XSF Discussion - 2020-04-01

  1. edhelas

    would it not be possible to extend XEP-xxxx: MUC presence versioning to XEP-xxxx: Presence versioning ?

  2. edhelas

    I mean it could also be useful for non-muc presences as well no ?

  3. jonas’

    haven’t even read it yet

  4. jonas’ goes to double check which track that document was supposed to be on

  5. rion

    where is 1st April xep?

  6. Zash

    April 1st has been canceled due to the pandemic. Please try again next year.

  7. rion

    if anyone survive by the next year..

  8. jonas’

    uh, does anyone know how the chat is implemented in jitsi-meet? I don’t seem to see any message stanzas within prosody when I send a mesasge from jitsi, but I may also just be stupid

  9. pep.

    I should be standard MUC I think

  10. jonas’

    yeah, it *should*

  11. jonas’

    but I can’t see any stanzas in prosodys debug log when I send a chat message in jitsi-meet

  12. jonas’

    despite it going to http-bind?...

  13. pep.

    dumb question: generally it's configured as another domain by default, is that the good prosody you're looking at?

  14. Ge0rG

    MattJ: NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID on https://logs.xmpp.org/

  15. Ge0rG

    Also 404 on the logs.

  16. MattJ

    Ge0rG, try now

  17. Ge0rG


  18. MattJ

    Close the tab? Test with curl?

  19. MattJ

    What name do you get?

  20. Ge0rG

    X509v3 Subject Alternative Name: DNS:xmpp.org

  21. Ge0rG

    MattJ: reload nginx?

  22. MattJ

    If it was nginx's fault, why does it work fine for me? (browser and curl)

  23. larma

    doesn't work for me either

  24. MattJ


  25. MattJ

    I wonder if it's IPv4/6 related

  26. Zash

    ~$ curl https://logs.xmpp.org/ curl: (60) SSL: no alternative certificate subject name matches target host name 'logs.xmpp.org'

  27. Zash


  28. larma

    it also opens xmpp.org for me, not logs.xmpp.org

  29. Zash

    curl -4 works

  30. MattJ

    Ok, thanks

  31. MattJ

    So if you could all just switch to v4, it'll work fine

  32. MattJ


  33. !XSF_Martin

    logs.xmpp.org? Works here.

  34. pep.


  35. pep.

    on both 6/4

  36. Ge0rG

    both hostnames resolve to the same pair of ipv4 + ipv6 addresses

  37. Ge0rG

    something is broken on that machine

  38. !XSF_Martin

    Ah ok, also doesn't work on v6 here

  39. pep.

    hmm, ok nvm it also doesn't work on 6

  40. MattJ

    Ge0rG, try now?

  41. Ge0rG

    MattJ: X509v3 Subject Alternative Name: DNS:wiki.xmpp.org

  42. MattJ

    Success! :D

  43. Ge0rG

    It changed, but not to the better.

  44. pep.

    Is the vhost config not the same for both?

  45. Zash

    Still borked here

  46. MattJ

    Ge0rG, and now?

  47. pep.


  48. Zash


  49. Ge0rG

    MattJ: 👍

  50. Ge0rG

    https://logs.xmpp.org/favicon.ico is a 400 though

  51. MattJ


  52. MattJ


  53. Zash

    Haha what

  54. Zash

    Bad Ge0rG, don't make such requests!

  55. MattJ

    You've seen Zash's logo design, is that really what you want?

  56. Ge0rG

    Zash: where's my blackhat Hat?

  57. Zash


  58. Ge0rG


  59. Zash

    Can you do fitzpatrik modifiers on hats?

  60. Zash

    Stick a `<link rel=icon href=//xmpp.org/theme/images/xmpp-logo.svg>` in the theme.

  61. Zash

    MattJ: Oh and maybe copy the theme to somewhere covered by backups?

  62. jonas’

    is there any way to reach the jitsi folks which isn’t an annoying web 2.0 forum?

  63. pep.

    They had a mailing list no?

  64. jonas’

    I thought of something less long-term

  65. jonas’

    a chat, for example

  66. pep.


  67. jonas’


  68. jonas’

    I was on the wrong machine. the. whole. time.

  69. Zash


  70. pep.

    so I was right? :P

  71. jonas’

    note to self: two boxes which are both called jitsi.domain.example is a terrible idea

  72. jonas’

    pep., essentially, yes

  73. Neustradamus

    jonas’: https://community.jitsi.org/

  74. jonas’

    > The site at https://community.jitsi.org/ has experienced a network protocol violation that cannot be repaired.

