pep.Can somebody from board add an item in the trello board (doesn't seem like I'm able to?) "Who is webteam. How to get in"
Ge0rGwhat's webteam?
pep.I heard rumours of a team handling xsf/xmpp.org. That's what I'm told when I want to push things there, unless jonas or guus merge my stuff because they have rights for $reasons
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ZashNot the same as commteam?
ZashSo many teams
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pep.Apparently not, otherwise nyco would have rights to push and he didn't, for the last newsletter
jonas’I’m also in no team except editor and for some reason I got +w on the repo
jonas’it might’ve been an instance of "at the right place at the right time"
SeveI don't think there's a strict rule about this, right now. Don't you have access as well, pep.?
pep.Seve, I don't. I don't especially want them, I just want to clarify the situation, know who I can ask etc.
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ralphmThere are several GitHub teams associated with the xmpp.org repo, including one called 'Web' and one called 'XMPP Comms Team'. nyco is in the latter and should have write access with that.
ralphmIf not, you can take this up with iteam (e.g. Kev), and I don't think has to be discussed in a Board meeting.
ralphmpep.: ^
KevBut not e.g. Kev, please. e.g. MattJ :)
MattJwfm
pep."how to get in" doesn't have to be discussed in a board meeting?
MattJI think some clarification is possibly needed, that doesn't necessarily mean a board meeting is needed
ralphmnot really, everyone in comms should have access
pep.So comms is the "web" team?
ralphmand if not, MattJ can set you up.
pep.(that is, the one with access to xsf/xmpp.org?)
ralphmThere are additional people in the "web" team, which are not necessarily in the comms team.
pep.Why?
pep.And who. I can't see it from here
ralphmBecause e.g. Guus might want to write on the website as a Board member.
pep.Fair enough, but this is not explained anywhere
pep.That's what I'm asking for
ralphmhttps://github.com/orgs/xsf/teams should have an overview, but I don't know who can see that.
pep.I only see board and editors
MattJThe teams are marked as "secret" for some reason
ralphmOut for lunch now, sorry
MattJThere may be a good reason for that, Github's auth/permissions can be frustrating, but I don't know
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GuusThere really hasn't been any process to add people to the GitHub webteam, other than be invited by existing members. To the best of my knowledge, there is no intentional overlap with XSF workteams and the GitHub webteam.
pep.MattJ, If possible, I'd ask for this to be changed to public
MattJI can't say I didn't see that coming :)
KevI'm trying to remember if I know what the reason is.
GuusIf anything, the github webteam can probably be clean up.
MattJI can imagine one possible explanation being that people don't necessarily want team associations showing up on their Github profiles
pep.This makes the whole thing very opaque though
GuusMaybe clean up, ask the remaining team for concerns, and make (not) public based on their feedback?
pep.Nobody knows who can push
pep.Or why they got commit rights in the first place
Kevpep.: I think a clear list of who is (apart from iteam) allowed to push content to the website would be sensible.
pep.sure
KevI don't think that making the github teams public is necessarily the way to do that.
pep.It's the best way to keep both lists in sync
pep.But ok
KevI also think that it doesn't matter, to some extent, as long as PRs are getting reviewed often enough. When contributing to most projects one doesn't try to find out who has commit access, they just send in PRs.
GuusHaving commteam members gain privileges to do reviewing of the public website does make sense to me.
pep.We have work teams though, I didn't get editor rights until I got in there, and I wouldn't have expected to get them if I hadn't been accepted in the team
KevGuus: They have, no?
Guusthe way how XEPs are managed is a lot more structured than how our public website is.
KevAs far as I can see, commteam has write access to both xmpp.org and xsf-tools.
pep.I'm happy wherever the responsability of commiting to xsf/xmpp.org falls to, I just want it to be explicit (and it isn't atm)
GuusKev oh - that very well could be the case. I didn't check.
KevAs far as I can see, iteam (although not expecting to use it for content) and commteam having write access to the website is sensible.
Guusupon inspection: I don't think that commteam has access
GuusI can't see everything
KevI think giving access beyond that should be a question for Board, because I don't think we should be giving out the ability to speak on behalf of the XSF (which is what the website is) arbitrarily.
MattJStrange, I see the same as Kev and ralphm - commteam has write access to the repo
Guusbut I don't htink that nyco has access, for example, nor has seve.
GuusOh, then I'm missing stuff
KevPermission level: Write
Can read, clone, and push to this repository. Can also manage issues and pull requests.
