XSF Discussion - 2020-04-01


  1. paul has left

  2. pdurbin has joined

  3. bear has left

  4. pdurbin has left

  5. Douglas Terabyte has left

  6. Douglas Terabyte has joined

  7. stpeter has joined

  8. stpeter has left

  9. calvin has joined

  10. xelxebar has joined

  11. LNJ has left

  12. calvin has left

  13. calvin has joined

  14. bear has joined

  15. stpeter has joined

  16. stpeter has left

  17. lskdjf has left

  18. arc has left

  19. arc has joined

  20. bear has left

  21. arc has left

  22. arc has joined

  23. arc has left

  24. arc has joined

  25. moparisthebest has left

  26. moparisthebest has joined

  27. arc has left

  28. arc has joined

  29. arc has left

  30. arc has joined

  31. arc has left

  32. arc has joined

  33. adiaholic_ has joined

  34. adiaholic_ has left

  35. adiaholic_ has joined

  36. calvin has left

  37. calvin has joined

  38. bear has joined

  39. Roberto has left

  40. Roberto has joined

  41. calvin has left

  42. bear has left

  43. pdurbin has joined

  44. bear has joined

  45. Yagiza has joined

  46. murabito has joined

  47. andy has joined

  48. DebXWoody has joined

  49. waqas has left

  50. mimi89999 has left

  51. mimi89999 has joined

  52. moparisthebest has left

  53. DebXWoody has left

  54. Tobias has joined

  55. paul has joined

  56. bear has left

  57. wurstsalat has joined

  58. adiaholic_ has left

  59. adiaholic_ has joined

  60. rion has left

  61. rion has joined

  62. mukt2 has joined

  63. rion has left

  64. rion has joined

  65. lorddavidiii has joined

  66. mukt2 has left

  67. bear has joined

  68. adiaholic_ has left

  69. bear has left

  70. adiaholic_ has joined

  71. rion has left

  72. rion has joined

  73. emus has joined

  74. eta has left

  75. eta has joined

  76. mukt2 has joined

  77. mukt2 has left

  78. Nekit has joined

  79. DebXWoody has joined

  80. bear has joined

  81. bear has left

  82. mukt2 has joined

  83. goffi has joined

  84. mukt2 has left

  85. adiaholic_ has left

  86. adiaholic_ has joined

  87. mukt2 has joined

  88. bear has joined

  89. karoshi has joined

  90. j.r has left

  91. j.r has joined

  92. mukt2 has left

  93. Daniel has left

  94. Daniel has joined

  95. Daniel has left

  96. Daniel has joined

  97. bear has left

  98. adiaholic_ has left

  99. adiaholic_ has joined

  100. wurstsalat has left

  101. Nekit has left

  102. MattJ has left

  103. jonas’ has left

  104. flow has left

  105. Neustradamus has left

  106. jubalh has left

  107. paul has left

  108. larma has left

  109. emus has left

  110. flow has joined

  111. Daniel has left

  112. Daniel has joined

  113. jonas’ has joined

  114. j.r has left

  115. j.r has joined

  116. Daniel has left

  117. Daniel has joined

  118. lovetox has left

  119. alameyo has left

  120. alameyo has joined

  121. MattJ has joined

  122. lskdjf has joined

  123. lskdjf has left

  124. lskdjf has joined

  125. larma has joined

  126. Daniel has left

  127. Daniel has joined

  128. Daniel has left

  129. Daniel has joined

  130. eevvoor has joined

  131. goffi has left

  132. goffi has joined

  133. Steve Kille has left

  134. mukt2 has joined

  135. bear has joined

  136. lovetox has joined

  137. Steve Kille has joined

  138. mukt2 has left

  139. bear has left

  140. Neustradamus has joined

  141. edhelas

    would it not be possible to extend XEP-xxxx: MUC presence versioning to XEP-xxxx: Presence versioning ?

  142. edhelas

    I mean it could also be useful for non-muc presences as well no ?

