-
nyco
Neustradamus please give full access to ralphm at least
-
nyco
there, I tried it, we'll see what happens: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6600654130799304704
-
Ge0rG
That's not visible without submitting to LinkedIn
-
nyco
submit what?
-
nyco
you mean that's another Walled Garden? yes, it is... but the people we want to reach out to are there
-
jonas’
nyco, submit yourself
-
nyco
right
-
Ge0rG
I once got a contact invitation from a person I was very interested in a business contact with. After registering on LI and actually talking to them it turned out that we both fell for LI dark patterns
-
Ge0rG
Most of the people who "are there" aren't there by active choice but because they were tricked into it. Just saying. No action required.
-
!XSF_Martin
Ge0rG: LI is like an international xing?
-
Ge0rG
!XSF_Martin: yes, but less ethical.
-
!XSF_Martin
Xing is ethical?
-
Ge0rG
!XSF_Martin: that's not what I said
-
!XSF_Martin
If it is more ethical than something else means it's not not ethical. 😃
-
Seve
I thought Xing was "eatn" by LinkedIn✎ -
!XSF_Martin
Dunno, didn't log in in years I guess.
-
!XSF_Martin
Now I want to hear 'eaten' 'my one desire my only wish is to be EAATEEEEN'
-
Seve
I thought Xing was "eaten" by LinkedIn ✏
-
Ge0rG
!XSF_Martin: your conclusion is wrong. Even among two unethical entities, one can be less ethical than the other.
-
jonas’
-10000 < -1000 is true, not just -10000 < 2
-
Ge0rG
It's not a binary property, unless you are part of a fundamental religious group (which is unethical in its own ways)
-
ralphm
If you mean that ethics are fluid and subjective, sure.
-
!XSF_Martin
Ge0rG, jonas’: Than I would rather say xing is less unethical than li if both are negative. 😃
-
Ge0rG
!XSF_Martin: which would mean that xing is better, whereas what I said means that LI is worse.
-
nyco
https://linguistics.stackexchange.com/questions/981/is-double-positive-meaning-negative-a-common-phenomenon
-
jonas’
Ge0rG, "even less ethical" would’ve worked to convey that
-
Ge0rG
jonas’: thanks, didn't think of that
-
!XSF_Martin
jonas’: That's the best way to express this I think. 😃
-
nyco
FYI: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Social_Media
-
Holger
How would clients using multi-item PEP nodes (such as for Bookmarks 2) handle the case where the number of bookmarks exceeds the max pubsub#max_items value the server accepts? "Dear user, you can't add this room without ditching another?"
-
pep.
badly, for sure
-
pep.
But then you're asking for infinite storage? (if it's not for bookmarks2 it'll be for something else)
-
pep.
Think pubsub nodes in movim/sàt (communities)
-
pep.
edhelas, goffi ^ (how) do you handle that?
-
Ge0rG
Holger: the server should refuse adding new items in such a case, with a proper error, and clients should display that to the user
-
Holger
I would've thought this is not just an academic issue as many (non-recent?) servers won't accept pubsub#max_items > 1 or > 10 or so. Movim/Sàt always required servers with good PubSub support, clients joining rooms didn't.
-
Holger
Ge0rG: Awesome UX.
-
pep.
Holger, anybody can use a movim instance.. I can join with my crappy server config and still be able to post something on microblog :P
-
pep.
Also https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-October/036503.html
-
Holger
pep.: I forgot whether
-
Ge0rG
Holger: not sure if sarcastic
-
Holger
pep.: I forgot whether Movim uses PEP nodes (at least for comments), where the limits are often way more restrictive.
-
pep.
Holger, it depends on the user's account
-
pep.
For communities it depends on the pubsub server that's being used?
-
Holger
Ge0rG: I'm just unsure whether the advantages of Bookmarks 2 really outweigh this downside right now. But I get how multi-item PEP is the new hot thing, and I get how it's nicer in theory.
-
Ge0rG
Holger: yes
-
Link Mauve
Holger, I would expect clients to not use bookmarks 2 before servers expose the urn:xmpp:bookmarks:0#compat disco#info feature.
-
Link Mauve
And servers with a limit of ten bookmarks shouldn’t advertise this feature.
