XSF Discussion - 2019-11-20


  1. alexis has left

  2. alexis has joined

  3. pdurbin has left

  4. mukt2 has joined

  5. neshtaxmpp has left

  6. wurstsalat has left

  7. mukt2 has left

  8. adiaholic has left

  9. alexis has left

  10. karoshi has left

  11. mukt2 has joined

  12. waqas has left

  13. waqas has joined

  14. Douglas Terabyte has joined

  15. waqas has left

  16. waqas has joined

  17. mukt2 has left

  18. debacle has left

  19. andy has left

  20. mukt2 has joined

  21. mukt2 has left

  22. stpeter has joined

  23. stpeter has left

  24. mimi89999 has left

  25. mukt2 has joined

  26. mimi89999 has joined

  27. neshtaxmpp has joined

  28. pdurbin has joined

  29. Dele (Mobile) has left

  30. Daniel has left

  31. Daniel has joined

  32. mukt2 has left

  33. mukt2 has joined

  34. neshtaxmpp has left

  35. pdurbin has left

  36. andrey.g has joined

  37. Daniel has left

  38. Calvin has joined

  39. calvin has joined

  40. adiaholic has joined

  41. waqas has left

  42. waqas has joined

  43. adiaholic has left

  44. adiaholic has joined

  45. adiaholic has left

  46. adiaholic has joined

  47. adiaholic has left

  48. adiaholic has joined

  49. Calvin has left

  50. pdurbin has joined

  51. calvin has left

  52. Calvin has joined

  53. calvin has joined

  54. mukt2 has left

  55. Daniel has joined

  56. zukzuk has joined

  57. lskdjf has left

  58. pdurbin has left

  59. adiaholic has left

  60. adiaholic has joined

  61. mukt2 has joined

  62. calvin has left

  63. Calvin has left

  64. Calvin has joined

  65. mukt2 has left

  66. moparisthebest has left

  67. Calvin has left

  68. adiaholic has left

  69. adiaholic has joined

  70. Daniel has left

  71. Calvin has joined

  72. zukzuk has left

  73. mukt2 has joined

  74. zukzuk has joined

  75. Calvin has left

  76. Daniel has joined

  77. mukt2 has left

  78. Calvin has joined

  79. mukt2 has joined

  80. kokonoe has joined

  81. neshtaxmpp has joined

  82. lorddavidiii has joined

  83. Tobias has joined

  84. Nekit has joined

  85. Daniel has left

  86. andy has joined

  87. mukt2 has left

  88. kokonoe has left

  89. neshtaxmpp has left

  90. kokonoe has joined

  91. mukt2 has joined

  92. karoshi has joined

  93. mukt2 has left

  94. LNJ has joined

  95. wurstsalat has joined

  96. mimi89999 has left

  97. mimi89999 has joined

  98. kokonoe has left

  99. Calvin has left

  100. Nekit has left

  101. Nekit has joined

  102. mukt2 has joined

  103. kokonoe has joined

  104. Calvin has joined

  105. kokonoe has left

  106. kokonoe has joined

  107. pdurbin has joined

  108. mukt2 has left

  109. pdurbin has left

  110. kokonoe has left

  111. kokonoe has joined

  112. Lance has joined

  113. mukt2 has joined

  114. Calvin has left

  115. adiaholic has left

  116. Calvin has joined

  117. adiaholic has joined

  118. adiaholic has left

  119. adiaholic has joined

  120. Lance has left

  121. adiaholic has left

  122. adiaholic has joined

  123. Daniel has joined

  124. zukzuk has left

  125. kokonoe has left

  126. kokonoe has joined

  127. goffi has joined

  128. lorddavidiii has left

  129. lorddavidiii has joined

  130. adiaholic has left

  131. adiaholic has joined

  132. adiaholic has left

  133. adiaholic has joined

  134. zukzuk has joined

  135. LNJ has left

  136. Calvin has left

  137. mukt2 has left

  138. kokonoe has left

  139. mukt2 has joined

  140. adiaholic has left

  141. adiaholic has joined

  142. marc_ has joined

  143. mukt2 has left

  144. mukt2 has joined

  145. COM8 has joined

  146. goffi has left

  147. mimi89999 has left

  148. kokonoe has joined

  149. Shell has left

  150. Alex has left

  151. Alex has joined

  152. adiaholic has left

  153. nyco

    a question: https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/103166428834063205 @sofia@chaos.social @xmpp hi there! i was wondering if XMPP has any standards or plans for self-verifying IDs? like if my public key (or it's hash) is a4244aa43ddd6e3ef9e64bb80f4ee952f68232aa008d3da9c78e3b627e5675c8 then my id could be a4244aa43ddd6e3ef9e64bb80f4ee952f68232aa008d3da9c78e3b627e5675c8@jabber.ccc.de and so everyone who knows my id automatically has a verified, secure channel to me.. sofia @sofia@chaos.social oh, the same question goes to @matrix , too! it may even be more relevant to #matrix because i think they have a single default e2e encryption scheme, unlike XMPP. #selfVerifyingID