  143. jonas’

    haven’t even read it yet

  144. jonas’ goes to double check which track that document was supposed to be on

  145. goffi has left

  146. goffi has joined

  147. bear has joined

  148. bear has left

  149. edhelas has left

  150. edhelas has joined

  151. arc has left

  152. arc has joined

  153. bear has joined

  154. Daniel has left

  155. Daniel has joined

  156. adiaholic_ has left

  157. adiaholic_ has joined

  158. jubalh has joined

  159. Daniel has left

  160. Daniel has joined

  161. Daniel has left

  162. Daniel has joined

  163. Shell has joined

  164. Daniel has left

  165. Daniel has joined

  166. bear has left

  167. edhelas has left

  168. edhelas has joined

  169. Steve Kille has left

  170. Shell has left

  171. Shell has joined

  172. Daniel has left

  173. Daniel has joined

  174. Daniel has left

  175. Daniel has joined

  176. rion has left

  177. rion has joined

  178. Daniel has left

  179. Daniel has joined

  180. lorddavidiii has left

  181. Daniel has left

  182. Daniel has joined

  183. Steve Kille has joined

  184. jubalh has left

  185. lorddavidiii has joined

  186. Daniel has left

  187. Daniel has joined

  188. Daniel has left

  189. Daniel has joined

  190. lorddavidiii has left

  191. lorddavidiii has joined

  192. robertooo has joined

  193. rion

    where is 1st April xep?

  194. Daniel has left

  195. Daniel has joined

  196. Zash

    April 1st has been canceled due to the pandemic. Please try again next year.

  197. rion

    if anyone survive by the next year..

  198. mukt2 has joined

  199. ichaltop has joined

  200. xelxebar has left

  201. ichaltop has left

  202. bear has joined

  203. Daniel has left

  204. Daniel has joined

  205. mukt2 has left

  206. Daniel has left

  207. Daniel has joined

  208. Shell has left

  209. xelxebar has joined

  210. Daniel has left

  211. Daniel has joined

  212. Daniel has left

  213. Daniel has joined

  214. Shell has joined

  215. bear has left

  216. moparisthebest has joined

  217. Daniel has left

  218. Daniel has joined

  219. calvin has joined

  220. pdurbin has left

  221. jubalh has joined

  222. DebXWoody has left

  223. Daniel has left

  224. Daniel has joined

  225. Shell has left

  226. Shell has joined

  227. calvin has left

  228. calvin has joined

  229. debacle has joined

  230. xelxebar has left

  231. mukt2 has joined

  232. jubalh has left

  233. xelxebar has joined

  234. mukt2 has left

  235. bear has joined

  236. calvin has left

  237. calvin has joined

  238. andrey.g has left

  239. DebXWoody has joined

  240. bear has left

  241. LNJ has joined

  242. andrey.g has joined

  243. mukt2 has joined

  244. bear has joined

  245. mukt2 has left

  246. eevvoor has left

  247. bear has left

  248. pdurbin has joined

  249. jubalh has joined

  250. pdurbin has left

  251. Wojtek has joined

  252. serge90 has left

  253. serge90 has joined

  254. lskdjf has left

  255. lskdjf has joined

  256. Steve Kille has left

  257. Steve Kille has joined

  258. stpeter has joined

  259. stpeter has left

  260. Shell has left

  261. Shell has joined

  262. bear has joined

  263. arc has left

  264. arc has joined

  265. jubalh has left

  266. bear has left

  267. lovetox has left

  268. arc has left

  269. arc has joined

  270. emus has joined

  271. jubalh has joined

  272. jonas’

    uh, does anyone know how the chat is implemented in jitsi-meet? I don’t seem to see any message stanzas within prosody when I send a mesasge from jitsi, but I may also just be stupid

  273. pep.

    I should be standard MUC I think

  274. jonas’

    yeah, it *should*

  275. jonas’

    but I can’t see any stanzas in prosodys debug log when I send a chat message in jitsi-meet

  276. jonas’

    despite it going to http-bind?...

