XSF Discussion - 2019-12-10

  1. Neustradamus

    pep.: The repository has been archived several years ago. We have already talked to add the code in /xsf/ GitHub.

  2. pep.

    Neustradamus, then open an issue asking for this instead?

  3. pep.

    "The XSF memberbot source code is always missing" what does that even mean

  4. Neustradamus

    The ticket is here, you have closed it ;)

  5. pep.

    "Could somebody fork the original memberbot repo under the xsf umbrella?" < here take it, that's for you

  6. pep.

    (read: you can open an issue with this)

  7. Neustradamus

    Only for you: "The XSF memberbot source code is always missing (in this XSF GitHub)"

  8. Neustradamus

    Yes I have already forked for a solution about the next ticket, I wait XSF repository to create a PR.

  9. Neustradamus

    And it is already sent to Alex for a test.

  10. Guus

    GSoC 2020 has been announced! We want in?

  11. dwd

    Zash, Yes, I think Bind2 could be done within SASL2. But equally, I see no reason to change the semantics of Bind in order to get the syntax.

  12. Zash

    dwd: I've been thinking about per device passwords, passing some device id early would help there

  13. Ge0rG

    Zash: isn't it sufficient to have the per-device-password as a device id?

  14. Zash

    Ge0rG: Can't do some SASL mechanisms without knowing what to test against first

  15. Ge0rG

    Zash: no way to test against all?

  16. Zash

    With SCRAM? I didn't see how

  17. Ge0rG

    have a shared salt on all passwords?

  18. dwd


  19. Ge0rG

    I'm the last one to oppose a working per-device-password mechanism, just asking questions

  20. dwd

    Zash, Per-device passwords should be easy enough unless you want to use an existing SASL mechanism.

  21. Zash

    Or hijack authzid

  22. Ge0rG

    dwd: with the advent of new SASL mechanisms in the last decade of XMPP, there might be a slight incentive to make it work with the existing ones

  23. dwd

    I get the pragmatic concerns, but mutilating stuff isn't going to make me any happier.

  24. Ge0rG

    dwd: I didn't notice the moment when the goal of protocol design became to make you happier ;)

  25. MattJ


  26. dwd

    Ge0rG, That moment was the Council election results. ;)

  27. Guus

    > I get the pragmatic concerns, but mutilating stuff isn't going to make me any happier. T-Shirt waiting to happen

  28. Ge0rG

    too much text for a t-shirt :(

  29. Kev

    GSoC 2020's been announced, applications in January, in case no-one's mentioned it yet.

  30. MattJ

    Yeah, Guus did

  31. Kev

    Fab. About 4 weeks until applications.

  32. jonas’

    anyome from Jitsi Meet (the software and the service) here?

  33. jonas’

    we’re looking for audio/video conferencing with call-in at work, and webex was discarded because it’s too unstable

  34. MattJ

    I don't think anyone from that team is here, but they generally aren't hard to get hold of

  35. fippo

    poke saghul on twitter, he's quite responsive

  36. jonas’

    what’s twitter?

  37. !XSF_Martin

    Nobody knows

  38. Guus

    jonas’ I've dabbled with it about a year ago.

  39. Guus

    They're also pretty responsive on their community discourse website thingy

  40. Guus

    and lastly, there's a community video conference every other week on Monday

  41. !XSF_Martin

    Still it's the most annoying way to spread news. I usually have to reload three times to make it show the content.

  42. !XSF_Martin

    They really bully you if you have no account and twitter client.

  43. Ge0rG

    !XSF_Martin: you know about nitter.net

  44. !XSF_Martin

    I do, but people keep posting Zwitter links instead of nitter links.

  45. moparisthebest

    I didn't know about that and now I'm mad you didn't tell me earlier Ge0rG

  46. moparisthebest

    it actually loads on my phone reliably, unlike twitter...

  47. !XSF_Martin

    It's easy to change while posting but it's not easy to change a received link as copypasta to browser and edit is annoying. The person posting should edit it instead of expecting every receiver to fix IG on his own.

  48. !XSF_Martin

    It's easy to change while posting but it's not easy to change a received link as copypasta to browser and edit is annoying. The person posting should edit it instead of expecting every receiver to fix it on his own.

  49. moparisthebest

    I just installed an extension https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/invidition/

  50. moparisthebest

    works on firefox desktop and mobile

  51. Zash

    jonas’, Ge0rG, dwd: So much text! :S

  52. jonas’

    Zash, I’m sorry, but I hope it’s worth it.

