XSF Discussion - 2020-02-04

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  107. jonas’ yay
  108. jonas’ a colleage brought a proper XMPP sticker from fosdem
  109. jonas’ I can finally get rid of my ugly square one
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  144. Guus jonas’: 🤘
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  202. fippo when one googles for "xep-0391" google thinks it was published in 1969... because the date in the example is 1969-07-21...
  203. MattJ Hah
  204. Zash Having looked into this, I'd strongly recommend staying away from it if you value your sanity.
  205. Zash Oh neither of Google and DuckDuckGo understands the dates on prosody.im still? I thoguht I got at least one of them to understand 😞
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  207. fippo oh yes 0202 (entity time) is even better. the publication date is right (2009), then continues with a date from 2006 and a random paragraph about jabber:iq:time. Clearly googlebot is drunk
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  216. Zash IIRC there's no sane way to set a 'last modified' time on a web page.
  217. Zash Most of the various ways you can set a date is "created" or similar
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  234. ralphm fippo: I think it just finds the very first full ISO timestamp (with a T in it), which for XEP-0202 is indeed 2006-12-19T17:58:35Z. And it is not a random paragraph, is it? It is the first paragraph of the main text?
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  239. MattJ Heh, relevant reading made it to the top of HN: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wkumari-not-a-draft-06
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  241. ralphm heh
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  251. Guus the SCAM work team has taken op the challenge to generate some leaflets, folders an the like that provide information about XMPP. For starters, we'll re-use content from the website. I'd like everyone to review the text on the website to see if the content is still relevant/up-to-date. Of particular interest: https://xmpp.org/about/technology-overview.html https://xmpp.org/about/myths.html https://xmpp.org/about/faq.html but maybe other pages too.
  252. Guus I welcome your PR's 🙂
  253. Guus (thank you)
  254. ralphm If we had team mentions, I'd tag @commteam.
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  256. ralphm But I'll have another look myself, too. Great idea.
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  264. nyco oh hey, a mention!
  265. nyco what was that about?
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  274. ralphm nyco: just what was written above by Guus about leaflets.
  275. flow Today in the news: MLS encumbered? https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4015/
  276. pep. oops
  277. flow I remember that (likely) this patent, Qrypt Inc. and MLS where on HN(?) a while ago
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  286. winfried flow: interesting, I haven't time nor energy to read the patent right now, but if it is patenting double ratchet in 2016 then it seems to be quite futile to me...
  287. larma winfried, I think the relevant part is the epoch key exchange (instead of with every message like signal/omemo/olm do)
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  291. larma They do reference the signal protocol as prior art in the field, so copycats of signal protocol like omemo/olm don't need to care that patent
  292. moparisthebest well that's clearly worse than GPL
  293. winfried Does MLS use epoch keys? (still no time nor energy to confirm myself)
  294. larma moparisthebest, if I understand Dave's mail correctly, he agrees there are no GPL issues with omemo per se. he seems to be fine with omemo being based on signal protocol as long as there is documentation of how to use olm for that (so there are easy instructions how to do omemo without using gpl libraries) - that however can't be a requirement for a XEP in general IMO (it should be perfectly fine if there is only a GPL implementation as long as the only reason there is no non-gpl implementation is the fact that nobody wanted to write one)
  295. larma winfried, that's what I understood, but I also haven't read the current spec
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  298. moparisthebest sorry, I was mainly joking that "only GPL users are guaranteed legally to be able to use this spec" is clearly a better situation than "some company owns a patent on it and no one can use it"
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  302. larma moparisthebest, usually you can still use patented stuff as long as you don't do it commercially, but yeah I agree patents are worse than GPL in general
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  304. vanitasvitae flow: you mean this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21954006
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  307. ralphm larma: the commercial use does make it an issue for us. Unsure about the IETF.
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  310. vanitasvitae Some discussion around it: https://mobile.twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1213356702399115267
  311. pep. is there a definition of "commercial" somewhere btw
  312. ralphm Hey, an ex-colleague
  313. moparisthebest not one across all jurisdictions, of course patents don't apply across all either
  314. pep. to know in what context we're using it
  315. ralphm pep., the problem is in the phrase "as long as you don't". Everything that follows is an incumbrance.
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  320. Holger https://xmpp.org/about/technology-overview.html links to https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc7622.html which returns 404 ...
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  324. intosi That's likely to be true for more links to the IETF then.
  325. intosi That's likely to be true for more links to the RFCs then.
  326. Holger https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html and 6121 work ...
  327. pep. why do we not link to the ietf?
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  330. moparisthebest could probably work up a rewrite to 302 to the ietf on any of those
  331. Holger pep.: Probably to be 100% sure the link won't go dead? ;-)
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  333. moparisthebest and how's that working out :)
  334. intosi We never hosted 7622 in the first place.
  335. intosi Only 3920, 3921, 3922, 3923, 4622, 4854, 5122, 6120, 6121, and 6122.
  336. Holger Well we link it.
  337. intosi Indeed we do.
  338. dwd For those not in summit, does anyone have a fever, cough, bad chest etc?
  339. Guus He means: for everyone that is not in the summit muc, but attended the XMPP summit and/or FOSDEM in Brussels last week.
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  345. dwd That, yes.
  346. pep. dwd, something something virus?
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  350. jonas’ well, I do have a cough but unless webex now transmits diseases, that’s probably unrelated.
  351. moparisthebest nope you only get the DRM disease from that
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  355. dwd pep., I have potential 2019 Novel Coronavirus. It's fun.
  356. pep. Interesting.
  357. pep. Tbh I was expecting some kind of epidemic at FOSDEM :)
  358. pep. (#notspreadingfear)
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  363. jonas’ oh dear
  364. jonas’ dwd, I hope you get well soon
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  366. jonas’ I shouldn’t have talked about how to get rid of europes hackers by poisining mate at conferences too loudly in the other room, it seems /conspiracies
  367. pep. It happened.
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  370. dwd Well, thankfully I'm informed I'm very low risk.
  371. intosi Once more ;)
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  596. ralphm Also, I believe this weekend was the start of the 'regular' flu season in Belgium, so there's that.
  597. Zash Maybe it's because of FOSDEM? :P
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