  277. pep.

    dumb question: generally it's configured as another domain by default, is that the good prosody you're looking at?

  278. Ge0rG

    MattJ: NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID on https://logs.xmpp.org/

  279. calvin has left

  280. Ge0rG

    Also 404 on the logs.

  281. Shell has left

  282. Shell has joined

  283. Steve Kille has left

  284. MattJ

    Ge0rG, try now

  285. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I still get NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID

  286. MattJ

    Close the tab? Test with curl?

  287. MattJ

    What name do you get?

  288. Ge0rG

    X509v3 Subject Alternative Name: DNS:xmpp.org

  289. Ge0rG

    MattJ: reload nginx?

  290. MattJ

    If it was nginx's fault, why does it work fine for me? (browser and curl)

  291. larma

    doesn't work for me either

  292. MattJ

    Hmm

  293. MattJ

    I wonder if it's IPv4/6 related

  294. Zash

    ~$ curl https://logs.xmpp.org/ curl: (60) SSL: no alternative certificate subject name matches target host name 'logs.xmpp.org'

  295. Zash

    Yes

  296. larma

    it also opens xmpp.org for me, not logs.xmpp.org

  297. Zash

    curl -4 works

  298. MattJ

    Ok, thanks

  299. MattJ

    So if you could all just switch to v4, it'll work fine

  300. MattJ

    Thanks

  301. !XSF_Martin

    logs.xmpp.org? Works here.

  302. pep.

    worksforme

  303. pep.

    on both 6/4

  304. Ge0rG

    both hostnames resolve to the same pair of ipv4 + ipv6 addresses

  305. Ge0rG

    something is broken on that machine

  306. !XSF_Martin

    Ah ok, also doesn't work on v6 here

  307. pep.

    hmm, ok nvm it also doesn't work on 6

  308. MattJ

    Ge0rG, try now?

  309. Ge0rG

    MattJ: X509v3 Subject Alternative Name: DNS:wiki.xmpp.org

  310. MattJ

    Success! :D

  311. Ge0rG

    It changed, but not to the better.

  312. paul has joined

  313. pep.

    Is the vhost config not the same for both?

  314. Zash

    Still borked here

  315. jubalh has left

  316. MattJ

    Ge0rG, and now?

  317. pep.

    yes

  318. Zash

    ÄNTLIGEN!

  319. Ge0rG

    MattJ: 👍

  320. Ge0rG

    https://logs.xmpp.org/favicon.ico is a 400 though

  321. MattJ

    Thanks

  322. MattJ

    Terrible

  323. Zash

    Haha what

  324. Zash

    Bad Ge0rG, don't make such requests!

  325. MattJ

    You've seen Zash's logo design, is that really what you want?

  326. pdurbin has joined

  327. Ge0rG

    Zash: where's my blackhat Hat?

  328. Zash

    🎩️

  329. Ge0rG

    stylish

  330. Zash

    Can you do fitzpatrik modifiers on hats?

  331. Zash

    Stick a `<link rel=icon href=//xmpp.org/theme/images/xmpp-logo.svg>` in the theme.

  332. Zash

    MattJ: Oh and maybe copy the theme to somewhere covered by backups?

  333. pdurbin has left

  334. bear has joined

  335. jubalh has joined

  336. Daniel has left

  337. Daniel has joined

  338. jubalh has left

  339. jubalh has joined

  340. Daniel has left

  341. Daniel has joined

  342. Daniel has left

  343. Daniel has joined

  344. Daniel has left

  345. Daniel has joined

  346. Daniel has left

  347. Daniel has joined

  348. Daniel has left

  349. Daniel has joined

  350. Daniel has left

  351. Daniel has joined

  352. Daniel has left

  353. bear has left

  354. Steve Kille has joined

  355. Daniel has joined

  356. Daniel has left

  357. Daniel has joined

  358. jubalh has left

  359. lovetox has joined

  360. serge90 has left

  361. serge90 has joined

  362. mukt2 has joined

  363. serge90 has left

  364. serge90 has joined

  365. adiaholic_ has left

  366. adiaholic_ has joined

  367. mukt2 has left

  368. adiaholic_ has left

  369. adiaholic_ has joined

  370. serge90 has left

  371. bear has joined

  372. serge90 has joined

  373. krauq has left

  374. krauq has joined

  375. sonny has left

  376. APach has left

  377. APach has joined

  378. emus has left

  379. serge90 has left

  380. jonas’

    is there any way to reach the jitsi folks which isn’t an annoying web 2.0 forum?

