DebXWoodyIf the Server / Client doesn't support XEP-0313 and not XEP-0280. What will happen when Account 1 send a message to Account 2 while Account 2 is offline?
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pep."It depends"
pep.0280 is not actually for offline support
pep.look at 0198
ZashOffline message storage, delivered when they come back online.
pep.Some implementations will return an error saying the recipient is not available also
ZashUnless offline storage has been disabled,
DebXWoodyWhere is the offline storage defined RFC / XEP?
pep.0013 ?
ZashNo
Zashhttps://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0160.xml
ZashAltho it's actually not a protocol, it's just a server implementation detail
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DebXWoodyOk,.. thanks.
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lovetoxjonas’, your last email regarding char counting
jonas’holy smokes that thread blew up
lovetoxmaybe i dont get it, but i dont think it says what you want to say
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jonas’why?
jonas’(I also only sent one mail, or is my MUA confused?)
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lovetoxI think marvin, ralph and all other want to count *before* escaping, for the reasons detailed in this thread
jonas’depends on the direction you’re looking at
jonas’on the receiving side it’s after (un-)escaping
jonas’I totally agree with ralph and marivn
jonas’I can’t find my own mail tho
jonas’ah, there it is
lovetoxyeah if you mean that its ok i guess, just saying i dont think many people will read this from your email
jonas’okay, I’ll send a follow-up to clarify
lovetoxthat (un-) is essential
jonas’thanks for pointing it out
jonas’I sent a clarification which should make more sense
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lovetoxlooks good !
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lovetoxwhat are you all thinking about a XEP that lets you manage your uploaded files
lovetoxgetting the list of files currently uploaded, and maybe their expiration date
lovetoxand having a option to delete them
pep.Link Mauve had plans(tm) to integrate something like that into his account management client thingy, if/when that becomes a thing
pep.iirc
pep.And yeah that'd be great.
Link MauveI already have it in there I think.
pep.There were mentions of that during the GDPR paranoia period but nobody did anything about did
Link MauveOnly listing and deletion so far.
pep.Link Mauve, what standard?
Link MauveXEP-0050.
pep.lovetox, maybe if you look on standards@
pep.Link Mauve, what standard on top of 0050?
pep.:x
Link MauveNot written yet.
lovetoxadhoc is fine for that
lovetoxactually there is no need for a standard or? adhoc just returns dataforms
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lovetoxif you can process one adhoc workflow you can process all
lovetoxthough it probably would be good to have a well known command name for that functionality
lovetoxso we dont have to discover it
pep.yes
lovetoxon the other hand this could be added to the httpupload disco result
lovetoxthe adhoc command name i mean
lovetoxbut probably easier to just define one name
Link MauveYup, just like XEP-0133.
Link MauveMaybe we could just extend XEP-0133 with that.
lovetoxalso another thing i thought aboujt
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lovetoxsome way to discover if a file is already on the server
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lovetoxmaybe with sending a hash
lovetoxand you get back the uri and the expiration date
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moparisthebestWhat about encrypted files
lovetoxdepends on the encryption
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lovetoxif the encryption is always the same you could still check the hash
lovetoxbut thats not so likely
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lovetoxbut yeah that would not work for encrypted files, but thats no reason to not do it for unencrypted
ZashIf a hash is part of the upload slot request then the server could do integrity verification after the upload is completed, which seems like a nice thing.
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lovetoxhm yeah but is this really a problem worth solving
lovetoxhm with http does the server know the difference between end of file
ZashAlmost every file upload thing I made before HTTP upload was a thing would base the URL on the hash of the content. Would have been nice to use those, but couldn't because the current scheme.
lovetoxand cancelled transfer?
ZashIt knows the size
lovetoxah ..
lovetoxso yeah, i guess this never happens
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lovetoxa full size transfered file where some bytes are what flipped to something else?
ZashTLS (via HTTPS) also does a bunch for integrity
moparisthebestIt'd be nice if the rejected http upload encryption xep that every client currently implements anyway was accepted
Zashmoparisthebest, the aesgcm:// thing?
Zashmeh
moparisthebestWhat would it take process wise to reboot that? Yep that's it
ZashYak number one: Fix the encryption scheme to allow encrypting more than just the body.
lovetoxon what grounds was it rejected, and how would a proper http upload encryption look if not that way?
lovetoxactually it has nothing to do with httpupload
Zashhttps+vnd.something.omemo.aesgcm:// at the very least
lovetoxits just a way to communicate a key and url to another user
Zashor register aesgcm with iana
moparisthebestIt was originally just https:// until someone complained I think
lovetoxi guess all info could be put into the fragment
lovetoxurl#omemo-key=123123123123123
lovetoxthen it does not matter what the scheme is in front
MattJNon-OMEMO clients would just download garbage
lovetoxMattJ, non omemo clients can not see that message
ZashMattJ, they wouldn't get the URL in the first place tho
moparisthebestNo they wouldn't get the link
moparisthebestYep
MattJAh right
Zashbecause it'd be omemo-encrypted <body>
Zashin
lovetoxbut yeah its all a ugly workaround for not having full stanza encryption
moparisthebestFull stanza encryption would be great but that's a separate concern, you'd still need to encrypt the http upload
lovetoxbut even if its ugly, it just works and is easy to implement
lovetoxso not really a top priority to fix in my opinion
lovetoxmoparisthebest, but you dont need a XEP to encrypt a httpupload
lovetoxyou just need a XEP to communicate to another party, how you encrypted content
ZashDoesn't Jingle have stuff for this?
lovetoxyes, but we talk about http upload
lovetoxahh
ZashWhy does it need to matter what transport method you used?
lovetoxit doesnt
lovetoxyou are right
lovetoxjingle does it, it sends a key transport omemo message
lovetoxwhich is an encrypted message that has a key in it
lovetoxthis is not an encrypted body
lovetoxits something in the signal protocol layer
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lovetoxthen it starts jingle, and you know that keytransport message is the decryption key
lovetoxor something like that
lovetoxbut you can do this with jingle because you are in some kind of session, and you know where this key transport message belongs to
lovetoxhard to do with just sending a url
lovetoxhm its doable ..
lovetoxyou could put 2 encrypted omemo elements into one message
lovetoxone encrypts the body like always
lovetoxand the other is inside some <security> element
lovetoxand is the decryption key transport message
lovetoxthen you just have to write a xep that tells you to look for it and to decrpyt it in the right order
XSF Discussion - 2019-12-21