XSF Discussion - 2019-11-28

pep., Youd prefer a closed source one?

small question regarding SDP => Jingle mapping, there's actually nothing to map a=msid: and a=msid-semantic: ?

it's webrtc related things http://www.rtcbits.com/2014/04/what-does-msid-attribute-in-sdp-mean.html

https://community.jitsi.org/t/jitsi-dev-msid-semantic-missing-from-first-offer-in-jitsi-meet/11577

so it seems that's it not mandatory 🤔

David Cridland, ha ha.

FWIW, I genuinely prefer that we have some companies making money in a closed-source way on top of our technologies. It means that XMPP isn't just a second-rate thing that Open Source can use because it has to - it's the first chocie for many cases.

edhelas, Say fippo's name three times while facing away from a mirror.

David Cridland, I wasn't involving proprietary software in my thinking above, at all. Just that free software is doomed with NIH, or simply rewriting for educational purposes, but then it becomes semi-viable and some people start to use it and..

I think we've got enough diversity in servers

companies can rewrite their own stack if they want that's not my money

In the free software world I could get contributors instead, if people weren't rewriting their own, for example.

edhelas, since it applies to ssrc, shouldn’t it go in the XEP-0339 container?

And thus no new XEP required.

not sure it applies to ssrc

there's actually things for srrc

*ssrc

Well, msid is even explicitly listed in XEP-0339 examples.

a=msid:{ea3e91c3-c926-4c81-a44d-ca55607404bb} != a=ssrc:1656081975 msid:MLTJKIHilGn71fNQoszkQ4jlPTuS5vJyKVIv MLTJKIHilGn71fNQoszkQ4jlPTuS5vJyKVIva0

no ?

Unless I've missed a scheduling thingy, it's about time for the first meeting of the new Board?

clockwork!

0. Welcome + Agenda

o/

Welcome new Board! And anyone from the floor!

Who do we have today?

o/

MattJ, pep. ?

o/

pep. ?

(additional notification thingy attached)

Hope that pep. will join us soonish.

In any case, my primary point is the appointment of the Officers of the Corporation.

I have nothing to add - Peter suggested we'd look into the savedotorg.org thingy (which I added to Trello)

Right!

1. Minute taker

https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/n3w9nmiegh-xsf-board-2019-11-28

Also, given that pep. is not here - we might want to check if this day/time is still good for everyone

I'll do that :)

Thanks nyco!

Thanks nyco

Guus: indeed

2. Election Results

As we've seen, our kind Secretary announced the results of the new Board and Council. I'd like to take the opportunity to say thanks to nyco for his work on Board in the previous term!

And welcome pep. as new Director!

+1

congrats pep.! :)

Also, I understand that jonas’ is the new Chair of Council, and as such will liason with us, and should have been included in the Board mailing list.

_should have_ - did we check?

I'm not even sure who manages the list

iteam? secretary?

I had a conversaion with David Cridland and he mentioned this in passing. I'm sure MattJ can verify

FYI, I'm out of the list, so someone did something

3. Appointment of Officers

might mean the right things are done

k

According to our bylaws, the corporation has 4 named Officers (and we didn't name others outside of the bylaws AFAIK).

jonas’ was duly elected Chair of the XMPP Council indeed.

I can check after the meeting - traditionally Alex updates the lists when necessary, but I don't know if that has included updating it for the Council chair, I think that's been done by $someone on Board

These are: Chair, Executive Director, Secretary, and Threasurer.

Each officer shall hold office for a period of one year or until his or her successor is elected and qualified or until his or her earlier resignation or removal.

So we should (re)appoint our Officers.

I suggest we ask Alex and Peter if they'd like to add another year to their respective roles as Secretary and Treasurer.

I volunteer again

Then I move Alex gets reappointed as Secretary.

+1

+1

(Thanks Alex!)

+1

+1

congrats Alex for your election! :)

Motion carries! Yay!

I'll send out an e-mail to Peter

Can someone remind me what we did last year wrt ED?

Peter resigned. We didn't appoint anyone else.

Waving of hands?

there was discussion.

For Executive Director, we've had a vacancy since Peter stepped down, and the previous Board has chosen to not actively look to fill that vacancy.

I don't recall the outcome.

This means that in practice, the Executive Committee is just our Chair.

Do we want to put out a call for candidates?

Whch probably should come with a job description

which we failed at last time

The discussion last year suggested we didn't have an immediate need for this role to be filled, and I don't think that situation has changed. I'd be happy to have that discussion again, but not in this meeting, probably.

Did we have the need to fulfill the position?

There is the description in the byelaws, and there is the reality that when Peter acted as ED, he basically did anything that needed doing

What ralphm said

ok, let's table it, to use a confusing term to Brits and Americans.

:-D

Noted. That leaves the Chair.

It is too bad that pep. isn't here today, and I'm happy to carry this over to next week, if needed.

I think we have done that previously when we didn't have full attendance

However, I am willing to stand again.

MattJ, right.

I have no idea if pep. intends to stand

Ok, let's take that to next week then.

ok

4. ISOC's sale of PIR to Ethos

This is about the .org registry.

The XSF has been a long time holder of .org domains, including jabber.org and xmpp.org.