  381. pep.

    They had a mailing list no?

  382. jonas’

    I thought of something less long-term

  383. jonas’

    a chat, for example

  384. pep.

    dunno

  385. jonas’

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  386. jonas’

    I was on the wrong machine. the. whole. time.

  387. Zash

    OOF

  388. pep.

    so I was right? :P

  389. jonas’

    note to self: two boxes which are both called jitsi.domain.example is a terrible idea

  390. LNJ has left

  391. jonas’

    pep., essentially, yes

  392. LNJ has joined

  393. LNJ has left

  394. Neustradamus

    jonas’: https://community.jitsi.org/

  395. jonas’

    > The site at https://community.jitsi.org/ has experienced a network protocol violation that cannot be repaired.

  396. jonas’

    also, isn’t that exactly the crappy web 2.0 forum I did *not* want?

  397. bear has left

  398. Yagiza has left

  399. waqas has joined

  400. serge90 has joined

  401. serge90 has left

  402. serge90 has joined

  403. calvin has joined

  404. serge90 has left

  405. serge90 has joined

  406. j.r has left

  407. APach has left

  408. APach has joined

  409. serge90 has left

  410. serge90 has joined

  411. arc has left

  412. arc has joined

  413. werdan has joined

  414. serge90 has left

  415. serge90 has joined

  416. pdurbin has joined

  417. serge90 has left

  418. serge90 has joined

  419. j.r has joined

  420. adiaholic_ has left

  421. adiaholic_ has joined

  422. pdurbin has left

  423. sonny has joined

  424. serge90 has left

  425. serge90 has joined

  426. bear has joined

  427. serge90 has left

  428. serge90 has joined

  429. serge90 has left

  430. serge90 has joined

  431. alexis has left

  432. jubalh has joined

  433. serge90 has left

  434. serge90 has joined

  435. Neustradamus

    -> https://jitsi.org/lists

  436. jonas’

    > Mailing Lists (Deprecated)

  437. jonas’

    it’s huge and fat there

  438. bear has left

  439. xtofe has joined

  440. intosi has left

  441. xtofe has left

  442. Nekit has joined

  443. intosi has joined

  444. adiaholic_ has left

  445. emus has joined

  446. Shell has left

  447. serge90 has left

  448. serge90 has joined

  449. serge90 has left

  450. serge90 has joined

  451. serge90 has left

  452. serge90 has joined

  453. Zash

    jonas’: is XEP-050 on that list of advancement candidates?

  454. jonas’

    nope, but it should be, good catch

  455. j.r has left

  456. serge90 has left

  457. serge90 has joined

  458. Zash

    > ..., the responder SHOULD respond with a 403 "Forbidden" error. Lol numeric error codes

  459. jubalh has left

  460. Zash

    Style / XEP schema question: Is the date of advancements available?

  461. jonas’

    Zash, more or less

  462. jonas’

    you see when the version number jumps from 0 -> 1 and 1 -> 2 in the version log

  463. Zash

    > Version 1.0 (2003-05-19) > Per a vote of the Jabber Council, advanced status to Draft.

  464. serge90 has left

  465. serge90 has joined

  466. Zash

    And then 17 years of only editorial updates?

  467. jonas’

    :D

  468. jonas’

    a prime candidate indeed

  469. mukt2 has joined

  470. pep.

    re MUC presence versioning, is there a way for a client not to do it? Just don't include @ver? I understand the server will always include it if it supports it though

  471. serge90 has left

  472. pep.

