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flow
larma, congrats to the 0.1 release of dino :)
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edhelas
yeah, congrats 🎉 :)
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!XSF_Martin
Happy release day 🎂
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marc
🍾
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rion
Are there any time limitations for receiving iq result/error?
18:28:09
Zash
In theory not
18:29:02
moparisthebest
heat death of the universe
18:30:34
Zash
Not receiving a response is a protocol violation
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Ge0rG
Zash: and therefore it can't happen!
18:46:23
Zash
Correct!
18:46:33
Ge0rG
rion: the real question is - what do you do with the iq result that arrives after you already went into the timeout handler?
18:47:50
Ge0rG
I think that we need to fundamentally change the semantics at the API layer, where you have a timeout only giving an indication that it's taking very long now, but not removing the actual response handler.
18:48:09
Ge0rG
OTOH, we had a handler leak in poezio just because of that
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rion
Yep. it's what worries me. Assuming I have an app which runs for a very long time.
18:57:56
rion
And I mostly merge Psi+ to Psi. Only one patch left, which introduces the timeout
18:59:15
Zash
A recently added thing to track IQ stanzas in Prosody (sent by the server itself, not clients) has a default timeout of 2 minutes
18:59:18
rion
As far as I understand it has to be very use-case specific. For example for legacy FT a request can wait for a confirmation for hours if not days.
19:01:14
rion
Requesting conferences' list on slow connection sometimes takes ages. So everything is relative.
19:03:19
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rion
But anyway, it would be nice to have some recommendations about timeouts in the standard and some XEPs
19:06:09
moparisthebest
it probably needs to vary wildly based on what you are doing
19:06:27
rion
Agree
19:06:40
moparisthebest
if you are writing a system designed to talk over satellites it's going to need to be much higher than if you are developing a system to talk between servers on the same 10gbe network
19:07:00
moparisthebest
but yea, recommendations for "normal chat clients" would surely be a good idea
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jonas’
timeouts are always wrong :(
19:16:47
lovetox
my idea is to not have timeouts
19:17:06
lovetox
for IQs, rather i pass the application a cancel handle
19:17:38
lovetox
The Application knows best when it does not make any sense anymore to process the response
19:18:15
lovetox
so it uses the cancel handle to remove the callback
19:19:01
lovetox
this is also important for if the user cancels the process , does not even mean the IQ did take long
19:19:11
jonas’
true
19:19:17
lovetox
but if he opens some window that triggers fetching a list via IQ, and just closes it agian
19:19:27
lovetox
the application needs to remove the callback response
19:19:42
jonas’
for some automated tasks you’d still want timeouts though
19:19:50
jonas’
for example automated disco#info lookups
19:19:56
jonas’
you don’t want those to accumulate
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lovetox
yeah ..
19:20:41
lovetox
probably timeouts do make sense in some situations
19:21:21
jonas’
in asyncio, you’d simply properly handle cancellation of the IQ request coroutine and thus allow the user to use asyncio.wait or something like that.
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moparisthebest
but it sounds like you are saying your library makes timeouts the application's responsibility? which sounds like the right choice
19:22:14
lovetox
but for IQs you cancel the callback and you are fine
19:22:20
lovetox
more anoying is stuff like
19:22:21
lovetox
muc join
19:22:26
lovetox
where you have no way of tracking
19:22:31
lovetox
you cant cancel a muc join
19:22:38
jonas’
lovetox, you can send presence unavailable
19:22:45
jonas’
effectively removing yourself from the muc right after
19:22:46
lovetox
thats not a cancel
19:22:53
jonas’
you can’t cancel an IQ either
19:23:12
lovetox
no, but i can ignore it with simple dont listen for the callback
19:23:18
lovetox
and i know the id i have to ignore
19:23:25
lovetox
but with mucs, there is no id tracking
19:23:35
lovetox
the muc simply starts to spam me with presence, and even messages
19:23:38
jonas’
you track by from and presence type tho
19:23:45
lovetox
i have to start ignoring the whole jid
19:23:50
jonas’
yeah, and if a MUC does that, you reply with presence type="unavailable" and possibly message type="error"
19:24:32
lovetox
yeah, just saying i find it more annoying, i track now which mucs are in joining state, and if the user clicks abort
19:24:42
lovetox
i simply put the muc jid on the ignore list
19:24:45
lovetox
which is probably wrong
19:24:53
lovetox
because i could get invites from there
19:25:23
lovetox
i think i have the ignore list only for presence
19:25:28
lovetox
not for messages though
19:25:59
lovetox
but you are right, i should respond with presence unavailable
19:26:09
lovetox
but again only on the first presence i receive from that muc
19:26:14
lovetox
which again i have to track
19:27:06
lovetox
what would usefull is, if all join related messages, presence had a join-id attr like we have with mam the queryid attr
19:27:46
lovetox
but k muc is really old
19:28:21
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Every MUC is Schrödinger's Chat.
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