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jonas’
09:53:50
re unicode version fun: https://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/
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Zash
10:53:23
Nice
Zash
10:54:33
Huh, what's that random draft they link to?
Zash
10:54:47
I thought nodeprep et all was some RFC somewhere
Zash
10:55:09
Oh, 2013
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MattJ
12:15:57
Where did the RFCs go.....
MattJ
12:15:59
Sigh
Zash
12:17:13
Which?
jonas’
12:17:14
where they belong, on ietf.org? ;)
Zash
12:17:30
https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html ‽
Zash
12:17:56
Were they in yet another container?
MattJ
12:18:05
No, looks like they were on the host filesystem
Ge0rG
12:18:06
NOOOO! The only good rendering of our RFCs is gone!
MattJ
12:18:08
Restoring now
Ge0rG
12:18:21
MattJ: do you have access to the host again?
MattJ
12:18:22
And they're back
Zash
12:18:30
!praise MattJ
MattJ
12:18:40
!praise backups
jonas’
12:18:40
nooo the worst rendering of an RFC ever is back ;-P
pep.
12:18:54
MattJ: Can you also pull the docker containers for xeps and xmpp.org plz
MattJ
12:19:05
Yes, I'll do that now :)
pep.
12:19:10
ta
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MattJ
12:19:32
I assume this was previously just in cron or something
jonas’
12:19:41
very likely
Zash
12:19:47
Would Someone™️ like to review, merge, maybe even test, the wiki PRs I made?
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jonas’
12:19:49
given the insane amount of pulls the xeps docker image has
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MattJ
12:20:12
pep., done
MattJ
12:22:55
Any opinions on what an entity should return if someone includes an unrecognised form field in a form submission?
jonas’
12:23:34
> When receiving a search form, the Search Service MUST ignore fields with a var value it does not understand.
XEP-0433
Zash
12:23:57
Either a) ignore it or b) an error
jonas’
12:24:08
if that’s not an option then I’d suggest feature-not-implemented with an application-specific error condition.
MattJ
12:24:09
Yes, I was going with (b) an error
Zash
12:24:17
not-acceptable?
MattJ
12:24:20
Just wasn't sure what error
Zash
12:24:22
or what jonas’ said
jonas’
12:24:29
or bad-request
MattJ
12:24:33
XEP-0004 says not-acceptable if data validation fails
Zash
12:25:04
What about if you don't include an optional <field/>?
MattJ
12:25:17
feature-not-implemented, not-acceptable and bad-request were my shortlist
Zash
12:25:41
MattJ, roll a dice
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MattJ
12:26:07
Do 22-sided dice exist?
jonas’
12:26:19
on every reply :)
Zash
12:26:47
6-sided and divide by 2?
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has left
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pep.
12:27:00
jonas’, I was thinking about 433, could it use order-by 413
jonas’
12:27:32
pep., the wire format?
pep.
12:27:36
yes
jonas’
12:27:57
maybe
jonas’
12:28:06
though that’s not in a data form
jonas’
12:28:12
so it doesn’t really play well with that
pep.
12:28:23
Maybe that's a point against data forms :x
Zash
12:28:26
(query (form, order-by))
MattJ
settles on feature-not-implemented
12:28:33
jonas’
12:28:36
Zash, so you can’t configure order-by in the form then
Zash
12:28:47
MattJ: But isn't that for when you know about the feature, but you don't implement it?
jonas’
12:28:48
pep., I’d be fine with ditching data forms altogether
Zash
12:29:00
... whyever you would ever do that
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Zash
12:29:12
jonas’, doing what MAM did backwards? :)
Zash
12:29:23
simple text nodes → FORMS!
jonas’
12:29:30
why did MAM do that?
MattJ
12:29:40
Zash, it's when you know about the namespace, but don't recognise the element (according to the RFC)
Zash
12:29:46
jonas’, summit consensus iirc
jonas’
12:29:51
why?
MattJ
12:30:19
XMPP needs ADRs
jonas’
12:30:20
we really really need Design Considerations sections in *all* the documents.
Zash
12:30:41
We really need to record the complete brain states of everyone involved
Zash
12:31:21
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.xml#revision-history-v0.3
Oh no, I did this
Zash
12:31:25
I AM SO SORRY
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MattJ
12:32:02
Haha
Zash
12:32:11
So, Summit 2014 minutes?
Syndace
12:32:15
hahaha
Zash
12:32:45
Why are some events by year but Summit is numbered?
pep.
12:33:14
who knows..
pep.
12:33:19
CCC is also numbered
Zash
12:33:20
Eh do we even have minutes from then?
pep.