  154. kokonoe has left

  155. kokonoe has joined

  156. !XSF_Martin

    Like adding your omemo ID to your jid in conversations?

  157. !XSF_Martin

    xmpp:info@mdosch.de?omemo-sid-709870363=951898c88f683d55e7fe74dc9b8980489162d251b140bd9e5ccd8d28f7f7dc70

  158. !XSF_Martin

    If you add me with this link in conversations you'll automatically have my omemo key verified. Don't know if it's included in the omemo xep and other programs support this too.

  159. !XSF_Martin

    Maybe Daniel can clarify.

  160. mathijs has left

  161. mathijs has joined

  162. lorddavidiii has left

  163. lorddavidiii has joined

  164. mukt2 has left

  165. mukt2 has joined

  166. Ge0rG

    !XSF_Martin: I think the underlying idea is to use your key-id as an identifier instead of the localpart of the JID

  167. Ge0rG

    if followed consequently, the domain part will be merely a routing identifier, i.e. "I'm currently holding my temporary state at jabber.ccc.de, but tomorrow it might be fancyjabs.biz"

  168. !XSF_Martin

    Where is this more unique/verified than your jid?

  169. Ge0rG

    The Matrix folks are in the process of retrofitting this mechanism after they found out that having a server responsible for your identity is a "dumb" idea ;)

  170. !XSF_Martin

    Oh, so that would need some sort of registry?

  171. Ge0rG

    !XSF_Martin: no. it would need servers to verify your proof of key ownership

  172. Ge0rG

    !XSF_Martin: but the resulting protocol would be a different subset of Zooko's triangle

  173. Ge0rG

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle>

  174. !XSF_Martin

    As a self hoster my domain and my jid on my website is proof enough for me. 😂

  175. mukt2 has left

  176. Ge0rG

    nyco: does that help in answering?

  177. 8311 has joined

  178. kokonoe has left

  179. nyco

    nope, I don't understand this discussion, sorry... :) I suggest some of you (who have fediverse accounts) engage the conversations, or you suggest me a text answer that I will post as @xmpp

  180. pdurbin has joined

  181. mathijs has left

  182. mathijs has joined

  183. winfried has left

  184. winfried has joined

  185. pdurbin has left

  186. Ge0rG

    nyco: text suggestion: In the federated XMPP IM network, user identity is always enforced by the respective servers, allowing for human-readable identifiers, and there are no current plans to change this. You could create an overlay network, where user accounts would authenticate to a server by their keypair, and the username part would be a hash or fingerprint resulting from this. To be secure, that approach would require that a client signs every piece of information that is stored on the server or transmitted to other systems, and each other system will have to verify that signature. The domain part of your ID would become merely a "drop box" for the data sent to you, as you could re-register with your key pair on any other domain, and XMPP would be just a routing layer for your overlay network with your currently-used server as a single point of failure. Eventually, you will realize that XMPP is not a perfect routing layer for such a protocol, and that there are better protocols for the requested traits of Zooko's triangle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle>

  187. Ge0rG

    I hope this take isn't too cynical

  188. flow

    at some point you end with the "dead drops" that vuvuzela.io uses

  189. Ge0rG

    Vuvuzela: > Vuvuzela is a private chat application that hides metadata, including who you chat with and when you are chatting. Also Vuvuzela: > Create your Vuvuzela account [_] I am not a robot (reCAPTCHA)

  190. Nekit has left

  191. Nekit has joined

  192. Ge0rG

    Only reinforces me in my opinion not to trust things hosted on .IO domains

  193. adiaholic has joined

  194. goffi has joined

  195. kokonoe has joined

  196. winfried has left

  197. winfried has joined

  198. David Cridland

    nyco, I think you touch on the answer there. Using hashes as addresses (which was first discussed for email, incidentally) has problems because you end up with a fixed (ie, non-agile) encryption mechanism. Moreover, what if a key is compromised? To have access to the key ends up implicitly granting access to the identity, so if your key is changed then so must your address. XMPP has tried overloading portions of the address with meanings other than routing; it really is a painful problem when those meanings diverge.

