FWIW, I genuinely prefer that we have some companies making money in a closed-source way on top of our technologies. It means that XMPP isn't just a second-rate thing that Open Source can use because it has to - it's the first chocie for many cases.
David Cridland
edhelas, Say fippo's name three times while facing away from a mirror.
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pep.
David Cridland, I wasn't involving proprietary software in my thinking above, at all. Just that free software is doomed with NIH, or simply rewriting for educational purposes, but then it becomes semi-viable and some people start to use it and..
pep.
I think we've got enough diversity in servers
pep.
companies can rewrite their own stack if they want that's not my money
pep.
In the free software world I could get contributors instead, if people weren't rewriting their own, for example.
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Link Mauve
edhelas, since it applies to ssrc, shouldn’t it go in the XEP-0339 container?
Link Mauve
And thus no new XEP required.
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edhelas
not sure it applies to ssrc
edhelas
there's actually things for srrc
edhelas
*ssrc
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Link Mauve
Well, msid is even explicitly listed in XEP-0339 examples.
Also, given that pep. is not here - we might want to check if this day/time is still good for everyone
nyco
I'll do that :)
ralphm
Thanks nyco!
Guus
Thanks nyco
ralphm
Guus: indeed
ralphm
2. Election Results
ralphm
As we've seen, our kind Secretary announced the results of the new Board and Council. I'd like to take the opportunity to say thanks to nyco for his work on Board in the previous term!
ralphm
And welcome pep. as new Director!
Guus
+1
nyco
congrats pep.! :)
ralphm
Also, I understand that jonas’ is the new Chair of Council, and as such will liason with us, and should have been included in the Board mailing list.
Guus
_should have_ - did we check?
Guus
I'm not even sure who manages the list
Guus
iteam? secretary?
ralphm
I had a conversaion with David Cridland and he mentioned this in passing. I'm sure MattJ can verify
nyco
FYI, I'm out of the list, so someone did something
ralphm
3. Appointment of Officers
nyco
might mean the right things are done
Guus
k
ralphm
According to our bylaws, the corporation has 4 named Officers (and we didn't name others outside of the bylaws AFAIK).
David Cridland
jonas’ was duly elected Chair of the XMPP Council indeed.
MattJ
I can check after the meeting - traditionally Alex updates the lists when necessary, but I don't know if that has included updating it for the Council chair, I think that's been done by $someone on Board
ralphm
These are: Chair, Executive Director, Secretary, and Threasurer.
ralphm
Each officer shall hold office for a period of one year or until his or her successor is elected and qualified or until his or her earlier resignation or removal.
ralphm
So we should (re)appoint our Officers.
ralphm
I suggest we ask Alex and Peter if they'd like to add another year to their respective roles as Secretary and Treasurer.
Alex
I volunteer again
ralphm
Then I move Alex gets reappointed as Secretary.
ralphm
+1
Guus
+1
ralphm
(Thanks Alex!)
MattJ
+1
Seve
+1
nyco
congrats Alex for your election! :)
ralphm
Motion carries! Yay!
ralphm
I'll send out an e-mail to Peter
Guus
Can someone remind me what we did last year wrt ED?
Guus
Peter resigned. We didn't appoint anyone else.
MattJ
Waving of hands?
Guus
there was discussion.
ralphm
For Executive Director, we've had a vacancy since Peter stepped down, and the previous Board has chosen to not actively look to fill that vacancy.
Guus
I don't recall the outcome.
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ralphm
This means that in practice, the Executive Committee is just our Chair.
Guus
Do we want to put out a call for candidates?
Guus
Whch probably should come with a job description
MattJ
which we failed at last time
ralphm
The discussion last year suggested we didn't have an immediate need for this role to be filled, and I don't think that situation has changed. I'd be happy to have that discussion again, but not in this meeting, probably.
Seve
Did we have the need to fulfill the position?
