XSF Discussion - 2020-01-15

Help iTeam: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/667 is merged but is not published on https://xmpp.org/category/newsletter.html what did I do wrong?

it’s not published to the blog either

I don’t have my docker hub credentials with me, but if I’d have to take a guess, something went wrong during the build

though hub claims everything is fine

cc @ iteam then

Kev, can you take a quick look? everything from the outside looks good, ISTM that the docker pull failed on the host maybe for some reason?

Using default tag: latest latest: Pulling from xmppxsf/xmpp.org Digest: sha256:22a2df36de36f5905542b3525d32e65ad870b230189c8b8bb1d644fc1720417e Status: Image is up to date for xmppxsf/xmpp.org:latest Latest: sha256:1a30a4ff38277c65de19e213a8c010a28f3e78ddc3dcee7c294d865f60ab11e2 Running: sha256:1a30a4ff38277c65de19e213a8c010a28f3e78ddc3dcee7c294d865f60ab11e2 xmpp.org_website up to date

It believes it's running the latest.

nyco, maybe it’s the spaces in the file name?

like it’s the 90ies

Kev, can you check the build logs of the latest build from https://hub.docker.com/r/xmppxsf/xmpp.org/builds/ if there’s anything obvious in there? I don’t have my credentials with me ✏

They all show as building successfully.

yes, but pelican might’ve lied

possibly because it didn’t consider the issue fatal

I’ve seen pelican builds pass without non-zero exit code where no output was generated

https://hub.docker.com/u/xmppxsf/repository/docker/xmppxsf/xmpp.org/builds/8d15cb1c-f9f8-496b-bd5d-60f7af76b39d seems to have no output to me, so I can't really check what happened.

derp

as usual, thanks

titles have always had spaces I had on doubt on the timestamp

nyco, filename, not title

oh yeah, broken timestamp can cause that too

but it has the same format as the 2019-12-03 one

my money is on the space in the filename, even though that’s quite 90ies

will try

Seems to me just that that docker hub's log showing is broken :/

Kev, yeah, has been for ages :(

sometimes you see something, but most of the time you don’t

ah, but we can check the travis build

So why did you ask me to go looking? :p

Kev, because I couldn’t even check that

and *sometimes* you get output

WARNING: Could not process posts/newsletter/Newsletter for 2020-01-10.md Failed loading extension "codehilite(css_class=highlight)".

is that new?

it shows for *all* posts: https://travis-ci.org/xsf/xmpp.org/jobs/636891227?utm_medium=notification&utm_source=github_status

> Done: Processed 0 articles and 1 pages in 0.42 seconds.

reads pretty bad

I’m surprised that we still have any page up actually

https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/668

No really, I don’t have +w anymore ✏

so I can’t really do anything

if the fix from nyco does not help (I don’t expect it to help), I strongly suggest to try: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/621

though that has the same travis output *shrug*

The Pelican stuff is all a black box to me. nyco: Did it build for you locally?

(FTR, that website never built correctly for me locally, though I have multiple pelican-based projects which work just fine)

(something is weird about the xmpp.org setup, and I don’t know what it is)

I don't know how to build locally? btw, build what? I dunno what I'm doing here

build the website

html from md

calling `make html` essentially

but if you’ve never done that, you probably need dependencies & stuff

ok

ok, I'll commute from home to co-working space

nyco, I can take a deeper look once I’m at home, though that won’t be before 15:00Z most likely

ping me then if the issue is still unresolved

oh, it's online!

who did what?

just the filename change?

so, it was because of me, sorry...

I suspect so, but don't know. I've not touched anything, and Jonas said he'd not be able to look for a while.

