XSF Discussion - 2020-01-15

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  150. nyco Help iTeam: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/667 is merged but is not published on https://xmpp.org/category/newsletter.html what did I do wrong?
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  157. jonas’ it’s not published to the blog either
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  160. jonas’ I don’t have my docker hub credentials with me, but if I’d have to take a guess, something went wrong during the build
  161. jonas’ though hub claims everything is fine
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  163. jonas’ cc @ iteam then
  164. jonas’ Kev, can you take a quick look? everything from the outside looks good, ISTM that the docker pull failed on the host maybe for some reason?
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  169. Kev Using default tag: latest latest: Pulling from xmppxsf/xmpp.org Digest: sha256:22a2df36de36f5905542b3525d32e65ad870b230189c8b8bb1d644fc1720417e Status: Image is up to date for xmppxsf/xmpp.org:latest Latest: sha256:1a30a4ff38277c65de19e213a8c010a28f3e78ddc3dcee7c294d865f60ab11e2 Running: sha256:1a30a4ff38277c65de19e213a8c010a28f3e78ddc3dcee7c294d865f60ab11e2 xmpp.org_website up to date
  170. Kev It believes it's running the latest.
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  175. jonas’ nyco, maybe it’s the spaces in the file name?
  176. jonas’ like it’s the 90ies
  177. jonas’ Kev, can you check the build logs from https://hub.docker.com/r/xmppxsf/xmpp.org/builds/ if there’s anything obvious in there? I don’t have my credentials with me
  178. jonas’ Kev, can you check the build logs of the latest build from https://hub.docker.com/r/xmppxsf/xmpp.org/builds/ if there’s anything obvious in there? I don’t have my credentials with me
  179. Kev They all show as building successfully.
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  181. jonas’ yes, but pelican might’ve lied
  182. jonas’ possibly because it didn’t consider the issue fatal
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  184. jonas’ I’ve seen pelican builds pass without non-zero exit code where no output was generated
  185. Kev https://hub.docker.com/u/xmppxsf/repository/docker/xmppxsf/xmpp.org/builds/8d15cb1c-f9f8-496b-bd5d-60f7af76b39d seems to have no output to me, so I can't really check what happened.
  186. jonas’ derp
  187. jonas’ as usual, thanks
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  189. nyco titles have always had spaces I had on doubt on the timestamp
  190. jonas’ nyco, filename, not title
  191. jonas’ oh yeah, broken timestamp can cause that too
  192. jonas’ but it has the same format as the 2019-12-03 one
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  194. jonas’ my money is on the space in the filename, even though that’s quite 90ies
  195. nyco will try
  196. Kev Seems to me just that that docker hub's log showing is broken :/
  197. jonas’ Kev, yeah, has been for ages :(
  198. jonas’ sometimes you see something, but most of the time you don’t
  199. jonas’ ah, but we can check the travis build
  200. Kev So why did you ask me to go looking? :p
  201. jonas’ Kev, because I couldn’t even check that
  202. jonas’ and *sometimes* you get output
  203. jonas’ WARNING: Could not process posts/newsletter/Newsletter for 2020-01-10.md Failed loading extension "codehilite(css_class=highlight)".
  204. jonas’ is that new?
  205. jonas’ it shows for *all* posts: https://travis-ci.org/xsf/xmpp.org/jobs/636891227?utm_medium=notification&utm_source=github_status
  206. jonas’ > Done: Processed 0 articles and 1 pages in 0.42 seconds.
