If the Server / Client doesn't support XEP-0313 and not XEP-0280. What will happen when Account 1 send a message to Account 2 while Account 2 is offline?
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pep.
"It depends"
pep.
0280 is not actually for offline support
pep.
look at 0198
Zash
Offline message storage, delivered when they come back online.
pep.
Some implementations will return an error saying the recipient is not available also
Zash
Unless offline storage has been disabled,
DebXWoody
Where is the offline storage defined RFC / XEP?
pep.
0013 ?
Zash
No
Zash
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0160.xml
Zash
Altho it's actually not a protocol, it's just a server implementation detail
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DebXWoody
Ok,.. thanks.
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lovetox
jonas’, your last email regarding char counting
jonas’
holy smokes that thread blew up
lovetox
maybe i dont get it, but i dont think it says what you want to say
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jonas’
why?
jonas’
(I also only sent one mail, or is my MUA confused?)
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lovetox
I think marvin, ralph and all other want to count *before* escaping, for the reasons detailed in this thread
jonas’
depends on the direction you’re looking at
jonas’
on the receiving side it’s after (un-)escaping
jonas’
I totally agree with ralph and marivn
jonas’
I can’t find my own mail tho
jonas’
ah, there it is
lovetox
yeah if you mean that its ok i guess, just saying i dont think many people will read this from your email
jonas’
okay, I’ll send a follow-up to clarify
lovetox
that (un-) is essential
jonas’
thanks for pointing it out
jonas’
I sent a clarification which should make more sense
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lovetox
looks good !
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lovetox
what are you all thinking about a XEP that lets you manage your uploaded files
lovetox
getting the list of files currently uploaded, and maybe their expiration date
lovetox
and having a option to delete them
pep.
Link Mauve had plans(tm) to integrate something like that into his account management client thingy, if/when that becomes a thing
pep.
iirc
pep.
And yeah that'd be great.
Link Mauve
I already have it in there I think.
pep.
There were mentions of that during the GDPR paranoia period but nobody did anything about did
Link Mauve
Only listing and deletion so far.
pep.
Link Mauve, what standard?
Link Mauve
XEP-0050.
pep.
lovetox, maybe if you look on standards@
pep.
Link Mauve, what standard on top of 0050?
pep.
:x
Link Mauve
Not written yet.
lovetox
adhoc is fine for that
lovetox
actually there is no need for a standard or? adhoc just returns dataforms
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lovetox
if you can process one adhoc workflow you can process all
lovetox
though it probably would be good to have a well known command name for that functionality
lovetox
so we dont have to discover it
pep.
yes
lovetox
on the other hand this could be added to the httpupload disco result
lovetox
the adhoc command name i mean
lovetox
but probably easier to just define one name
Link Mauve
Yup, just like XEP-0133.
Link Mauve
Maybe we could just extend XEP-0133 with that.
lovetox
also another thing i thought aboujt
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lovetox
some way to discover if a file is already on the server
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lovetox
maybe with sending a hash
lovetox
and you get back the uri and the expiration date
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moparisthebest
What about encrypted files
lovetox
depends on the encryption
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lovetox
if the encryption is always the same you could still check the hash
lovetox
but thats not so likely
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lovetox
but yeah that would not work for encrypted files, but thats no reason to not do it for unencrypted
Zash
If a hash is part of the upload slot request then the server could do integrity verification after the upload is completed, which seems like a nice thing.
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lovetox
hm yeah but is this really a problem worth solving
lovetox
hm with http does the server know the difference between end of file
Zash
Almost every file upload thing I made before HTTP upload was a thing would base the URL on the hash of the content. Would have been nice to use those, but couldn't because the current scheme.
lovetox
and cancelled transfer?
Zash
It knows the size
lovetox
ah ..
lovetox
so yeah, i guess this never happens
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lovetox
a full size transfered file where some bytes are what flipped to something else?
Zash
TLS (via HTTPS) also does a bunch for integrity
moparisthebest
It'd be nice if the rejected http upload encryption xep that every client currently implements anyway was accepted
Zash
moparisthebest, the aesgcm:// thing?
Zash
meh
moparisthebest
What would it take process wise to reboot that? Yep that's it
Zash
Yak number one: Fix the encryption scheme to allow encrypting more than just the body.
lovetox
on what grounds was it rejected, and how would a proper http upload encryption look if not that way?
lovetox
actually it has nothing to do with httpupload
Zash
https+vnd.something.omemo.aesgcm:// at the very least
lovetox
its just a way to communicate a key and url to another user
Zash
or register aesgcm with iana
moparisthebest
It was originally just https:// until someone complained I think
lovetox
i guess all info could be put into the fragment
lovetox
url#omemo-key=123123123123123
lovetox
then it does not matter what the scheme is in front
MattJ
Non-OMEMO clients would just download garbage
lovetox
MattJ, non omemo clients can not see that message
Zash
MattJ, they wouldn't get the URL in the first place tho
moparisthebest
No they wouldn't get the link
moparisthebest
Yep
MattJ
Ah right
Zash
because it'd be omemo-encrypted <body>
Zash
in
lovetox
but yeah its all a ugly workaround for not having full stanza encryption
moparisthebest
Full stanza encryption would be great but that's a separate concern, you'd still need to encrypt the http upload
lovetox
but even if its ugly, it just works and is easy to implement
lovetox
so not really a top priority to fix in my opinion
lovetox
moparisthebest, but you dont need a XEP to encrypt a httpupload
lovetox
you just need a XEP to communicate to another party, how you encrypted content
Zash
Doesn't Jingle have stuff for this?
lovetox
yes, but we talk about http upload
lovetox
ahh
Zash
Why does it need to matter what transport method you used?
lovetox
it doesnt
lovetox
you are right
lovetox
jingle does it, it sends a key transport omemo message
lovetox
which is an encrypted message that has a key in it
lovetox
this is not an encrypted body
lovetox
its something in the signal protocol layer
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lovetox
then it starts jingle, and you know that keytransport message is the decryption key
lovetox
or something like that
lovetox
but you can do this with jingle because you are in some kind of session, and you know where this key transport message belongs to
lovetox
hard to do with just sending a url
lovetox
hm its doable ..
lovetox
you could put 2 encrypted omemo elements into one message
lovetox
one encrypts the body like always
lovetox
and the other is inside some <security> element
lovetox
and is the decryption key transport message
lovetox
then you just have to write a xep that tells you to look for it and to decrpyt it in the right order