XSF Discussion - 2019-11-28

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  201. David Cridland pep., Youd prefer a closed source one?
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  216. edhelas small question regarding SDP => Jingle mapping, there's actually nothing to map a=msid: and a=msid-semantic: ?
  217. edhelas it's webrtc related things http://www.rtcbits.com/2014/04/what-does-msid-attribute-in-sdp-mean.html
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  221. edhelas https://community.jitsi.org/t/jitsi-dev-msid-semantic-missing-from-first-offer-in-jitsi-meet/11577
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  226. edhelas so it seems that's it not mandatory 🤔
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  242. pep. David Cridland, ha ha.
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  257. David Cridland FWIW, I genuinely prefer that we have some companies making money in a closed-source way on top of our technologies. It means that XMPP isn't just a second-rate thing that Open Source can use because it has to - it's the first chocie for many cases.
  258. David Cridland edhelas, Say fippo's name three times while facing away from a mirror.
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  261. pep. David Cridland, I wasn't involving proprietary software in my thinking above, at all. Just that free software is doomed with NIH, or simply rewriting for educational purposes, but then it becomes semi-viable and some people start to use it and..
  262. pep. I think we've got enough diversity in servers
  263. pep. companies can rewrite their own stack if they want that's not my money
  264. pep. In the free software world I could get contributors instead, if people weren't rewriting their own, for example.
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  270. Link Mauve edhelas, since it applies to ssrc, shouldn’t it go in the XEP-0339 container?
  271. Link Mauve And thus no new XEP required.
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  273. edhelas not sure it applies to ssrc
  274. edhelas there's actually things for srrc
  275. edhelas *ssrc
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  278. Link Mauve Well, msid is even explicitly listed in XEP-0339 examples.
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  286. edhelas a=msid:{ea3e91c3-c926-4c81-a44d-ca55607404bb} != a=ssrc:1656081975 msid:MLTJKIHilGn71fNQoszkQ4jlPTuS5vJyKVIv MLTJKIHilGn71fNQoszkQ4jlPTuS5vJyKVIva0
  287. edhelas no ?
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  340. Guus Unless I've missed a scheduling thingy, it's about time for the first meeting of the new Board?
  341. ralphm bangs gavel
  342. Guus clockwork!
  343. ralphm 0. Welcome + Agenda
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  346. Seve o/
  347. ralphm Welcome new Board! And anyone from the floor!
  348. ralphm Who do we have today?
  349. Seve is here!
  350. Guus o/
  351. ralphm MattJ, pep. ?
  352. MattJ o/
  353. Guus pep. ?
  354. Guus (additional notification thingy attached)
  355. ralphm Hope that pep. will join us soonish.
  356. ralphm In any case, my primary point is the appointment of the Officers of the Corporation.
  357. Guus I have nothing to add - Peter suggested we'd look into the savedotorg.org thingy (which I added to Trello)
  358. ralphm Right!
  359. ralphm 1. Minute taker
  360. nyco https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/n3w9nmiegh-xsf-board-2019-11-28
  361. Guus Also, given that pep. is not here - we might want to check if this day/time is still good for everyone
  362. nyco I'll do that :)
  363. ralphm Thanks nyco!
  364. Guus Thanks nyco
  365. ralphm Guus: indeed
  366. ralphm 2. Election Results
  367. ralphm As we've seen, our kind Secretary announced the results of the new Board and Council. I'd like to take the opportunity to say thanks to nyco for his work on Board in the previous term!
  368. ralphm And welcome pep. as new Director!
  369. Guus +1
  370. nyco congrats pep.! :)
  371. ralphm Also, I understand that jonas’ is the new Chair of Council, and as such will liason with us, and should have been included in the Board mailing list.
  372. Guus _should have_ - did we check?
  373. Guus I'm not even sure who manages the list
  374. Guus iteam? secretary?
  375. ralphm I had a conversaion with David Cridland and he mentioned this in passing. I'm sure MattJ can verify
  376. nyco FYI, I'm out of the list, so someone did something
  377. ralphm 3. Appointment of Officers
  378. nyco might mean the right things are done
  379. Guus k
  380. ralphm According to our bylaws, the corporation has 4 named Officers (and we didn't name others outside of the bylaws AFAIK).
  381. David Cridland jonas’ was duly elected Chair of the XMPP Council indeed.
  382. MattJ I can check after the meeting - traditionally Alex updates the lists when necessary, but I don't know if that has included updating it for the Council chair, I think that's been done by $someone on Board
  383. ralphm These are: Chair, Executive Director, Secretary, and Threasurer.
  384. ralphm Each officer shall hold office for a period of one year or until his or her successor is elected and qualified or until his or her earlier resignation or removal.
  385. ralphm So we should (re)appoint our Officers.
  386. ralphm I suggest we ask Alex and Peter if they'd like to add another year to their respective roles as Secretary and Treasurer.