  207. jonas’ reads pretty bad
  208. jonas’ I’m surprised that we still have any page up actually
  209. nyco https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/668
  210. jonas’ ISTM I lost merge privileges on the repository
  211. jonas’ (nevermind, just me being stupid)
  212. jonas’ No really, I don’t have +w anymore
  213. jonas’ so I can’t really do anything
  214. jonas’ if the fix from nyco does not help (I don’t expect it to help), I strongly suggest to try: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/621
  215. jonas’ though that has the same travis output *shrug*
  216. Kev The Pelican stuff is all a black box to me. nyco: Did it build for you locally?
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  220. jonas’ (FTR, that website never built correctly for me locally, though I have multiple pelican-based projects which work just fine)
  221. jonas’ (something is weird about the xmpp.org setup, and I don’t know what it is)
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  224. nyco I don't know how to build locally? btw, build what? I dunno what I'm doing here
  225. jonas’ build the website
  226. jonas’ html from md
  227. jonas’ calling `make html` essentially
  228. jonas’ but if you’ve never done that, you probably need dependencies & stuff
  229. nyco ok
  230. nyco ok, I'll commute from home to co-working space
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  233. jonas’ nyco, I can take a deeper look once I’m at home, though that won’t be before 15:00Z most likely
  234. jonas’ ping me then if the issue is still unresolved
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  238. nyco oh, it's online!
  239. nyco who did what?
  240. nyco just the filename change?
  241. nyco so, it was because of me, sorry...
  242. Kev I suspect so, but don't know. I've not touched anything, and Jonas said he'd not be able to look for a while.
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  245. jonas’ I didn’t do anything, and I don’t have any privileges on that repo anymore
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  247. jonas’ so the spaces in the filename. like in the 90ies
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  259. jonas’ PSA: Do not use JIDs as file/folder names in interoperable or portable applications: - Each individual part on a JID can be 1023 bytes long, which is longer than the typical path component limit on Linux (255 bytes) - The localpart can contain backslashes. Have fun with that on Windows. - The casefolding specified in the XMPP RFCs may differ from the casefolding the FS does, and it may map the different JIDs to the same dir entry (no proof for that, but we all know Unicode). - If you store JIDs which may be full JIDs, they have a forward slash which will cause fun on non-Windows systems. I personally would recommend JID | hash-function | base32 to deal with all of those issues, but I’m interested to hear about other techniques.
  260. Ge0rG SHA1 to the rescue!
  261. pep. I'm anticipating the following: "I'm using a real database I'm fine!" :-°
  262. jonas’ pep., though MySQL has weird limits on VARCHAR length / index size, which causes its own bunch of troubles
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  264. jonas’ oh wait, you said real database.
  265. jonas’ nevermind.
  266. pep. that was a joke anyway
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  268. Ge0rG I'm doing horrible things to JIDs before I put them into SQLite
  269. jonas’ unspeakable things even?
  270. Ge0rG those, too
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  274. Kev Unpronounceable things?
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  295. flow what's the recommended xmpp client for mac users?
  296. jonas’ debian
  297. Daniel > debian 👍
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  299. Daniel Beagle maybe. But don't get your hopes up
  300. Kev I use Swift, obviously.
  301. larma How about Dino? 😀
  302. larma How much does the person want to suffer?
  303. jonas’ if they want to suffer a lot, Adium
  304. larma converse maybe is a good suggestion?
  305. larma nobody said native macOS 😀
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  307. jubalh > what's the recommended xmpp client for mac users? I also use converse js for all my MSC friends. The rest never worked fully
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  312. flow thanks everyone :)
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  316. ralphm jonas’, I dig your recommendation for debian to mac users.
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  326. Ge0rG Put converse inside Electron and call it MacChat
  327. dwd I think Gajim works OK, from what I remember.
  328. jonas’ Ge0rG, needs web push first
  329. dwd Thinking on from JC Brand and I chatting on Twitter about hosted email providers, could Board see about negotiating an XSF Member discount for this kind of thing?
  330. jonas’ ⁻ENOCTX
  331. dwd jonas’, Doesn't need to be really, but https://twitter.com/DwdDave/status/1217423901619314688 and back from there.
  332. pep. Why would the XSF work on putting forward one provider? (#neutrality)
  333. Ge0rG Heinlein is a charismatic guy! Forget neutrality!
  334. pep. :)
  335. MattJ Especially Fastmail, since they dropped XMPP from their offering
  336. Ge0rG dwd: membership is open to anyone, sou you'd end up with new XSF applicants who want to cheap out on fastmail/mailbox/whatever.