Guuswhich is entirely possible
KevGuus is not a member of the commteam, incidentally.
KevThat's JC, Nyco, Seve and Winifried.
Guusnope
Guusnope i'm not.
GuusDon't let me confuse people - you guys are in a better position to see what's what than me.
Kevgoes back to work stuffs.
MattJMy proposal would be to drop the 'web' team, and stick to actual well-defined teams
pep.MattJ, +1
MattJand add any other teams that it makes sense to have access
MattJsuch as iteam, maybe board
KevMattJ: I think I'd propose to have an explicit web team, same as our other teams.
GuusI don't care much either way.
MattJCongrats, write the charter, etc. :)
pep.I actually don't care either way
GuusI'll follow Kev's good example and go do works stuff now.
pep.(either)
KevBut I CBA to do anything about it, and it mostly depends whether people on webteam and not on comms would want to do things.
Kev&
MattJI don't see why we would trust someone to manage our website and not trust them to do other public-facing stuff on behalf of the XSF
MattJi.e. why anyone who works on the website shouldn't be part of commteam
MattJor another team with reasonable grounds for access
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ZashSounds reasonable.
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ralphmYup
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ralphmFWIW, the reason that the "Web" team exists is an historical artifact, from when there was no comms team and the website was overhauled.
ralphmI agree it would be useful to just map the XSFs formal Work Teams, Council, and Board, as GitHub Teams as the basis for access.
ralphmI also don't see why they'd need to be secret, as team membership is already made public on our website.
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NeustradamusProblem? https://xmpp.org/
ralphmNeustradamus: works for me, but while you are here, please give me admin access to the LinkedIn org for the XSF.
Guushttps://xmpp.org/ works for me
ZashVauge question?
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ralphmNeustradamus: I think I've asked often enough by now.
NeustradamusI have a blank page for https://xmpp.org/
Guus> I have a blank page for https://xmpp.org/
I suspect that this is a problem local to you. It works fine for others, including me. I've even tried an incognito tab.
NeustradamusCache problem, sorry
ralphmNeustradamus: did you see my message?
NeustradamusIt is possible to update the logo?
- https://twitter.com/xmpp
- https://wiki.xmpp.org/images/xmpp.png
- https://xmpp.org/theme/images/xmpp-logo.svg and other too (regenerate from the last .SVG)
- Memberbot
- Other places
ralphmNeustradamus: Is is possible to respond to my request for LinkedIn Org admin?
ralphmNeustradamus: Is it possible to respond to my request for LinkedIn Org admin?
GuusNeustradamus I can't fix 'other places' if I don't know where those are. 🙂
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GuusHmm, I don't think I'm an admin of the XMPP team on Twitter (which I think means that I can't change the avatar there)
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GuusPlease keep talking here, Neustradamus, and not in private. I know where the last updated version of the logo is.
GuusBut without access, I can't change it on the systems that it needs to be changed on.
ralphmGuus: I don't think that Tweetdeck allows profile changes like that, you'd have to log into Twitter with the account credentials directly.
Guusralphm which is another reason why I can't do that. I don't have the account credentials.
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ralphmGuus: Kev does. Twitter is not designed for multiple people managing a single account, oddly enough.
NeustradamusGuus:
- https://github.com/xsf and repositories
ralphmNeustradamus: a response to my message, please?
KevI'm not paying attention here, but if you need something please mail ralphm / Guus and I'll try to sort.
ralphmKev: ok, thanks!
GuusThe logo on https://github.com/xsf seems OK to me?
GuusI don't think that individual repositories can have logos.
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Guus(I've emailed Kev with the Twitter request)
ralphmYou can add a logo that'll show up when a repo is mentioned by URL on social media (like Twitter, Slack), but we don't have that right now, and I don't think that's important either.
wurstsalatGuus, is this the current one? I looked for one recently for gajim's website https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:XMPP_logo.svg
GuusThat seems to be correct, yes. I'm always using the one that's on the top-left corner of https://xmpp.org
Guushttps://xmpp.org/theme/images/xmpp-logo.svg
Guuswhich is easy to remember: https://xmpp.org/theme/images/xmpp-logo.svg
NeustradamusGuus: there was a little change after the previous, it was not the exactly same at right and left: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:XMPP_logo.svg
GuusOh, Converse doesn't like me injecting links
ralphmGuus: looks fine here
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Guusgithub logo replaced
GuusCan someone do it on LinkedIn?
