XSF Discussion - 2019-11-18

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  154. edhelas

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21562261 got a few remarks about XMPP there

  155. edhelas

    it's on HN first page

  156. MattJ

    Nice :)

  157. Holger

    edhelas: Funny remark about the name, never thought of a Vim fork 🙂

  158. Holger

    And wasn't aware of the acronym.

  159. edhelas

    Actually Vim is a fork of Movim 🤫

  160. Holger

    Vim is what happens if you rewrite Movim in C?

  161. edhelas

    yup, we also ported the "can't escape feature", we call it the "Schrödinger's MUC presence"

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  163. Zash

    edhelas: Have you tried not mentioning XMPP some time, see how people react?

  164. edhelas

    "is it based on Matrix" :p ?

  165. edhelas

    but yes it's an idea, I'm also presenting the project as a simple "communication platform" when i feel that the whole XMPP thing is too technical

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  167. edhelas

    JSON in websockets https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21563294 \o/ here we go

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  171. pep.

    Of course the hardest part is the XML we all know

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  217. MattJ

    edhelas, I second Zash's suggestion - you'll observe that >90% of the discussion is related to XMPP, and almost none of it is about Movim or any of the things Movim can do

  218. MattJ

    HN is a specific type of audience who have a love/hate relationship with XMPP - but as far as Movim is concerned, I don't think any of that baggage is very relevant

  219. pep.


  220. pep.

    Well it's also compatible with Sàt

  221. MattJ

    Say it is built on top of the XMPP network, or supports federation via XMPP, or whatever

  222. MattJ

    in the small print on the website

  223. pep.

    yeah. Also what I have in mind

  224. MattJ

    But "XMPP client" in the title is just asking for people to judge the project based on what their prior experience of XMPP is, not their experience of Movim

  225. pep.

    One has to recognize that XMPP is not good branding in the open world

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  228. jonas’

    or what they think other people’s experience with XMPP was.

  229. MattJ

    Funny that the rest of the discussion that is relevant to Movim is about how the name is too easily confused with vim, and must be changed if at all possible

  230. MattJ

    I can see that really confusing my family members if I set it up for them

  231. edhelas

    MattJ thanks for the feedback, next time I'll remove the XMPP mention and see how it goes yeah :)

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  234. MattJ

    Also see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21563600

  235. pep.

    I think this uses ConverseJS. Converse is not a full featured client on its own, and will require your own websocket-enabled proxy most of the time since BOSH is rarely enabled." people being wrong on the internet..

  236. Zash

    FUD, on HN? Never!

  237. MattJ

    edhelas, in any case, I haven't said it yet - congratulations :)

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  241. pep.


  242. pep.

    MattJ, ^ :P

  243. MattJ


  244. Zash

    Yeah, grats edhelas

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  246. pep.

    pff, it got below the whole XMPP debate again..

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  300. David Cridland

    https://dev.to/dwd/sending-a-message-mmc <-- Comments and corrections welcome.

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  305. pep.

    english question: "everywhere where", is this common?

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  309. David Cridland

    Hmmm. I can probably make that "everywhere", indeed.

  310. moparisthebest

    I think so yes

  311. David Cridland

    Done, thanks.

  312. moparisthebest

    I meant I think that's common, but yea can be removed too

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  315. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: sent you some remarks in private. Also your examples are missing the obvious situation when one message is MIA and the follow-up message gets chat-marker-acked

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  323. David Cridland

    Ge0rG, I think the principle is that we know if this is likely to have happened via '198 etc.

  324. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: if we only had s2s 0198

  325. David Cridland

    I think we do.

  326. Ge0rG

    In theory only

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  331. David Cridland

    There's some questions over resumption, I think, but the basic acking service is solid (and in principle, the need for resumption should be much less).

  332. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: in principle.

  333. Ge0rG

    In practice, I'm experiencing multi-hour unidirectional failures between my server and muc.xmpp.org

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  336. Ge0rG

    And all messages sent during such a failure are lost.

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  404. pep.

    dwd, is that another take on https://dev.to/dwd/two-generals-8l5 btw?

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  462. David Cridland

    pep., Basically. But better written (I hope) and hopefully more encouraging toward XMPP.

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  466. David Cridland

    Loosely, I think XMPP is "winning" the space I'm calling "Critical Messaging", and I think we can capitalize on this (and move outward into other spaces from there, too).

  467. David Cridland

    So discussing message reliability and things through this lens is, I think, a useful marketing message.

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  484. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: what's the target audience? Military contractors?

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  486. Ge0rG

    I still think that we need more high profile users of xmpp listed on our pages

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  490. David Cridland

    Ge0rG, No, more the crowd that thinks "Well, if it's good enough for...". And yes, it'd be great to get some case studies from high-profile names.

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  504. B311

    131 i got also problems to talk with Ge0rG and his manyorhernames

  505. B311

    (i could doxx right now)

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  510. Ge0rG

    B311: unfortunately, most of my contact info is public, and I only use one name.

  511. Ge0rG

    Oh. Too late.

  512. Tracer(Traceur)

    Ge0rG: hi

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  515. Tracer(Traceur)

    i guess u mis red my message Ge0rG

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  518. Ge0rG

    Surely I did

  519. David Cridland

    Tracer(Traceur), You appear to be threatening to publish private data on an individual, is that not what you meant?

  520. Tracer(Traceur)

    i do?

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  523. Tracer(Traceur)

    let's ask an `admin` M.

  524. pep.

    If there was sarcasm involved I must have missed it

  525. Tracer(Traceur)

    wie z.B. der gute K3v

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  528. Tracer(Traceur)

    0der !Martin

  529. Tracer(Traceur)

    ausm `kuketz-blog` ne'

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  532. Ge0rG

    Tracer(Traceur): sorry, I'm not a participant of that community, I just lack the time

  533. Tracer(Traceur)

    Ge0rG: be sorry for that bullshit you serve to this community

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  536. Ge0rG

    Yeah, everybody in the XSF hates me.

  537. Tracer(Traceur)

    Ge0rG: No way

  538. pep.

    What's all this ad hominem for? early christmas?

  539. Guus wanders in, frowns.

  540. Guus

    What did I miss?

  541. Guus

    (I liked the article, dwd)

  542. Ge0rG

    pep.: I have no idea.. Apparently somebody thinks I'm somebody else

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  545. moparisthebest

    well that is such a unique name there can only be one in the entire world right?

  546. Zash

    "my commonName is globally unique" something something X.500 joke

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  548. Guus

    Don't get me started

  549. Guus

    I've been battling LDAP all day

  550. Guus

    Well, LDAPs escaping JNDI escaped Java's escaped slashes

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  552. Guus

    That was fun

  553. Zash

    So much escaping, the slash escapes into your mind!

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  556. jonas’

    escaping hell

  557. jonas’

    my favourite of that would be the tab-completion zsh does with fusermount -u

  558. jonas’

    which somehow manages to replace ` 0` in a path with an actual nul byte. on the terminal.

  559. jonas’

    I don’t think I want to know what goes wrong *there*

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  567. David Cridland

    Ge0rG, He's not annoyed about Jar Jar Binks is he? I could understand that.

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  571. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: you can blame me for many things, but not for Jar Jar.

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  614. !XSF_Martin

    > 0der !Martin > ausm `kuketz-blog` ne' Wow, but I would be more impressed if you threat to doxx me if I would not be using my real name on my websites and git repos...

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  642. Tracer(Traceur)

    !XSF_Martin: no martin

  643. Tracer(Traceur)

    id doxx " Savant " aka CrYpToWl

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  645. 8311


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