David CridlandFWIW, I genuinely prefer that we have some companies making money in a closed-source way on top of our technologies. It means that XMPP isn't just a second-rate thing that Open Source can use because it has to - it's the first chocie for many cases.
David Cridlandedhelas, Say fippo's name three times while facing away from a mirror.
pep.David Cridland, I wasn't involving proprietary software in my thinking above, at all. Just that free software is doomed with NIH, or simply rewriting for educational purposes, but then it becomes semi-viable and some people start to use it and..
pep.I think we've got enough diversity in servers
pep.companies can rewrite their own stack if they want that's not my money
pep.In the free software world I could get contributors instead, if people weren't rewriting their own, for example.
Link Mauveedhelas, since it applies to ssrc, shouldn’t it go in the XEP-0339 container?
Link MauveAnd thus no new XEP required.
edhelasnot sure it applies to ssrc
edhelasthere's actually things for srrc
Link MauveWell, msid is even explicitly listed in XEP-0339 examples.
GuusAlso, given that pep. is not here - we might want to check if this day/time is still good for everyone
nycoI'll do that :)
ralphm2. Election Results
ralphmAs we've seen, our kind Secretary announced the results of the new Board and Council. I'd like to take the opportunity to say thanks to nyco for his work on Board in the previous term!
ralphmAnd welcome pep. as new Director!
nycocongrats pep.! :)
ralphmAlso, I understand that jonas’ is the new Chair of Council, and as such will liason with us, and should have been included in the Board mailing list.
Guus_should have_ - did we check?
GuusI'm not even sure who manages the list
ralphmI had a conversaion with David Cridland and he mentioned this in passing. I'm sure MattJ can verify
nycoFYI, I'm out of the list, so someone did something
ralphm3. Appointment of Officers
nycomight mean the right things are done
ralphmAccording to our bylaws, the corporation has 4 named Officers (and we didn't name others outside of the bylaws AFAIK).
David Cridlandjonas’ was duly elected Chair of the XMPP Council indeed.
MattJI can check after the meeting - traditionally Alex updates the lists when necessary, but I don't know if that has included updating it for the Council chair, I think that's been done by $someone on Board
ralphmThese are: Chair, Executive Director, Secretary, and Threasurer.
ralphmEach officer shall hold office for a period of one year or until his or her successor is elected and qualified or until his or her earlier resignation or removal.
ralphmSo we should (re)appoint our Officers.
ralphmI suggest we ask Alex and Peter if they'd like to add another year to their respective roles as Secretary and Treasurer.
AlexI volunteer again
ralphmThen I move Alex gets reappointed as Secretary.
nycocongrats Alex for your election! :)
ralphmMotion carries! Yay!
ralphmI'll send out an e-mail to Peter
GuusCan someone remind me what we did last year wrt ED?
GuusPeter resigned. We didn't appoint anyone else.
MattJWaving of hands?
Guusthere was discussion.
ralphmFor Executive Director, we've had a vacancy since Peter stepped down, and the previous Board has chosen to not actively look to fill that vacancy.
GuusI don't recall the outcome.
ralphmThis means that in practice, the Executive Committee is just our Chair.
GuusDo we want to put out a call for candidates?
GuusWhch probably should come with a job description
MattJwhich we failed at last time
ralphmThe discussion last year suggested we didn't have an immediate need for this role to be filled, and I don't think that situation has changed. I'd be happy to have that discussion again, but not in this meeting, probably.
SeveDid we have the need to fulfill the position?
MattJThere is the description in the byelaws, and there is the reality that when Peter acted as ED, he basically did anything that needed doing
SeveWhat ralphm said
Guusok, let's table it, to use a confusing term to Brits and Americans.
ralphmNoted. That leaves the Chair.
ralphmIt is too bad that pep. isn't here today, and I'm happy to carry this over to next week, if needed.
MattJI think we have done that previously when we didn't have full attendance
ralphmHowever, I am willing to stand again.
GuusI have no idea if pep. intends to stand
ralphmOk, let's take that to next week then.
ralphm4. ISOC's sale of PIR to Ethos
ralphmThis is about the .org registry.
ralphmThe XSF has been a long time holder of .org domains, including jabber.org and xmpp.org.
ralphmI've try to read all the discussions around it, but found it hard to take a position. At least for now.
GuusOn the one hand, I'm personally not thinking that this has the impact that some make it out to have.
MattJI haven't done extensive research into it, but I feel like I understand the issue enough - if you have followed discussions, are there particular reasons you're not keen on taking a position?
nycoif this helps: on linuxfr.org we think that the promise is broken, so we sent the email
also we are considering buying several years of .org
and we might consider the website name change
GuusOn the other hand, as it's Peter that brought this up, I'm inclined to believe that there's more to this than I now realize - and since it's Peter, I'm willing to accept that this might be a suitable topic for the XSF to speak out against.
SeveI haven't been able to catch up with the topic, I'll try to do it during the weekend.
ralphmI'm not sure if we have enough information to take a position on it, and what that position should be.
ralphmI haven't talked to Peter myself, but did have a chat with dwd.
nycobtw, CommTeam hat on: should I include this info in the next newsletter? (that I close tomorrow)
ralphmnyco, were we to decide on a statement, then yes
GuusIf we're not yet ready to take a position, we shouldn't communicate anything.
