XSF Discussion - 2019-12-21

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  216. DebXWoody If the Server / Client doesn't support XEP-0313 and not XEP-0280. What will happen when Account 1 send a message to Account 2 while Account 2 is offline?
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  219. pep. "It depends"
  220. pep. 0280 is not actually for offline support
  221. pep. look at 0198
  222. Zash Offline message storage, delivered when they come back online.
  223. pep. Some implementations will return an error saying the recipient is not available also
  224. Zash Unless offline storage has been disabled,
  225. DebXWoody Where is the offline storage defined RFC / XEP?
  226. pep. 0013 ?
  227. Zash No
  228. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0160.xml
  229. Zash Altho it's actually not a protocol, it's just a server implementation detail
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  235. DebXWoody Ok,.. thanks.
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  402. lovetox jonas’, your last email regarding char counting
  403. jonas’ holy smokes that thread blew up
  404. lovetox maybe i dont get it, but i dont think it says what you want to say
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  406. jonas’ why?
  407. jonas’ (I also only sent one mail, or is my MUA confused?)
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  409. lovetox I think marvin, ralph and all other want to count *before* escaping, for the reasons detailed in this thread
  410. jonas’ depends on the direction you’re looking at
  411. jonas’ on the receiving side it’s after (un-)escaping
  412. jonas’ I totally agree with ralph and marivn
  413. jonas’ I can’t find my own mail tho
  414. jonas’ ah, there it is
  415. lovetox yeah if you mean that its ok i guess, just saying i dont think many people will read this from your email
  416. jonas’ okay, I’ll send a follow-up to clarify
  417. lovetox that (un-) is essential
  418. jonas’ thanks for pointing it out
  419. jonas’ I sent a clarification which should make more sense
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  422. lovetox looks good !
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  497. lovetox what are you all thinking about a XEP that lets you manage your uploaded files
  498. lovetox getting the list of files currently uploaded, and maybe their expiration date
  499. lovetox and having a option to delete them
  500. pep. Link Mauve had plans(tm) to integrate something like that into his account management client thingy, if/when that becomes a thing
  501. pep. iirc
  502. pep. And yeah that'd be great.
  503. Link Mauve I already have it in there I think.
  504. pep. There were mentions of that during the GDPR paranoia period but nobody did anything about did
  505. Link Mauve Only listing and deletion so far.
  506. pep. Link Mauve, what standard?
  507. Link Mauve XEP-0050.
  508. pep. lovetox, maybe if you look on standards@
  509. pep. Link Mauve, what standard on top of 0050?
  510. pep. :x
  511. Link Mauve Not written yet.
  512. lovetox adhoc is fine for that
  513. lovetox actually there is no need for a standard or? adhoc just returns dataforms
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  518. lovetox if you can process one adhoc workflow you can process all
  519. lovetox though it probably would be good to have a well known command name for that functionality
  520. lovetox so we dont have to discover it
  521. pep. yes
  522. lovetox on the other hand this could be added to the httpupload disco result
  523. lovetox the adhoc command name i mean
  524. lovetox but probably easier to just define one name
  525. Link Mauve Yup, just like XEP-0133.
  526. Link Mauve Maybe we could just extend XEP-0133 with that.
  527. lovetox also another thing i thought aboujt
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  530. lovetox some way to discover if a file is already on the server
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  533. lovetox maybe with sending a hash
  534. lovetox and you get back the uri and the expiration date
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  567. moparisthebest What about encrypted files
  568. lovetox depends on the encryption
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  570. lovetox if the encryption is always the same you could still check the hash
  571. lovetox but thats not so likely
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  573. lovetox but yeah that would not work for encrypted files, but thats no reason to not do it for unencrypted
  574. Zash If a hash is part of the upload slot request then the server could do integrity verification after the upload is completed, which seems like a nice thing.
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  576. lovetox hm yeah but is this really a problem worth solving
  577. lovetox hm with http does the server know the difference between end of file
  578. Zash Almost every file upload thing I made before HTTP upload was a thing would base the URL on the hash of the content. Would have been nice to use those, but couldn't because the current scheme.
  579. lovetox and cancelled transfer?
  580. Zash It knows the size
  581. lovetox ah ..
  582. lovetox so yeah, i guess this never happens
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  584. lovetox a full size transfered file where some bytes are what flipped to something else?
  585. Zash TLS (via HTTPS) also does a bunch for integrity
  586. moparisthebest It'd be nice if the rejected http upload encryption xep that every client currently implements anyway was accepted
  587. Zash moparisthebest, the aesgcm:// thing?
  588. Zash meh
  589. moparisthebest What would it take process wise to reboot that? Yep that's it
  590. Zash Yak number one: Fix the encryption scheme to allow encrypting more than just the body.
  591. lovetox on what grounds was it rejected, and how would a proper http upload encryption look if not that way?
  592. lovetox actually it has nothing to do with httpupload
  593. Zash https+vnd.something.omemo.aesgcm:// at the very least
  594. lovetox its just a way to communicate a key and url to another user
  595. Zash or register aesgcm with iana
  596. moparisthebest It was originally just https:// until someone complained I think
  597. lovetox i guess all info could be put into the fragment
  598. lovetox url#omemo-key=123123123123123
  599. lovetox then it does not matter what the scheme is in front
  600. MattJ Non-OMEMO clients would just download garbage
  601. lovetox MattJ, non omemo clients can not see that message
  602. Zash MattJ, they wouldn't get the URL in the first place tho
  603. moparisthebest No they wouldn't get the link
  604. moparisthebest Yep
  605. MattJ Ah right
  606. Zash because it'd be omemo-encrypted <body>
  607. Zash in
  608. lovetox but yeah its all a ugly workaround for not having full stanza encryption
  609. moparisthebest Full stanza encryption would be great but that's a separate concern, you'd still need to encrypt the http upload
  610. lovetox but even if its ugly, it just works and is easy to implement
  611. lovetox so not really a top priority to fix in my opinion
  612. lovetox moparisthebest, but you dont need a XEP to encrypt a httpupload
  613. lovetox you just need a XEP to communicate to another party, how you encrypted content
  614. Zash Doesn't Jingle have stuff for this?
  615. lovetox yes, but we talk about http upload
  616. lovetox ahh
  617. Zash Why does it need to matter what transport method you used?
  618. lovetox it doesnt
  619. lovetox you are right
  620. lovetox jingle does it, it sends a key transport omemo message
  621. lovetox which is an encrypted message that has a key in it
  622. lovetox this is not an encrypted body
  623. lovetox its something in the signal protocol layer
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  625. lovetox then it starts jingle, and you know that keytransport message is the decryption key
  626. lovetox or something like that
  627. lovetox but you can do this with jingle because you are in some kind of session, and you know where this key transport message belongs to
  628. lovetox hard to do with just sending a url
  629. lovetox hm its doable ..
  630. lovetox you could put 2 encrypted omemo elements into one message
  631. lovetox one encrypts the body like always
  632. lovetox and the other is inside some <security> element
  633. lovetox and is the decryption key transport message
  634. lovetox then you just have to write a xep that tells you to look for it and to decrpyt it in the right order
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