pep.What if you want to have a group with channels from different components?
pep.Would not a list of channels be easier to handle? You can also do MIX like this it's not specific to MUC
pep.(Not that I have any interest in having MIX implemented for the time being)
wurstsalathas left
kokonoehas joined
Tobiashas left
goffihas left
Fahrgasthas joined
wurstsalathas joined
lskdjfhas left
andrey.ghas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
archas left
archas joined
mimi89999has left
mimi89999has joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
vanitasvitaehas joined
karoshihas left
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
kokonoehas left
pdurbinhas joined
krauqhas left
kokonoehas joined
krauqhas joined
pdurbinhas left
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
!XSF_Martinhas left
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
!XSF_Martinhas joined
Douglas Terabytehas joined
debaclehas joined
kokonoehas left
kokonoehas joined
alexishas left
alexishas joined
mukt2has joined
larmahas left
emushas left
krauqhas left
kokonoehas left
krauqhas joined
alexishas left
mukt2has left
pep.has left
Douglas Terabytehas left
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
Douglas Terabytehas joined
pep.has joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
betahas left
krauqhas left
betahas joined
krauqhas joined
Fahrgasthas left
Fahrgasthas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
mimi89999has left
mimi89999has joined
debaclehas left
j.rhas left
krauqhas left
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
krauqhas joined
j.rhas joined
Syndacehas left
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
krauqhas left
winfriedhas left
krauqhas joined
winfriedhas joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
pdurbinhas joined
Syndacehas joined
krauqhas left
mimi89999has left
krauqhas joined
pdurbinhas left
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
mukt2has joined
mimi89999has joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
archas left
archas joined
mukt2has left
adiaholichas left
archas left
archas joined
Nekithas joined
j.rhas left
mukt2has joined
j.rhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
mukt2has left
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
krauqhas left
betahas left
krauqhas joined
betahas joined
archas left
archas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
archas left
archas joined
archas left
archas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
krauqhas left
betahas left
Yagizahas joined
pdurbinhas joined
Fahrgasthas left
krauqhas joined
Zashhas left
Zashhas joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
betahas joined
krauqhas left
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
Fahrgasthas joined
betahas left
archas left
betahas joined
archas joined
krauqhas joined
archas left
archas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
adiaholichas joined
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
mukt2has joined
Fahrgasthas left
Fahrgasthas joined
mukt2has left
archas left
karoshihas joined
betahas left
debxwoodyhas joined
betahas joined
krauqhas left
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
krauqhas joined
lovetoxhas joined
Fahrgasthas left
Fahrgasthas joined
lovetoxhas left
mukt2has joined
Fahrgasthas left
krauqhas left
debxwoodyhas left
larmahas joined
larmahas left
krauqhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
larmahas joined
Fahrgasthas joined
emushas joined
lskdjfhas joined
lskdjfhas left
mukt2has left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
krauqhas left
lskdjfhas joined
krauqhas joined
MattJpep.: disco can return JIDs from other components :)
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
wurstsalathas left
betahas left
betahas joined
matlaghas left
matlaghas joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
betahas left
betahas joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
Douglas Terabytehas left
Douglas Terabytehas joined
betahas left
betahas joined
wurstsalathas joined
betahas left
betahas joined
Tobiashas joined
eevvoorhas joined
andyhas joined
Fahrgasthas left
Fahrgasthas joined
betahas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
pep.MattJ: you'd be breaking a SHOULD? (Behind a feature I guess..). "The service SHOULD return a full list of the public rooms it hosts"
betahas joined
sjaakhas left
adiaholichas left
pep.I came across this but I was mostly looking at possible restrictions on the type of jid you can put in there
sjaakhas joined
waqashas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
Ge0rGIt doesn't say it may only return rooms...
sjaakhas joined
Fahrgasthas left
goffihas joined
sjaakhas left
mukt2has joined
goffihas left
pep.It doesn't insist on it..
krauqhas left
pep.I wonder how many people would interpret it this loosely though
mimi89999has left
Ge0rGMost of them
MattJWho cares?
pep.MattJ: dunno, some optimisation "because the xep says so"
MattJDisco has been used this way for a long long time, not necessarily on MUC components (that I'm aware of)
MattJBut I don't see a difference
goffihas joined
Ge0rGReminds me of https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Client_Test_Cases
MattJThe attribute is 'jid' not 'nodepart'
mimi89999has joined
sjaakhas joined
adiaholichas joined
MattJIn the olden days many servers would return conference.jabber.org in their disco items, or transports from another server, etc.
mimi89999has left
mimi89999has joined
krauqhas joined
MattJClients did not and should not expect that those services are always subdomains of the domain they disco, and the same applies here
Ge0rGpep.: there is actual benefit in using jonas’' muc search API instead of the blunt disco#items, as it provides rich info without having to query each room individually
Ge0rGAnd that doesn't come with the expectation of all rooms being on the same domain
pep.Ge0rG: context?
