XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2020-01-30


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  143. flow larma, congrats to the 0.1 release of dino :)
  144. edhelas yeah, congrats 🎉 :)
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  148. !XSF_Martin Happy release day 🎂
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  265. marc 🍾
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  380. rion Are there any time limitations for receiving iq result/error?
  381. Zash In theory not
  382. moparisthebest heat death of the universe
  383. Zash Not receiving a response is a protocol violation
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  395. Ge0rG Zash: and therefore it can't happen!
  396. Zash Correct!
  397. Ge0rG rion: the real question is - what do you do with the iq result that arrives after you already went into the timeout handler?
  398. Ge0rG I think that we need to fundamentally change the semantics at the API layer, where you have a timeout only giving an indication that it's taking very long now, but not removing the actual response handler.
  399. Ge0rG OTOH, we had a handler leak in poezio just because of that
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  402. rion Yep. it's what worries me. Assuming I have an app which runs for a very long time.
  403. rion And I mostly merge Psi+ to Psi. Only one patch left, which introduces the timeout
  404. Zash A recently added thing to track IQ stanzas in Prosody (sent by the server itself, not clients) has a default timeout of 2 minutes
  405. rion As far as I understand it has to be very use-case specific. For example for legacy FT a request can wait for a confirmation for hours if not days.
  406. rion Requesting conferences' list on slow connection sometimes takes ages. So everything is relative.
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  408. rion But anyway, it would be nice to have some recommendations about timeouts in the standard and some XEPs
  409. moparisthebest it probably needs to vary wildly based on what you are doing
  410. rion Agree
  411. moparisthebest if you are writing a system designed to talk over satellites it's going to need to be much higher than if you are developing a system to talk between servers on the same 10gbe network
  412. moparisthebest but yea, recommendations for "normal chat clients" would surely be a good idea
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  415. jonas’ timeouts are always wrong :(
  416. lovetox my idea is to not have timeouts
  417. lovetox for IQs, rather i pass the application a cancel handle
  418. lovetox The Application knows best when it does not make any sense anymore to process the response
  419. lovetox so it uses the cancel handle to remove the callback
  420. lovetox this is also important for if the user cancels the process , does not even mean the IQ did take long
  421. jonas’ true
  422. lovetox but if he opens some window that triggers fetching a list via IQ, and just closes it agian
  423. lovetox the application needs to remove the callback response
  424. jonas’ for some automated tasks you’d still want timeouts though
  425. jonas’ for example automated disco#info lookups
  426. jonas’ you don’t want those to accumulate
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  428. lovetox yeah ..
  429. lovetox probably timeouts do make sense in some situations
  430. jonas’ in asyncio, you’d simply properly handle cancellation of the IQ request coroutine and thus allow the user to use asyncio.wait or something like that.
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  432. moparisthebest but it sounds like you are saying your library makes timeouts the application's responsibility? which sounds like the right choice
  433. lovetox but for IQs you cancel the callback and you are fine
  434. lovetox more anoying is stuff like
  435. lovetox muc join
  436. lovetox where you have no way of tracking
  437. lovetox you cant cancel a muc join
  438. jonas’ lovetox, you can send presence unavailable
  439. jonas’ effectively removing yourself from the muc right after
  440. lovetox thats not a cancel
  441. jonas’ you can’t cancel an IQ either
  442. lovetox no, but i can ignore it with simple dont listen for the callback
  443. lovetox and i know the id i have to ignore
  444. lovetox but with mucs, there is no id tracking
  445. lovetox the muc simply starts to spam me with presence, and even messages
  446. jonas’ you track by from and presence type tho
  447. lovetox i have to start ignoring the whole jid
  448. jonas’ yeah, and if a MUC does that, you reply with presence type="unavailable" and possibly message type="error"
  449. lovetox yeah, just saying i find it more annoying, i track now which mucs are in joining state, and if the user clicks abort
  450. lovetox i simply put the muc jid on the ignore list
  451. lovetox which is probably wrong
  452. lovetox because i could get invites from there
  453. lovetox i think i have the ignore list only for presence
  454. lovetox not for messages though
  455. lovetox but you are right, i should respond with presence unavailable
  456. lovetox but again only on the first presence i receive from that muc
  457. lovetox which again i have to track
  458. lovetox what would usefull is, if all join related messages, presence had a join-id attr like we have with mam the queryid attr
  459. lovetox but k muc is really old
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  476. Ge0rG Every MUC is Schrödinger's Chat.
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