  199. Steve Kille has left

  200. Steve Kille has joined

  201. David Cridland

    nyco, An alternative solution is a secure method for binding a key to an identity. X.509, for example, uses a trusted third party to verify this, PGP uses a web of trust instead for much the same result. Many E2EE solutions use an-person verification solution (QR codes, fingerprints, etc), or simply "leap of faith", where you prove consistency rather than identity.

  202. COM8 has left

  203. kokonoe has left

  204. LNJ has joined

  205. kokonoe has joined

  206. David Cridland

    nyco, FWIW, I don't think the question refers to Zooko's Triangle, since the question doesn't care about human readable names, but that notwithstanding, Ge0rG's answer is correct.

  207. Daniel has left

  208. Daniel has joined

  209. COM8 has joined

  210. COM8 has left

  211. kokonoe has left

  212. adiaholic has left

  213. adiaholic has joined

  214. kokonoe has joined

  215. neshtaxmpp has joined

  216. Ge0rG

    While the question does not refer to it, I still think that it's a valuable hint in understanding the problem space.

  217. Ge0rG

    Even though I disagree with the Wikipedia list of things that have "solved" Zooko's

  218. adiaholic has left

  219. adiaholic has joined

  220. debacle has joined

  221. kokonoe has left

  222. kokonoe has joined

  223. Guus

    What's the most up-to-date specification that we have on message deletion?

  224. Guus

    or ephemeral messages?

  225. Guus

    There was some discussion on this a while back, but did that ever make it into a XEP?

  226. kokonoe has left

  227. Zash

    Guus: You mean actual deletion/retraction or the whole routing 2.0 thing?

  228. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0424.html and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0425.html are new

  229. mimi89999 has joined

  230. Guus

    424 is what I'm after

  231. Guus

    thanks

  232. kokonoe has joined

  233. jubalh has joined

  234. kokonoe has left

  235. winfried has left

  236. winfried has joined

  237. Daniel has left

  238. kokonoe has joined

  239. Daniel has joined

  240. Daniel has left

  241. Daniel has joined

  242. mukt2 has joined

  243. kokonoe has left

  244. adiaholic has left

  245. adiaholic has joined

  246. COM8 has joined

  247. mukt2 has left

  248. COM8 has left

  249. adiaholic has left

  250. adiaholic has joined

  251. kokonoe has joined

  252. debacle has left

  253. waqas has left

  254. adiaholic has left

  255. adiaholic has joined

  256. adiaholic has left

  257. adiaholic has joined

  258. adiaholic has left

  259. adiaholic has joined

  260. adiaholic has left

  261. adiaholic has joined

  262. kokonoe has left

  263. Dele (Mobile) has joined

  264. kokonoe has joined

  265. lorddavidiii has left

  266. kokonoe has left

  267. lorddavidiii has joined

  268. 8311 has left

  269. 8311 has joined

  270. larma has left

  271. kokonoe has joined

  272. Link Mauve

    “09:14:13 Ge0rG> Only reinforces me in my opinion not to trust things hosted on .IO domains”, yet you use poez.io!

  273. Ge0rG

    origin git://git.poez.io/poezio (fetch) Damn it.

  274. debacle has joined

  275. larma has joined

  276. Yagiza has left

  277. Yagiza has joined

  278. adiaholic has left

  279. adiaholic has joined

  280. kokonoe has left

  281. kokonoe has joined

  282. COM8 has joined

  283. adiaholic has left

  284. adiaholic has joined

  285. APach has left

  286. pdurbin has joined

  287. APach has joined

  288. COM8 has left

  289. mukt2 has joined

  290. Wojtek has joined

  291. adiaholic has left

  292. adiaholic has joined

  293. Maranda has left

  294. Maranda has joined

  295. pdurbin has left

  296. kokonoe has left

  297. pdurbin has joined

  298. adiaholic has left

  299. adiaholic has joined

  300. winfried has left

  301. winfried has joined

  302. kokonoe has joined

  303. mukt2 has left

  304. pdurbin has left

  305. krauq has left

  306. pdurbin has joined

  307. kokonoe has left

  308. pep.