Ge0rGpep.: exposing a "community" room list
pep.I don't especially think this should be restricted to being a "room" list
mimi89999has left
mimi89999has joined
mukt2has left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Ge0rGWell, you could stuff anything into it, but what would be useful, and not too far away from normal xmpp clients?
lorddavidiiihas left
pep.By "normal" you mean chat?
lorddavidiiihas joined
Ge0rGI mean the widely deployed ones, which is roughly the same
pep.All clients support PEP right. Microblog is not too far away :p
Ge0rGpep.: now just make it mandatory for CS'21 and we are set
pep.Also I wouldn't be so sure our public space and enterprise have the same "norms"
Ge0rGpep.: now just make it mandatory for CS'21 Core IM and we are set
pep.Maybe someday people will stop assuming XMPP = IM
j.rhas left
adiaholichas left
Ge0rGSpeaking of which, is it too early to fork off CS'21 yet?
jonas’no
jonas’it’s never too early
j.rhas joined
Ge0rGIt's not even 2020
jonas’oh, right
lovetoxhas joined
jonas’no wait
jonas’it’s never too early :)
lorddavidiiihas left
Ge0rGHeh!
Ge0rGXEP-0412 is still in Draft though
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
jonas’that’s where compliance suites go to die
lorddavidiiihas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
Ge0rGAnd it doesn't even link its predecessor. Who wrote this shit?
jonas’the same person who wrote the star wars prequels, I think. so some people would argue that makes sense.
Ge0rGWell then
jonas’(I am sorry)
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
Ge0rGjonas’: are you really? 😋
jonas’slightly
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
betahas left
mukt2has joined
adiaholichas joined
betahas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
lovetoxhas left
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
lovetoxhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
betahas left
mukt2has left
krauqhas left
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
krauqhas joined
Syndacehas left
Syndacehas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
matlaghas left
betahas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
matlaghas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
wurstsalathas left
lorddavidiiihas left
Syndacehas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
sjaakhas left
adiaholichas left
lorddavidiiihas left
sjaakhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
Syndacehas joined
dendanghas joined
j.rhas left
lorddavidiiihas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
!XSF_Martinhas left
!XSF_Martinhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
j.rhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
j.rhas left
wurstsalathas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
olihas joined
olihas left
j.rhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
debaclehas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
goffi Hello here, I'm checking https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#continue to convert one2one chat to MUC, and I'm suspicious about sending the history from the
one2one chat (cf. Example 63). Is there any client doing that? The text says that the <delay> element has the "from" of original message sender, but the example use the
same "from" for the 2 messages (and using this, we could fake message from anybody).
goffiIs this the actual recommanded way to convert one2one chat to a MUC?
goffirecommended*
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
Guushas joined
Guushas left
Ge0rGgoffi: I haven't seen it used anywhere, also there is the obvious trust problem
Ge0rGgoffi: one could principally send <forwarded> messages into the MUC, but there is also the privacy problem
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
j.rhas left
goffiGe0rG: indeed. Doesn't look good to me. I think I'll skip this history sending in my implementation, at least for now.
Ge0rGgoffi: yeah
goffialso we would need to know how much of history to send, it's not trivial to do it right.
Ge0rGI've brought up those points in the context of MIX, and IIRC it lead to the removal of history upload
lorddavidiiihas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
vanitasvitaehas joined
adiaholichas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
j.rhas joined
pdurbinhas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
dendanghas left
betahas left
betahas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
mathijshas left
sjaakhas left
mathijshas joined
sjaakhas joined
adiaholichas left
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
j.rhas left
debaclehas left
mukt2has joined
mukt2has left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
!XSF_Martinhas left
!XSF_Martinhas joined
j.rhas joined
sjaakhas left
j.rhas left
sjaakhas joined
Nekithas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
adiaholichas joined
pdurbinhas joined
mukt2has joined
pdurbinhas left
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
davidhas left
davidhas joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
j.rhas joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
j.rhas left
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
j.rhas joined
calvinhas joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
dendanghas joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
Shellhas joined
andrey.ghas left
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
matlaghas left
matlaghas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
!XSF_Martinhas left
!XSF_Martinhas joined
sjaakhas left
calvinhas left
calvinhas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
mr.fisterhas joined
sjaakhas joined
Steve Killehas left
Kevhas left
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
waqashas joined
sjaakhas left
waqashas left
sjaakhas joined
mukt2has left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
Shellhas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
j.rhas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
Shellhas joined
lovetoxhas left
j.rhas joined
j.rhas left
!XSF_Martinhas left
sjaakhas left
!XSF_Martinhas joined
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
calvinhas left
calvinhas joined
calvinhas left
calvinhas joined
!XSF_Martinhas left
!XSF_Martinhas joined
andrey.ghas joined
calvinhas left
zukzukhas joined
pdurbinhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
calvinhas joined
sjaakhas left
calvinhas left
calvinhas joined
pdurbinhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
j.rhas joined
sjaakhas joined
Shellhas left
j.rhas left
dendanghas left
calvinhas left
calvinhas joined
j.rhas joined
debaclehas joined
lovetoxhas joined
j.rhas left
lovetoxhas left
calvinhas left
calvinhas joined
j.rhas joined
calvinhas left
eevvoorhas left
j.rhas left
calvinhas joined
betahas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
j.rhas joined
calvinhas left
j.rhas left
emushas left
j.rhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
Steve Killehas joined
Yagizahas left
betahas joined
Nekithas joined
matlaghas left
matlaghas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
betahas left
j.rhas left
eevvoorhas joined
j.rhas joined
lovetoxhas joined
pdurbinhas joined
eevvoorhas left
dendanghas joined
zukzukhas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
Guushas joined
Guushas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
pdurbinhas left
betahas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
Nekithas left
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
andrey.ghas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
ZashIs there a media type registered for XMPP stanzas?