I didn’t do anything, and I don’t have any privileges on that repo anymore

so the spaces in the filename. like in the 90ies

PSA: Do not use JIDs as file/folder names in interoperable or portable applications: - Each individual part on a JID can be 1023 bytes long, which is longer than the typical path component limit on Linux (255 bytes) - The localpart can contain backslashes. Have fun with that on Windows. - The casefolding specified in the XMPP RFCs may differ from the casefolding the FS does, and it may map the different JIDs to the same dir entry (no proof for that, but we all know Unicode). - If you store JIDs which may be full JIDs, they have a forward slash which will cause fun on non-Windows systems. I personally would recommend JID | hash-function | base32 to deal with all of those issues, but I’m interested to hear about other techniques.

SHA1 to the rescue!

I'm anticipating the following: "I'm using a real database I'm fine!" :-°

pep., though MySQL has weird limits on VARCHAR length / index size, which causes its own bunch of troubles

oh wait, you said real database.

nevermind.

that was a joke anyway

I'm doing horrible things to JIDs before I put them into SQLite

unspeakable things even?

those, too

Unpronounceable things?

what's the recommended xmpp client for mac users?

debian

> debian 👍

Beagle maybe. But don't get your hopes up

I use Swift, obviously.

How about Dino? 😀

How much does the person want to suffer?

if they want to suffer a lot, Adium

converse maybe is a good suggestion?

nobody said native macOS 😀

> what's the recommended xmpp client for mac users? I also use converse js for all my MSC friends. The rest never worked fully

thanks everyone :)

jonas’, I dig your recommendation for debian to mac users.

Put converse inside Electron and call it MacChat

I think Gajim works OK, from what I remember.

Ge0rG, needs web push first

Thinking on from JC Brand and I chatting on Twitter about hosted email providers, could Board see about negotiating an XSF Member discount for this kind of thing?

⁻ENOCTX

jonas’, Doesn't need to be really, but https://twitter.com/DwdDave/status/1217423901619314688 and back from there.

Why would the XSF work on putting forward one provider? (#neutrality)

Heinlein is a charismatic guy! Forget neutrality!

:)

Especially Fastmail, since they dropped XMPP from their offering

dwd: membership is open to anyone, sou you'd end up with new XSF applicants who want to cheap out on fastmail/mailbox/whatever.

I likewise don't see the relevance

#badincentives

Ge0rG, increase in year-on-year membership growth, success!

MattJ: mailbox.org xmpp is also a second class citizen in their admin team

> <Daniel> Beagle maybe. But don't get your hopes up how so?

can the XSF's mailman please be fixed? compare https://burtrum.org/up/dfd62b36-758e-46cd-aa6e-66382677fc86/open-screeny-5489.png to https://burtrum.org/up/be21a3c4-bb89-4736-8b7a-2bb4f9ee4345/open-screeny-5405.png

"fixed" as in, don't add the footer breaking DKIM please

What possibly breaks the signature is not the body but the header being changed "[Members]", right?

At least for the first mail in the thread

depends if the Subject header is signed or not, but yea perhaps that should be changed too

Kev, whom do I need to pester about issues with the council mailing list?

MattJ is iteam now

What are the issues?

you could say the mailing list breaking DKIM is an encumbrance to participating in the standards process :D

MattJ, my mails end up in the moderation queue

also DKIM issues across all mailing lists

across *all* mailing lists. all of them, everywhere.

solution: remove DKIM

I second that

bringing back the worse problem of email spoofing

s/problem/feature/

use GPG if you need to be sure

Google will have a word with you. It doesn't matter if it's bad, Google says DKIM it is.

but we don't have a say in that anyway, DKIM/DMARC is here, and there have been proper ways to configure mailman for years

all off-topic though

MattJ, I am subscribed with jonas@wielicki.name, judging by the X-Original-To header set by my MTA, but when I send from that address to the list, it gets queued

it would be good if I could post messages to council@

properly configuring mailman is off topic?

moparisthebest, pretty sure it is

you might want to know about iteam@

I'm not sure if it's just them, it'll require removing the footer for instance, I don't know if that's a board decision or not

IMO that’s a purely technical decision, but I see where you’re coming from

Sorry, I don't know the list password and everything I've tried fails to let me in

and too busy to do any further digging atm

What's the mailman issue?

