XSF Discussion - 2020-01-30


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  143. flow

    larma, congrats to the 0.1 release of dino :)

  144. edhelas

    yeah, congrats 🎉 :)

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  148. !XSF_Martin

    Happy release day 🎂

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  265. marc

    🍾

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  380. rion

    Are there any time limitations for receiving iq result/error?

  381. Zash

    In theory not

  382. moparisthebest

    heat death of the universe

  383. Zash

    Not receiving a response is a protocol violation

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  395. Ge0rG

    Zash: and therefore it can't happen!

  396. Zash

    Correct!

  397. Ge0rG

    rion: the real question is - what do you do with the iq result that arrives after you already went into the timeout handler?

  398. Ge0rG

    I think that we need to fundamentally change the semantics at the API layer, where you have a timeout only giving an indication that it's taking very long now, but not removing the actual response handler.

  399. Ge0rG

    OTOH, we had a handler leak in poezio just because of that

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  402. rion

    Yep. it's what worries me. Assuming I have an app which runs for a very long time.

  403. rion

    And I mostly merge Psi+ to Psi. Only one patch left, which introduces the timeout

  404. Zash

    A recently added thing to track IQ stanzas in Prosody (sent by the server itself, not clients) has a default timeout of 2 minutes

  405. rion

    As far as I understand it has to be very use-case specific. For example for legacy FT a request can wait for a confirmation for hours if not days.

  406. rion

    Requesting conferences' list on slow connection sometimes takes ages. So everything is relative.

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  408. rion

    But anyway, it would be nice to have some recommendations about timeouts in the standard and some XEPs

  409. moparisthebest

    it probably needs to vary wildly based on what you are doing

  410. rion

    Agree

  411. moparisthebest

    if you are writing a system designed to talk over satellites it's going to need to be much higher than if you are developing a system to talk between servers on the same 10gbe network

  412. moparisthebest

    but yea, recommendations for "normal chat clients" would surely be a good idea

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  415. jonas’

    timeouts are always wrong :(

  416. lovetox

    my idea is to not have timeouts

  417. lovetox

    for IQs, rather i pass the application a cancel handle

  418. lovetox

    The Application knows best when it does not make any sense anymore to process the response

  419. lovetox

    so it uses the cancel handle to remove the callback

  420. lovetox

    this is also important for if the user cancels the process , does not even mean the IQ did take long

  421. jonas’

    true

  422. lovetox

    but if he opens some window that triggers fetching a list via IQ, and just closes it agian

  423. lovetox

    the application needs to remove the callback response

  424. jonas’

    for some automated tasks you’d still want timeouts though

  425. jonas’

    for example automated disco#info lookups

  426. jonas’

    you don’t want those to accumulate

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  428. lovetox

    yeah ..

  429. lovetox

    probably timeouts do make sense in some situations

  430. jonas’

    in asyncio, you’d simply properly handle cancellation of the IQ request coroutine and thus allow the user to use asyncio.wait or something like that.

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  432. moparisthebest

    but it sounds like you are saying your library makes timeouts the application's responsibility? which sounds like the right choice

  433. lovetox

    but for IQs you cancel the callback and you are fine

  434. lovetox

    more anoying is stuff like

  435. lovetox

    muc join

  436. lovetox

    where you have no way of tracking

  437. lovetox

    you cant cancel a muc join

  438. jonas’

    lovetox, you can send presence unavailable

  439. jonas’

    effectively removing yourself from the muc right after

  440. lovetox

    thats not a cancel

  441. jonas’

    you can’t cancel an IQ either

  442. lovetox

    no, but i can ignore it with simple dont listen for the callback

  443. lovetox

    and i know the id i have to ignore

  444. lovetox

    but with mucs, there is no id tracking

  445. lovetox

    the muc simply starts to spam me with presence, and even messages

  446. jonas’

    you track by from and presence type tho

  447. lovetox

    i have to start ignoring the whole jid

  448. jonas’

    yeah, and if a MUC does that, you reply with presence type="unavailable" and possibly message type="error"

  449. lovetox

    yeah, just saying i find it more annoying, i track now which mucs are in joining state, and if the user clicks abort

  450. lovetox

    i simply put the muc jid on the ignore list

  451. lovetox

    which is probably wrong

  452. lovetox

    because i could get invites from there

  453. lovetox

    i think i have the ignore list only for presence

  454. lovetox

    not for messages though

  455. lovetox

    but you are right, i should respond with presence unavailable

  456. lovetox

    but again only on the first presence i receive from that muc

  457. lovetox

    which again i have to track

  458. lovetox

    what would usefull is, if all join related messages, presence had a join-id attr like we have with mam the queryid attr

  459. lovetox

    but k muc is really old

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  476. Ge0rG

    Every MUC is Schrödinger's Chat.

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