  387. Alex I volunteer again
  388. ralphm Then I move Alex gets reappointed as Secretary.
  389. ralphm +1
  390. Guus +1
  391. ralphm (Thanks Alex!)
  392. MattJ +1
  393. Seve +1
  394. nyco congrats Alex for your election! :)
  395. ralphm Motion carries! Yay!
  396. ralphm I'll send out an e-mail to Peter
  397. Guus Can someone remind me what we did last year wrt ED?
  398. Guus Peter resigned. We didn't appoint anyone else.
  399. MattJ Waving of hands?
  400. Guus there was discussion.
  401. ralphm For Executive Director, we've had a vacancy since Peter stepped down, and the previous Board has chosen to not actively look to fill that vacancy.
  402. Guus I don't recall the outcome.
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  404. ralphm This means that in practice, the Executive Committee is just our Chair.
  405. Guus Do we want to put out a call for candidates?
  406. Guus Whch probably should come with a job description
  407. MattJ which we failed at last time
  408. ralphm The discussion last year suggested we didn't have an immediate need for this role to be filled, and I don't think that situation has changed. I'd be happy to have that discussion again, but not in this meeting, probably.
  409. Seve Did we have the need to fulfill the position?
  410. MattJ There is the description in the byelaws, and there is the reality that when Peter acted as ED, he basically did anything that needed doing
  411. Seve What ralphm said
  412. Guus ok, let's table it, to use a confusing term to Brits and Americans.
  413. ralphm :-D
  414. ralphm Noted. That leaves the Chair.
  415. ralphm It is too bad that pep. isn't here today, and I'm happy to carry this over to next week, if needed.
  416. MattJ I think we have done that previously when we didn't have full attendance
  417. ralphm However, I am willing to stand again.
  418. ralphm MattJ, right.
  419. Guus I have no idea if pep. intends to stand
  420. ralphm Ok, let's take that to next week then.
  421. Guus ok
  422. ralphm 4. ISOC's sale of PIR to Ethos
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  424. ralphm This is about the .org registry.
  425. ralphm The XSF has been a long time holder of .org domains, including jabber.org and xmpp.org.
  426. ralphm I've try to read all the discussions around it, but found it hard to take a position. At least for now.
  427. ralphm Any opinions?
  428. Guus On the one hand, I'm personally not thinking that this has the impact that some make it out to have.
  429. MattJ I haven't done extensive research into it, but I feel like I understand the issue enough - if you have followed discussions, are there particular reasons you're not keen on taking a position?
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  431. nyco if this helps: on linuxfr.org we think that the promise is broken, so we sent the email also we are considering buying several years of .org and we might consider the website name change
  432. Guus On the other hand, as it's Peter that brought this up, I'm inclined to believe that there's more to this than I now realize - and since it's Peter, I'm willing to accept that this might be a suitable topic for the XSF to speak out against.
  433. Seve I haven't been able to catch up with the topic, I'll try to do it during the weekend.
  434. ralphm I'm not sure if we have enough information to take a position on it, and what that position should be.
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  436. ralphm I haven't talked to Peter myself, but did have a chat with dwd.
  437. nyco btw, CommTeam hat on: should I include this info in the next newsletter? (that I close tomorrow)
  438. ralphm nyco, were we to decide on a statement, then yes
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  440. nyco ok
  441. Guus If we're not yet ready to take a position, we shouldn't communicate anything.
  442. Guus yet.
  443. nyco clear
  444. David Cridland FWIW, I know a number of people to some degree on the ISOC Board, and I find it hard to believe it's the clear-cut case of Evil that it's being presented as.
  445. Guus So, we kick this to next week, giving us time to read up more?
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  448. Guus Maybe start something on the mailinglist, for member feedback?
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  452. ralphm dwd crafted this piece of text which I would be willing to issue, but nothing beyond: "The XMPP Standards Foundation is a long-term holder of a ".org" domain, and has noted the comments from the community over ISOC's sale of PIR to Ethos with some concern. At this time, the information is limited, and the XSF, while refraining from any position over the matter, will continue to pay close attention to the situation as more information emerges."
  453. ralphm I don't think we have to involve the membership at this point.
  454. Guus That's very loudly saying that you're not saying anything.
  455. ralphm Yes, it says: we're paying attention
  456. Zash "We're watching you"
  457. MattJ I'm not sure I see the point, but wouldn't object to it
  458. Guus Yeah, but given that 4 out of 5 directors didn't even read up... are we (paying attention)?
  459. MattJ if others feel it's valuable
  460. Guus sorry, 3 out of 5
  461. Guus unsure what pep did.
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  466. ralphm Ok, in that case, unless we change our mind before the deadline tomorrow (on list), we can take it into next week.
  467. ralphm 5. AOB
  468. ralphm ?