MattJ
There is the description in the byelaws, and there is the reality that when Peter acted as ED, he basically did anything that needed doing
Seve
What ralphm said
Guus
ok, let's table it, to use a confusing term to Brits and Americans.
ralphm
:-D
ralphm
Noted. That leaves the Chair.
ralphm
It is too bad that pep. isn't here today, and I'm happy to carry this over to next week, if needed.
MattJ
I think we have done that previously when we didn't have full attendance
ralphm
However, I am willing to stand again.
ralphm
MattJ, right.
Guus
I have no idea if pep. intends to stand
ralphm
Ok, let's take that to next week then.
Guus
ok
ralphm
4. ISOC's sale of PIR to Ethos
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ralphm
This is about the .org registry.
ralphm
The XSF has been a long time holder of .org domains, including jabber.org and xmpp.org.
ralphm
I've try to read all the discussions around it, but found it hard to take a position. At least for now.
ralphm
Any opinions?
Guus
On the one hand, I'm personally not thinking that this has the impact that some make it out to have.
MattJ
I haven't done extensive research into it, but I feel like I understand the issue enough - if you have followed discussions, are there particular reasons you're not keen on taking a position?
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nyco
if this helps: on linuxfr.org we think that the promise is broken, so we sent the email
also we are considering buying several years of .org
and we might consider the website name change
Guus
On the other hand, as it's Peter that brought this up, I'm inclined to believe that there's more to this than I now realize - and since it's Peter, I'm willing to accept that this might be a suitable topic for the XSF to speak out against.
Seve
I haven't been able to catch up with the topic, I'll try to do it during the weekend.
ralphm
I'm not sure if we have enough information to take a position on it, and what that position should be.
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ralphm
I haven't talked to Peter myself, but did have a chat with dwd.
nyco
btw, CommTeam hat on: should I include this info in the next newsletter? (that I close tomorrow)
ralphm
nyco, were we to decide on a statement, then yes
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nyco
ok
Guus
If we're not yet ready to take a position, we shouldn't communicate anything.
Guus
yet.
nyco
clear
David Cridland
FWIW, I know a number of people to some degree on the ISOC Board, and I find it hard to believe it's the clear-cut case of Evil that it's being presented as.
Guus
So, we kick this to next week, giving us time to read up more?
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Guus
Maybe start something on the mailinglist, for member feedback?
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ralphm
dwd crafted this piece of text which I would be willing to issue, but nothing beyond:
"The XMPP Standards Foundation is a long-term holder of a ".org" domain, and has noted the comments from the community over ISOC's sale of PIR to Ethos with some concern. At this time, the information is limited, and the XSF, while refraining from any position over the matter, will continue to pay close attention to the situation as more information emerges."
ralphm
I don't think we have to involve the membership at this point.
Guus
That's very loudly saying that you're not saying anything.
ralphm
Yes, it says: we're paying attention
Zash
"We're watching you"
MattJ
I'm not sure I see the point, but wouldn't object to it
Guus
Yeah, but given that 4 out of 5 directors didn't even read up... are we (paying attention)?
MattJ
if others feel it's valuable
Guus
sorry, 3 out of 5
Guus
unsure what pep did.
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ralphm
Ok, in that case, unless we change our mind before the deadline tomorrow (on list), we can take it into next week.
ralphm
5. AOB
ralphm
?
MattJ
None here
Guus
none for me
Seve
None here
ralphm
6. Date of Next
ralphm
Provisionally +1W.
Seve
+1
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Guus
wfm
ralphm
I will send a message to Board, and ask pep. if he has concerns with this timeslot.
ralphm
7. Close.
ralphm
Thanks all!
ralphmbangs gavel
Seve
Thank you!
nyco
https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/n3w9nmiegh-xsf-board-2019-11-28
please proof-read and edit
Guus
adieu!
MattJ
Thanks!
