XSF Discussion - 2020-02-13


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  161. jubalh I just saw in Profanitys code that it actually only sends request receipts if the capabilities of the other client support this. We had a similar discussion about LMC yesterday. So I think this is wrong and should actually always send them (if enabled) because we dont know which client the other user uses. Correct?
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  164. Holger +1
  165. jubalh I will look out for more such cases now :)
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  167. pep. I'm quite torn with this "send everything anyway" policy tbh. I understand why, but then I feel that forces us to come with ugly "fallback" things that I don't like, "because some clients don't support what we send"
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  171. jubalh hmm but it wont hurt them?
  172. jubalh It will just be some more data send and they wont parse it. and if they are connected with another client they still get the + there
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  174. pep. I'm not happy about the fallback things, not about the "too much" :P
  175. pep. But that's also an argument for some I guess, "too much"
  176. jubalh what do you mean by fallback?
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  180. Zash Having this feature negotiation was one of the big things that makes XMPP better than email. And now we apparently don't have it anymore :(
  181. MattJ I know some kind of "user capabilities" was discussed at the summit (some kind of merging of device capabilities)
  182. MattJ I'm not really a fan of that idea though
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  204. Ge0rG It would be great to be able to loudly proclaim that I'm incapable of OMEMO, no matter what some clients of me claim.
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  227. MattJ That's easily done today
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  230. jonas’ is it?
  231. jonas’ because I want that
  232. jonas’ but LTIC it wasn’t possible because Conversations won’t trust anything the server could’ve said.
  233. pep. You need to remove every keys yeah, and even then the sender needs to disable e2ee because it's on by default, otherwise they get a "Failed to send" or sth :/
  234. jonas’ and prevent clients from re-publishing keys
  235. jonas’ and prevent clients from using cached keys
  236. flow that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
  237. flow that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it, after has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
  238. jonas’ I haven’t enabled it though.
  239. pep. you "have", unwillingly :p
  240. Ge0rG flow: did you just do LMC?
  241. jonas’ a client did that without asking me
  242. pep. yeah that
  243. Ge0rG jonas’: how dare you installing post-modern clients?
  244. jonas’ I’m not into non-consensual non-consensual stuff.
  245. Ge0rG "no means no!"
  246. jonas’ Ge0rG, I needed multi-account support and stuff
  247. Ge0rG there is a v6 fork, why not also a NOMEMO fork?
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  252. dwd jonas’, Should we be doing anything with XEP-0429, like Last Calling it?
  253. jonas’ dwd, yes most definitely
  254. jonas’ lost track of that one
  255. jonas’ can you add it to the SoD?
  256. dwd jonas’, Done.
  257. jonas’ thx
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  282. ralphm Sorry, I have to skip today. Work.
  283. MattJ No worries
  284. pep. !
  285. flow Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the messagen from history, modify it and sent it
  286. flow Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the message from history, modify it and sent it
  287. flow but I am learning
  288. Ge0rG flow: it doesn't.
  289. Ge0rG flow: I was actually worried that you used a client that generates LMCs that neither of my clients can parse
  290. pep. Trello has nothing for us, I still haven't sent stuff I wanted to discuss (my fault, and I don't want to hijack board meetings to discuss new ideas, that goes on list.), I guess this meeting if it happens is going to be quick
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  293. pep. Seve, Guus?
  294. MattJ I'm fine with skipping
  295. Guus connectivity issues
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  297. pep. A wild Seve appeared a few minutes ago in another channel.
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  299. Guus my internet connection is flaky
  300. Guus I don't mind skipping a week
  301. Seve Yes, sorry
  302. Seve Very much on the same page as you guys
  303. pep. Nothing to add to the agenda then?
  304. Seve Thanks for the ping pep. Btw :)
  305. pep. Ok. See you next week. /me warps back into the nothingness
  306. Ge0rG nothinglessness?
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  311. winfried Has anyone played with this: https://products.office.com/en/business/microsoft-kaizala or analysed it? I spoke a representative of Microsoft Netherlands and he told it is a recently acquired by MS and that it is XMPP based. He seems to be willing to start an internal lobby in MS to give it an external XMPP interface.
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  314. MattJ Not familiar with it, no
  315. Ge0rG winfried: apparently it's included in my o365 subscription, and the first thing it asks for is my mobile number
  316. winfried Ge0rG: :-s listening to the discussion I already had the impression they would some strange things with identity....
  317. winfried I don't have an o365 subscription, so I couldn't test / debug it...
  318. Ge0rG I'm not sure I should try it.
  319. moparisthebest didn't microsoft just kill their (already optional) xmpp interface for "skype for business"
  320. dwd moparisthebest, That was, IIRC, hanging about primarily to support mandatory XMPP usage inside US (and other ) militaries.
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  322. moparisthebest https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/skypeforbusiness/migration/migrating-xmpp-federation
  323. moparisthebest > The XMPP functionality is no longer available and is deprecated in Skype for Business Server 2019.
  324. winfried moparisthebest: probable, the representative wasn't sure if the higher gods would decide to rewrite kaizala to something non-XMPP :-(
  325. dwd I wonder what the API and action card stuff looks like.
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  328. Ge0rG winfried: first thing the app asks for is phone book access.
  329. Ge0rG it looks a bit like Conversations. But maybe all IM apps do?
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  331. winfried Ge0rG: *sigh* they are all the same... https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacyLua/blob/master/README.md
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  333. winfried Ge0rG: thanks for looking BTW...
  334. Ge0rG winfried: they have some really interesting (read: weird) social aspects. You can not create a group without access to the phonebook.
  335. Ge0rG There are three ways to find existing groups: by your location (nearby); by QR code and by a numeric(?) code
  336. Ge0rG oh, public groups are in the "discover" tab
  337. winfried Ge0rG: I guess they use the phone number as some kind of user id. An idea that was fortunately rejected already. :-D
  338. Ge0rG winfried: looks like they are indeed.
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  340. Ge0rG there are 4.5k users in the Office 365 tech room
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  342. Ge0rG I'm pretty sure they aren't using MUC for that
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  344. winfried Interesting!
  345. Ge0rG Also looks like many Indians in there. And things like "how do I get rid of this group" ;)
  346. winfried It is build in India, became populair in India and China and was purchased by MS
  347. winfried They want to have a whatsapp killer
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  491. moparisthebest flow: since quic supports network roaming across the same connection I'm not sure it'd make sense to smacks over it, I haven't put a ton of thought into it though
  492. Zash MPTCP is apparently in the next Linux version, so maybe we can have that without reinventing the entire stack from scratch
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