  53. Zash

    This reminds me of The Story of <img>. TL;DR: He who writes the code controls the defacto standards.

  54. Zash

    Oh dear more text while I was reading that text?

  55. jonas’

    just two lines, one of them being a URL

  56. jonas’

    (from me anyways)

  57. Zash

    Thank glob, those last two were short 🙂

  58. Daniel

    > TL;DR: He who writes the code controls the defacto standards. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

  59. Daniel

    Or just a thing

  60. Zash

    Mostly a thing. Sometimes it causes pain later.

  61. Zash

    Especially if it's some quick hack that gets too popular to replace, which seems to happen a bit too often for my taste.

  62. Alex

    hey guys, everyone ready for a member meeting?

  63. jonas’


  64. larma


  65. Zash


  66. jonas’

    indeed, fun

  67. Alex

    yes, today and now ;-)

  68. jonas’

    I’ll be party AFK

  69. Alex bangs the gavel

  70. jonas’

    I’ll be parly AFK

  71. jonas’

    I’ll be partly AFK

  72. Alex

    here is our agenda for today: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2019-12-10#Call_for_Quorum

  73. Ge0rG

    Oh, I just voted two hours ago

  74. Alex

    1) Call for Quorum

  75. Alex

    as you can see 28 members voted via memberbot. So we have a quorum

  76. Alex

    2) Items Subject to a Vote

  77. Alex

    New and Returning members, you can see all applicants here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q4_2019

  78. Alex

    3) Opportunity for XSF Members to Vote in the Meeting

  79. larma

    here, haven't voted yet

  80. Alex

    anyone here who has not voted yet and wants to do so?

  81. Alex

    larma, go for it

  82. Alex

    memberbot is still online

  83. winfried

    I'll be voting too now

  84. Alex

    go go go ;-)

  85. larma

    Alex, Just add yes for all

  86. Alex

    larma, can you vote via bot? makes it easier for me

  87. Alex

    have Winfrieds vote now

  88. larma

    Alex, will do

  89. Alex


  90. Alex

    larma, got your vote as well

  91. Alex

    more last minute voters?

  92. Alex

    otherwise I will start working on the results and shutdown memberbot

  93. Alex

    ok, start counting with my 10 fingers now

  94. Alex

    4) Announcement of Voting Results

  95. Alex

    when you reload the page at: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2019-12-10#Announcement_of_Voting_Results you can see the results

  96. Alex

    all Reappliers are accepted. Congrats to everyone

  97. winfried

    and thanks Alex!

  98. Zash

    Thanks Alex!

  99. Alex

    5) Any Other Business?

  100. jonas’

    none from me

  101. jonas’

    congrats to everyone, and thanks to Alex

  102. Alex

    6) Formal Adjournment

  103. Alex

    I motion that we adjourn

  104. Zash


  105. Alex bangs the gavel

  106. jonas’


  107. Alex

    thanks everone ;-)

  108. Guus

    Thanks Alex!

  109. pep.

    Always curious about the "no" votes. I'm happy to hear comments here or in private if anybody has feedback :)

  110. Ge0rG

    Awesome! No need to change the council!

  111. Zash

    XEP-0030 has this sentence: > The value of the 'node' attribute MUST NOT be null. What does this even mean in XML?

  112. jonas’

    very good question

  113. Guus

    An _attribute_ that's null? 🤔

  114. Guus

    I'm guessing an attribute that's defined without a value?

  115. jonas’

    that’s not a thing in XML

  116. jonas’

    at least libxml2 won’t parse it

  117. Guus

    <element att="" />

  118. jonas’

    that’s an attribute with an empty value

  119. jonas’

    not null

  120. Guus

    True, but that's my best guess at what's ment

  121. Zash

    I think we had a discussion about the difference between <item node=""> and <item>

  122. pep.

    Can we please stop leaving in a Maybe monad :(

  123. pep.

    Can we please stop living in a Maybe monad :(

  124. jonas’

    pep., maybe.

  125. pep.


  126. jonas’


  127. jonas’


  128. jonas’


  129. jonas’

    looks like my prosody was in questionable states

  130. jonas’

    maybe it was THE s2s bug

  131. Zash

    What's with the THE bugs?

  132. jonas’

    (ftr, the link did not show any results when I posted it)

  133. Ge0rG

    jonas’: the only THE bug is THE timer bug!

  134. jonas’