Zashhttps://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0081.xml :/
ZashOh, application/xmpp+xml defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3923#section-10
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
ZashHuh, weird <xmpp> container
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
j.rhas left
mukt2has joined
neshtaxmpphas left
mukt2has left
pep.has left
pep.has joined
j.rhas joined
Tobiashas left
Tobiashas joined
pep.has left
pep.has joined
dendanghas left
dendanghas joined
sjaakhas left
waqashas joined
sjaakhas joined
pep.has left
pep.has joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
pep.has left
pep.has joined
sjaakhas left
pep.has left
vanitasvitaeIn case you missed Moxie Marlinspikes latest talk about why decentralized systems are inferior to centralized systems, I formulated a reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21908712
vanitasvitae(I hope this is not too OT for this channel)
sjaakhas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
ZashNice
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
sjaakhas left
Zashvanitasvitae: "While this is and issue" s/and/an/ ?
sjaakhas joined
vanitasvitaefixed 🙂
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
Ge0rGvanitasvitae: great! minor typo: "called compliance suits" --> "suites"
sjaakhas joined
vanitasvitaeGe0rG, fixed as well
Ge0rG👍
lovetoxi dont know why this is even a discussion, there are pro and cons two both ways (decentralized/centralized) and they will not go away, talking about why a particular con or pro doesnt matter to you iin some specific project is irrelevant in my opinion
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
lovetoxthere will always be people for which the pros/cons will matter
lovetoxthats why there are 2 ways of doing things
lorddavidiiihas left
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
vanitasvitaesure. I just thought it was worth a reply nontheless.
lovetox*two/to
lovetoxvanitasvitae, the "you" was not directed at you
lovetoxi was speaking about moxie
lovetoxi dont see the value in giving a talk how the centralized approach worked for signal
lovetoxno shit it works, like it works for a million other projects
lovetoxand it has the same cons and pros like all other projects
vanitasvitae😀
lovetoxi didnt listen to the talk, so if he brought something new groundbreaking to the discussion, ignore me
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
Kevhas joined
Kevhas left
pep.has joined
pep.has left
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
pdurbinhas joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
MattJlovetox: the problem is that Signal is trying to appeal to a privacy-conscious audience that has historically always been anti-centralization, so he needs to justify why Signal is not decentralized
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
j.rhas left
neshtaxmpphas joined
lskdjfhas left
lskdjfhas joined
Danielhas left
Danielhas joined
pdurbinhas left
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
mukt2has joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
emushas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
lovetoxah k, he should just go with, "its much easier, and we try to minimize the cons as much as possible, if you dont like it build something better decentralized"
j.rhas joined
lovetoxalso why would he need to appeal to certain people
lovetoxwhat is the signal business model?
vanitasvitaeGet money from tech funds
lovetoxok but why would they invest money?
lovetoxor do they invest money into openwhispersystems
lovetoxfor doing other stuff
lovetoxand openwhispersystem just crossfinances signal on the side with it
lovetoxbecause if their goal is total privacy, i dont see a way how signal can ever make money
vanitasvitaeI mean, much of their money probably also comes from licensing libsignal to WhatsApp, Skype etc.
lovetoxits subscription or add revenue on the internet, and with so many chat applications out there i dont think a subscription service will be profitable
lovetoxits subscription or ad revenue on the internet, and with so many chat applications out there i dont think a subscription service will be profitable
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
pep.has joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
sjaakhas left
sjaakhas joined
j.rhas left
dendanghas left
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
winfriedhas left
winfriedhas joined
emusvanitasvitae: Well stated text. Will put ot to the newsletter
I would like to say: "we do these things…
…not because they are easy, but because they are RIGHT…"