12:33:35
Helps seeing how old it is :p
Zash
12:33:49
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Conferences/Summit_15
MattJ
12:34:05
That was the year of binary sponsorship
Zash
12:34:19
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15_Minutes#mam_search
Zash
12:35:04
jonas’, if there's a "why" recorded, it'd be there ↑
MattJ
12:36:03
I suspect it was probably just to avoid reinventing the wheel
MattJ
12:36:20
A query is a bunch of data slots, the client needs to discover what slots the server supports
MattJ
12:36:25
Each slot has a type
MattJ
12:36:30
Sounds very much like forms to me
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Zash
12:37:19
or schema
Zash
12:37:26
disco#info features
Zash
12:37:43
The XML bikeshed should be ${shuf -n colors.txt}
Zash
12:38:14
Forms are nice for ad-hoc stuff that might be shown to users
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pep.
12:38:52
And you still had to put RSM outside of the forms
Zash
12:38:56
I don't know anything that lets users type things into MAM search yet
pep.
12:39:04
Because it doesn't play well
pep.
12:39:11
(whatever the reason)
Zash
12:39:53
RSM being a thing seems logical to me
pep.
12:40:54
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0413.html#MAM heh, does this even work
pep.
12:40:59
implemented anywhere?
pep.
12:41:15
Ah it's with pubsub
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MattJ
prepares a XEP-0313 PR
13:08:45
pep.
13:11:30
fear
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Ge0rG
13:24:24
Now is the best time to do a radical cut.
Zash
13:25:28
Magic per-device offline messages when?
MattJ
13:25:58
I gave up on that tactic
MattJ
13:26:42
The magic is too magical without a way to identify devices, which means clients would have to update to bind2/ng to take advantage of it - at which point they should just implement MAM and gain control over what they receive
Zash
13:29:07
Apparently the resource is now the device ID and things break if the server uses its spec-given right to set it to whatever it wants. :(
MattJ
13:29:26
What things?
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Zash
13:30:21
I ran into a bug where Dino doesn't deduplicate outgoing messages correctly because the messages from the archive has the server-issued resource but the local archive has the requested resource.
jonas’
13:30:43
obviously dinos fault
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MattJ
13:31:07
+1, file a bug and toggle Prosody's default to rewrite resources
jonas’
13:31:14
:>
MattJ
13:31:16
I've threatened it before and I'm semi-serious
Zash
13:31:47
This one weird trick. Client devs hate it! :D
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MattJ
13:32:22
Users are actually the main complainers in my experience (they want their resource to be Home, Work, or whatever)
MattJ
13:32:32
A simple device name spec would solve that
MattJ
13:32:38
Resources are session identifiers only
Zash
13:32:57
We have a device name spec
Zash
13:33:01
XEP-0030
MattJ
13:33:24
File bugs :)
MattJ
13:33:48
So PAM (Pubsub Archive Management) is taken...
pep.
13:34:56
I'd like to have resources use something like this by default: https://github.com/moby/moby/blob/master/pkg/namesgenerator/names-generator.go
pep.
13:35:12
human readable, easy to distinguish, not leaking more information than necessary
MattJ
13:35:30
Resources shouldn't be visible to users
pep.
13:35:38
yeah that's not for users
jonas’
13:35:40
MattJ, they are visible to admins reading logs though
pep.
13:35:41
for server admins to debug
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Zash
13:45:28
Inb4 resource := userpart + serverpart
Zash
13:45:33
We're not doing that.
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MattJ
13:50:05
Objections to adding an 'id' field in MAM to fetch a single message? or should that be a separate iq?
MattJ
13:50:23
Combining 'id' with any of the other options is likely useless
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Kev
14:02:06
Seems reasonable to me.
edhelas
14:03:13
mam:3 incoming ? 😱
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MattJ
14:04:52
Avoiding bumping the namespace, but yeah
MattJ
14:05:02
So get your requests in now before it's too late :)
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pep.
14:06:53
Please do post on the list for feedback maybe before merging the PR :)
jonas’
14:07:31
why, it’s Experimental :>
MattJ
14:08:20
;)
pep.
14:08:28
To avoid having to publish yet another revision.. not that revisions are expensive, but the effort of doing the PR is expensive
pep.
14:08:42
Once you're in.. you're in
pep.
14:08:47
might as well group related efforts
MattJ
14:09:15
Much evidence shows that revisions are expensive
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pep.
14:09:25
increasing a number?
MattJ
14:09:33
Doing the work
pep.
14:09:40
What I said, then :)
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Neustradamus
16:33:32
Interesting: https://github.com/mar-v-in/libomemo-c larma
larma
is confused by this mentioning
16:38:07
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Zash
18:51:24
jonas’, does openssl even support EXPORT ciphers anymore?
jonas’
18:55:46
if you build it correctly, I think so
jonas’
18:56:27
(is "correctly" the right term?)
pep.
18:57:08
I think so. appropriatly?
jonas’
18:57:29
(this was a allusion to the fact that a libssl with EXPORT ciphers is most certainly built incorrectly nowadays)
jonas’
18:58:05
Zash, you could use the libssl from here: https://testssl.sh/
Zash
18:59:36
oooh
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