David CridlandFWIW, I know a number of people to some degree on the ISOC Board, and I find it hard to believe it's the clear-cut case of Evil that it's being presented as.
GuusSo, we kick this to next week, giving us time to read up more?
GuusMaybe start something on the mailinglist, for member feedback?
ralphmdwd crafted this piece of text which I would be willing to issue, but nothing beyond:
"The XMPP Standards Foundation is a long-term holder of a ".org" domain, and has noted the comments from the community over ISOC's sale of PIR to Ethos with some concern. At this time, the information is limited, and the XSF, while refraining from any position over the matter, will continue to pay close attention to the situation as more information emerges."
ralphmI don't think we have to involve the membership at this point.
GuusThat's very loudly saying that you're not saying anything.
ralphmYes, it says: we're paying attention
Zash"We're watching you"
MattJI'm not sure I see the point, but wouldn't object to it
GuusYeah, but given that 4 out of 5 directors didn't even read up... are we (paying attention)?
MattJif others feel it's valuable
Guussorry, 3 out of 5
Guusunsure what pep did.
ralphmOk, in that case, unless we change our mind before the deadline tomorrow (on list), we can take it into next week.
Guusnone for me
ralphm6. Date of Next
ralphmI will send a message to Board, and ask pep. if he has concerns with this timeslot.
please proof-read and edit
GuusI've edited some, nyco
Guustx for taking it up
nycosending the minutes
jonas’oh, TIL I get to be on board@
jonas’ralphm, if you’re still around, can you give me privileges in council@?
Guusjonas’ you might need Alex or MattJ for that
jonas’Guus, according to the current occupants in council@, ralphm does have owner privileges
jonas’as does Kev
AlexI sent all the changes to Kev after the voting. And he applied them for me. I don't have the keys to the admin interface
Kevjonas’ is Council chair is he?
KevI'm out of the loop already :)
KevIf so, tell me what mail address you want and I'll do it Right Now.
jonas’Kev, I am
jonas’as you can find on various sources around the XSF infrastructure (if you want to confirm)
pep.! Sorry I got stuck where I was without my computer, and my phone has been dead for a week..
pep.That term is starting great :)
pep.Thanks anyway for everybody who pinged me, I got ~5 private messages :P
ralphmNo worries pep.. Sometimes life just happens.
pep.It seems I still can't add items to the board?
pep.Can somebody add me? ralphm?
pep.Or am I doing it wrong?
pep.(it doesn't look the same as the SCAM board to me)
Steve Killehas left
pep.https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2019/11/isoc-pir-ethos-capital-deal-timeline/ for a timeline. < ralphm, Guus, Seve
pep.(hint: it stinks)
Steve Killehas joined
MattJIrony in linking to that source in particular: Private Internet Access just recently announced and had to defend their own acquisition
MattJAs far as I can tell the problems are all centred around things that *may* potentially happen in the future. I also don't see how ISOC are better stewards of .org if they (unanimously) want this transaction to proceed
debacleToo bad, I don't have any money in Ethos Capital. They are expected to increase .org prices by 10 % per year. Which is not so much, that anybody would move away from it. But it is much higher than the 3.5 % global inflation rate. .org sells at 10 USD now. In then years that will be 25.94 USD instead of 14.10 USD, 84 % higher than inflation suggests! I wasn't around when Gutenberg invented printing and now I'm out, when Ethos Capital reinvented printing money :-)
debacleToo bad, I don't have any money in Ethos Capital. They are expected to increase .org prices by 10 % per year. Which is not so much, that anybody would move away from it. But it is much higher than the 3.5 % global inflation rate. .org sells at 10 USD now. In ten years that will be 25.94 USD instead of 14.10 USD, 84 % higher than inflation suggests! I wasn't around when Gutenberg invented printing and now I'm out, when Ethos Capital reinvented printing money :-)
lovetoxthere are 10 million registered .org domains
lovetoxso they are looking at 100 million revenue
jonas’to be fair, being domain registrar was a way of printing money from the start, wasn’t it?
waqasHow much is creating a new TLD these days? Wasn't it on the order of $100k?
waqasI'm curious how much the total cost is, if you take any required infrastructure and such into account
waqas200k is well within 'moderately well paid individual' range
ZashServing the zone and managing a way to update it?
waqasI'm curious if there are any requirements like you must have a registered org of at least this size, etc
Zashwaqas: On the registrar? Registry?
ZashOh, creating a new one?
waqasYes, like .zash
!XSF_MartinThen you can have hail.zash
ZashI don't have 2 MSEK to drop on that
pep.Zash, you're missing the point of investments! Everybody is going to love it you have a chance to make a lot of money
ZashYou mean like investing some potatoes now and getting more potatoes later?
lovetox.org is though one of the top TLD
lovetoxmost country-code TLDs, will not even go into the millions
lovetoxfor example .ru has 5.7 million domains registered