I just saw in Profanitys code that it actually only sends request receipts if the capabilities of the other client support this. We had a similar discussion about LMC yesterday. So I think this is wrong and should actually always send them (if enabled) because we dont know which client the other user uses. Correct?
lskdjfhas joined
lskdjfhas left
Holger
+1
jubalh
I will look out for more such cases now :)
Maxhas left
pep.
I'm quite torn with this "send everything anyway" policy tbh. I understand why, but then I feel that forces us to come with ugly "fallback" things that I don't like, "because some clients don't support what we send"
APachhas left
APachhas joined
debaclehas joined
jubalh
hmm but it wont hurt them?
jubalh
It will just be some more data send and they wont parse it. and if they are connected with another client they still get the + there
lskdjfhas joined
pep.
I'm not happy about the fallback things, not about the "too much" :P
pep.
But that's also an argument for some I guess, "too much"
jubalh
what do you mean by fallback?
mukt2has joined
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
Zash
Having this feature negotiation was one of the big things that makes XMPP better than email. And now we apparently don't have it anymore :(
MattJ
I know some kind of "user capabilities" was discussed at the summit (some kind of merging of device capabilities)
MattJ
I'm not really a fan of that idea though
mukt2has left
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
curenhas left
mukt2has joined
paulhas left
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
paulhas joined
Maxhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Maxhas left
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
mukt2has left
Maxhas joined
pdurbinhas left
mukt2has joined
Ge0rG
It would be great to be able to loudly proclaim that I'm incapable of OMEMO, no matter what some clients of me claim.
Alexhas left
!XSF_Martinhas left
!XSF_Martinhas joined
davidhas left
Alexhas joined
Shellhas left
davidhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Marchas left
Marchas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Alexhas left
Alexhas joined
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
mukt2has left
Shellhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
MattJ
That's easily done today
andrey.ghas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
jonas’
is it?
jonas’
because I want that
jonas’
but LTIC it wasn’t possible because Conversations won’t trust anything the server could’ve said.
pep.
You need to remove every keys yeah, and even then the sender needs to disable e2ee because it's on by default, otherwise they get a "Failed to send" or sth :/
jonas’
and prevent clients from re-publishing keys
jonas’
and prevent clients from using cached keys
flow
that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
flow
that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it, after has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
jonas’
I haven’t enabled it though.
pep.
you "have", unwillingly :p
Ge0rG
flow: did you just do LMC?
jonas’
a client did that without asking me
pep.
yeah that
Ge0rG
jonas’: how dare you installing post-modern clients?
jonas’
I’m not into non-consensual non-consensual stuff.
Ge0rG
"no means no!"
jonas’
Ge0rG, I needed multi-account support and stuff
Ge0rG
there is a v6 fork, why not also a NOMEMO fork?
mukt2has joined
serge90has left
serge90has joined
curenhas joined
dwd
jonas’, Should we be doing anything with XEP-0429, like Last Calling it?
jonas’
dwd, yes most definitely
jonas’
lost track of that one
jonas’
can you add it to the SoD?
dwd
jonas’, Done.
jonas’
thx
mukt2has left
pdurbinhas joined
pdurbinhas left
DebXWoodyhas left
DebXWoodyhas joined
mukt2has joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
curenhas left
mukt2has left
davidhas left
davidhas joined
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Wojtekhas joined
ajhas joined
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
ajhas left
Dele Olajidehas left
mukt2has joined
mukt2has left
ralphm
Sorry, I have to skip today. Work.
MattJ
No worries
pep.
!
flow
Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the messagen from history, modify it and sent it✎
flow
Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the message from history, modify it and sent it ✏
flow
but I am learning
Ge0rG
flow: it doesn't.
Ge0rG
flow: I was actually worried that you used a client that generates LMCs that neither of my clients can parse
pep.
Trello has nothing for us, I still haven't sent stuff I wanted to discuss (my fault, and I don't want to hijack board meetings to discuss new ideas, that goes on list.), I guess this meeting if it happens is going to be quick
Marchas left
Marchas joined
pep.
Seve, Guus?
MattJ
I'm fine with skipping
Guus
connectivity issues
Dele Olajidehas joined
pep.
A wild Seve appeared a few minutes ago in another channel.
mukt2has joined
Guus
my internet connection is flaky
Guus
I don't mind skipping a week
Seve
Yes, sorry
Seve
Very much on the same page as you guys
pep.
Nothing to add to the agenda then?
Seve
Thanks for the ping pep. Btw :)
pep.
Ok. See you next week. /me warps back into the nothingness
Ge0rG
nothinglessness?
