XSF Discussion - 2019-12-03

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  137. edhelas yes, this allows me to properly setup the popup window and negociate the jingle call after that
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  174. nyco is our wiki down? or it is just me...
  175. nyco it's back...
  176. nyco there has been a very high delay on xmpp.org and jabber.org... for me
  177. jonas’ yeah, it’s been flapping here, too
  178. Zash Oh I thought my s2s was broken just now
  179. Ge0rG I just had IPv6 issues, it seems
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  182. nyco ok... hey do we have some monitoring on our infra?
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  185. MattJ We don't
  186. Neustradamus has left
  187. nyco I guess we should... should we put such an item somewhere close to the top of the task list of the iTeam? I mean no harrassment
  188. MattJ It's somewhere below "First draw up a list of what servers and services we are running"
  189. nyco ok, thx :) May The Force Be With You
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  192. MattJ Speaking of iteam, I'm updating Github permissions as we discussed in one of the recent board meetings
  193. MattJ Anyone who doesn't have access to something they think they ought to have access to, feel free to poke me and I'll investigate
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  195. Zash Who should have access to what?
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  199. MattJ The main change is that there is a (hidden, iirc) "Web" team
  200. MattJ which has a bunch of people in it
  201. MattJ All the people who are actually doing stuff are already in teams that already have access to the relevant repos
  202. MattJ So the goal is to simplify Github permissions so they align with XSF team membership
  203. MattJ which will make it easier to see and manage who has access to what
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  205. MattJ to clarify what I wrote above - the "Web" team exists, but is being removed in favour of more well-defined teams
  206. pep. :)
  207. MattJ Link Mauve is popping up a lot
  208. MattJ Are you actually in any formal teams?
  209. Neustradamus has joined
  210. pep. I don't think he is
  211. MattJ There is a team called "xep build" with literally just Link Mauve in it
  212. pep. :D
  213. pep. He just helps a lot
  214. pep. But I don't think he's got any commit rights
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  216. pep. (or should have by the definition above)
  217. MattJ "xep build" has read access to xep-docker-base (but read access is already default for all org members), and write access to xsf/xeps
  218. pep. oh
  219. pep. Maybe he should "just" become an editor
  220. MattJ Well, as per the discussion, this team is going - and if someone tells me Link Mauve has become an editor, then he can be added to that team
  221. MattJ But like all MUCs, he seems to be in them all anyway somehow
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  223. pep. MattJ, sure, let that team go :)
  224. MattJ Done already
  225. pep. k
  226. pep. Link Mauve, ^ you know what you have to do now
  227. pep. (apply to all the teams \o/)
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  231. MattJ We have two Github org members who don't appear to be actual XSF members (now) - Matt Miller and Sam Whited
  232. MattJ Both are in the Editors team on Github
  233. Kev The Editors team can only be members, IIRC (don't take my word for it), so I think they've naturally fallen off.
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  235. MattJ Agreed
  236. MattJ Hmm, seems there's one more that shouldn't be there according to a count...
  237. MattJ does a mental diff
  238. MattJ Guus is not listed here: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/editor-team.html
  239. Guus I'm not an editor
  240. MattJ Yet is on the Editors team on Github
  241. MattJ Ok
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  246. MattJ Ok, done
  247. MattJ Now we have two Github members without teams: Alex and Link Mauve
  248. MattJ Would be good to figure out what Alex needs access to
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  250. pep. We can have a secretary team I guess if necessary. What does the secretary have to edit? xsf/xmpp.org? (I wish we could have finer grained permissions in repos)
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  253. MattJ You can have individual permissions (in fact that's what Alex has for xmpp.org)
  254. Alex I usually only edit content
  255. pep. MattJ, yeah but if/when Alex leaves the position, then we're going to have to go through that again, whereas we could just swap people in a team ("role") otherwise
  256. Zash MattJ: Am I in iteam?
  257. MattJ Yep, I'll create a team
  258. Alex have plans to move memberbot to our Github org when thzere are no concerns. Lance archived it on Github https://github.com/legastero/memberbot
  259. MattJ Zash, in the team yes, in Github I can check
  260. Guus > have plans to move memberbot to our Github org when thzere are no concerns. Seems sensible
  261. pep. Agreed
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  265. MattJ Ok, pretty much done
  266. MattJ There is one more team I would like to solve, there is one called "Core" that just seems to map to a handful of arbitrary trusted people
  267. MattJ It seems that should be replaced by org admins and/or iteam
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  269. Guus Sounds good, MattJ
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  271. pep. admins?
  272. Guus I just got an email notification after being kicked out of a team
  273. Kev Core can probably go, I guess. Most people in there are org admins.
  274. Kev Owners, rather.
  275. ralphm With Alex being an Officer, maybe you can create a team for officers, and put Peter in it, too.
  276. pep. Kev, should they though
  277. Guus so people that are worried about loosing access have a chance to complain
  278. Kev Actually, all people, by the look of it?
  279. Kev pep.: And yes, I'd arbitrarily claim that all the people who're org owners are sensible to be org owners.
  280. MattJ Kev, yep, looks like all Core members are org owners... I'll remove it
  281. pep. Kev, I don't even know who is org owner
  282. pep. Ah I can see it, cool
  283. pep. I disagree
  284. pep. hmm ok intosi and stpeter are also in iteam
  285. Kev With the exception of Ralph, it's a subset of iteam selected by the (then-)iteam lead.
  286. jonas’ Guus, didn’t you leave iteam?