    Ge0rG, re hash as localpart, there could be non-trivial infrastructure added (DHT etc.) to allow this, and then a different bind method etc.

  309. pep.

    The rest of the addressing would be the same

  310. krauq has joined

  311. pep.

    It's not done at the moment, but un the same way we now have a CA XEP we could have a DHT xep :P

  312. Ge0rG

    pep.: you'd only lose one of the basic aspects of XMPP

  313. pep.

    how so

  314. Ge0rG

    that servers are responsible for managing accounts on them

  315. Ge0rG

    a completely different question: a friend of mine is looking to integrate with Google Firebase via XMPP, and I can't even understand how Google is making use of XMPP for that API from the official docs

  316. adiaholic has left

  317. adiaholic has joined

  318. Ge0rG

    are there any resources for people who *do* know how XMPP works?

  319. ralphm

    https://fosdem.org/2020/news/2019-11-19-accepted-stands/

  320. ralphm

    yay

  321. lskdjf has joined

  322. Zash

    Woo

  323. Guus

    > but who will be where will be announced closer to the event.

  324. pep.

    Ge0rG, servers could still be responsible for managing accounts on them. A user could choose where to have their account managed, and could also easily decide to move them around

  325. Guus

    Interesting to find out if we get more space this year!

  326. pep.

    (that's one possible answer to <moved/>)

  327. Zash

    People lose their keys. Massive pain to have a key be your identity.

  328. pep.

    Thaat's their issue, and it's always been

  329. pep.

    They currently lose their password it's the same story

  330. jonas’

    a password can be changed

  331. Zash

    Has Summit 2020 dates been set?

  332. jonas’

    if your identity is tied to your key ...

  333. mukt2 has joined

  334. pep.

    jonas’, the operator has the responsability to decide if they allow giving access to a potential attacker :)

  335. pep.

    I prefer to leave this responsability to the user themselves tbh

  336. pep.

    Zash, yep, before FOSDEM

  337. Zash checks https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Conferences/Summit_24

  338. pep.

    it's been twitter somewhere and on the wiki yeah

  339. pep.

    it's been tweeted somewhere and on the wiki yeah

  340. pep.

    ralphm, any idea why Matrix is not included in the realtime lounge again?

  341. pep.

    Why they can be separate from everyone else

  342. pep.

    Next year can we have XMPP splitted as well if so?

  343. Zash

    Marketing reasons I assume

  344. pep.

    Why can't we have marketing as well

  345. Guus

    pep. Probably history: the Realtime Lounge predates Matrix.

  346. Guus

    at the time, joining forces gave better chances of all related projects being accepted.

  347. pep.

    That doesn't really explain it to me. "Hey Matrix! We're going to put you in the realtime lounge", done.

  348. Guus

    That suggests that Fosdem organisation re-groups they applicants.

  349. pep.

    I already raised this "issue" a few months ago fwiw

  350. Guus

    The realtime lounge is being asked for by a group of related projects. Matrix did their own request.

  351. David Cridland

    Ge0rG, The Firebase XMPP interface is actually a legacy one, which is why the docs are sparse.

  352. Guus

    We could ask them to join us, or we could ask for our one spot

  353. pep.

    Guus, maybe we need to do the opposite then? Request a slot for XMPP itself

  354. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: what's the official FCM API if you need upstream messages?

  355. David Cridland

    I thought it was HTTP/2 for the shinies - you need messages from device to backend, do you?

  356. Ge0rG

    I already know from Android development that you need at least one full-time developer just to keep up with Google changing APIs

  357. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: exactly

  358. Guus

    pep. yes we could do that. I'm not sure if that improves our chances of getting a spot though.

  359. Seve

    If we can apply to both, I guess is fine. Otherwise we would risk it and lose the spot entirely, is it?

  360. David Cridland

    Ge0rG, Send a normal push and then have the app callback with an XMPP session? :-)

  361. kokonoe has joined

  362. pep.

    Guus, well Matrix is getting their own.. I'm not sure why not

  363. David Cridland

    Also, didn't know there was Saturday-only and Sunday-only stands.

  364. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: was that ironic?