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Guus
I've edited some, nyco
Guus
tx for taking it up
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nyco
thx Guus
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nyco
sending the minutes
nyco
sent
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jonas’
oh, TIL I get to be on board@
jonas’
ralphm, if you’re still around, can you give me privileges in council@?
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Guus
jonas’ you might need Alex or MattJ for that
jonas’
Guus, according to the current occupants in council@, ralphm does have owner privileges
jonas’
as does Kev
ralphm
Oh, sure
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Alex
I sent all the changes to Kev after the voting. And he applied them for me. I don't have the keys to the admin interface
Kev
jonas’ is Council chair is he?
Kev
I'm out of the loop already :)
Kev
If so, tell me what mail address you want and I'll do it Right Now.
jonas’
Kev, I am
jonas’
jonas@wielicki.name
jonas’
as you can find on various sources around the XSF infrastructure (if you want to confirm)
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pep.
! Sorry I got stuck where I was without my computer, and my phone has been dead for a week..
pep.
That term is starting great :)
pep.reading now
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pep.
Thanks anyway for everybody who pinged me, I got ~5 private messages :P
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ralphm
:-D
ralphm
No worries pep.. Sometimes life just happens.
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pep.
It seems I still can't add items to the board?
pep.
Can somebody add me? ralphm?
pep.
Or am I doing it wrong?
pep.
(it doesn't look the same as the SCAM board to me)
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pep.
https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2019/11/isoc-pir-ethos-capital-deal-timeline/ for a timeline. < ralphm, Guus, Seve
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pep.
(hint: it stinks)
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MattJ
Irony in linking to that source in particular: Private Internet Access just recently announced and had to defend their own acquisition
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MattJ
As far as I can tell the problems are all centred around things that *may* potentially happen in the future. I also don't see how ISOC are better stewards of .org if they (unanimously) want this transaction to proceed
Zash
Good point
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debacle
Too bad, I don't have any money in Ethos Capital. They are expected to increase .org prices by 10 % per year. Which is not so much, that anybody would move away from it. But it is much higher than the 3.5 % global inflation rate. .org sells at 10 USD now. In then years that will be 25.94 USD instead of 14.10 USD, 84 % higher than inflation suggests! I wasn't around when Gutenberg invented printing and now I'm out, when Ethos Capital reinvented printing money :-)✎
debacle
Too bad, I don't have any money in Ethos Capital. They are expected to increase .org prices by 10 % per year. Which is not so much, that anybody would move away from it. But it is much higher than the 3.5 % global inflation rate. .org sells at 10 USD now. In ten years that will be 25.94 USD instead of 14.10 USD, 84 % higher than inflation suggests! I wasn't around when Gutenberg invented printing and now I'm out, when Ethos Capital reinvented printing money :-) ✏
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lovetox
there are 10 million registered .org domains
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lovetox
so they are looking at 100 million revenue
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jonas’
to be fair, being domain registrar was a way of printing money from the start, wasn’t it?
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Ge0rG
yeah
waqas
How much is creating a new TLD these days? Wasn't it on the order of $100k?
jonas’
200k
waqas
I'm curious how much the total cost is, if you take any required infrastructure and such into account
waqas
200k is well within 'moderately well paid individual' range
Zash
Serving the zone and managing a way to update it?
waqas
I'm curious if there are any requirements like you must have a registered org of at least this size, etc
Zash
waqas: On the registrar? Registry?
Zash
Oh, creating a new one?
waqas
Yes, like .zash
!XSF_Martin
Then you can have hail.zash
Zash
I don't have 2 MSEK to drop on that
pep.
Zash, you're missing the point of investments! Everybody is going to love it you have a chance to make a lot of money
Zash
You mean like investing some potatoes now and getting more potatoes later?
pep.
that
lovetox
.org is though one of the top TLD
lovetox
most country-code TLDs, will not even go into the millions
lovetox
for example .ru has 5.7 million domains registered