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09:53:50 jonas’
re unicode version fun: https://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/
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10:53:23 Zash
Nice
10:54:33 Zash
Huh, what's that random draft they link to?
10:54:47 Zash
I thought nodeprep et all was some RFC somewhere
10:55:09 Zash
Oh, 2013
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12:15:57 MattJ
Where did the RFCs go.....
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Sigh
12:17:13 Zash
Which?
12:17:14 jonas’
where they belong, on ietf.org? ;)
12:17:30 Zash
https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html ‽
12:17:56 Zash
Were they in yet another container?
12:18:05 MattJ
No, looks like they were on the host filesystem
12:18:06 Ge0rG
NOOOO! The only good rendering of our RFCs is gone!
12:18:08 MattJ
Restoring now
12:18:21 Ge0rG
MattJ: do you have access to the host again?
12:18:22 MattJ
And they're back
12:18:30 Zash
!praise MattJ
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!praise backups
12:18:40 jonas’
nooo the worst rendering of an RFC ever is back ;-P
12:18:54 pep.
MattJ: Can you also pull the docker containers for xeps and xmpp.org plz
12:19:05 MattJ
Yes, I'll do that now :)
12:19:10 pep.
ta
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I assume this was previously just in cron or something
12:19:41 jonas’
very likely
12:19:47 Zash
Would Someone™️ like to review, merge, maybe even test, the wiki PRs I made?
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12:19:49 jonas’
given the insane amount of pulls the xeps docker image has
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12:20:12 MattJ
pep., done
12:22:55 MattJ
Any opinions on what an entity should return if someone includes an unrecognised form field in a form submission?
12:23:34 jonas’
> When receiving a search form, the Search Service MUST ignore fields with a var value it does not understand.
XEP-0433
12:23:57 Zash
Either a) ignore it or b) an error
12:24:08 jonas’
if that’s not an option then I’d suggest feature-not-implemented with an application-specific error condition.
12:24:09 MattJ
Yes, I was going with (b) an error
12:24:17 Zash
not-acceptable?
12:24:20 MattJ
Just wasn't sure what error
12:24:22 Zash
or what jonas’ said
12:24:29 jonas’
or bad-request
12:24:33 MattJ
XEP-0004 says not-acceptable if data validation fails
12:25:04 Zash
What about if you don't include an optional <field/>?
12:25:17 MattJ
feature-not-implemented, not-acceptable and bad-request were my shortlist
12:25:41 Zash
MattJ, roll a dice
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Do 22-sided dice exist?
12:26:19 jonas’
on every reply :)
12:26:47 Zash
6-sided and divide by 2?
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12:27:00 pep.
jonas’, I was thinking about 433, could it use order-by 413
12:27:32 jonas’
pep., the wire format?
12:27:36 pep.
yes
12:27:57 jonas’
maybe
12:28:06 jonas’
though that’s not in a data form
12:28:12 jonas’
so it doesn’t really play well with that
12:28:23 pep.
Maybe that's a point against data forms :x
12:28:26 Zash
(query (form, order-by))
12:28:33 MattJ
settles on feature-not-implemented
12:28:36 jonas’
Zash, so you can’t configure order-by in the form then
12:28:47 Zash
MattJ: But isn't that for when you know about the feature, but you don't implement it?
12:28:48 jonas’
pep., I’d be fine with ditching data forms altogether
12:29:00 Zash
... whyever you would ever do that
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12:29:12 Zash
jonas’, doing what MAM did backwards? :)
12:29:23 Zash
simple text nodes → FORMS!
12:29:30 jonas’
why did MAM do that?
12:29:40 MattJ
Zash, it's when you know about the namespace, but don't recognise the element (according to the RFC)
12:29:46 Zash
jonas’, summit consensus iirc
12:29:51 jonas’
why?
12:30:19 MattJ
XMPP needs ADRs
12:30:20 jonas’
we really really need Design Considerations sections in *all* the documents.
12:30:41 Zash
We really need to record the complete brain states of everyone involved
12:31:21 Zash
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.xml#revision-history-v0.3
Oh no, I did this
12:31:25 Zash
I AM SO SORRY
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12:32:02 MattJ
Haha
12:32:11 Zash
So, Summit 2014 minutes?
12:32:15 Syndace
hahaha
12:32:45 Zash
Why are some events by year but Summit is numbered?
12:33:14 pep.
who knows..
12:33:19 pep.
CCC is also numbered
12:33:20 Zash
Eh do we even have minutes from then?
12:33:35 pep.
