XSF Discussion - 2020-02-13

  1. mukt2 has left
  2. j.r has joined
  3. Shell has left
  4. Shell has joined
  5. pdurbin has joined
  6. pdurbin has left
  7. mukt2 has joined
  8. Zash has left
  9. moparisthebest has left
  10. debacle has left
  11. Max has left
  12. Max has joined
  13. mukt2 has left
  14. mukt2 has joined
  15. Shell has left
  16. moparisthebest has joined
  17. waqas has joined
  18. mukt2 has left
  19. mukt2 has joined
  20. david has left
  21. david has joined
  22. karoshi has left
  23. mukt2 has left
  24. neshtaxmpp has left
  25. adiaholic has left
  26. adiaholic has joined
  27. larma has left
  28. Nekit has joined
  29. larma has joined
  30. romeo has joined
  31. pdurbin has joined
  32. david has left
  33. Yagiza has joined
  34. adiaholic has left
  35. adiaholic has joined
  36. lskdjf has left
  37. adiaholic has left
  38. adiaholic has joined
  39. david has joined
  40. david has left
  41. david has joined
  42. Yagiza has left
  43. Yagiza has joined
  44. mukt2 has joined
  45. andy has joined
  46. david has left
  47. david has joined
  48. adiaholic has left
  49. adiaholic has joined
  50. lorddavidiii has joined
  51. goffi has joined
  52. adiaholic has left
  53. adiaholic has joined
  54. mimi89999 has left
  55. mukt2 has left
  56. mimi89999 has joined
  57. LNJ has joined
  58. david has left
  59. debxwoody has joined
  60. david has joined
  61. Tobias has joined
  62. neshtaxmpp has joined
  63. goffi has left
  64. goffi has joined
  65. goffi has left
  66. goffi has joined
  67. mukt2 has joined
  68. goffi has left
  69. goffi has joined
  70. mukt2 has left
  71. mukt2 has joined
  72. karoshi has joined
  73. mukt2 has left
  74. LNJ has left
  75. david has left
  76. david has joined
  77. david has left
  78. mukt2 has joined
  79. david has joined
  80. alameyo has left
  81. alameyo has joined
  82. mukt2 has left
  83. mathijs has left
  84. mathijs has joined
  85. mukt2 has joined
  86. debxwoody has left
  87. mimi89999 has left
  88. debxwoody has joined
  89. debxwoody has left
  90. mimi89999 has joined
  91. david has left
  92. debxwoody has joined
  93. mukt2 has left
  94. waqas has left
  95. mathijs has left
  96. mathijs has joined
  97. debacle has joined
  98. Zash has joined
  99. david has joined
  100. mathijs has left
  101. mathijs has joined
  102. mukt2 has joined
  103. david has left
  104. david has joined
  105. mukt2 has left
  106. mukt2 has joined
  107. Steve Kille has left
  108. mukt2 has left
  109. mukt2 has joined
  110. david has left
  111. lorddavidiii has left
  112. david has joined
  113. lorddavidiii has joined
  114. intosi has joined
  115. Dele Olajide has joined
  116. lorddavidiii has left
  117. lorddavidiii has joined
  118. lorddavidiii has left
  119. mukt2 has left
  120. Marc has left
  121. Steve Kille has joined
  122. lorddavidiii has joined
  123. Marc has joined
  124. lorddavidiii has left
  125. mukt2 has joined
  126. lorddavidiii has joined
  127. lorddavidiii has left
  128. lorddavidiii has joined
  129. mukt2 has left
  130. david has left
  131. david has joined
  132. debxwoody has left
  133. mukt2 has joined
  134. lorddavidiii has left
  135. lorddavidiii has joined
  136. j.r has left
  137. lorddavidiii has left
  138. lorddavidiii has joined
  139. lorddavidiii has left
  140. lorddavidiii has joined
  141. mukt2 has left
  142. mukt2 has joined
  143. Max has left
  144. Max has joined
  145. mukt2 has left
  146. j.r has joined
  147. Max has left
  148. Max has joined
  149. debacle has left
  150. curen has joined
  151. adiaholic has left
  152. adiaholic has joined
  153. LNJ has joined
  154. Marc has left
  155. Marc has joined
  156. david has left
  157. david has joined
  158. Max has left
  159. Max has joined
  160. Shell has joined
  161. jubalh I just saw in Profanitys code that it actually only sends request receipts if the capabilities of the other client support this. We had a similar discussion about LMC yesterday. So I think this is wrong and should actually always send them (if enabled) because we dont know which client the other user uses. Correct?