  287. Guus I did
  288. MattJ Yeah, I'd say all Board + iteam are candidates
  289. pep. I was wondering
  290. Kev I thought Guus had removed his sudo, but was still on iteam.
  291. pep. MattJ, tbh I'd vote for board not to be owners, iteam is good enough
  292. Kev I'd be happy with it being an iteam subset, selected by the iteam lead. Same as who gets sudo on boxen.
  293. Guus let's not have half-members of teams - that's just complexity that we can do without 🙂
  294. Kev (I don't mean it's the same list of people, I mean it's the same 'iteam lead gets to make sensible iteam decisions')
  295. Kev Matt might reasonably disagree with me on who a sensible subset of iteam are, naturally :)
  296. ralphm I think the team, whatever its name (Core, Owners), is good as it is.
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  298. MattJ It's gone :)
  299. ralphm or "the set of people that are owners"
  300. MattJ It was unnecessary and confused thing. The only thing up for debate right now is who should in the owner list of the Github org
  301. MattJ *confused things
  302. ralphm As I said, it seems fine to me like this.
  303. MattJ Same here, especially since I've run out of any more time to spend on this today
  304. ralphm yay
  305. ralphm Thanks for looking into it.
  306. Kev And, regardless, I think Matt gets to make the call.
  307. ralphm yes
  308. MattJ But now we only have Github teams that are actual XSF teams (or roles), and the only members of those teams are people who are officially members of those XSF teams
  309. ralphm and so does Board, by the way, as we discussed a few meetings ago
  310. Guus 👍
  311. Kev Board shouldn't be interfering in iteam.
  312. ralphm right
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  342. nyco if anyone wants to engage: https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/103243542343931019
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  462. nyco Newsletter sent PR merged for the blog post: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/660
  463. nyco thx for the rights to merge
  464. nyco now should I do anything else to deploy?
  465. Zash Doesn't The Cloud do that automagically?
  466. jubalh has joined
  467. pep. nyco, CI should take care of it
  468. nyco then: > now should I do anything else to deploy? 1. Wait
  469. nyco thx
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  473. nyco aaaand the wait has been... long! https://xmpp.org/2019/12/newsletter-03-december/
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  484. lskdjf ARGH! there's a article in the newsletter that advertises to install dino from snap. That's a terrible idea, the snap is 3 years old and isn't maintained 😢
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  490. jonas’ hm, my agenda announcement is stuck in the council@ queue. can someone please check which of my addresess is listed as being allowed to send to there?
  491. jonas’ last council mail I received went to teh address I used to send the agenda
  492. Ge0rG jonas’: standards@ has passed through, so it's probably not too bad.
  493. Ge0rG jonas’: I'm most probably going to miss tomorrow
  494. Zash jonas’, I seem to have received it
  495. jonas’ Zash, I sent to both standards@ and council@
  496. jonas’ so you probably got it via standards@
  497. Zash Oh, yeah
  498. jonas’ Ge0rG, noted, thanks
  499. jonas’ Ge0rG, although it’s a pity because there seems to be plenty time for your stack of AOB
  500. Ge0rG jonas’: I'm unprepared and I forgot most.
  501. jonas’ I bet we could find them in logs ;)
  502. Ge0rG jonas’: also apparently Council is not there to do guidance on how the standard should evolve, but merely for voting on submissions
  503. jonas’ "apparently"?
  504. Ge0rG jonas’: what about calling up https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-August/036332.html for discussion tomorrow, then?
  505. Zash Doesn't mean you can't do stuff
  506. Ge0rG I can't do stuff
  507. Zash Council status doesn't stop you
  508. Zash Neither does lack of council
  509. Ge0rG I'm blocked on my own segregation of duties issue.
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  541. Dele (Mobile) I am doing some cleanup of old code in Openfire and wanted to get a feel of who else in the XSF community is still supporting XEP-0136: Message Archiving and older versions of XEP-0313: Message Archive Management. Is there anyone supporting an xmpp server or client that still handles the urn:xmpp:archive, urn:xmpp:mam:1 and urn:xmpp:mam:0 namespace?
  542. Zash Prosody only includes MAM :2 out of the box.
  543. Zash The there existed a community module for XEP-0136 but it was removed long ago.
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  546. Holger ejabberd supports them all out of the box. But isn't the real question whether there are still many clients in the wild not doing :2?
  547. Ge0rG Holger: could you measure that on your deployment?
  548. Holger Well, not without touching the code …
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  551. Zash How fast does the XMPP world move?
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  554. Holger I would think there should be quite some incentive for client devs to go for :2 as dedup is such a PITA without stanza IDs …
  555. Holger But no idea about the implementation status.
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  558. Dele (Mobile) Thanks for the quick response. I was going to remove support for xep-136 and keep only mam:2 🙂
  559. mukt2 has left
  560. Holger Er yes ejabberd doesn't do 0136 anymore either. Just the older MAM versions.
  561. Holger I think Vacuum IM does 0136 …
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  564. wurstsalat https://stats.jabberfr.org/d/000000002/jabberfr?orgId=1&fullscreen&panelId=39 lists client features fyi
  565. Zash Do clients advertise MAM tho?
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  567. wurstsalat mam:1 and mam:2 are listed there at least
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  570. Zash It's been 3 years.
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  572. Zash I would imagine there be more support requests than there are if mam:1 was something people needed. There were some long ago tho.
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  575. lovetox if you implement mam:2
  576. lovetox you can just announce mam:1 aswell
  577. lovetox its a subset
  578. lovetox the only difference is guaranteed stanza-id on mam:2
  579. lovetox dont implement 0
  580. lovetox because its different protocol wise
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  682. edhelas I can run some statistics in the CAPS that I store in Movim
  683. edhelas But on my side I only support :1 and :2 I think
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