Indeed, removing footers from mailman mails is definitely not a Board issue, but an iteam one.

I swear we've discussed it in here before but my searches are failing, List-Unsubscribe was surely mentioned, anyway...

stpeter, jonas’ is having his emails queued for some reason

it's just that it breaks DKIM, which can be fixed, and that means users on well configured servers miss emails

compare https://burtrum.org/up/dfd62b36-758e-46cd-aa6e-66382677fc86/open-screeny-5489.png to https://burtrum.org/up/be21a3c4-bb89-4736-8b7a-2bb4f9ee4345/open-screeny-5405.png

Ok, there are two issues currently under discussion :)

yes!

jonas’ please ping me directly and I can try to debug it for you

Problem solved!

<3 thanks

The Council list is moderated, but I'm happy to unmoderate email addresses of known individuals (and of course jonas' is a Council member!).

so next time someone is +council’d they should also set to be unmoderated, note @ iteam

(not sure who normally manages list subscriptions)

Also, to address the bus factor, we might want to assign more lits admins.

A start would be to get MattJ / iteam proper access?

I supposedly have access, but may need some pointers

I'll make a little HOWTO

I can mailman, but I don’t have access

I could probably guide someone through the thing

(although I think it’s pretty straightforward)

It is straightforward.

I can give more folks access.

I guess that's up to iteam (of which you are part) ✏

In my experience, list admins come and go, but I'm here forever. ;-)

stpeter: thanks! Keep that up. 💖

But hey, bus factor...

There's already a HOWTO, you (I guess) wrote one years ago :)

And MattJ does have access, at least if he has access to atlas (which I thought he did)

There is a how-to and I tried 7 passwords twice before giving up :)

whenever I need to access a mailman admin interface, I log into the machine, run the command to reset the list password and move on ;)

That's less useful on a shared host.

MattJ: The password I had still worked the last time I tried it, at least, which wasn't very long ago.

anyone have suggestions on how to respond to any of the on-list emails that didn't make it to my inbox?

If you point me to the email I can give you the header to add (References/Message-ID) :x

Some lists provide an mbox file

It seems ours don't?

^ that's what I was hoping but I didn't see anything

Download the mbox file?

Don't click on this just for the fun of it, it is big: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards.mbox/standards.mbox

Not Found

let me find out, I did this before

https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/ has an archive per month

Isn't it linked from the monthly archive?

The monthly archive is different I think. Not sure if that's mbox.

It is gzipped in any case

Looks like mbox I think?

Yep, does look like it

Last time I wanted to read something in a ML I could just `mutt -f mailinglist.gz`

yay!

the members@ is what I need in this case, trying that link

Zash: the full archive is https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/private/standards.mbox/standards.mbox

and you need to log in with your list creds

Ah, yes, those.. I remember those. :)

Is anyone going to Brussels on the Wednesday? I'm wondering whether to get an earlyish train or not. Depends if there's going to be anyone there for a drink when I get there.

dwd: quite a few people, counting 9 right now

Cool, I'll go for the afternoon train then.

Me too

MattJ, There's a cheap one I'm booking at 15:04. Happy to pick a seat next to you if you fancy company?

Sounds great

Except I can't book mine right now

(As usual, booked the last one going back on Sunday).

True story: the Eurostar website hates me

Every year I have the same error: CHECKOUT_706

It hates me, too. Refuses to let me register.

and every year they can't tell me why

Novel.

I've tried different browsers, different payment cards, paypal, different address even

I have no idea what it's about

I've tried being logged in, logged out

Different email address?

I don't know if I've tried that

Tried a false name?

Because it's always wise to give a false name when crossing the border

This time, perhaps.

the eurostar website hates everybody, I am the only person in my friend group who can book interrail-discounted eurostar tickets successfully

Hmmm. I definitely can't.