  365. Guus

    because there's a status quo. Also, other projects in the realtime lounge put in quite some effort to get things organized.

  366. ralphm

    pep. we can totally have XMPP marketing there, and we've done that since forever

  367. jubalh has left

  368. David Cridland

    Ge0rG, Not entirely. But I don't know that it's a terrible idea - I find the feedback from Push pretty poor at the best of times.

  369. ralphm

    Doing it as the Realtime Lounge just gave us a better chance of being accepted, than each individual project (XMPP, Jitsi, other RTC projects) on their own

  370. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/android/upstream clearly says that you need FCM XMPP for that

  371. David Cridland

    Ge0rG, Oh, still? Well, that's good I suppose.

  372. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: feedback from your developers doing Push regarding reliability / real-time?

  373. pep.

    ralphm, people see "Matrix" and they don't see "XMPP"

  374. pep.

    We're not playing on the same field

  375. Zash

    pep.: XMPP isn't a FOSS project

  376. ralphm

    Zash: the dates were announced even by e-mail on several mailinglists on Aug 11, including summit@.

  377. David Cridland

    Ge0rG, You might be able to make some sense out of the Python asyncio FCM library, I know that uses XMPP.

  378. ralphm

    pep. on the schedule you mean, yes, that is true. On the floor, they totally see XMPP.

  379. pep.

    Zash, that's another problem sure. XMPP unlike Matrix is not a standard, an implementation, a company, etc. all at the same time

  380. LNJ has left

  381. Wojtek has left

  382. Guus

    Note that we get a lot of benefit from bundling forces. Saul does most of the organizing and often is manning the devroom too.

  383. Wojtek has joined

  384. Guus

    Our exposure on the floor is pretty good

  385. Ge0rG

    David Cridland: let's move this into private chat. I'm currently looking at Smack as an FCM client library

  386. Guus

    (we could improve the look and feel, but there's definitely a XMPP presence - basically all of the lounge is XMPP)

  387. pep.

    Ge0rG, I think our exposure is pretty bad, but that's another topic

  388. Yagiza has left

  389. pep.

    In the corner where nobody goes

  390. Yagiza has joined

  391. Guus

    Yeah, we've asked for more space in a different location

  392. Guus

    but that wouldn't change by going alone - if anything, we'd get less space.

  393. Guus

    but that wouldn't change by going at it alone - if anything, we'd get less space.

  394. David Cridland

    FWIW, +1 to different location - we're very much in the corner at the moment. But also quite happy as a group.

  395. Guus

    For years, XMPP effectively took all of the floor space that is ment to be shared with a few projects - so we're not doing bad there.

  396. Guus

    Yeah, the location thing has, again, be asked for explicitly. But that's out of our hands.

  397. Zash

    It's a pretty cozy corner FWIW

  398. Guus

    The corner isn't to bad, but it now has to many stands in it

  399. David Cridland

    ralphm, Oh, my wife says to ask you for green hoodies this year.

  400. pep.

    Who decides for the hoodies btw? Can anybody see the swag before it gets printed?

  401. Guus

    So, by doing our own application, we'd reduce the chance of being accepted, run the risk of getting less space on the floor, will have to do our own organizing (especially for the Dev room). Only to get 'XMPP' printed on the folders? For me, that's not enough added value.

  402. Guus

    pep. we desperately want people to provide content there!

  403. Guus

    last year, Dave and Ralph came up with designs

  404. David Cridland

    I didn't!

  405. Guus

    but please, suggest stuff

  406. Guus

    the bottle openers were yours!

  407. Zash

    And as noted, FOSDEM is more for FOSS projects, which XMPP isn't.

  408. David Cridland

    Oh, the text, in which I missed a better gag.

  409. Guus

    See, we need better content pep. - dwd has been failing us! 😃

  410. David Cridland

    The original (grey) hoodies were my design, though.

  411. Zash

    Classic

  412. Shell has joined

  413. David Cridland

    I think we should do pens and notebooks if we can, must be a "messaging" joke there.

  414. Zash

    Letter openers?

  415. Zash

    For extra fun at the airport

  416. Guus

    empty cans with strings.

  417. Zash

    Haha

  418. Guus

    we'll brand them "Matrix" >;-)

  419. David Cridland

    Nice.

  420. Guus back to fixing bugs left by on 'dave' in our codebase

  421. Guus back to fixing bugs left by one 'dave' in our codebase

  422. David Cridland

    A new t-shirt design would be good, if we could think of one.