Helps seeing how old it is :p
12:33:49 Zash
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Conferences/Summit_15
12:34:05 MattJ
That was the year of binary sponsorship
12:34:19 Zash
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15_Minutes#mam_search
12:35:04 Zash
jonas’, if there's a "why" recorded, it'd be there ↑
12:36:03 MattJ
I suspect it was probably just to avoid reinventing the wheel
12:36:20 MattJ
A query is a bunch of data slots, the client needs to discover what slots the server supports
12:36:25 MattJ
Each slot has a type
12:36:30 MattJ
Sounds very much like forms to me
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12:37:19 Zash
or schema
12:37:26 Zash
disco#info features
12:37:43 Zash
The XML bikeshed should be ${shuf -n colors.txt}
12:38:14 Zash
Forms are nice for ad-hoc stuff that might be shown to users
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12:38:52 pep.
And you still had to put RSM outside of the forms
12:38:56 Zash
I don't know anything that lets users type things into MAM search yet
12:39:04 pep.
Because it doesn't play well
12:39:11 pep.
(whatever the reason)
12:39:53 Zash
RSM being a thing seems logical to me
12:40:54 pep.
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0413.html#MAM heh, does this even work
12:40:59 pep.
implemented anywhere?
12:41:15 pep.
Ah it's with pubsub
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13:08:45 MattJ
prepares a XEP-0313 PR
13:11:30 pep.
fear
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13:24:24 Ge0rG
Now is the best time to do a radical cut.
13:25:28 Zash
Magic per-device offline messages when?
13:25:58 MattJ
I gave up on that tactic
13:26:42 MattJ
The magic is too magical without a way to identify devices, which means clients would have to update to bind2/ng to take advantage of it - at which point they should just implement MAM and gain control over what they receive
13:29:07 Zash
Apparently the resource is now the device ID and things break if the server uses its spec-given right to set it to whatever it wants. :(
13:29:26 MattJ
What things?
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I ran into a bug where Dino doesn't deduplicate outgoing messages correctly because the messages from the archive has the server-issued resource but the local archive has the requested resource.
13:30:43 jonas’
obviously dinos fault
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+1, file a bug and toggle Prosody's default to rewrite resources
13:31:14 jonas’
:>
13:31:16 MattJ
I've threatened it before and I'm semi-serious
13:31:47 Zash
This one weird trick. Client devs hate it! :D
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13:32:22 MattJ
Users are actually the main complainers in my experience (they want their resource to be Home, Work, or whatever)
13:32:32 MattJ
A simple device name spec would solve that
13:32:38 MattJ
Resources are session identifiers only
13:32:57 Zash
We have a device name spec
13:33:01 Zash
XEP-0030
13:33:24 MattJ
File bugs :)
13:33:48 MattJ
So PAM (Pubsub Archive Management) is taken...
13:34:56 pep.
I'd like to have resources use something like this by default: https://github.com/moby/moby/blob/master/pkg/namesgenerator/names-generator.go
13:35:12 pep.
human readable, easy to distinguish, not leaking more information than necessary
13:35:30 MattJ
Resources shouldn't be visible to users
13:35:38 pep.
yeah that's not for users
13:35:40 jonas’
MattJ, they are visible to admins reading logs though
13:35:41 pep.
for server admins to debug
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Inb4 resource := userpart + serverpart
13:45:33 Zash
We're not doing that.
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13:50:05 MattJ
Objections to adding an 'id' field in MAM to fetch a single message? or should that be a separate iq?
13:50:23 MattJ
Combining 'id' with any of the other options is likely useless
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14:02:06 Kev
Seems reasonable to me.
14:03:13 edhelas
mam:3 incoming ? 😱
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Avoiding bumping the namespace, but yeah
14:05:02 MattJ
So get your requests in now before it's too late :)
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Please do post on the list for feedback maybe before merging the PR :)
14:07:31 jonas’
why, it’s Experimental :>
14:08:20 MattJ
;)
14:08:28 pep.
To avoid having to publish yet another revision.. not that revisions are expensive, but the effort of doing the PR is expensive
14:08:42 pep.
Once you're in.. you're in
14:08:47 pep.
might as well group related efforts
14:09:15 MattJ
Much evidence shows that revisions are expensive
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increasing a number?
14:09:33 MattJ
Doing the work
14:09:40 pep.
What I said, then :)
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16:33:32 Neustradamus
Interesting: https://github.com/mar-v-in/libomemo-c larma
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is confused by this mentioning
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18:51:24 Zash
jonas’, does openssl even support EXPORT ciphers anymore?
18:55:46 jonas’
if you build it correctly, I think so
18:56:27 jonas’
(is "correctly" the right term?)
18:57:08 pep.
I think so. appropriatly?
18:57:29 jonas’
(this was a allusion to the fact that a libssl with EXPORT ciphers is most certainly built incorrectly nowadays)
18:58:05 jonas’
Zash, you could use the libssl from here: https://testssl.sh/
18:59:36 Zash
oooh
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