zash xeps$ grep status.Proposed xep-????.xml xep-0292.xml: <status>Proposed</status> xep-0300.xml: <status>Proposed</status> xep-0345.xml: <status>Proposed</status> xep-0353.xml: <status>Proposed</status> xep-0363.xml: <status>Proposed</status> xep-0381.xml: <status>Proposed</status>
  391. arc has left
  392. arc has joined
  393. xalek has joined
  394. !XSF_Martin 345 got an extra blank?
  395. Zash Indentation moves in mysterious ways.
  396. andy has left
  397. arc has left
  398. arc has joined
  399. mimi89999 has left
  400. andy has joined
  401. mimi89999 has joined
  402. mathijs has left
  403. mathijs has joined
  404. mathijs has left
  405. mathijs has joined
  406. mimi89999 has left
  407. mathijs has left
  408. mathijs has joined
  409. mathijs has left
  410. mathijs has joined
  411. mimi89999 has joined
  412. waqas has joined
  413. Daniel has left
  414. waqas has left
  415. waqas has joined
  416. mukt2 has joined
  417. Yagiza has left
  418. arc has left
  419. arc has joined
  420. pdurbin has joined
  421. pdurbin has left
  422. mathijs has left
  423. mathijs has joined
  424. mathijs has left
  425. mathijs has joined
  426. mathijs has left
  427. mathijs has joined
  428. mathijs has left
  429. mathijs has joined
  430. DebXWoody Groups can also be build based on components. .e.g. security, mobile, processes, performance,... maybe a kind of XEP Security Group which are working on security,... Just an idea. But it is important that there is one person, which is taking care about the activities with a group.
  431. mathijs has left
  432. mathijs has joined
  433. mathijs has left
  434. mathijs has joined
  435. lskdjf has left
  436. niemand has left
  437. larma has left
  438. adiaholic has joined
  439. jabberjocke has left
  440. mathijs has left
  441. mathijs has joined
  442. mathijs has left
  443. mathijs has joined
  444. mukt2 has left
  445. Daniel has joined
  446. mathijs has left
  447. mathijs has joined
  448. j.r has left
  449. Daniel has left
  450. adiaholic has left
  451. adiaholic has joined
  452. LNJ has left
  453. LNJ has joined
  454. chronosx88 has joined
  455. chronosx88 has left
  456. neshtaxmpp has left
  457. UsL has joined
  458. j.r has joined
  459. xalek has left
  460. Daniel has joined
  461. neshtaxmpp has joined
  462. UsL has left
  463. LNJ has left
  464. neshtaxmpp has left
  465. waqas has left
  466. waqas has joined
  467. pdurbin has joined
  468. pdurbin has left
  469. jubalh has left
  470. Shell has joined
  471. mukt2 has joined
  472. jubalh has joined
  473. moparisthebest has left
  474. waqas has left
  475. mukt2 has left
  476. jabberjocke has joined
  477. arc has left
  478. arc has joined
  479. arc has left
  480. arc has joined
  481. pep. <xs:enumeration value='Organizational'/> < apparently there's no type Procedural.
  482. pep. Good thing schemas are not normatives..
  483. Zash Ops
  484. Zash Heheh
  485. pep. That's really sad
  486. arc has left
  487. arc has joined
  488. arc has left
  489. arc has joined
  490. arc has left
  491. arc has joined
  492. andy has left
  493. pep. https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/846 here.
  494. pep. Technically schemas are not normative, that's editor land.
  495. pep. Oh, and revision block.
  496. lovetox has left
  497. arc has left
  498. arc has joined
  499. arc has left
  500. rion has left
  501. arc has joined
  502. rion has joined
  503. winfried has left
  504. winfried has joined
  505. marc_ has left
  506. marc_ has joined
  507. winfried has left
  508. winfried has joined
  509. Mikaela has left
  510. jubalh has left
  511. UsL has joined
  512. pdurbin has joined
  513. Tobias has left
  514. marc_ has left
  515. pdurbin has left
  516. led has left
  517. led has joined
  518. led has left
  519. mukt2 has joined
  520. led has joined
  521. mukt2 has left
  522. neshtaxmpp has joined
  523. goffi has left
  524. andrey.g has left
  525. emus has left
  526. emus has joined
  527. LNJ has joined
  528. arc has left
  529. arc has joined
  530. moparisthebest has joined
  531. andrey.g has joined
  532. aj has joined
  533. UsL has left
  534. UsL has joined
  535. LNJ has left
  536. mukt2 has joined
  537. matlag has left
  538. mukt2 has left