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
winfried
Has anyone played with this: https://products.office.com/en/business/microsoft-kaizala or analysed it? I spoke a representative of Microsoft Netherlands and he told it is a recently acquired by MS and that it is XMPP based. He seems to be willing to start an internal lobby in MS to give it an external XMPP interface.
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
MattJ
Not familiar with it, no
Ge0rG
winfried: apparently it's included in my o365 subscription, and the first thing it asks for is my mobile number
winfried
Ge0rG: :-s listening to the discussion I already had the impression they would some strange things with identity....
winfried
I don't have an o365 subscription, so I couldn't test / debug it...
Ge0rG
I'm not sure I should try it.
moparisthebest
didn't microsoft just kill their (already optional) xmpp interface for "skype for business"
dwd
moparisthebest, That was, IIRC, hanging about primarily to support mandatory XMPP usage inside US (and other ) militaries.
> The XMPP functionality is no longer available and is deprecated in Skype for Business Server 2019.
winfried
moparisthebest: probable, the representative wasn't sure if the higher gods would decide to rewrite kaizala to something non-XMPP :-(
dwd
I wonder what the API and action card stuff looks like.
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
Ge0rG
winfried: first thing the app asks for is phone book access.
Ge0rG
it looks a bit like Conversations. But maybe all IM apps do?
neshtaxmpphas left
winfried
Ge0rG: *sigh* they are all the same... https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacyLua/blob/master/README.md
mukt2has joined
winfried
Ge0rG: thanks for looking BTW...
Ge0rG
winfried: they have some really interesting (read: weird) social aspects. You can not create a group without access to the phonebook.
Ge0rG
There are three ways to find existing groups: by your location (nearby); by QR code and by a numeric(?) code
Ge0rG
oh, public groups are in the "discover" tab
winfried
Ge0rG: I guess they use the phone number as some kind of user id. An idea that was fortunately rejected already. :-D
Ge0rG
winfried: looks like they are indeed.
mukt2has left
Ge0rG
there are 4.5k users in the Office 365 tech room
pdurbinhas joined
Ge0rG
I'm pretty sure they aren't using MUC for that
mukt2has joined
winfried
Interesting!
Ge0rG
Also looks like many Indians in there. And things like "how do I get rid of this group" ;)
winfried
It is build in India, became populair in India and China and was purchased by MS
winfried
They want to have a whatsapp killer
pdurbinhas left
adiaholichas left
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
adiaholichas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
LNJhas left
LNJhas joined
Zashhas left
Zashhas joined
LNJhas left
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
LNJhas joined
LNJhas left
LNJhas joined
adiaholichas left
neshtaxmpphas joined
adiaholichas joined
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
Dele Olajidehas left
Dele Olajidehas joined
eevvoorhas joined
Maxhas left
Dele Olajidehas left
Maxhas joined
Dele Olajidehas joined
andrey.ghas joined
Dele Olajidehas left
mukt2has left
Dele Olajidehas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
vanitasvitaehas joined
mukt2has joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Dele Olajidehas left
Dele Olajidehas joined
romeohas left
pdurbinhas joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
Steve Killehas left
Maxhas left
pdurbinhas left
Maxhas joined
Maxhas left
Maxhas joined
Maxhas left
Steve Killehas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
debaclehas left
lovetoxhas joined
Dele Olajidehas left
Dele Olajidehas joined
vanitasvitaehas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
vanitasvitaehas joined
waqashas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
vanitasvitaehas joined
Steve Killehas left
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
LNJhas left
Yagizahas left
LNJhas joined
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
Dele Olajidehas left
Steve Killehas joined
Maxhas joined
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
Maxhas left
Marchas left
Marchas joined
Maxhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
Tobiashas left
Tobiashas joined
debaclehas joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
pdurbinhas joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
paulhas left
mukt2has left
mukt2has joined
paulhas joined
mathijshas left
mathijshas joined
pdurbinhas left
Tobiashas left
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
Maxhas left
Maxhas joined
mukt2has left
neshtaxmpphas left
neshtaxmpphas joined
mohamadhas joined
Shellhas left
mukt2has joined
mohamad
🌷
Marchas left
Marchas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
mohamadhas left
Shellhas joined
Douglas Terabytehas left
Douglas Terabytehas joined
paulhas left
mukt2has left
pdurbinhas joined
pdurbinhas left
paulhas joined
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
Tobiashas joined
eevvoorhas left
moparisthebest
flow: since quic supports network roaming across the same connection I'm not sure it'd make sense to smacks over it, I haven't put a ton of thought into it though
Zash
MPTCP is apparently in the next Linux version, so maybe we can have that without reinventing the entire stack from scratch