  162. lskdjf has joined
  163. lskdjf has left
  164. Holger +1
  165. jubalh I will look out for more such cases now :)
  166. Max has left
  167. pep. I'm quite torn with this "send everything anyway" policy tbh. I understand why, but then I feel that forces us to come with ugly "fallback" things that I don't like, "because some clients don't support what we send"
  168. APach has left
  169. APach has joined
  170. debacle has joined
  171. jubalh hmm but it wont hurt them?
  172. jubalh It will just be some more data send and they wont parse it. and if they are connected with another client they still get the + there
  173. lskdjf has joined
  174. pep. I'm not happy about the fallback things, not about the "too much" :P
  175. pep. But that's also an argument for some I guess, "too much"
  176. jubalh what do you mean by fallback?
  177. mukt2 has joined
  178. adiaholic has left
  179. adiaholic has joined
  180. Zash Having this feature negotiation was one of the big things that makes XMPP better than email. And now we apparently don't have it anymore :(
  181. MattJ I know some kind of "user capabilities" was discussed at the summit (some kind of merging of device capabilities)
  182. MattJ I'm not really a fan of that idea though
  183. mukt2 has left
  184. sonny has left
  185. sonny has joined
  186. curen has left
  187. mukt2 has joined
  188. paul has left
  189. mathijs has left
  190. mathijs has joined
  191. mathijs has left
  192. mathijs has joined
  193. paul has joined
  194. Max has joined
  195. lorddavidiii has left
  196. lorddavidiii has joined
  197. Max has left
  198. adiaholic has left
  199. adiaholic has joined
  200. mukt2 has left
  201. Max has joined
  202. pdurbin has left
  203. mukt2 has joined
  204. Ge0rG It would be great to be able to loudly proclaim that I'm incapable of OMEMO, no matter what some clients of me claim.
  205. Alex has left
  206. !XSF_Martin has left
  207. !XSF_Martin has joined
  208. david has left
  209. Alex has joined
  210. Shell has left
  211. david has joined
  212. lorddavidiii has left
  213. lorddavidiii has joined
  214. Marc has left
  215. Marc has joined
  216. lorddavidiii has left
  217. lorddavidiii has joined
  218. Alex has left
  219. Alex has joined
  220. adiaholic has left
  221. adiaholic has joined
  222. lorddavidiii has left
  223. lorddavidiii has joined
  224. mukt2 has left
  225. Shell has joined
  226. lorddavidiii has left
  227. MattJ That's easily done today
  228. andrey.g has left
  229. lorddavidiii has joined
  230. jonas’ is it?
  231. jonas’ because I want that
  232. jonas’ but LTIC it wasn’t possible because Conversations won’t trust anything the server could’ve said.
  233. pep. You need to remove every keys yeah, and even then the sender needs to disable e2ee because it's on by default, otherwise they get a "Failed to send" or sth :/
  234. jonas’ and prevent clients from re-publishing keys
  235. jonas’ and prevent clients from using cached keys
  236. flow that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
  237. flow that's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it, after has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
  238. jonas’ I haven’t enabled it though.
  239. pep. you "have", unwillingly :p
  240. Ge0rG flow: did you just do LMC?
  241. jonas’ a client did that without asking me
  242. pep. yeah that
  243. Ge0rG jonas’: how dare you installing post-modern clients?
  244. jonas’ I’m not into non-consensual non-consensual stuff.
  245. Ge0rG "no means no!"
  246. jonas’ Ge0rG, I needed multi-account support and stuff
  247. Ge0rG there is a v6 fork, why not also a NOMEMO fork?
  248. mukt2 has joined
  249. serge90 has left
  250. serge90 has joined
  251. curen has joined
  252. dwd jonas’, Should we be doing anything with XEP-0429, like Last Calling it?
  253. jonas’ dwd, yes most definitely
  254. jonas’ lost track of that one
  255. jonas’ can you add it to the SoD?
  256. dwd jonas’, Done.
  257. jonas’ thx
  258. mukt2 has left
  259. pdurbin has joined
  260. pdurbin has left
  261. DebXWoody has left
  262. DebXWoody has joined
  263. mukt2 has joined
  264. mukt2 has left
  265. mukt2 has joined
  266. curen has left
  267. mukt2 has left
  268. david has left
  269. david has joined
  270. adiaholic has left
  271. adiaholic has joined
  272. lorddavidiii has left
  273. lorddavidiii has joined
  274. Wojtek has joined
  275. aj has joined
  276. adiaholic has left
  277. adiaholic has joined
  278. aj has left
  279. Dele Olajide has left
  280. mukt2 has joined
  281. mukt2 has left
  282. ralphm Sorry, I have to skip today. Work.
