jubalhI just saw in Profanitys code that it actually only sends request receipts if the capabilities of the other client support this. We had a similar discussion about LMC yesterday. So I think this is wrong and should actually always send them (if enabled) because we dont know which client the other user uses. Correct?
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Holger+1
jubalhI will look out for more such cases now :)
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pep.I'm quite torn with this "send everything anyway" policy tbh. I understand why, but then I feel that forces us to come with ugly "fallback" things that I don't like, "because some clients don't support what we send"
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jubalhhmm but it wont hurt them?
jubalhIt will just be some more data send and they wont parse it. and if they are connected with another client they still get the + there
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pep.I'm not happy about the fallback things, not about the "too much" :P
pep.But that's also an argument for some I guess, "too much"
jubalhwhat do you mean by fallback?
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ZashHaving this feature negotiation was one of the big things that makes XMPP better than email. And now we apparently don't have it anymore :(
MattJI know some kind of "user capabilities" was discussed at the summit (some kind of merging of device capabilities)
MattJI'm not really a fan of that idea though
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Ge0rGIt would be great to be able to loudly proclaim that I'm incapable of OMEMO, no matter what some clients of me claim.
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MattJThat's easily done today
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jonas’is it?
jonas’because I want that
jonas’but LTIC it wasn’t possible because Conversations won’t trust anything the server could’ve said.
pep.You need to remove every keys yeah, and even then the sender needs to disable e2ee because it's on by default, otherwise they get a "Failed to send" or sth :/
jonas’and prevent clients from re-publishing keys
jonas’and prevent clients from using cached keys
flowthat's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
flowthat's the thing with e2ee, there is no way to disable it, after has been enabled once. at least not without making downgrade attacks easier
jonas’I haven’t enabled it though.
pep.you "have", unwillingly :p
Ge0rGflow: did you just do LMC?
jonas’a client did that without asking me
pep.yeah that
Ge0rGjonas’: how dare you installing post-modern clients?
jonas’I’m not into non-consensual non-consensual stuff.
Ge0rG"no means no!"
jonas’Ge0rG, I needed multi-account support and stuff
Ge0rGthere is a v6 fork, why not also a NOMEMO fork?
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dwdjonas’, Should we be doing anything with XEP-0429, like Last Calling it?
jonas’dwd, yes most definitely
jonas’lost track of that one
jonas’can you add it to the SoD?
dwdjonas’, Done.
jonas’thx
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ralphmSorry, I have to skip today. Work.
MattJNo worries
pep.!
flowGe0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the messagen from history, modify it and sent it
flowGe0rG, no, my poezio-fu is not strong, I always assume that it does LMC if I just select the message from history, modify it and sent it
flowbut I am learning
Ge0rGflow: it doesn't.
Ge0rGflow: I was actually worried that you used a client that generates LMCs that neither of my clients can parse
pep.Trello has nothing for us, I still haven't sent stuff I wanted to discuss (my fault, and I don't want to hijack board meetings to discuss new ideas, that goes on list.), I guess this meeting if it happens is going to be quick
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pep.Seve, Guus?
MattJI'm fine with skipping
Guusconnectivity issues
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pep.A wild Seve appeared a few minutes ago in another channel.
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Guusmy internet connection is flaky
GuusI don't mind skipping a week
SeveYes, sorry
SeveVery much on the same page as you guys
pep.Nothing to add to the agenda then?
SeveThanks for the ping pep. Btw :)
pep.Ok. See you next week. /me warps back into the nothingness
Ge0rGnothinglessness?
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winfriedHas anyone played with this: https://products.office.com/en/business/microsoft-kaizala or analysed it? I spoke a representative of Microsoft Netherlands and he told it is a recently acquired by MS and that it is XMPP based. He seems to be willing to start an internal lobby in MS to give it an external XMPP interface.
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MattJNot familiar with it, no
Ge0rGwinfried: apparently it's included in my o365 subscription, and the first thing it asks for is my mobile number
winfriedGe0rG: :-s listening to the discussion I already had the impression they would some strange things with identity....
winfriedI don't have an o365 subscription, so I couldn't test / debug it...
Ge0rGI'm not sure I should try it.
moparisthebestdidn't microsoft just kill their (already optional) xmpp interface for "skype for business"
dwdmoparisthebest, That was, IIRC, hanging about primarily to support mandatory XMPP usage inside US (and other ) militaries.
moparisthebest> The XMPP functionality is no longer available and is deprecated in Skype for Business Server 2019.
winfriedmoparisthebest: probable, the representative wasn't sure if the higher gods would decide to rewrite kaizala to something non-XMPP :-(
dwdI wonder what the API and action card stuff looks like.
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Ge0rGwinfried: first thing the app asks for is phone book access.
Ge0rGit looks a bit like Conversations. But maybe all IM apps do?
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winfriedGe0rG: *sigh* they are all the same... https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacyLua/blob/master/README.md
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winfriedGe0rG: thanks for looking BTW...
Ge0rGwinfried: they have some really interesting (read: weird) social aspects. You can not create a group without access to the phonebook.
Ge0rGThere are three ways to find existing groups: by your location (nearby); by QR code and by a numeric(?) code
Ge0rGoh, public groups are in the "discover" tab
winfriedGe0rG: I guess they use the phone number as some kind of user id. An idea that was fortunately rejected already. :-D
Ge0rGwinfried: looks like they are indeed.
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Ge0rGthere are 4.5k users in the Office 365 tech room
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Ge0rGI'm pretty sure they aren't using MUC for that
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winfriedInteresting!
Ge0rGAlso looks like many Indians in there. And things like "how do I get rid of this group" ;)
winfriedIt is build in India, became populair in India and China and was purchased by MS
winfriedThey want to have a whatsapp killer
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mohamad🌷
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moparisthebestflow: since quic supports network roaming across the same connection I'm not sure it'd make sense to smacks over it, I haven't put a ton of thought into it though
ZashMPTCP is apparently in the next Linux version, so maybe we can have that without reinventing the entire stack from scratch