XSF Discussion - 2020-04-01

would it not be possible to extend XEP-xxxx: MUC presence versioning to XEP-xxxx: Presence versioning ?

I mean it could also be useful for non-muc presences as well no ?

haven’t even read it yet

where is 1st April xep?

April 1st has been canceled due to the pandemic. Please try again next year.

if anyone survive by the next year..

uh, does anyone know how the chat is implemented in jitsi-meet? I don’t seem to see any message stanzas within prosody when I send a mesasge from jitsi, but I may also just be stupid

I should be standard MUC I think

yeah, it *should*

but I can’t see any stanzas in prosodys debug log when I send a chat message in jitsi-meet

despite it going to http-bind?...

dumb question: generally it's configured as another domain by default, is that the good prosody you're looking at?

MattJ: NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID on https://logs.xmpp.org/

Also 404 on the logs.

Ge0rG, try now

MattJ: I still get NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID

Close the tab? Test with curl?

What name do you get?

X509v3 Subject Alternative Name: DNS:xmpp.org

MattJ: reload nginx?

If it was nginx's fault, why does it work fine for me? (browser and curl)

doesn't work for me either

Hmm

I wonder if it's IPv4/6 related

~$ curl https://logs.xmpp.org/ curl: (60) SSL: no alternative certificate subject name matches target host name 'logs.xmpp.org'

Yes

it also opens xmpp.org for me, not logs.xmpp.org

curl -4 works

Ok, thanks

So if you could all just switch to v4, it'll work fine

Thanks

logs.xmpp.org? Works here.

worksforme

on both 6/4

both hostnames resolve to the same pair of ipv4 + ipv6 addresses

something is broken on that machine

Ah ok, also doesn't work on v6 here

hmm, ok nvm it also doesn't work on 6

Ge0rG, try now?

MattJ: X509v3 Subject Alternative Name: DNS:wiki.xmpp.org

Success! :D

It changed, but not to the better.

Is the vhost config not the same for both?

Still borked here

Ge0rG, and now?

yes

ÄNTLIGEN!

MattJ: 👍

https://logs.xmpp.org/favicon.ico is a 400 though

Thanks

Terrible

Haha what

Bad Ge0rG, don't make such requests!

You've seen Zash's logo design, is that really what you want?

Zash: where's my blackhat Hat?

🎩️

stylish

Can you do fitzpatrik modifiers on hats?

Stick a `<link rel=icon href=//xmpp.org/theme/images/xmpp-logo.svg>` in the theme.

MattJ: Oh and maybe copy the theme to somewhere covered by backups?

is there any way to reach the jitsi folks which isn’t an annoying web 2.0 forum?

They had a mailing list no?

I thought of something less long-term

a chat, for example

dunno

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I was on the wrong machine. the. whole. time.

OOF

so I was right? :P

note to self: two boxes which are both called jitsi.domain.example is a terrible idea

pep., essentially, yes

jonas’: https://community.jitsi.org/

> The site at https://community.jitsi.org/ has experienced a network protocol violation that cannot be repaired.

also, isn’t that exactly the crappy web 2.0 forum I did *not* want?

-> https://jitsi.org/lists

> Mailing Lists (Deprecated)

it’s huge and fat there

jonas’: is XEP-050 on that list of advancement candidates?

nope, but it should be, good catch

> ..., the responder SHOULD respond with a 403 "Forbidden" error. Lol numeric error codes

Style / XEP schema question: Is the date of advancements available?

Zash, more or less

you see when the version number jumps from 0 -> 1 and 1 -> 2 in the version log

> Version 1.0 (2003-05-19) > Per a vote of the Jabber Council, advanced status to Draft.

And then 17 years of only editorial updates?

:D

a prime candidate indeed

re MUC presence versioning, is there a way for a client not to do it? Just don't include @ver? I understand the server will always include it if it supports it though

Also the presence filtering thing, does that depend on presence versioning?

Hoh, XEP-0092 was Historical originally?

pep.: you can not include an outgoing @ver and ignore the incoming @ver to not do versioning

pep.: presence filtering as in "only deliver presence of members"? That's out of scope of *that* XEP

no, the other one

Isn't that in 45 already?

"only include available and unavailable"

is there some other type beside error in a muc?

Haha, true

pep.: that's out of scope too

Why is that mentioned in there. I thought that was actually suggestions

However, it will still feed you 2000 presence stanzas for a 2000 user room

pep.: "suggestion" ≠ "protocol" 😉

Sure sure, well just like "mam can be done with pubsub" seems to be enough for people to implement it

pep.: AFAICS all you need is a config option on the room data form

pep., did you mean only joins and parts?

You can get bonus points by adding that option to the registry

which registry?

Zash, yeah

I'm not asking for it I was just curious how that would work

or rather, as I said above, if that was tied to this new xep

proto*xep

jonas’: thank you, I anticipated somebody asking that question!

pep.: have a room config option to strip everything but join / part

Hmmmm

Ge0rG: Optimization for YUUUUGE rooms?

What If you only send presence for those who have spoken recently (last x messages or y time) (maybe admins too), then if someone not in that says something, you send presence with a delay stamp to indicate that they didn't join just now but were here already

not in that set*

Delay stamps are another thing that I forgot to mention in my mail, cc MattJ

Zash: what if you don't send presence changes at all?

Ge0rG: As in status updates?

Zash: just mark everybody as available initially and then send empty presence versioning ;)

Heh

Ge0rG: Killing caps? And avatars? And everyhing making XMPP different from IRC?

Zash: IRC still has occupant availability :P

For large public channels, or where this info is fetched from elsewhere, I think it makes sense

MattJ: indeed you could use that for a moderated room with a large audience

I don't need to see 15k avatars, nor is that sane

Ge0rG: IIRC that's a poll thing

you could implement that today. only send the five moderators and self-presence

Yup

Zash: integrate delayed-presence-before-message with CSN tracking and you have still much live presence, but not as much

ib4 everyone's constantly spamming <active> and <inactive>

Zash: that would get filtered except for when you actually send a message to the room

or... a reaction or a marker.

Also, smart filtered broadcasting of such stuff would be so nice. Ala PEPs +notify but message payloads in MUC.

Zash: did you just invent MIX?

Ge0rG: All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again, and again, and again...