  283. MattJ No worries
  284. pep. !
  285. flow Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the messagen from history, modify it and sent it
  286. flow Ge0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the message from history, modify it and sent it
  287. flow but I am learning
  288. Ge0rG flow: it doesn't.
  289. Ge0rG flow: I was actually worried that you used a client that generates LMCs that neither of my clients can parse
  290. pep. Trello has nothing for us, I still haven't sent stuff I wanted to discuss (my fault, and I don't want to hijack board meetings to discuss new ideas, that goes on list.), I guess this meeting if it happens is going to be quick
  291. Marc has left
  292. Marc has joined
  293. pep. Seve, Guus?
  294. MattJ I'm fine with skipping
  295. Guus connectivity issues
  296. Dele Olajide has joined
  297. pep. A wild Seve appeared a few minutes ago in another channel.
  298. mukt2 has joined
  299. Guus my internet connection is flaky
  300. Guus I don't mind skipping a week
  301. Seve Yes, sorry
  302. Seve Very much on the same page as you guys
  303. pep. Nothing to add to the agenda then?
  304. Seve Thanks for the ping pep. Btw :)
  305. pep. Ok. See you next week. /me warps back into the nothingness
  306. Ge0rG nothinglessness?
  307. lorddavidiii has left
  308. lorddavidiii has joined
  309. lorddavidiii has left
  310. lorddavidiii has joined
  311. winfried Has anyone played with this: https://products.office.com/en/business/microsoft-kaizala or analysed it? I spoke a representative of Microsoft Netherlands and he told it is a recently acquired by MS and that it is XMPP based. He seems to be willing to start an internal lobby in MS to give it an external XMPP interface.
  312. Shell has left
  313. Shell has joined
  314. MattJ Not familiar with it, no
  315. Ge0rG winfried: apparently it's included in my o365 subscription, and the first thing it asks for is my mobile number
  316. winfried Ge0rG: :-s listening to the discussion I already had the impression they would some strange things with identity....
  317. winfried I don't have an o365 subscription, so I couldn't test / debug it...
  318. Ge0rG I'm not sure I should try it.
  319. moparisthebest didn't microsoft just kill their (already optional) xmpp interface for "skype for business"
  320. dwd moparisthebest, That was, IIRC, hanging about primarily to support mandatory XMPP usage inside US (and other ) militaries.
  321. mukt2 has left
  322. moparisthebest https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/skypeforbusiness/migration/migrating-xmpp-federation
  323. moparisthebest > The XMPP functionality is no longer available and is deprecated in Skype for Business Server 2019.
  324. winfried moparisthebest: probable, the representative wasn't sure if the higher gods would decide to rewrite kaizala to something non-XMPP :-(
  325. dwd I wonder what the API and action card stuff looks like.
  326. adiaholic has left
  327. adiaholic has joined
  328. Ge0rG winfried: first thing the app asks for is phone book access.
  329. Ge0rG it looks a bit like Conversations. But maybe all IM apps do?
  330. neshtaxmpp has left
  331. winfried Ge0rG: *sigh* they are all the same... https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacyLua/blob/master/README.md
  332. mukt2 has joined
  333. winfried Ge0rG: thanks for looking BTW...
  334. Ge0rG winfried: they have some really interesting (read: weird) social aspects. You can not create a group without access to the phonebook.
  335. Ge0rG There are three ways to find existing groups: by your location (nearby); by QR code and by a numeric(?) code
  336. Ge0rG oh, public groups are in the "discover" tab
  337. winfried Ge0rG: I guess they use the phone number as some kind of user id. An idea that was fortunately rejected already. :-D
  338. Ge0rG winfried: looks like they are indeed.
  339. mukt2 has left
  340. Ge0rG there are 4.5k users in the Office 365 tech room
  341. pdurbin has joined
  342. Ge0rG I'm pretty sure they aren't using MUC for that
  343. mukt2 has joined
  344. winfried Interesting!