-
Link Mauve
Prosody’s current limit is 255 items, which does feel low (I’m at 100+ already) but should be usable for most people.
-
pep.
What Holger asks though doesn't just apply to bookmarks2
-
pep.
People only using XMPP as chat are just now starting to realize it's an issue but it has always been there
-
Neustradamus
Any news for an XMPP planet and that I have requested since several years ago?
-
pep.
Any news about Linkedin?
-
ralphm
scroll up
-
Seve
What is the request? Change the name?
-
Link Mauve
Yes, I remember ten years ago when I was working on a blogging engine and had to write my own PubSub component because Ejabberd’s didn’t provide me the features I needed.
-
Neustradamus
pep.: If you follow here, you have seen ;)
-
pep.
wow, stuff happened
-
Neustradamus
January 1999: Jabber is born October 2004: Jabber has been renamed to XMPP: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3920 October 2006: Jabber Enhancement Proposals (JEPs) -> XMPP Extension Protocols (XEPs) January 2007: Jabber Software Foundation -> XMPP Standards Foundation Now, maybe after several years of battle, planet.jabber.org will be move to planet.xmpp.org?
-
MattJ
and jabber.org... what should happen to that?
-
Ge0rG
CNAME it to matrix.org
-
Seve
jabber.org is not XSF, isn't it
-
Zash
Nor is planet.jabber.org
-
MattJ
Correct (to both)
-
Seve
Then Neustradamus the request would be to ask the XSF to have its own planet
-
MattJ
which duplicates one that already exists, so I'm guessing the XSF will decide not to :)
-
Maranda
Planet X?
-
Maranda
There's one already!
-
Zash
Does it help facilitate discussion or manage XEP development? If not, hard to see how it should be run by the XSF.
-
Seve
Weeell, that could be debatable, but I see your point.
-
Ge0rG
There is a difference between jabber and xmpp that nobody wants to acknowledge
-
Zash
Who's this 'nobody'?
-
pep.
Jabber is the company name that was sold to Cisco, and XMPP is the protocol name? :p
-
fippo
zash: that is unclear but he shot jack beauregard
-
Seve
Ge0rG, enlighten us
-
Ge0rG
Seve: jabber is the federated IM network based on the XMPP protocol. Also a Cisco trademark
-
Zash
Something something "jabber" more community than the protocol
-
pep.
I'd limit Jabber to Jabber Inc. fwiw, and the XMPP protocol. The rest is just confusion to me✎ -
pep.
I'd limit Jabber to Jabber Inc. fwiw, and XMPP to the protocol. The rest is just confusion to me ✏
-
Ge0rG
pep.: because you are not part of the huge jabber user base, which mainly happens on other continents
-
pep.
not sure I understand
-
Link Mauve
Ge0rG, even in France there are a lot of Jabber users.
-
Link Mauve
People who will look at you as if you spoke Greek to them if you tell them about XMPP.
-
ralphm
There's no battle over Planet Jabber, by the way. Just a difference of opinion, Neustradamus.
-
Ge0rG
pep.: play a bit with https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=xmpp,jabber
-
pep.
Ge0rG, yes, confusion :P
-
nyco
Ge0rG the problem is "jabber" is a common language term
-
pep.
People saying Jabber when they're actually using XMPP
-
Ge0rG
pep.: in Russia for example, almost nobody knows "xmpp" but many tech people know "jabber"
-
Ge0rG
pep.: you "are using xmpp" when you develop an IoT middleware. You "are using jabber" when you do XMPP-federated IM
-
MattJ
I've had the "Oh! You mean Jabber" response multiple times
-
nyco
there is confusion indeed, that's why I often use both, as "Jabber/XMPP" or "XMPP/Jabber", and afaik it kind of works
-
pep.
MattJ, I have too. That doesn't mean..
-
MattJ
from a range of different people
-
Seve
Jabber? that old thing for chat?
-
Seve
Is what people tell me
-
pep.
That ^
-
MattJ
pep., trying to define these words in this chatroom is like writing a dictionary that doesn't reflect real world language
-
Ge0rG
Speaking of hosting. Our MLs are hosted on mail.jabber.org, is that wrong as well?
-
MattJ
Many people still actively use Jabber, and yes, as far as they are concerned it is a 20 year-old thing (but still functional)
-
MattJ
and generally Pidgin is the best way to connect to it, in my experience
-
pep.
