XSF Discussion - 2020-03-30

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  120. jonas’ re unicode version fun: https://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/
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  135. Zash Nice
  136. Zash Huh, what's that random draft they link to?
  137. Zash I thought nodeprep et all was some RFC somewhere
  138. Zash Oh, 2013
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  153. MattJ Where did the RFCs go.....
  154. MattJ Sigh
  155. Zash Which?
  156. jonas’ where they belong, on ietf.org? ;)
  157. Zash https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html ‽
  158. Zash Were they in yet another container?
  159. MattJ No, looks like they were on the host filesystem
  160. Ge0rG NOOOO! The only good rendering of our RFCs is gone!
  161. MattJ Restoring now
  162. Ge0rG MattJ: do you have access to the host again?
  163. MattJ And they're back
  164. Zash !praise MattJ
  165. MattJ !praise backups
  166. jonas’ nooo the worst rendering of an RFC ever is back ;-P
  167. pep. MattJ: Can you also pull the docker containers for xeps and xmpp.org plz
  168. MattJ Yes, I'll do that now :)
  169. pep. ta
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  172. MattJ I assume this was previously just in cron or something
  173. jonas’ very likely
  174. Zash Would Someone™️ like to review, merge, maybe even test, the wiki PRs I made?
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  176. jonas’ given the insane amount of pulls the xeps docker image has
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  178. MattJ pep., done
  179. MattJ Any opinions on what an entity should return if someone includes an unrecognised form field in a form submission?
  180. jonas’ > When receiving a search form, the Search Service MUST ignore fields with a var value it does not understand. XEP-0433
  181. Zash Either a) ignore it or b) an error
  182. jonas’ if that’s not an option then I’d suggest feature-not-implemented with an application-specific error condition.
  183. MattJ Yes, I was going with (b) an error
  184. Zash not-acceptable?
  185. MattJ Just wasn't sure what error
  186. Zash or what jonas’ said
  187. jonas’ or bad-request
  188. MattJ XEP-0004 says not-acceptable if data validation fails
  189. Zash What about if you don't include an optional <field/>?
  190. MattJ feature-not-implemented, not-acceptable and bad-request were my shortlist
  191. Zash MattJ, roll a dice
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  193. MattJ Do 22-sided dice exist?
  194. jonas’ on every reply :)
  195. Zash 6-sided and divide by 2?
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  197. pep. jonas’, I was thinking about 433, could it use order-by 413
  198. jonas’ pep., the wire format?
  199. pep. yes
  200. jonas’ maybe
  201. jonas’ though that’s not in a data form
  202. jonas’ so it doesn’t really play well with that
  203. pep. Maybe that's a point against data forms :x
  204. Zash (query (form, order-by))
  205. MattJ settles on feature-not-implemented
  206. jonas’ Zash, so you can’t configure order-by in the form then
  207. Zash MattJ: But isn't that for when you know about the feature, but you don't implement it?
  208. jonas’ pep., I’d be fine with ditching data forms altogether
  209. Zash ... whyever you would ever do that
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  211. Zash jonas’, doing what MAM did backwards? :)
  212. Zash simple text nodes → FORMS!
  213. jonas’ why did MAM do that?
  214. MattJ Zash, it's when you know about the namespace, but don't recognise the element (according to the RFC)
  215. Zash jonas’, summit consensus iirc
  216. jonas’ why?
  217. MattJ XMPP needs ADRs
  218. jonas’ we really really need Design Considerations sections in *all* the documents.
  219. Zash We really need to record the complete brain states of everyone involved
  220. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.xml#revision-history-v0.3 Oh no, I did this
  221. Zash I AM SO SORRY
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  224. MattJ Haha
  225. Zash So, Summit 2014 minutes?
  226. Syndace hahaha
  227. Zash Why are some events by year but Summit is numbered?
  228. pep. who knows..