  337. MattJ I likewise don't see the relevance
  338. Ge0rG #badincentives
  339. MattJ Ge0rG, increase in year-on-year membership growth, success!
  340. Ge0rG MattJ: mailbox.org xmpp is also a second class citizen in their admin team
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  343. Wojtek > <Daniel> Beagle maybe. But don't get your hopes up how so?
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  415. moparisthebest can the XSF's mailman please be fixed? compare https://burtrum.org/up/dfd62b36-758e-46cd-aa6e-66382677fc86/open-screeny-5489.png to https://burtrum.org/up/be21a3c4-bb89-4736-8b7a-2bb4f9ee4345/open-screeny-5405.png
  416. moparisthebest "fixed" as in, don't add the footer breaking DKIM please
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  419. pep. What possibly breaks the signature is not the body but the header being changed "[Members]", right?
  420. pep. At least for the first mail in the thread
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  423. moparisthebest depends if the Subject header is signed or not, but yea perhaps that should be changed too
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  457. jonas’ Kev, whom do I need to pester about issues with the council mailing list?
  458. pep. MattJ is iteam now
  459. MattJ What are the issues?
  460. moparisthebest you could say the mailing list breaking DKIM is an encumbrance to participating in the standards process :D
  461. jonas’ MattJ, my mails end up in the moderation queue
  462. moparisthebest also DKIM issues across all mailing lists
  463. Zash across *all* mailing lists. all of them, everywhere.
  464. Zash solution: remove DKIM
  465. jonas’ I second that
  466. moparisthebest bringing back the worse problem of email spoofing
  467. jonas’ s/problem/feature/
  468. jonas’ use GPG if you need to be sure
  469. pep. Google will have a word with you. It doesn't matter if it's bad, Google says DKIM it is.
  470. moparisthebest but we don't have a say in that anyway, DKIM/DMARC is here, and there have been proper ways to configure mailman for years
  471. jonas’ all off-topic though
  472. jonas’ MattJ, I am subscribed with jonas@wielicki.name, judging by the X-Original-To header set by my MTA, but when I send from that address to the list, it gets queued
  473. jonas’ it would be good if I could post messages to council@
  474. moparisthebest properly configuring mailman is off topic?
  475. jonas’ moparisthebest, pretty sure it is
  476. jonas’ you might want to know about iteam@
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  478. moparisthebest I'm not sure if it's just them, it'll require removing the footer for instance, I don't know if that's a board decision or not
  479. jonas’ IMO that’s a purely technical decision, but I see where you’re coming from
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  485. MattJ Sorry, I don't know the list password and everything I've tried fails to let me in
  486. MattJ and too busy to do any further digging atm
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  497. stpeter What's the mailman issue?
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  504. ralphm Indeed, removing footers from mailman mails is definitely not a Board issue, but an iteam one.
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  506. moparisthebest I swear we've discussed it in here before but my searches are failing, List-Unsubscribe was surely mentioned, anyway...
  507. MattJ stpeter, jonas’ is having his emails queued for some reason
  508. moparisthebest it's just that it breaks DKIM, which can be fixed, and that means users on well configured servers miss emails
  509. moparisthebest compare https://burtrum.org/up/dfd62b36-758e-46cd-aa6e-66382677fc86/open-screeny-5489.png to https://burtrum.org/up/be21a3c4-bb89-4736-8b7a-2bb4f9ee4345/open-screeny-5405.png
  510. MattJ Ok, there are two issues currently under discussion :)
  511. moparisthebest yes!
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  520. stpeter jonas’ please ping me directly and I can try to debug it for you
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  528. stpeter Problem solved!
  529. jonas’ <3 thanks
  530. stpeter The Council list is moderated, but I'm happy to unmoderate email addresses of known individuals (and of course jonas' is a Council member!).
  531. jonas’ so next time someone is +council’d they should also set to be unmoderated, note @ iteam
  532. jonas’ (not sure who normally manages list subscriptions)
  533. stpeter Also, to address the bus factor, we might want to assign more lits admins.