MattJ, sure it's not what I'm saying
-
Ge0rG
pep.: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2017-July/008586.html didn't went very far, unfortunately
-
Ge0rG
Luckily, this is all off-topic for the XSF, and there is no other organization tasked with making XMPP-based IM more popular.
-
Ge0rG
So the whole discussion is moot.
-
Ge0rG
Unless, you know, somebody founds a Jabber Software Foundation and gets appropirate permits from the XSF.
-
pep.
that's just a can of worms
-
pep.
With Jabber in the name
-
MattJ
Agreed
-
MattJ
I'd love to revive Jabber as an end-user term, but I don't think it can happen
-
Ge0rG
Or funds a giant marketing campaign to let everybody and their aunt know that XMPP-based IM is now known as Xubber.
-
DebXWoody
When I'm talking with technical persons, I prefer to use XMPP. If I talk with "normal" users, I prefer to use jabber, because I have the feeling it is easier from them.
-
pep.
Ge0rG, I'd vote for that rather (name TBD)
-
Ge0rG
DebXWoody: it's also easier to pronounce
-
nyco
for me: XMPP is to Jabber what HTTP+HTML+JS+CSS is to the web
-
Ge0rG
pep.: I said "fund", not "vote"
-
Ge0rG
reality is, most users of xmpp IM actually know it as "jabber"
-
pep.
And jabber has all that bagage that I'm not ready to take on (esp. Cisco)
-
Ge0rG
we can face that reality and do the best we can with the trademark rights we have, or abandon all the brand value
-
pep.
Everytime somebody pronounces jabber that's one more coin for the trademark jar
-
Ge0rG
pep.: you can buy a license once you've got 500 coins together.
-
pep.
Or the free advertizing for Cisco. However you want to call it
-
Ge0rG
Cisco doesn't have exclusive rights. We are just all too RMSsy to use our part
-
!XSF_Martin
'Normal people' usually know neither jabber nor xmpp. Only one guy said 'oh no, you're using Cisco jabber' as he is forced to use that at work.
-
pep.
They do have a product named Jabber. And they also have unlimited resource* (compared to the XSF or anybody in this room)✎ -
pep.
They do have a product named Jabber. And they also have unlimited resources* (compared to the XSF or anybody in this room) ✏
-
Ge0rG
pep.: yes. Let's use "Ex-Em-Pee-Pee based federated Eye-Am chat network" as our end-user-facing term then.
-
pep.
Ge0rG, I understand all you're saying. This is not being RMSsy this is being cautious
-
pep.
(whatever RMSsy would mean)
-
pep.
(I guess it doesn't mean "cautious")
-
Ge0rG
pep.: religious about FLOSS-style Openness of everything
-
MattJ
I don't think that's the reason
-
pep.
Ge0rG, yeah no that's not my reason, at least
-
Neustradamus
MattJ: https://www.jabber.org/: Jabber.org is the original IM service based on XMPP and one of the key nodes on the XMPP network. It is based on Isode M-Link, you know it ;) I hope an upgrade too, like the OS, there are some tickets about compatibility problems.
-
Neustradamus
And please note that the planet.jabber.org speaks about XMPP.
-
Neustradamus
For French people, the problem is that some people speak always about Jabber instead of XMPP. Example, in 2012, the creation of a french "Loi 1901" association for the XMPP promotion with the old name. -> http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/index.php?ctx=eJxtyjEKwyAUANB*FHHt4FeqaLcQKGRphriL2F9SSNUaW!jte4G8!YUNHg3CN0Pc95IgvCGVVkuLnURvRBfuSxVjuZNf6UUCUSMiZ!yo!V8lFnMuOZEYlmUep8FP840fbQ4hwUmi0xbPShptjXESrXIQ1me*frYNlIY*3JMyIg__&page=15&JTH_ID=005000&JTY_ID=ASSOCIATION
-
nyco
well, there is JabberFr.org, and still no xmppFr.org :)
-
Holger
The way French people speak is weird either way.
-
Link Mauve
Oui baguette.
-
nyco
das ist "true"
-
Neustradamus
And please do not forget that I have requested the XMPPFR name for this association before the creation ;)
-
nyco
we may forget :)
-
Link Mauve
Neustradamus, this association exists since 2003.