  423. David Cridland checks name

  424. David Cridland

    Can't be me then.

  425. Guus

    stream management.

  426. David Cridland

    That was Jonny.

  427. Guus

    fun things happen when a client reconnects using the same resource

  428. David Cridland

    Oh, interesting.

  429. pep.

    Guus, isn't that what is done nowadays? :x

  430. pep.

    (using the same resource)

  431. Zash

    Replacing the previous one instead of resuming it?

  432. pep.

    ah

  433. kokonoe has left

  434. Nekit has left

  435. Nekit has joined

  436. Guus

    There's a couple of things going wrong. Long story short: the new session is kicked after the TTL for the original session elapses.

  437. Guus

    But with various periodic tasks, and behavior different between clients, and a requirement of a previous session to have existed, made this hard to reproduce 🙂

  438. Zash

    Reference to the resource instead of the session itself?

  439. ralphm

    pep., I shared my designs with several people involved with organising for the Summit / FOSDEM before they went to print

  440. Guus

    Zash yup

  441. Guus

    ralphm Do we still have orange ones? I ruined mine 😞

  442. ralphm

    David Cridland, suggestion of 'Green Hoodies' noted.

  443. Zash

    Green like the logo?

  444. David Cridland

    ralphm, It'd be quite fun to have a rainbox of colours available.

  445. Zash

    Logo colors?

  446. ralphm

    Guus: a couple, but maybe not all sizes. I'm not at home right now, but can check.

  447. Zash

    Photo shoot with people arranged in the shape of the logo, with proper colors?

  448. Guus

    David Cridland pretty expensive too, if you want to do them in all sizes.

  449. Guus

    ralphm thanks

  450. ralphm

    David Cridland, the problem with many color options is that I would want to know upfront who wants which size/color.

  451. David Cridland

    FWIW, I have to admit I don't much like the sleeve print. Perhaps I'm too old and uncool for that.

  452. MattJ

    Potentially anyone travelling from the UK with merchandise for sale at FOSDEM may be in an interesting situation next year

  453. ralphm

    David Cridland, quite

  454. David Cridland cries

  455. kokonoe has joined

  456. Link Mauve

    MattJ, nah, https://twitter.com/julianpopov/status/1185664196178042880

  457. ralphm

    MattJ, why? You'd leave before brexit, but come back after :-D

  458. Link Mauve

    The XMPP logo we printed on the flyers for Capitole du Libre last weekend was much darker and less shiny than on a computer screen. :(

  459. MattJ

    Would that make me an exporter from the EU??

  460. Link Mauve

    Paper is hard.

  461. ralphm

    Also, the better plan recently has been shipping it to my address, as we also have a van for the event.

  462. Shell has left

  463. Shell has joined

  464. Ge0rG

    ralphm: add some XMPP-branded sweets and you can spray "free candy inside" on the van door

  465. Guus

    LOL

  466. jubalh has joined

  467. ralphm

    Yeah, our region is market leader in that stuff. Should be easy.

  468. moparisthebest has joined

  469. ralphm

    Reminds me of the Breaking Bad session at RealtimeConf: https://vimeo.com/77799055

  470. ralphm

    Oh, how I miss RealtimeConf

  471. kokonoe has left

  472. MattJ

    Indeed

  473. pep.

    hah that's a cool session

  474. Zash

    pep., did you have Prosody stickers btw?

  475. pep.

    I did

  476. kokonoe has joined

  477. pep.

    There's like 5 left

  478. Shell has left

  479. David Cridland has left

  480. David Cridland has joined

  481. ralphm

    pep., 'cool' doesn't even begin to describe this. This was a conference with its own novel, graphic novel, and play + soundtrack (played live in between the sessions)

  482. Shell has joined

  483. ralphm puts on https://benmichel.bandcamp.com/

  484. kokonoe has left

  485. Nekit has left

  486. Nekit has joined

  487. pdurbin has left

  488. kokonoe has joined

  489. pep.