    Also the presence filtering thing, does that depend on presence versioning?

  473. serge90 has joined

  474. Zash

    Hoh, XEP-0092 was Historical originally?

  475. j.r has joined

  476. mukt2 has left

  477. serge90 has left

  478. serge90 has joined

  479. bear has joined

  480. Vaulor has left

  481. Seve has left

  482. Vaulor has joined

  483. Seve has joined

  484. serge90 has left

  485. serge90 has joined

  486. magnus has joined

  487. Vaulor has left

  488. Seve has left

  489. Vaulor has joined

  490. Seve has joined

  491. serge90 has left

  492. serge90 has joined

  493. Ge0rG

    pep.: you can not include an outgoing @ver and ignore the incoming @ver to not do versioning

  494. david has left

  495. intosi has left

  496. Ge0rG

    pep.: presence filtering as in "only deliver presence of members"? That's out of scope of *that* XEP

  497. pep.

    no, the other one

  498. Zash

    Isn't that in 45 already?

  499. pep.

    "only include available and unavailable"

  500. magnus has left

  501. Vaulor has left

  502. Seve has left

  503. lovetox

    is there some other type beside error in a muc?

  504. Zash

    Haha, true

  505. Seve has joined

  506. Vaulor has joined

  507. Ge0rG

    pep.: that's out of scope too

  508. pep.

    Why is that mentioned in there. I thought that was actually suggestions

  509. Ge0rG

    However, it will still feed you 2000 presence stanzas for a 2000 user room

  510. Ge0rG

    pep.: "suggestion" ≠ "protocol" 😉

  511. pep.

    Sure sure, well just like "mam can be done with pubsub" seems to be enough for people to implement it

  512. serge90 has left

  513. serge90 has joined

  514. Ge0rG

    pep.: AFAICS all you need is a config option on the room data form

  515. Zash

    pep., did you mean only joins and parts?

  516. Ge0rG

    You can get bonus points by adding that option to the registry

  517. intosi has joined

  518. jonas’

    which registry?

  519. pep.

    Zash, yeah

  520. pep.

    I'm not asking for it I was just curious how that would work

  521. pep.

    or rather, as I said above, if that was tied to this new xep

  522. pep.

    proto*xep

  523. david has joined

  524. bear has left

  525. Ge0rG

    jonas’: thank you, I anticipated somebody asking that question!

  526. Ge0rG

    pep.: have a room config option to strip everything but join / part

  527. serge90 has left

  528. serge90 has joined

  529. Zash

    Hmmmm

  530. Zash

    Ge0rG: Optimization for YUUUUGE rooms?

  531. xsf has left

  532. serge90 has left

  533. calvin has left

  534. serge90 has joined

  535. stpeter has joined

  536. stpeter has left

  537. serge90 has left

  538. serge90 has joined

  539. Zash

    What If you only send presence for those who have spoken recently (last x messages or y time) (maybe admins too), then if someone not in that says something, you send presence with a delay stamp to indicate that they didn't join just now but were here already

  540. intosi has left

  541. Zash

    not in that set*

  542. xsf has joined

  543. DebXWoody has left

  544. serge90 has left

  545. serge90 has joined

  546. bear has joined

  547. serge90 has left

  548. serge90 has joined

  549. Ge0rG

    Delay stamps are another thing that I forgot to mention in my mail, cc MattJ

  550. Ge0rG

    Zash: what if you don't send presence changes at all?

  551. Zash

    Ge0rG: As in status updates?

  552. serge90 has left

  553. serge90 has joined

  554. Marc has left

  555. Marc has joined

  556. Ge0rG

    Zash: just mark everybody as available initially and then send empty presence versioning ;)

  557. mukt2 has joined

  558. Zash

    Heh

  559. Zash

    Ge0rG: Killing caps? And avatars? And everyhing making XMPP different from IRC?