-
Link Mauve
It was just a de facto association until 2012, at which point we officialised it to give us more resources (notably a bank account).
-
nyco
and the right to go to jail... :/
-
nyco
(we'll bring you oranges, don't worry...)
-
nyco
Board meeting time
-
Seve
Hello, how are you?
-
Neustradamus
The domain name jabberfr.org can exist but without to be an association ;)
-
ralphm
/bangs gavel
-
ralphm
0. Welcome + Agenda
-
ralphm
Hi all
-
ralphm
Who do we have
- Guus waves
-
MattJ
o/
-
Seve
🙋
-
nyco
.
-
ralphm
Any additional items?
-
Seve
None here
-
Ge0rG
I would like to add an item
-
Ge0rG
specifically the "Post-Election Hand-Over Phase" email to members@ from 2019-11-07
-
Ge0rG
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2019-November/009028.html
-
ralphm
Noted
-
ralphm
1. Minute taker
-
ralphm
...
-
jonas’
sorry, I have to leave in a minute
-
MattJ
I'm explicitly not volunteering, I don't have time today
-
nyco
:'(
-
nyco
ok
-
nyco
give it to me
-
nyco
but one "minute", not more... :)
-
ralphm
Thank you nyco.
-
ralphm
2. Post-Election Hand-Over Phase
-
Guus
Just moving the date of the hand-over phase is a bit silly: we should define what we expect to happen between the election, and the handover.
-
ralphm
I think this is a good idea in itself.
-
MattJ
I don't really see the need for it, myself
-
ralphm
Practically, one of the issues is that it requires modification of our Bylaws, I believe.
-
ralphm
The start of a term currently coincides with the annual meetings
-
ralphm
And in previous years where this has come up, we said that this time of year is better to start work than January 1
-
nyco
please follow and contribute: https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/qn9jumhvzk-2019-11-14-xsf-board-weekly-meeting
-
Guus
I can see how Jan 1st would have a lot of people absent.
-
Seve
Well, it could be the start of the period
-
Guus
I'm a bit ambiguous. What's the pragmatic solution we're looking for? What does this solve exactly?
-
nyco
Jan 1st is a bad idea: in northern hemispehere, it's cold, motivation down, nights are long, and... hangover
-
nyco
I guess a handover is more needed in the Council
-
Guus
There have been 20 handovers now? Did we ever run into issues, or anticipate issues in the future?
-
ralphm
Not really.
-
ralphm
Usually there's a bunch of overlap.
-
ralphm
Also, old Directors have been more than willing to help resolve ongoing issues.
-
Guus
I don't really mind changing it (although I'd dislike having to go through the hoops of getting the Bylaws changed), but I'm not seeing a need for it myself.
-
nyco
a handover/overlap does not have to be strict
-
David Cridland
FWIW, the main problem the Council has with "zero handover" is that some votes are terminated and re-run. I'd have thought that continuity in Board is a more pressing issue with the abrupt handover.
-
nyco
isn't it good to restart a vote with a new council?
-
MattJ
But it's not like it's a surprise, the election date is set far in advance
-
ralphm
I meant overlap as in the diff between Directors in subsequent terms being small.
-
MattJ
So don't start votes before the election date?
-
David Cridland
To be clear, the Council situation is not a problem for me.
-
nyco
yes, I remember, but I may be wrong, that we discussed in the past avoiding 100% of the board renewed at a new election, rigth?
-
ralphm
Generally, in all orgs I have served with, people tend to not take on larger things as their term nears completion.
-
Guus
If this solves an issue that we're suffering for, we should apply changes. If this is more of a theoretical exercise, I'm not in favor of spending effort on it.
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: Last Calls have a very dynamic runtime, depending on how soon Council members cast their votes
-
ralphm
Guus: agreed
-
nyco
yes, the cost of changing the bylaws is quite high
-
MattJ
Ge0rG, they are limited in length though, right? 2 weeks?
-
ralphm
Ge0rG: this is current practice, not what it is supposed to be. AFAIK, Council has 2 weeks to make judgement?
-
Seve
Maybe Council could discuss this issue?
