XSF Discussion - 2020-04-01


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  141. edhelas would it not be possible to extend XEP-xxxx: MUC presence versioning to XEP-xxxx: Presence versioning ?
  142. edhelas I mean it could also be useful for non-muc presences as well no ?
  143. jonas’ haven’t even read it yet
  144. jonas’ goes to double check which track that document was supposed to be on
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  193. rion where is 1st April xep?
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  196. Zash April 1st has been canceled due to the pandemic. Please try again next year.
  197. rion if anyone survive by the next year..
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  272. jonas’ uh, does anyone know how the chat is implemented in jitsi-meet? I don’t seem to see any message stanzas within prosody when I send a mesasge from jitsi, but I may also just be stupid
  273. pep. I should be standard MUC I think
  274. jonas’ yeah, it *should*
  275. jonas’ but I can’t see any stanzas in prosodys debug log when I send a chat message in jitsi-meet
  276. jonas’ despite it going to http-bind?...
  277. pep. dumb question: generally it's configured as another domain by default, is that the good prosody you're looking at?
  278. Ge0rG MattJ: NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID on https://logs.xmpp.org/
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  280. Ge0rG Also 404 on the logs.
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  284. MattJ Ge0rG, try now
  285. Ge0rG MattJ: I still get NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID
  286. MattJ Close the tab? Test with curl?
  287. MattJ What name do you get?
  288. Ge0rG X509v3 Subject Alternative Name: DNS:xmpp.org
  289. Ge0rG MattJ: reload nginx?
  290. MattJ If it was nginx's fault, why does it work fine for me? (browser and curl)
  291. larma doesn't work for me either
  292. MattJ Hmm
  293. MattJ I wonder if it's IPv4/6 related
  294. Zash ~$ curl https://logs.xmpp.org/ curl: (60) SSL: no alternative certificate subject name matches target host name 'logs.xmpp.org'
  295. Zash Yes
  296. larma it also opens xmpp.org for me, not logs.xmpp.org
  297. Zash curl -4 works
  298. MattJ Ok, thanks
  299. MattJ So if you could all just switch to v4, it'll work fine
  300. MattJ Thanks
  301. !XSF_Martin logs.xmpp.org? Works here.
  302. pep. worksforme
  303. pep. on both 6/4
  304. Ge0rG both hostnames resolve to the same pair of ipv4 + ipv6 addresses
  305. Ge0rG something is broken on that machine
  306. !XSF_Martin Ah ok, also doesn't work on v6 here
  307. pep. hmm, ok nvm it also doesn't work on 6
  308. MattJ Ge0rG, try now?
  309. Ge0rG MattJ: X509v3 Subject Alternative Name: DNS:wiki.xmpp.org
  310. MattJ Success! :D
  311. Ge0rG It changed, but not to the better.
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  313. pep. Is the vhost config not the same for both?
  314. Zash Still borked here
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  316. MattJ Ge0rG, and now?
  317. pep. yes
  318. Zash ÄNTLIGEN!
  319. Ge0rG MattJ: 👍
  320. Ge0rG https://logs.xmpp.org/favicon.ico is a 400 though
  321. MattJ Thanks
  322. MattJ Terrible
  323. Zash Haha what
  324. Zash Bad Ge0rG, don't make such requests!
  325. MattJ You've seen Zash's logo design, is that really what you want?
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  327. Ge0rG Zash: where's my blackhat Hat?
  328. Zash 🎩️
  329. Ge0rG stylish
  330. Zash Can you do fitzpatrik modifiers on hats?
  331. Zash Stick a `<link rel=icon href=//xmpp.org/theme/images/xmpp-logo.svg>` in the theme.
  332. Zash MattJ: Oh and maybe copy the theme to somewhere covered by backups?
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  380. jonas’ is there any way to reach the jitsi folks which isn’t an annoying web 2.0 forum?
  381. pep. They had a mailing list no?
  382. jonas’ I thought of something less long-term
  383. jonas’ a chat, for example
  384. pep. dunno
  385. jonas’ aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
  386. jonas’ I was on the wrong machine. the. whole. time.
  387. Zash OOF
  388. pep. so I was right? :P
  389. jonas’ note to self: two boxes which are both called jitsi.domain.example is a terrible idea
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  391. jonas’ pep., essentially, yes
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  394. Neustradamus jonas’: https://community.jitsi.org/
  395. jonas’ > The site at https://community.jitsi.org/ has experienced a network protocol violation that cannot be repaired.
