Thanks Kev, will mail you shortly, still in some meetings
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Alex
Kev: sent
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Alex
Memberbot is online for the Q4-2019 membership applications
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jonas’
finally an easy election
jonas’
there you go, first set of votes
Alex
👍
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Zash
> The <text/> element [ in an <error> ] is OPTIONAL. [...] It SHOULD NOT be used as the error message presented to a human user
This doesn't match current practice, and what else would you show users?
jonas’
huh.
jonas’
ah well, normally you’d know via the protocol what an error condition means and you should show that primarily
jonas’
e.g. "MUC creation failed due to lack of permissions" for a <forbidden/>
jonas’
and then you’d attach to that the <text/> from the peer I guess... in a "details" field
jonas’
(without that use, the i18n of the <text/> does make zero sense at all)
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lovetox
of course you *could* do that
lovetox
but why should you? if the server already has a more detailed error message
Zash
I believe I've mentioned a wish for a reusable set of text strings for the various stanza errors
Zash
with translations
lovetox
and of course there is not exactly one error condition per server error
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MattJ
Personally I feel when I'm writing server code that I have a pretty good idea what text should be shown to the user when emitting an error (and it varies even within the same condition)
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jonas’
I think the error text sent by the server should detail the "why", while the error text generated from the condition and the action should be the "what plus basic why"
MattJ
We could make custom "application specific" conditions for each instance of error, but the client would need to understand those and get some text from somewhere
jonas’
in the example above, the server could say something like "Only users from domain X are allowed to create rooms"
MattJ
Previously clients have literally copy/pasted the error description text from each condition in the RFC and displayed that
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Zash
s/-/ / + title case gets you ... something
lovetox
yeah seems all really a workaround for not giving server developers the responsibility to formulate a basic englisch sentence
jonas’
lovetox, plus all other languages.
lovetox
yeah and every client has thousands of strings to translate :)
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Zash
Hence why I think it would be nice to have some basic common strings and their translations
jonas’
Zash, agreed
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lovetox
how would something like that look
pep.
To add to the previous discussion on our voting system, I knew something was off with the membership one as well. I can't vote blank :)
jonas’
lovetox, a huge .po file
Zash
Pretty much
Zash
Some file(s) in some format with forbidden = Forbidden | Förbjudet | VERBOTEN | no u
Zash
etc
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Zash
Probably with some variants for eg conflict in MUC meaning something slightly different from conflict in IBR or in resource binding
jonas’
pep., I agree that the voting could use some fixing. I’d go with some Schulze-like method (as suggested by flow) for council/board and add a way to abstain for member votes maybe. pep. would you shepherd this to get it into the Q1 membership meeting?
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lovetox
Zash, i have a hard time picturing this
lovetox
you want a mapping of error conditions to texts?
lovetox
with context
Zash
Pretty much
lovetox
and how are you then going to use that po file
lovetox
picking out the lines you need?
lovetox
or importing the full po file, even though there are many strings in it you never use
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pep.
jonas’, not in a state to answer (I'm a walking zombie, tired), but that's a secondary items I wanted to tackle yeah
Zash
That'd be up to you.
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jonas’
(though importing the whole file is probably easier to maintain)
Zash
And how do you know you'll never use some strings? These are things remote entities can send.
Zash
I'm no expert on .po file management and I don't wanna focus on specific formats.
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Zash
Is there anything that says stream errors must only be sent in one direction?
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Zash
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0178.html#s2s says to just close the TCP connection if the cert is unacceptable