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NeustradamusFrom XMPP.org: https://i.ibb.co/vcqmc8b/xmpp-logo-xsf-test.png
From Commons: https://i.ibb.co/Zgsjk3T/XMPP-logo-xsf-test.png
NeustradamusGuus: Do you the difference? :)
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GuusPlease provide a PR to fix the logo on xmpp.org.
pep.ralphm: you have to adopt the Neustradamus technique to get him to reply to you
ralphmNeustradamus: Guus makes a good point. If you'd stop ignoring me, I'd also be able to help him.
pep.ralphm: fwiw once your rights are sorted out, I'd prefer this to get to whatever team it is appropriate rather than individuals
ralphmpep.: naturally
ralphmFor every service that supports this.
ralphm(unlike Twitter, ugh)
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intosiNeustradamus: please respond to ralphm's request.
!XSF_Martinpep.:
> ralphm: you have to adopt the Neustradamus technique to get him to reply to you
What's that? You have to do a special dance?
intosiwhile (true) { askSameQuestion(); sleep(random()%3600); /* this is where a sentinel would be implemented */ }
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GuusNeustradamus do you have a PNG version of the correct logo?
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moparisthebestyou can generate one given the SVG, with inkscape on the command line at least
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GuusYeah, which is going to get me in trouble because I missed pixel. I'd rather have it from him, to avoid any confusion.
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Ge0rGWikipedia also lists https://www.livejournal.com/support/faq/270.html as an XMPP deployment
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MarandaLink Mauve, would there be a case in which eme can be used with messages using multiple encryption formats?
Link MauveHmm, hopefully not, but I could see a made up case where you’d have full stanza encryption around (flagged with EME) and inside another kind of encryption, also flagged with EME.
Link MauveBut those are two different “message” containers.
Link MauveDo you have another possible usecase?
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MarandaLink Mauve, I was just thinking that someone could really just encrypt one message using both openpgp and omemo for example
Link MauveHmm, no, because they both can only encrypt the body.
MarandaThat would mean multiple eme elements would be needed I think? The schema doesn't limit instances either
Link MauveOTR-encrypted in OMEMO or OpenPGP might be a thing though, although I expect no one sane would ever do that.
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Link MauveCan we limit instances of a payload in a message, in the schema?
Ge0rGLink Mauve: yes we can. But should we?
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Ge0rGWhat's wrong with having a body encrypted both ways? Besides of having the possibility to sneak in two different messages, and that the resulting security is the worst of both.
MarandaLink Mauve, I meant that one message stanza can contain both one omemo element and one openpgp element for example, to encrypt/sign whatever the same message content for something supporting one or the other
Ge0rGThe OpenPGP encrypted payload body would read: "I sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo"
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Link MauveGe0rG, let’s rot13 encrypt twice with two EME tags for additional security!
MarandaGe0rG, that's not what I meant either.
Link MauveMaranda, sounds like an amazing can of worms.
Ge0rGLink Mauve: according to XEP-0419?
Link MauveGe0rG, yes.
MarandaGe0rG, I meant encrypted using xep-0374 not the legacy format
Ge0rGMaranda: did you mean something different than what I wrote in my last non-sarcastic message?
Marandawhich has its own element and doesn't use <body />
Marandaiiuc
Marandaso one message in that case could be encrypted using... both?
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Ge0rGMaranda: you could put an <openpgp> element alongside an OMEMO <encrypted> element, and those might even contain ciphertexts of the same plaintext body
MarandaGe0rG, whatever.. I'm just trying to understand if that's a possibility I should take in account or not for MAM if that wasn't clear and if 2 eme elements can be appended to a stanza to advertise both encryptions
flowUnless I hear a very convincing use-case for using multiple encryption mechanisms within the same stanza, I would probably recommend to not consider it. How many e-mail clients are capable of creating mails with OpenPGP and S/MIME parts?
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Ge0rGMaranda: 0380 does not forbid multiple <encryption> elements
Ge0rGMaranda: other than that, you should retain all message elements in MAM
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Ge0rG_maybe_ with the exception of well-known noise elements, like chat states
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MarandaGe0rG, for now it's very convenient to do otherwise... regarding retaining all elements.
Marandabut I'm reviewing that code right now so.
Ge0rGMaranda: I know that path. It leads into major pain later on.
XSF Discussion - 2019-11-12