-
Seve
As I can't talk for them
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: a Last Call vote is cast, and can go up to two weeks. Then there is the at-least-two-weeks Last Call period, and then there is a Council vote to advance, which can take up to two weeks
-
ralphm
Seve: maybe, but procedurally, XEP-0001 makes Board responsible for Council's process. Of course with their imput.
-
ralphm
input
-
David Cridland
MattJ, 2 weeks of Last Call plus 2 weeks of vote.
-
Ge0rG
so we are speaking of something between three and seven weeks.
-
MattJ
I don't see how a handover period helps
-
ralphm
Right
-
David Cridland
This is all a good argument for Council getting their votes in quicker, of course.
-
ralphm
Indeed
-
MattJ
You propse that ex-Council should still be entitled to vote?
-
Guus
Ge0rG has this actually lead to issues before, or do we foresee issues with that?
-
MattJ
What if new stuff comes up during handover period? Who votes on that?
-
Seve
> You propse that ex-Council should still be entitled to vote? Does not sound right :)
-
Ge0rG
Guus: yes, Last Calls fell under the carpet multiple times in the past
-
Ge0rG
sorry, I'm in a work meeting right now
-
nyco
>> You propse that ex-Council should still be entitled to vote? > Does not sound right :) seems fair to me as well: like in "finish stuff"?
-
ralphm
Ge0rG: well, Council not following their own process is something we can regret, but I don't feel that we have to change procedures at this point.
-
MattJ
Finish it before the election, or accept that the new Council takes over
-
ralphm
I've heard a bunch of opinions, and think we can put this to a motion.
-
Seve
nyco: I feel is a job for the new board/council to decide on following up with past and unfinished work or not, as opinions may change with elections
- ralphm moves we alter the start date of a new term for Council and Board, to achieve a "handover" period.
-
ralphm
-1
-
nyco
-1
-
Guus
0 is effectively -1, right?
-
ralphm
0 is a valid choice distinct from -1
-
Guus
but a majority of proponents is needed to carry, right?
-
MattJ
-1, unless a clearer proposal is drawn up, with a list of concrete benefits
-
ralphm
It is /not/ affirmative, however, so indeed 0s don't attribute to a motion being passed
-
MattJ
Happy to discuss my objection with anyone who still thinks this is a necessary thing to have
-
ralphm
Seve, Guus?
-
Seve
It is a bit abstract in some cases, I do think as MattJ
-
Guus
I'm 0, with the same argument as MattJ.
-
Seve
-1
-
ralphm
With 4x -1, 1x 0, this motion is rejected.
-
ralphm
Thanks for everyone's input!
-
ralphm
3. Web team
-
ralphm
This was discussed in the xsf@ room earlier this week.
-
ralphm
It basically comes down to unclarity of permissioning in GitHub
-
Guus
I don't think an XSF WorkTeam exists that is 'web team'. 'web team' is a group of users on Github only.
-
ralphm
AFAIR, MattJ was going to have a look at the current GitHub teams defined for the xsf org, and adjust according to XSF Work Teams, Council, Board.
-
nyco
and the technical process between GitHub repo and the live website
-
ralphm
There used to be a time where there was no comms team, and we did have people working on the web site
-
nyco
the website content, as far as I see it, does not belong only to commteam
-
MattJ
Yeah
-
Guus
I think it'd make sense to have at least everyone in the comms team to have the ability to change the website.
-
MattJ
This is already the case
-
ralphm
I think it would be fair to say that we'd at least want Comms Team, Board, and other Officers, to be able to alter the website.
-
nyco
we're officially 4 in the commteam, two are active these days
-
Guus
ralphm I have no objections to that either.
-
Seve
Agree ralphm
-
ralphm
And I believe that's entirely in line with instructions given to iteam in the past
-
Guus
Do we explicitly want to limit access to those groups though?
-
Guus
(eg: I got in webteam before I was on board)
-
nyco
open to iTeam as well
-
ralphm
I am happy for iteam to make decisions on (temporary) exceptions, or ask board when in doubt.
-
ralphm
nyco: iteam has access to all the things, right now, and I think that's fine
-
Guus
(nyco: this lists three, not four people for Comms : https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/comm-team.html)
-
MattJ
Guus, as I said the other day, if someone wants to contribute, I don't see why they shouldn't be in commteam
-
nyco
ok, thx
-
MattJ
We still accept PRs from non-members anyway, but only commteam would be able to merge them
-
nyco
oops
-
ralphm
MattJ: after appointment by Board, obviously.