  396. jonas’ also, isn’t that exactly the crappy web 2.0 forum I did *not* want?
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  435. Neustradamus -> https://jitsi.org/lists
  436. jonas’ > Mailing Lists (Deprecated)
  437. jonas’ it’s huge and fat there
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  453. Zash jonas’: is XEP-050 on that list of advancement candidates?
  454. jonas’ nope, but it should be, good catch
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  458. Zash > ..., the responder SHOULD respond with a 403 "Forbidden" error. Lol numeric error codes
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  460. Zash Style / XEP schema question: Is the date of advancements available?
  461. jonas’ Zash, more or less
  462. jonas’ you see when the version number jumps from 0 -> 1 and 1 -> 2 in the version log
  463. Zash > Version 1.0 (2003-05-19) > Per a vote of the Jabber Council, advanced status to Draft.
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  466. Zash And then 17 years of only editorial updates?
  467. jonas’ :D
  468. jonas’ a prime candidate indeed
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  470. pep. re MUC presence versioning, is there a way for a client not to do it? Just don't include @ver? I understand the server will always include it if it supports it though
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  472. pep. Also the presence filtering thing, does that depend on presence versioning?
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  474. Zash Hoh, XEP-0092 was Historical originally?
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  493. Ge0rG pep.: you can not include an outgoing @ver and ignore the incoming @ver to not do versioning
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  496. Ge0rG pep.: presence filtering as in "only deliver presence of members"? That's out of scope of *that* XEP
  497. pep. no, the other one
  498. Zash Isn't that in 45 already?
  499. pep. "only include available and unavailable"
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  503. lovetox is there some other type beside error in a muc?
  504. Zash Haha, true
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  507. Ge0rG pep.: that's out of scope too
  508. pep. Why is that mentioned in there. I thought that was actually suggestions
  509. Ge0rG However, it will still feed you 2000 presence stanzas for a 2000 user room
  510. Ge0rG pep.: "suggestion" ≠ "protocol" 😉
  511. pep. Sure sure, well just like "mam can be done with pubsub" seems to be enough for people to implement it
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  514. Ge0rG pep.: AFAICS all you need is a config option on the room data form
  515. Zash pep., did you mean only joins and parts?
  516. Ge0rG You can get bonus points by adding that option to the registry
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  518. jonas’ which registry?
  519. pep. Zash, yeah
  520. pep. I'm not asking for it I was just curious how that would work
  521. pep. or rather, as I said above, if that was tied to this new xep
  522. pep. proto*xep
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  525. Ge0rG jonas’: thank you, I anticipated somebody asking that question!
  526. Ge0rG pep.: have a room config option to strip everything but join / part
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  529. Zash Hmmmm
  530. Zash Ge0rG: Optimization for YUUUUGE rooms?
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  539. Zash What If you only send presence for those who have spoken recently (last x messages or y time) (maybe admins too), then if someone not in that says something, you send presence with a delay stamp to indicate that they didn't join just now but were here already
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  541. Zash not in that set*
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  549. Ge0rG Delay stamps are another thing that I forgot to mention in my mail, cc MattJ
  550. Ge0rG Zash: what if you don't send presence changes at all?
  551. Zash Ge0rG: As in status updates?
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  556. Ge0rG Zash: just mark everybody as available initially and then send empty presence versioning ;)
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  558. Zash Heh
  559. Zash Ge0rG: Killing caps? And avatars? And everyhing making XMPP different from IRC?
  560. Ge0rG Zash: IRC still has occupant availability :P
  561. MattJ For large public channels, or where this info is fetched from elsewhere, I think it makes sense
  562. Ge0rG MattJ: indeed you could use that for a moderated room with a large audience
  563. MattJ I don't need to see 15k avatars, nor is that sane
  564. Zash Ge0rG: IIRC that's a poll thing
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  567. Ge0rG you could implement that today. only send the five moderators and self-presence
  568. Zash Yup
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  571. Ge0rG Zash: integrate delayed-presence-before-message with CSN tracking and you have still much live presence, but not as much
  572. Zash ib4 everyone's constantly spamming <active> and <inactive>
  573. Ge0rG Zash: that would get filtered except for when you actually send a message to the room
  574. Ge0rG or... a reaction or a marker.
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  578. Zash Also, smart filtered broadcasting of such stuff would be so nice. Ala PEPs +notify but message payloads in MUC.
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  582. Ge0rG Zash: did you just invent MIX?
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  585. Zash Ge0rG: All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again, and again, and again...
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