  469. MattJ None here
  470. Guus none for me
  471. Seve None here
  472. ralphm 6. Date of Next
  473. ralphm Provisionally +1W.
  474. Seve +1
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  476. Guus wfm
  477. ralphm I will send a message to Board, and ask pep. if he has concerns with this timeslot.
  478. ralphm 7. Close.
  479. ralphm Thanks all!
  480. ralphm bangs gavel
  481. Seve Thank you!
  482. nyco https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/n3w9nmiegh-xsf-board-2019-11-28 please proof-read and edit
  483. Guus adieu!
  484. MattJ Thanks!
  485. krauq has joined
  486. Guus I've edited some, nyco
  487. Guus tx for taking it up
  488. Guus disappears
  489. nyco thx Guus
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  496. nyco sending the minutes
  497. nyco sent
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  506. jonas’ oh, TIL I get to be on board@
  507. jonas’ ralphm, if you’re still around, can you give me privileges in council@?
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  510. Guus jonas’ you might need Alex or MattJ for that
  511. jonas’ Guus, according to the current occupants in council@, ralphm does have owner privileges
  512. jonas’ as does Kev
  513. ralphm Oh, sure
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  526. Alex I sent all the changes to Kev after the voting. And he applied them for me. I don't have the keys to the admin interface
  527. Kev jonas’ is Council chair is he?
  528. Kev I'm out of the loop already :)
  529. Kev If so, tell me what mail address you want and I'll do it Right Now.
  530. jonas’ Kev, I am
  531. jonas’ jonas@wielicki.name
  532. jonas’ as you can find on various sources around the XSF infrastructure (if you want to confirm)
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  538. pep. ! Sorry I got stuck where I was without my computer, and my phone has been dead for a week..
  539. pep. That term is starting great :)
  540. pep. reading now
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  546. pep. Thanks anyway for everybody who pinged me, I got ~5 private messages :P
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  594. ralphm :-D
  595. ralphm No worries pep.. Sometimes life just happens.
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  598. pep. It seems I still can't add items to the board?
  599. pep. Can somebody add me? ralphm?
  600. pep. Or am I doing it wrong?
  601. pep. (it doesn't look the same as the SCAM board to me)
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  605. pep. https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2019/11/isoc-pir-ethos-capital-deal-timeline/ for a timeline. < ralphm, Guus, Seve
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  608. pep. (hint: it stinks)
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  617. MattJ Irony in linking to that source in particular: Private Internet Access just recently announced and had to defend their own acquisition
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  619. MattJ As far as I can tell the problems are all centred around things that *may* potentially happen in the future. I also don't see how ISOC are better stewards of .org if they (unanimously) want this transaction to proceed
  620. Zash Good point
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  636. debacle Too bad, I don't have any money in Ethos Capital. They are expected to increase .org prices by 10 % per year. Which is not so much, that anybody would move away from it. But it is much higher than the 3.5 % global inflation rate. .org sells at 10 USD now. In then years that will be 25.94 USD instead of 14.10 USD, 84 % higher than inflation suggests! I wasn't around when Gutenberg invented printing and now I'm out, when Ethos Capital reinvented printing money :-)
  637. debacle Too bad, I don't have any money in Ethos Capital. They are expected to increase .org prices by 10 % per year. Which is not so much, that anybody would move away from it. But it is much higher than the 3.5 % global inflation rate. .org sells at 10 USD now. In ten years that will be 25.94 USD instead of 14.10 USD, 84 % higher than inflation suggests! I wasn't around when Gutenberg invented printing and now I'm out, when Ethos Capital reinvented printing money :-)
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  641. lovetox there are 10 million registered .org domains
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  643. lovetox so they are looking at 100 million revenue
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  648. jonas’ to be fair, being domain registrar was a way of printing money from the start, wasn’t it?
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  650. Ge0rG yeah
  651. waqas How much is creating a new TLD these days? Wasn't it on the order of $100k?
  652. jonas’ 200k
  653. waqas I'm curious how much the total cost is, if you take any required infrastructure and such into account
  654. waqas 200k is well within 'moderately well paid individual' range
  655. Zash Serving the zone and managing a way to update it?
  656. waqas I'm curious if there are any requirements like you must have a registered org of at least this size, etc
  657. Zash waqas: On the registrar? Registry?
  658. Zash Oh, creating a new one?
  659. waqas Yes, like .zash
  660. !XSF_Martin Then you can have hail.zash
  661. Zash I don't have 2 MSEK to drop on that
  662. pep. Zash, you're missing the point of investments! Everybody is going to love it you have a chance to make a lot of money
  663. Zash You mean like investing some potatoes now and getting more potatoes later?
  664. pep. that
  665. lovetox .org is though one of the top TLD
  666. lovetox most country-code TLDs, will not even go into the millions
  667. lovetox for example .ru has 5.7 million domains registered
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