-
ralphm
MattJ: indeed
-
Guus
Matt: I don't mind doing the occasional merge, but I don't want to be in commsteam.
-
ralphm
Guus: nor do I :-)
-
Guus
(as that implies more responsibilities than that I care to take on)
-
ralphm
MattJ (with his iteam hat on): is this sufficient instruction?
-
MattJ
Guus, I think you should be in commteam, or not merge, or we agree that Board also has website powers
-
MattJ
and if you lose your Board seat, you can't merge
-
nyco
huh... please: it's commteam, not commsteam, that may be read as "comm steam", which is wrong :)
-
MattJ
I don't think we should have an ambiguous web team
-
ralphm
nyco: whatever
-
ralphm
MattJ: make it so
-
Guus
MattJ I don't mind having an ambiguous web team, but won't object to that no longer being the case in the future.
-
MattJ
We agreed commteam+iteam, what about board?
-
ralphm
I mentioned Board above. I think they should have access, but generally let the Communications Team handle PRs
-
Seve
Board should have I think. To speed up processes as well.
-
Guus
board is not ment to be an operational entity, is it?
-
MattJ
Guus, access and responsibilities are different in my opinion
-
Seve
Hmmm
-
Guus
I don't think it should be needed to have board be able to merge, but as it's in their mandate to apply changes, I'm not against them having access either.
-
MattJ
I think people we trust to steer the organisation we should also trust enough to give repo access to our website
-
ralphm
Board should be able to change the website without the consent of the Communications Team, should that need arise.
-
ralphm
Yes
-
MattJ
Guus, note that you lose your ability to merge if we don't
-
ralphm
:-)
-
Guus
I know
-
ralphm
Ok
-
Kev
I think the alternative is an explicit webteam, approved by Board, chartered, whatever.
-
Guus
but that shouldn't drive my vote.
-
MattJ
ok, so I think we're good
-
Kev
And this seems easier than that :)
-
ralphm
Indeed
-
ralphm
4. AOB
-
nyco
we already have iteam, board, commteam, let them merge PRs
-
ralphm
(as we're already past 16:00)
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MattJ
commteam manages website repo, iteam and board also have permissions
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Guus
wfm. Maybe ask iteam to have an explicit check/update of permissions after elections?
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Kev
Expectation being that iteam generally won't, unless it's a technical thing, but have the ability, right?
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Guus
(I think that currently fails)
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ralphm
Oh, the Mediawiki item is something for iteam, not Board.
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nyco
ok
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Guus
Kev: I'd say so, yes.
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nyco
where should I report it then?
- Guus points at Matt
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ralphm
with iteam, MattJ is their lead
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nyco
ok
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ralphm
5. Date of Next
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ralphm
+1W
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Seve
+1
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MattJ
wfm
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ralphm
6. Close Thanks all!
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Guus
wfm
- ralphm bangs gavel
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Guus
Thanks
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Seve
Super, thank you!
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nyco
thx all
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nyco
MattJ: our current Mediawiki version is unsupported, it would be nice to upgrade soon-ish, no pressure, no hurry, just to avoid some worries
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MattJ
Yeah, thanks, it's on my radar
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nyco
thx
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nyco
please review the minutes draft before I send it: https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/qn9jumhvzk-2019-11-14-xsf-board-weekly-meeting?lang=fr
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pep.
So it's great stuff gets decided etc., as a newbie where can I learn about all that (starting in the xsf). Should task each team or board or.. To write this down somewhere when something gets changed?✎ -
pep.
So it's great stuff gets decided etc., as a newbie where can I learn about all that (starting in the xsf). Should we task each team or board or.. To write this down somewhere when something gets changed? ✏
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pep.
(I'm happy the website situation got "clarified" :))
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rion
Hi. regarding Jingle XEP. If some action doesn't explicitly state "action is used to add one or more new content definitions to the session", does it mean it's applicable to just one content definition?
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MattJ
Who is behind @xmpp@fosstodon.org on mastodon?
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vanitasvitae
MattJ: i guess the 404 guy
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vanitasvitae
404.city
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Zash
nyco? https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Social_Media#Mastodon_.28experiment.29
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MattJ
Ah, good