  560. Ge0rG

    Zash: IRC still has occupant availability :P

  561. MattJ

    For large public channels, or where this info is fetched from elsewhere, I think it makes sense

  562. Ge0rG

    MattJ: indeed you could use that for a moderated room with a large audience

  563. MattJ

    I don't need to see 15k avatars, nor is that sane

  564. Zash

    Ge0rG: IIRC that's a poll thing

  565. serge90 has left

  566. serge90 has joined

  567. Ge0rG

    you could implement that today. only send the five moderators and self-presence

  568. Zash

    Yup

  569. xsf has left

  570. jubalh has joined

  571. Ge0rG

    Zash: integrate delayed-presence-before-message with CSN tracking and you have still much live presence, but not as much

  572. Zash

    ib4 everyone's constantly spamming <active> and <inactive>

  573. Ge0rG

    Zash: that would get filtered except for when you actually send a message to the room

  574. Ge0rG

    or... a reaction or a marker.

  575. mukt2 has left

  576. serge90 has left

  577. serge90 has joined

  578. Zash

    Also, smart filtered broadcasting of such stuff would be so nice. Ala PEPs +notify but message payloads in MUC.

  579. bear has left

  580. serge90 has left

  581. serge90 has joined

  582. Ge0rG

    Zash: did you just invent MIX?

  583. serge90 has left

  584. serge90 has joined

  585. Zash

    Ge0rG: All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again, and again, and again...

  586. xsf has joined

  587. andrey.g has left

  588. serge90 has left

  589. serge90 has joined

  590. krauq has left

  591. jubalh has left

  592. serge90 has left

  593. serge90 has joined

  594. krauq has joined

  595. serge90 has left

  596. serge90 has joined

  597. DebXWoody has joined

  598. xsf has left

  599. DebXWoody has left

  600. xsf has joined

  601. xsf has left

  602. serge90 has left

  603. serge90 has joined

  604. serge90 has left

  605. serge90 has joined

  606. jubalh has joined

  607. werdan has left

  608. lovetox has left

  609. serge90 has left

  610. serge90 has joined

  611. bear has joined

  612. mukt2 has joined

  613. serge90 has left

  614. serge90 has joined

  615. serge90 has left

  616. serge90 has joined

  617. Tobias has left

  618. jubalh has left

  619. serge90 has left

  620. mukt2 has left

  621. moparisthebest has left

  622. Slava has joined

  623. Kev has left

  624. Steve Kille has left

  625. Slava has left

  626. alexis has joined

  627. mimi89999 has left

  628. robertooo has left

  629. mimi89999 has joined

  630. moparisthebest has joined

  631. intosi has joined

  632. mukt2 has joined

  633. Steve Kille has joined

  634. mukt2 has left

  635. gav has left

  636. mukt2 has joined

  637. intosi has left

  638. mukt2 has left

  639. mukt2 has joined

  640. jubalh has joined

  641. gav has joined

  642. pdurbin has joined

  643. intosi has joined

  644. pdurbin has left

  645. xsf has joined

  646. jubalh has left

  647. krauq has left

  648. intosi has left

  649. mukt2 has left

  650. mukt2 has joined

  651. winfried has left

  652. winfried has joined

  653. winfried has left

  654. winfried has joined

  655. goffi has left

  656. goffi has joined

  657. goffi has left

  658. xsf has left

  659. xsf has joined

  660. krauq has joined

  661. jubalh has joined

  662. moparisthebest has left

  663. moparisthebest has joined

  664. andrey.g has joined

  665. jubalh has left

  666. debacle has left

  667. intosi has joined

  668. winfried has left

  669. winfried has joined

  670. winfried has left

  671. winfried has joined

  672. lorddavidiii has left

  673. mukt2 has left

  674. jubalh has joined

  675. adiaholic_ has joined

  676. intosi has left

  677. Wojtek has left

  678. moparisthebest has left

  679. moparisthebest has joined

  680. emus has left

  681. moparisthebest has left

  682. moparisthebest has joined

  683. intosi has joined

  684. moparisthebest has left

  685. moparisthebest has joined

  686. adiaholic_ has left

  687. adiaholic_ has joined