XSF Discussion - 2020-02-13

I just saw in Profanitys code that it actually only sends request receipts if the capabilities of the other client support this. We had a similar discussion about LMC yesterday. So I think this is wrong and should actually always send them (if enabled) because we dont know which client the other user uses. Correct?

+1

I will look out for more such cases now :)

I'm quite torn with this "send everything anyway" policy tbh. I understand why, but then I feel that forces us to come with ugly "fallback" things that I don't like, "because some clients don't support what we send"

hmm but it wont hurt them?

It will just be some more data send and they wont parse it. and if they are connected with another client they still get the + there

I'm not happy about the fallback things, not about the "too much" :P

But that's also an argument for some I guess, "too much"

what do you mean by fallback?

Having this feature negotiation was one of the big things that makes XMPP better than email. And now we apparently don't have it anymore :(

I know some kind of "user capabilities" was discussed at the summit (some kind of merging of device capabilities)

I'm not really a fan of that idea though

It would be great to be able to loudly proclaim that I'm incapable of OMEMO, no matter what some clients of me claim.

That's easily done today

is it?

because I want that

but LTIC it wasn’t possible because Conversations won’t trust anything the server could’ve said.

You need to remove every keys yeah, and even then the sender needs to disable e2ee because it's on by default, otherwise they get a "Failed to send" or sth :/

and prevent clients from re-publishing keys

and prevent clients from using cached keys

that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier

that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it, after has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier

I haven’t enabled it though.

you "have", unwillingly :p

flow: did you just do LMC?

a client did that without asking me

yeah that

jonas’: how dare you installing post-modern clients?

I’m not into non-consensual non-consensual stuff.

"no means no!"

Ge0rG, I needed multi-account support and stuff

there is a v6 fork, why not also a NOMEMO fork?

jonas’, Should we be doing anything with XEP-0429, like Last Calling it?

dwd, yes most definitely

lost track of that one

can you add it to the SoD?

jonas’, Done.

thx

Sorry, I have to skip today. Work.

No worries

!

Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the message from history, modify it and sent it ✏

but I am learning

flow: it doesn't.

flow: I was actually worried that you used a client that generates LMCs that neither of my clients can parse

Trello has nothing for us, I still haven't sent stuff I wanted to discuss (my fault, and I don't want to hijack board meetings to discuss new ideas, that goes on list.), I guess this meeting if it happens is going to be quick

Seve, Guus?

I'm fine with skipping

connectivity issues

A wild Seve appeared a few minutes ago in another channel.

my internet connection is flaky

I don't mind skipping a week

Yes, sorry

Very much on the same page as you guys

Nothing to add to the agenda then?

Thanks for the ping pep. Btw :)

Ok. See you next week. /me warps back into the nothingness

nothinglessness?

Has anyone played with this: https://products.office.com/en/business/microsoft-kaizala or analysed it? I spoke a representative of Microsoft Netherlands and he told it is a recently acquired by MS and that it is XMPP based. He seems to be willing to start an internal lobby in MS to give it an external XMPP interface.

Not familiar with it, no

winfried: apparently it's included in my o365 subscription, and the first thing it asks for is my mobile number

Ge0rG: :-s listening to the discussion I already had the impression they would some strange things with identity....

I don't have an o365 subscription, so I couldn't test / debug it...

I'm not sure I should try it.

didn't microsoft just kill their (already optional) xmpp interface for "skype for business"

moparisthebest, That was, IIRC, hanging about primarily to support mandatory XMPP usage inside US (and other ) militaries.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/skypeforbusiness/migration/migrating-xmpp-federation

> The XMPP functionality is no longer available and is deprecated in Skype for Business Server 2019.

moparisthebest: probable, the representative wasn't sure if the higher gods would decide to rewrite kaizala to something non-XMPP :-(

I wonder what the API and action card stuff looks like.

winfried: first thing the app asks for is phone book access.

it looks a bit like Conversations. But maybe all IM apps do?

Ge0rG: *sigh* they are all the same... https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacyLua/blob/master/README.md

Ge0rG: thanks for looking BTW...

winfried: they have some really interesting (read: weird) social aspects. You can not create a group without access to the phonebook.

There are three ways to find existing groups: by your location (nearby); by QR code and by a numeric(?) code

oh, public groups are in the "discover" tab

Ge0rG: I guess they use the phone number as some kind of user id. An idea that was fortunately rejected already. :-D

winfried: looks like they are indeed.

there are 4.5k users in the Office 365 tech room

I'm pretty sure they aren't using MUC for that

Interesting!

Also looks like many Indians in there. And things like "how do I get rid of this group" ;)

It is build in India, became populair in India and China and was purchased by MS

They want to have a whatsapp killer

🌷

flow: since quic supports network roaming across the same connection I'm not sure it'd make sense to smacks over it, I haven't put a ton of thought into it though

MPTCP is apparently in the next Linux version, so maybe we can have that without reinventing the entire stack from scratch