    nice

  490. Calvin has joined

  491. Shell has left

  492. Shell has joined

  493. winfried has left

  494. winfried has joined

  495. Shell has left

  496. Shell has joined

  497. kokonoe has left

  498. mukt2 has left

  499. jubalh has left

  500. kokonoe has joined

  501. Calvin has left

  502. Calvin has joined

  503. mukt2 has joined

  504. winfried has left

  505. winfried has joined

  506. LNJ has joined

  507. winfried has left

  508. 8311 has left

  509. winfried has joined

  510. 8311 has joined

  511. calvin has joined

  512. Calvin has left

  513. Calvin has joined

  514. alameyo has left

  515. alameyo has joined

  516. kokonoe has left

  517. Calvin has left

  518. Calvin has joined

  519. rion has left

  520. aj has joined

  521. aj has left

  522. rion has joined

  523. Calvin has left

  524. Calvin has joined

  525. mukt2 has left

  526. j.r has left

  527. j.r has joined

  528. Calvin has left

  529. pep.

    thoughts about having the muc service also provide an http upload/jingle component or sth to upload files? For when the user server doesn't provide it.

  530. Holger has left

  531. pep.

    Maybe there are times where it makes more sense to have it on the muc at all rather than the user's server.

  532. Ge0rG

    pep.: I totally agree. It's also a minor privacy leak to see your private server's HTTP URL in a MUC

  533. Holger has joined

  534. Zash

    pep.: Not opposed. Authz via affiliation or such?

  535. pep.

    Sure

  536. Ge0rG

    Zash: via occupancy?

  537. Ge0rG

    Maybe the MUC domain should just allow the 0363 IQs to all JIDs that are joined to at least one MUC

  538. MattJ

    Interesting that you could then upload the files to a MUC service and then post the links elsewhere

  539. Zash

    O(rooms) lookup?

  540. LNJ has left

  541. pep.

    MattJ, I guess that's "already an issue" anyway? you can create an anonymous user on most public servers and upload something there

  542. pep.

    Or even just any real account

  543. MattJ

    Sure

  544. Zash

    If it's tied to a single room then it could automatically be broadcast on upload too

  545. Ge0rG

    Good luck figuring out the race conditions between the sending client's message and that

  546. Calvin has joined

  547. adiaholic has left

  548. adiaholic has joined

  549. adiaholic has left

  550. adiaholic has joined

  551. mukt2 has joined

  552. adiaholic has left

  553. adiaholic has joined

  554. Calvin has left

  555. Calvin has joined

  556. jubalh has joined

  557. calvin has left

  558. mukt2 has left

  559. adiaholic has left

  560. adiaholic has joined

  561. Calvin has left

  562. Calvin has joined

  563. mukt2 has joined

  564. pdurbin has joined

  565. mukt2 has left

  566. Calvin has left

  567. Shell has left

  568. Shell has joined

  569. andrey.g has left

  570. Shell has left

  571. Shell has joined

  572. pdurbin has left

  573. intosi has left

  574. Calvin has joined

  575. intosi has joined

  576. Shell has left

  577. Shell has joined

  578. calvin has joined

  579. patrick has joined

  580. Calvin has left

  581. Calvin has joined

  582. Shell has left

  583. andrey.g has joined

  584. jubalh has left

  585. Nekit has left

  586. mukt2 has joined

  587. Calvin has left

  588. j.r has left

  589. j.r has joined

  590. nyco

    https://brandimage.io/insight/XMPP?source=reddit

  591. Nekit has joined

  592. nyco

    https://brandimage.io/insight/XMPP?source=hn

  593. pep.

    "A web page is slowing down your browser. What would you like to do?"

  594. nyco

    indeed, it may be slow weird on my old computer and tab-overloaded browsers I don't have this warning

