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jonas’
re unicode version fun: https://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/
-
Zash
Nice
-
Zash
Huh, what's that random draft they link to?
-
Zash
I thought nodeprep et all was some RFC somewhere
-
Zash
Oh, 2013
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MattJ
Where did the RFCs go.....
-
MattJ
Sigh
-
Zash
Which?
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jonas’
where they belong, on ietf.org? ;)
-
Zash
https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html ‽
-
Zash
Were they in yet another container?
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MattJ
No, looks like they were on the host filesystem
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Ge0rG
NOOOO! The only good rendering of our RFCs is gone!
-
MattJ
Restoring now
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: do you have access to the host again?
-
MattJ
And they're back
-
Zash
!praise MattJ
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MattJ
!praise backups
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jonas’
nooo the worst rendering of an RFC ever is back ;-P
-
pep.
MattJ: Can you also pull the docker containers for xeps and xmpp.org plz
-
MattJ
Yes, I'll do that now :)
-
pep.
ta
-
MattJ
I assume this was previously just in cron or something
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jonas’
very likely
-
Zash
Would Someone™️ like to review, merge, maybe even test, the wiki PRs I made?
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jonas’
given the insane amount of pulls the xeps docker image has
-
MattJ
pep., done
-
MattJ
Any opinions on what an entity should return if someone includes an unrecognised form field in a form submission?
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jonas’
> When receiving a search form, the Search Service MUST ignore fields with a var value it does not understand. XEP-0433
-
Zash
Either a) ignore it or b) an error
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jonas’
if that’s not an option then I’d suggest feature-not-implemented with an application-specific error condition.
-
MattJ
Yes, I was going with (b) an error
-
Zash
not-acceptable?
-
MattJ
Just wasn't sure what error
-
Zash
or what jonas’ said
-
jonas’
or bad-request
-
MattJ
XEP-0004 says not-acceptable if data validation fails
-
Zash
What about if you don't include an optional <field/>?
-
MattJ
feature-not-implemented, not-acceptable and bad-request were my shortlist
-
Zash
MattJ, roll a dice
-
MattJ
Do 22-sided dice exist?
-
jonas’
on every reply :)
-
Zash
6-sided and divide by 2?
-
pep.
jonas’, I was thinking about 433, could it use order-by 413
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jonas’
pep., the wire format?
-
pep.
yes
-
jonas’
maybe
-
jonas’
though that’s not in a data form
-
jonas’
so it doesn’t really play well with that
-
pep.
Maybe that's a point against data forms :x
-
Zash
(query (form, order-by))
- MattJ settles on feature-not-implemented
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jonas’
Zash, so you can’t configure order-by in the form then
-
Zash
MattJ: But isn't that for when you know about the feature, but you don't implement it?
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jonas’
pep., I’d be fine with ditching data forms altogether
-
Zash
... whyever you would ever do that
-
Zash
jonas’, doing what MAM did backwards? :)
-
Zash
simple text nodes → FORMS!
-
jonas’
why did MAM do that?
-
MattJ
Zash, it's when you know about the namespace, but don't recognise the element (according to the RFC)
-
Zash
jonas’, summit consensus iirc
-
jonas’
why?
-
MattJ
XMPP needs ADRs
-
jonas’
we really really need Design Considerations sections in *all* the documents.
-
Zash
We really need to record the complete brain states of everyone involved
-
Zash
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.xml#revision-history-v0.3 Oh no, I did this
-
Zash
I AM SO SORRY
-
MattJ
Haha
-
Zash
So, Summit 2014 minutes?
-
Syndace
hahaha
-
Zash
Why are some events by year but Summit is numbered?
-
pep.
who knows..
-
pep.
CCC is also numbered
-
Zash
Eh do we even have minutes from then?
-
pep.