  75. jonas’

    also, isn’t that exactly the crappy web 2.0 forum I did *not* want?

  76. Neustradamus

    -> https://jitsi.org/lists

  77. jonas’

    > Mailing Lists (Deprecated)

  78. jonas’

    it’s huge and fat there

  79. Zash

    jonas’: is XEP-050 on that list of advancement candidates?

  80. jonas’

    nope, but it should be, good catch

  81. Zash

    > ..., the responder SHOULD respond with a 403 "Forbidden" error. Lol numeric error codes

  82. Zash

    Style / XEP schema question: Is the date of advancements available?

  83. jonas’

    Zash, more or less

  84. jonas’

    you see when the version number jumps from 0 -> 1 and 1 -> 2 in the version log

  85. Zash

    > Version 1.0 (2003-05-19) > Per a vote of the Jabber Council, advanced status to Draft.

  86. Zash

    And then 17 years of only editorial updates?

  87. jonas’


  88. jonas’

    a prime candidate indeed

  89. pep.

    re MUC presence versioning, is there a way for a client not to do it? Just don't include @ver? I understand the server will always include it if it supports it though

  90. pep.

    Also the presence filtering thing, does that depend on presence versioning?

  91. Zash

    Hoh, XEP-0092 was Historical originally?

  92. Ge0rG

    pep.: you can not include an outgoing @ver and ignore the incoming @ver to not do versioning

  93. Ge0rG

    pep.: presence filtering as in "only deliver presence of members"? That's out of scope of *that* XEP

  94. pep.

    no, the other one

  95. Zash

    Isn't that in 45 already?

  96. pep.

    "only include available and unavailable"

  97. lovetox

    is there some other type beside error in a muc?

  98. Zash

    Haha, true

  99. Ge0rG

    pep.: that's out of scope too

  100. pep.

    Why is that mentioned in there. I thought that was actually suggestions

  101. Ge0rG

    However, it will still feed you 2000 presence stanzas for a 2000 user room

  102. Ge0rG

    pep.: "suggestion" ≠ "protocol" 😉

  103. pep.

    Sure sure, well just like "mam can be done with pubsub" seems to be enough for people to implement it

  104. Ge0rG

    pep.: AFAICS all you need is a config option on the room data form

  105. Zash

    pep., did you mean only joins and parts?

  106. Ge0rG

    You can get bonus points by adding that option to the registry

  107. jonas’

    which registry?

  108. pep.

    Zash, yeah

  109. pep.

    I'm not asking for it I was just curious how that would work

  110. pep.

    or rather, as I said above, if that was tied to this new xep

  111. pep.


  112. Ge0rG

    jonas’: thank you, I anticipated somebody asking that question!

  113. Ge0rG

    pep.: have a room config option to strip everything but join / part

  114. Zash


  115. Zash

    Ge0rG: Optimization for YUUUUGE rooms?

  116. Zash

    What If you only send presence for those who have spoken recently (last x messages or y time) (maybe admins too), then if someone not in that says something, you send presence with a delay stamp to indicate that they didn't join just now but were here already

  117. Zash

    not in that set*

  118. Ge0rG

    Delay stamps are another thing that I forgot to mention in my mail, cc MattJ

  119. Ge0rG

    Zash: what if you don't send presence changes at all?

  120. Zash

    Ge0rG: As in status updates?

  121. Ge0rG

    Zash: just mark everybody as available initially and then send empty presence versioning ;)

  122. Zash


  123. Zash

    Ge0rG: Killing caps? And avatars? And everyhing making XMPP different from IRC?

  124. Ge0rG

    Zash: IRC still has occupant availability :P

  125. MattJ

    For large public channels, or where this info is fetched from elsewhere, I think it makes sense

  126. Ge0rG

    MattJ: indeed you could use that for a moderated room with a large audience

  127. MattJ

    I don't need to see 15k avatars, nor is that sane

  128. Zash

    Ge0rG: IIRC that's a poll thing

  129. Ge0rG

    you could implement that today. only send the five moderators and self-presence

  130. Zash


  131. Ge0rG

    Zash: integrate delayed-presence-before-message with CSN tracking and you have still much live presence, but not as much

  132. Zash

    ib4 everyone's constantly spamming <active> and <inactive>

  133. Ge0rG

    Zash: that would get filtered except for when you actually send a message to the room

  134. Ge0rG

    or... a reaction or a marker.

  135. Zash

    Also, smart filtered broadcasting of such stuff would be so nice. Ala PEPs +notify but message payloads in MUC.

  136. Ge0rG

    Zash: did you just invent MIX?

  137. Zash

    Ge0rG: All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again, and again, and again...