  534. Zash A start would be to get MattJ / iteam proper access?
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  537. MattJ I supposedly have access, but may need some pointers
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  543. stpeter I'll make a little HOWTO
  544. jonas’ I can mailman, but I don’t have access
  545. jonas’ I could probably guide someone through the thing
  546. jonas’ (although I think it’s pretty straightforward)
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  548. stpeter It is straightforward.
  549. stpeter I can give more folks access.
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  551. pep. I guess that's up to iteam (to which you are part)
  552. pep. I guess that's up to iteam (of which you are part)
  553. stpeter In my experience, list admins come and go, but I'm here forever. ;-)
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  555. ralphm stpeter: thanks! Keep that up. 💖
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  564. stpeter But hey, bus factor...
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  579. Kev There's already a HOWTO, you (I guess) wrote one years ago :)
  580. Kev And MattJ does have access, at least if he has access to atlas (which I thought he did)
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  582. MattJ There is a how-to and I tried 7 passwords twice before giving up :)
  583. jonas’ whenever I need to access a mailman admin interface, I log into the machine, run the command to reset the list password and move on ;)
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  585. Kev That's less useful on a shared host.
  586. Kev MattJ: The password I had still worked the last time I tried it, at least, which wasn't very long ago.
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  599. moparisthebest anyone have suggestions on how to respond to any of the on-list emails that didn't make it to my inbox?
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  602. pep. If you point me to the email I can give you the header to add (References/Message-ID) :x
  603. pep. Some lists provide an mbox file
  604. pep. It seems ours don't?
  605. moparisthebest ^ that's what I was hoping but I didn't see anything
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  612. ralphm Download the mbox file?
  613. ralphm Don't click on this just for the fun of it, it is big: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards.mbox/standards.mbox
  614. Zash Not Found
  615. ralphm let me find out, I did this before
  616. Zash https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/ has an archive per month
  617. Ge0rG Isn't it linked from the monthly archive?
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  619. ralphm The monthly archive is different I think. Not sure if that's mbox.
  620. ralphm It is gzipped in any case
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  622. Zash Looks like mbox I think?
  623. ralphm Yep, does look like it
  624. !XSF_Martin Last time I wanted to read something in a ML I could just `mutt -f mailinglist.gz`
  625. ralphm yay!
  626. moparisthebest the members@ is what I need in this case, trying that link
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  635. ralphm Zash: the full archive is https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/private/standards.mbox/standards.mbox
  636. ralphm and you need to log in with your list creds
  637. Zash Ah, yes, those.. I remember those. :)
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  691. dwd Is anyone going to Brussels on the Wednesday? I'm wondering whether to get an earlyish train or not. Depends if there's going to be anyone there for a drink when I get there.
  692. Syndace dwd: quite a few people, counting 9 right now
  693. dwd Cool, I'll go for the afternoon train then.
  694. MattJ Me too
  695. dwd MattJ, There's a cheap one I'm booking at 15:04. Happy to pick a seat next to you if you fancy company?
  696. MattJ Sounds great
  697. MattJ Except I can't book mine right now
  698. dwd (As usual, booked the last one going back on Sunday).
  699. MattJ True story: the Eurostar website hates me
  700. MattJ Every year I have the same error: CHECKOUT_706
  701. dwd It hates me, too. Refuses to let me register.
  702. MattJ and every year they can't tell me why
  703. dwd Novel.
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  705. MattJ I've tried different browsers, different payment cards, paypal, different address even
  706. MattJ I have no idea what it's about
  707. MattJ I've tried being logged in, logged out
  708. dwd Different email address?
  709. MattJ I don't know if I've tried that
  710. dwd Tried a false name?
  711. MattJ Because it's always wise to give a false name when crossing the border
  712. dwd This time, perhaps.
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  718. Shell the eurostar website hates everybody, I am the only person in my friend group who can book interrail-discounted eurostar tickets successfully
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  729. dwd Hmmm. I definitely can't.
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