  229. pep. CCC is also numbered
  230. Zash Eh do we even have minutes from then?
  231. pep. Helps seeing how old it is :p
  232. Zash https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Conferences/Summit_15
  233. MattJ That was the year of binary sponsorship
  234. Zash https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15_Minutes#mam_search
  235. Zash jonas’, if there's a "why" recorded, it'd be there ↑
  236. MattJ I suspect it was probably just to avoid reinventing the wheel
  237. MattJ A query is a bunch of data slots, the client needs to discover what slots the server supports
  238. MattJ Each slot has a type
  239. MattJ Sounds very much like forms to me
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  242. Zash or schema
  243. Zash disco#info features
  244. Zash The XML bikeshed should be ${shuf -n colors.txt}
  245. Zash Forms are nice for ad-hoc stuff that might be shown to users
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  247. pep. And you still had to put RSM outside of the forms
  248. Zash I don't know anything that lets users type things into MAM search yet
  249. pep. Because it doesn't play well
  250. pep. (whatever the reason)
  251. Zash RSM being a thing seems logical to me
  252. pep. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0413.html#MAM heh, does this even work
  253. pep. implemented anywhere?
  254. pep. Ah it's with pubsub
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  260. MattJ prepares a XEP-0313 PR
  261. pep. fear
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  265. Ge0rG Now is the best time to do a radical cut.
  266. Zash Magic per-device offline messages when?
  267. MattJ I gave up on that tactic
  268. MattJ The magic is too magical without a way to identify devices, which means clients would have to update to bind2/ng to take advantage of it - at which point they should just implement MAM and gain control over what they receive
  269. Zash Apparently the resource is now the device ID and things break if the server uses its spec-given right to set it to whatever it wants. :(
  270. MattJ What things?
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  273. Zash I ran into a bug where Dino doesn't deduplicate outgoing messages correctly because the messages from the archive has the server-issued resource but the local archive has the requested resource.
  274. jonas’ obviously dinos fault
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  276. MattJ +1, file a bug and toggle Prosody's default to rewrite resources
  277. jonas’ :>
  278. MattJ I've threatened it before and I'm semi-serious
  279. Zash This one weird trick. Client devs hate it! :D
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  281. MattJ Users are actually the main complainers in my experience (they want their resource to be Home, Work, or whatever)
  282. MattJ A simple device name spec would solve that
  283. MattJ Resources are session identifiers only
  284. Zash We have a device name spec
  285. Zash XEP-0030
  286. MattJ File bugs :)
  287. MattJ So PAM (Pubsub Archive Management) is taken...
  288. pep. I'd like to have resources use something like this by default: https://github.com/moby/moby/blob/master/pkg/namesgenerator/names-generator.go
  289. pep. human readable, easy to distinguish, not leaking more information than necessary
  290. MattJ Resources shouldn't be visible to users
  291. pep. yeah that's not for users
  292. jonas’ MattJ, they are visible to admins reading logs though
  293. pep. for server admins to debug
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  298. Zash Inb4 resource := userpart + serverpart
  299. Zash We're not doing that.
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  303. MattJ Objections to adding an 'id' field in MAM to fetch a single message? or should that be a separate iq?
  304. MattJ Combining 'id' with any of the other options is likely useless
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  310. Kev Seems reasonable to me.
  311. edhelas mam:3 incoming ? 😱
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  313. MattJ Avoiding bumping the namespace, but yeah
  314. MattJ So get your requests in now before it's too late :)
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  316. pep. Please do post on the list for feedback maybe before merging the PR :)
  317. jonas’ why, it’s Experimental :>
  318. MattJ ;)
  319. pep. To avoid having to publish yet another revision.. not that revisions are expensive, but the effort of doing the PR is expensive
  320. pep. Once you're in.. you're in
  321. pep. might as well group related efforts
  322. MattJ Much evidence shows that revisions are expensive
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  324. pep. increasing a number?
  325. MattJ Doing the work
  326. pep. What I said, then :)
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  398. Neustradamus Interesting: https://github.com/mar-v-in/libomemo-c larma
  399. larma is confused by this mentioning
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  418. Zash jonas’, does openssl even support EXPORT ciphers anymore?
  419. jonas’ if you build it correctly, I think so
  420. jonas’ (is "correctly" the right term?)
  421. pep. I think so. appropriatly?
  422. jonas’ (this was a allusion to the fact that a libssl with EXPORT ciphers is most certainly built incorrectly nowadays)
  423. jonas’ Zash, you could use the libssl from here: https://testssl.sh/
  424. Zash oooh
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