Helps seeing how old it is :p
-
Zash
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Conferences/Summit_15
-
MattJ
That was the year of binary sponsorship
-
Zash
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15_Minutes#mam_search
-
Zash
jonas’, if there's a "why" recorded, it'd be there ↑
-
MattJ
I suspect it was probably just to avoid reinventing the wheel
-
MattJ
A query is a bunch of data slots, the client needs to discover what slots the server supports
-
MattJ
Each slot has a type
-
MattJ
Sounds very much like forms to me
-
Zash
or schema
-
Zash
disco#info features
-
Zash
The XML bikeshed should be ${shuf -n colors.txt}
-
Zash
Forms are nice for ad-hoc stuff that might be shown to users
-
pep.
And you still had to put RSM outside of the forms
-
Zash
I don't know anything that lets users type things into MAM search yet
-
pep.
Because it doesn't play well
-
pep.
(whatever the reason)
-
Zash
RSM being a thing seems logical to me
-
pep.
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0413.html#MAM heh, does this even work
-
pep.
implemented anywhere?
-
pep.
Ah it's with pubsub
- MattJ prepares a XEP-0313 PR
-
pep.
fear
-
Ge0rG
Now is the best time to do a radical cut.
-
Zash
Magic per-device offline messages when?
-
MattJ
I gave up on that tactic
-
MattJ
The magic is too magical without a way to identify devices, which means clients would have to update to bind2/ng to take advantage of it - at which point they should just implement MAM and gain control over what they receive
-
Zash
Apparently the resource is now the device ID and things break if the server uses its spec-given right to set it to whatever it wants. :(
-
MattJ
What things?
-
Zash
I ran into a bug where Dino doesn't deduplicate outgoing messages correctly because the messages from the archive has the server-issued resource but the local archive has the requested resource.
-
jonas’
obviously dinos fault
-
MattJ
+1, file a bug and toggle Prosody's default to rewrite resources
-
jonas’
:>
-
MattJ
I've threatened it before and I'm semi-serious
-
Zash
This one weird trick. Client devs hate it! :D
-
MattJ
Users are actually the main complainers in my experience (they want their resource to be Home, Work, or whatever)
-
MattJ
A simple device name spec would solve that
-
MattJ
Resources are session identifiers only
-
Zash
We have a device name spec
-
Zash
XEP-0030
-
MattJ
File bugs :)
-
MattJ
So PAM (Pubsub Archive Management) is taken...
-
pep.
I'd like to have resources use something like this by default: https://github.com/moby/moby/blob/master/pkg/namesgenerator/names-generator.go
-
pep.
human readable, easy to distinguish, not leaking more information than necessary
-
MattJ
Resources shouldn't be visible to users
-
pep.
yeah that's not for users
-
jonas’
MattJ, they are visible to admins reading logs though
-
pep.
for server admins to debug
-
Zash
Inb4 resource := userpart + serverpart
-
Zash
We're not doing that.
-
MattJ
Objections to adding an 'id' field in MAM to fetch a single message? or should that be a separate iq?
-
MattJ
Combining 'id' with any of the other options is likely useless
-
Kev
Seems reasonable to me.
-
edhelas
mam:3 incoming ? 😱
-
MattJ
Avoiding bumping the namespace, but yeah
-
MattJ
So get your requests in now before it's too late :)
-
pep.
Please do post on the list for feedback maybe before merging the PR :)
-
jonas’
why, it’s Experimental :>
-
MattJ
;)
-
pep.
To avoid having to publish yet another revision.. not that revisions are expensive, but the effort of doing the PR is expensive
-
pep.
Once you're in.. you're in
-
pep.
might as well group related efforts
-
MattJ
Much evidence shows that revisions are expensive
-
pep.
increasing a number?
-
MattJ
Doing the work
-
pep.
What I said, then :)
-
Neustradamus
Interesting: https://github.com/mar-v-in/libomemo-c larma
- larma is confused by this mentioning
-
Zash
jonas’, does openssl even support EXPORT ciphers anymore?
-
jonas’
if you build it correctly, I think so
-
jonas’
(is "correctly" the right term?)
-
pep.
I think so. appropriatly?
-
jonas’
(this was a allusion to the fact that a libssl with EXPORT ciphers is most certainly built incorrectly nowadays)
-
jonas’
Zash, you could use the libssl from here: https://testssl.sh/
-
Zash
oooh