I've try to read all the discussions around it, but found it hard to take a position. At least for now.

Any opinions?

On the one hand, I'm personally not thinking that this has the impact that some make it out to have.

I haven't done extensive research into it, but I feel like I understand the issue enough - if you have followed discussions, are there particular reasons you're not keen on taking a position?

if this helps: on linuxfr.org we think that the promise is broken, so we sent the email also we are considering buying several years of .org and we might consider the website name change

On the other hand, as it's Peter that brought this up, I'm inclined to believe that there's more to this than I now realize - and since it's Peter, I'm willing to accept that this might be a suitable topic for the XSF to speak out against.

I haven't been able to catch up with the topic, I'll try to do it during the weekend.

I'm not sure if we have enough information to take a position on it, and what that position should be.

I haven't talked to Peter myself, but did have a chat with dwd.

btw, CommTeam hat on: should I include this info in the next newsletter? (that I close tomorrow)

nyco, were we to decide on a statement, then yes

ok

If we're not yet ready to take a position, we shouldn't communicate anything.

yet.

clear

FWIW, I know a number of people to some degree on the ISOC Board, and I find it hard to believe it's the clear-cut case of Evil that it's being presented as.

So, we kick this to next week, giving us time to read up more?

Maybe start something on the mailinglist, for member feedback?

dwd crafted this piece of text which I would be willing to issue, but nothing beyond: "The XMPP Standards Foundation is a long-term holder of a ".org" domain, and has noted the comments from the community over ISOC's sale of PIR to Ethos with some concern. At this time, the information is limited, and the XSF, while refraining from any position over the matter, will continue to pay close attention to the situation as more information emerges."

I don't think we have to involve the membership at this point.

That's very loudly saying that you're not saying anything.

Yes, it says: we're paying attention

"We're watching you"

I'm not sure I see the point, but wouldn't object to it

Yeah, but given that 4 out of 5 directors didn't even read up... are we (paying attention)?

if others feel it's valuable

sorry, 3 out of 5

unsure what pep did.

Ok, in that case, unless we change our mind before the deadline tomorrow (on list), we can take it into next week.

5. AOB

?

None here

none for me

None here

6. Date of Next

Provisionally +1W.

+1

wfm

I will send a message to Board, and ask pep. if he has concerns with this timeslot.

7. Close.

Thanks all!

Thank you!

https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/n3w9nmiegh-xsf-board-2019-11-28 please proof-read and edit

adieu!

Thanks!

I've edited some, nyco

tx for taking it up

thx Guus

sending the minutes

sent

oh, TIL I get to be on board@

ralphm, if you’re still around, can you give me privileges in council@?

jonas’ you might need Alex or MattJ for that

Guus, according to the current occupants in council@, ralphm does have owner privileges

as does Kev

Oh, sure

I sent all the changes to Kev after the voting. And he applied them for me. I don't have the keys to the admin interface

jonas’ is Council chair is he?

I'm out of the loop already :)

If so, tell me what mail address you want and I'll do it Right Now.

Kev, I am

jonas@wielicki.name

as you can find on various sources around the XSF infrastructure (if you want to confirm)

! Sorry I got stuck where I was without my computer, and my phone has been dead for a week..

That term is starting great :)

Thanks anyway for everybody who pinged me, I got ~5 private messages :P

:-D

No worries pep.. Sometimes life just happens.

It seems I still can't add items to the board?

Can somebody add me? ralphm?

Or am I doing it wrong?

(it doesn't look the same as the SCAM board to me)

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2019/11/isoc-pir-ethos-capital-deal-timeline/ for a timeline. < ralphm, Guus, Seve

(hint: it stinks)

Irony in linking to that source in particular: Private Internet Access just recently announced and had to defend their own acquisition

As far as I can tell the problems are all centred around things that *may* potentially happen in the future. I also don't see how ISOC are better stewards of .org if they (unanimously) want this transaction to proceed

Good point

Too bad, I don't have any money in Ethos Capital. They are expected to increase .org prices by 10 % per year. Which is not so much, that anybody would move away from it. But it is much higher than the 3.5 % global inflation rate. .org sells at 10 USD now. In ten years that will be 25.94 USD instead of 14.10 USD, 84 % higher than inflation suggests! I wasn't around when Gutenberg invented printing and now I'm out, when Ethos Capital reinvented printing money :-) ✏

there are 10 million registered .org domains

so they are looking at 100 million revenue

to be fair, being domain registrar was a way of printing money from the start, wasn’t it?

yeah

How much is creating a new TLD these days? Wasn't it on the order of $100k?

200k

I'm curious how much the total cost is, if you take any required infrastructure and such into account

200k is well within 'moderately well paid individual' range

Serving the zone and managing a way to update it?

I'm curious if there are any requirements like you must have a registered org of at least this size, etc

waqas: On the registrar? Registry?

Oh, creating a new one?

Yes, like .zash

Then you can have hail.zash

I don't have 2 MSEK to drop on that

Zash, you're missing the point of investments! Everybody is going to love it you have a chance to make a lot of money

You mean like investing some potatoes now and getting more potatoes later?

that

.org is though one of the top TLD

most country-code TLDs, will not even go into the millions

for example .ru has 5.7 million domains registered