  345. Ge0rG Also looks like many Indians in there. And things like "how do I get rid of this group" ;)
  346. winfried It is build in India, became populair in India and China and was purchased by MS
  347. winfried They want to have a whatsapp killer
  348. pdurbin has left
  349. adiaholic has left
  350. Shell has left
  351. Shell has joined
  352. adiaholic has joined
  353. lorddavidiii has left
  354. lorddavidiii has joined
  355. mukt2 has left
  356. mukt2 has joined
  357. LNJ has left
  358. LNJ has joined
  359. Zash has left
  360. Zash has joined
  361. LNJ has left
  362. adiaholic has left
  363. adiaholic has joined
  364. LNJ has joined
  365. LNJ has left
  366. LNJ has joined
  367. adiaholic has left
  368. neshtaxmpp has joined
  369. adiaholic has joined
  370. Shell has left
  371. Shell has joined
  372. mukt2 has left
  373. mukt2 has joined
  374. mathijs has left
  375. mathijs has joined
  376. Dele Olajide has left
  377. Dele Olajide has joined
  378. eevvoor has joined
  379. Max has left
  380. Dele Olajide has left
  381. Max has joined
  382. Dele Olajide has joined
  383. andrey.g has joined
  384. Dele Olajide has left
  385. mukt2 has left
  386. Dele Olajide has joined
  387. vanitasvitae has left
  388. mathijs has left
  389. mathijs has joined
  390. vanitasvitae has joined
  391. mukt2 has joined
  392. lorddavidiii has left
  393. lorddavidiii has joined
  394. Dele Olajide has left
  395. Dele Olajide has joined
  396. romeo has left
  397. pdurbin has joined
  398. mukt2 has left
  399. mukt2 has joined
  400. Steve Kille has left
  401. Max has left
  402. pdurbin has left
  403. Max has joined
  404. Max has left
  405. Max has joined
  406. Max has left
  407. Steve Kille has joined
  408. vanitasvitae has left
  409. debacle has left
  410. lovetox has joined
  411. Dele Olajide has left
  412. Dele Olajide has joined
  413. vanitasvitae has joined
  414. vanitasvitae has left
  415. vanitasvitae has joined
  416. waqas has joined
  417. vanitasvitae has left
  418. vanitasvitae has joined
  419. Steve Kille has left
  420. Shell has left
  421. Shell has joined
  422. LNJ has left
  423. Yagiza has left
  424. LNJ has joined
  425. Shell has left
  426. Shell has joined
  427. Dele Olajide has left
  428. Steve Kille has joined
  429. Max has joined
  430. mukt2 has left
  431. mukt2 has joined
  432. Max has left
  433. Marc has left
  434. Marc has joined
  435. Max has joined
  436. Nekit has left
  437. Nekit has joined
  438. adiaholic has left
  439. adiaholic has joined
  440. Tobias has left
  441. Tobias has joined
  442. debacle has joined
  443. krauq has left
  444. krauq has joined
  445. pdurbin has joined
  446. mathijs has left
  447. mathijs has joined
  448. paul has left
  449. mukt2 has left
  450. mukt2 has joined
  451. paul has joined
  452. mathijs has left
  453. mathijs has joined
  454. pdurbin has left
  455. Tobias has left
  456. adiaholic has left
  457. adiaholic has joined
  458. Shell has left
  459. Shell has joined
  460. Max has left
  461. Max has joined
  462. mukt2 has left
  463. neshtaxmpp has left
  464. neshtaxmpp has joined
  465. mohamad has joined
  466. Shell has left
  467. mukt2 has joined
  468. mohamad 🌷
  469. Marc has left
  470. Marc has joined
  471. lorddavidiii has left
  472. j.r has left
  473. j.r has joined
  474. j.r has left
  475. j.r has joined
  476. j.r has left
  477. j.r has joined
  478. mohamad has left
  479. Shell has joined
  480. Douglas Terabyte has left
  481. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  482. paul has left
  483. mukt2 has left
  484. pdurbin has joined
  485. pdurbin has left
  486. paul has joined
  487. Shell has left
  488. Shell has joined
  489. Tobias has joined
  490. eevvoor has left
  491. moparisthebest flow: since quic supports network roaming across the same connection I'm not sure it'd make sense to smacks over it, I haven't put a ton of thought into it though
  492. Zash MPTCP is apparently in the next Linux version, so maybe we can have that without reinventing the entire stack from scratch
  493. paul has left
  494. paul has joined
  495. Alex has left
  496. adiaholic has left
  497. goffi has left
  498. Nekit has left
  499. adiaholic has joined
  500. j.r has left
  501. j.r has joined
  502. moparisthebest has left
  503. Shell has left
  504. Shell has joined
  505. debacle has left
  506. debacle has joined
  507. LNJ has left
  508. debacle has left
  509. Tobias has left
  510. Alex has joined
  511. lovetox has left
  512. Tobias has joined
  513. sonny has left
  514. Tobias has left
  515. sonny has joined
  516. debacle has joined
  517. waqas has left
  518. Dele Olajide has joined