  595. 8311 has left

  596. 8311 has joined

  597. Calvin has joined

  598. edhelas has left

  599. Shell has joined

  600. 8311 has left

  601. edhelas has joined

  602. kokonoe has joined

  603. mathijs has left

  604. mathijs has joined

  605. adiaholic has left

  606. adiaholic has joined

  607. Calvin has left

  608. patrick has left

  609. karoshi has left

  610. karoshi has joined

  611. kokonoe has left

  612. mukt2 has left

  613. kokonoe has joined

  614. karoshi has left

  615. karoshi has joined

  616. Shell has left

  617. Shell has joined

  618. karoshi has left

  619. karoshi has joined

  620. mathijs has left

  621. mathijs has joined

  622. adiaholic has left

  623. adiaholic has joined

  624. kokonoe has left

  625. LNJ has joined

  626. kokonoe has joined

  627. calvin has left

  628. calvin has joined

  629. marc_ has left

  630. marc_ has joined

  631. mukt2 has joined

  632. lovetox has joined

  633. pdurbin has joined

  634. jubalh has joined

  635. Shell has left

  636. Shell has joined

  637. mukt2 has left

  638. SERGE90 has left

  639. pdurbin has left

  640. Steve Kille has left

  641. mukt2 has joined

  642. marc_ has left

  643. marc_ has joined

  644. Calvin has joined

  645. Steve Kille has joined

  646. mukt2 has left

  647. SERGE90 has joined

  648. LNJ has left

  649. calvin has left

  650. calvin has joined

  651. marc_ has left

  652. Shell has left

  653. Shell has joined

  654. calvin has left

  655. calvin has joined

  656. Shell has left

  657. david has left

  658. david has joined

  659. LNJ has joined

  660. Shell has joined

  661. lorddavidiii has left

  662. lorddavidiii has joined

  663. mukt2 has joined

  664. 8311 has joined

  665. SERGE90 has left

  666. lorddavidiii has left

  667. mukt2 has left

  668. lorddavidiii has joined

  669. SERGE90 has joined

  670. marc_ has joined

  671. 8311 has left

  672. Calvin has left

  673. Calvin has joined

  674. calvin has left

  675. marc_ has left

  676. Calvin has left

  677. marc_ has joined

  678. mathijs has left

  679. mathijs has joined

  680. lorddavidiii has left

  681. winfried has left

  682. winfried has joined

  683. Shell has left

  684. winfried has left

  685. winfried has joined

  686. adiaholic has left

  687. adiaholic has joined

  688. jubalh has left

  689. Calvin has joined

  690. lorddavidiii has joined

  691. pdurbin has joined

  692. mathijs has left

  693. mathijs has joined

  694. Calvin has left

  695. pdurbin has left

  696. calvin has joined

  697. stpeter has joined

  698. Yagiza has left

  699. adiaholic has left

  700. adiaholic has joined

  701. Wojtek has left

  702. LNJ has left

  703. Daniel has left

  704. waqas has joined

  705. Daniel has joined

  706. adiaholic has left

  707. 8311 has joined

  708. Nekit has left

  709. debacle has left

  710. 8311 has left

  711. 8311 has joined

  712. debacle has joined

  713. zukzuk has left

  714. 8311 has left

  715. 8311 has joined

  716. stpeter has left

  717. DebXWoody has left

  718. DebXWoody has joined

  719. jubalh has joined

  720. 8311 has left

  721. 8311 has joined

  722. stpeter has joined

  723. pdurbin has joined

  724. DebXWoody has left

  725. DebXWoody has joined

  726. mathijs has left

  727. mathijs has joined

  728. mathijs has left

  729. mathijs has joined

  730. 8311 has left

  731. 8311 has joined

  732. waqas has left

  733. pdurbin has left

  734. marc_ has left

  735. 8311 has left

  736. waqas has joined

  737. mathijs has left

  738. mathijs has joined

  739. Dele (Mobile) has left

  740. jubalh has left

  741. waqas has left

  742. 8311 has joined

  743. 8311 has left

  744. matkor has left

  745. matkor has joined

  746. jubalh has joined

  747. lovetox has left

  748. DebXWoody has left

  749. DebXWoody has joined

  750. Tobias has left

  751. karoshi has left

  752. andrey.g has left

  753. mukt2 has joined

  754. goffi has left

  755. neshtaxmpp has left

  756. kokonoe has left

  757. Dele (Mobile) has joined

  758. kokonoe has joined

  759. mukt2 has left

  760. waqas has joined

  761. gav has left

  762. waqas has left

  763. waqas has joined

  764. gav has joined

  765. Calvin has joined

  766. pdurbin has joined

  767. Dele (Mobile) has left

  768. gav has left

  769. neshtaxmpp has joined

  770. gav has joined

  771. Calvin has left

  772. pdurbin has left

  773. Calvin has joined

  774. gav has left

  775. gav has joined

  776. Calvin has left

  777. wurstsalat has left

  778. Daniel has left

  779. Daniel has joined

  780. krauq has left

  781. debacle has left

  782. krauq has joined

  783. stpeter has left

  784. Calvin has joined

  785. Calvin has left

  786. Calvin has joined

  787. calvin has left

  788. calvin has joined