XSF Discussion - 2020-04-12


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  325. xcoder Hello!
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  327. xcoder Anyone here ?
  328. xcoder Why response in XML ?
  329. xcoder Why not JSON ?
  330. xcoder Is XML faster than JSON !
  331. eta xcoder: they're about equal!
  332. eta xcoder: read https://xmpp.org/about/myths.html
  333. xcoder Not equal !
  334. xcoder JSON is easy to read , delivered fast than xml.
  335. eta those are both subjective, arbitrary metrics
  336. j.r > JSON is easy to read Modern hypster webdev in a nutshell...
  337. eta j.r: quite :p
  338. xcoder Which one you would use in a project ?
  339. Zash > hypster Haha, amazing word
  340. xcoder 😛
  341. xcoder This is not my question btw.
  342. xcoder I asked why xmpp server using xml in response ?
  343. pep. Because that's how XMPP is specified?
  344. xcoder I trace the the response using console.
  345. j.r If you have a bit more complex (nested) stuff JSON becomes really bad to read in my eyes... but yeah it's subjective
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  347. eta xcoder: well XMPP is much older than modern JSON-using applications
  348. eta s/applications/protocols/
  349. eta it's also naturally extensible (via namespaces), which has allowed the protocol to adapt
  350. xcoder I read an article about xmpp, "Whatsapp using ir".
  351. xcoder Is that right ?
  352. eta (if you think JSON is also extensible, look at the tire fire that is JSON-LD)
  353. Zash WhatsApp is based on XMPP with a custom compression scheme.
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  355. Zash Zoom is also based on XMPP. And Google Talk, and LoL, and lots of things.
  356. eta (and Jitsi Meet)
  357. xcoder Also i see a request repeated after 10 s to get the updates, what makes it different form normal setInterval !
  358. pep. what?
  359. Zash Are you looking at the BOSH requests?
  360. xcoder Yes :V
  361. Zash It's using long-polling
  362. eta Zash: (does BOSH use lo---
  363. eta snap
  364. xcoder I know.
  365. xcoder Any communication application using long polling to get the updates the difference is the method.
  366. xcoder What i noticed , is there no lag.
  367. xcoder Normal SetInterval makes lag after some minutes of initialization.
  368. Zash Because the long-polling. The request isn't answererd until there's something new.
  369. Zash (or a timeout, in which case it does another request)
  370. pep. xcoder, pulling at predefined intervals wouldn't be able to get payloads faster or slower as necessary
  371. pep. xcoder, pulling at predefined intervals wouldn't allow to get payloads faster or slower as necessary
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  373. Zash It could also use websockets. Or plain TCP.
  374. xcoder Which is more preferable [sockets - setinterval]
  375. pep. setInterval has nothing to do with protocol, that's a JS function
  376. xcoder I'm a web developer.
  377. pep. Surely you could use that to implement some really bad long-polling
  378. Zash There was "normal" polling back one billion years ago, but I don't think anyting uses that anymore.
  379. xcoder Sockets can consume more memory ?
  380. xcoder I never tried sockets so i can't judge it.
  381. xcoder I'm asking if anyone has the experience.
  382. Zash BOSH consumes more bandwidth, since you can't idle for very long before doing another connection, also more overhead with HTTP headercs and stuff.
  383. Zash But BOSH is also more tolerant of network issues, IP address changes, or navigation to different web page.
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  385. Zash Desktop applications would use normal TCP sockets. Probably similar to websockets in overhead and stuff.
  386. xcoder So what's the recommended resources if i want to build large chat system [text - audio - video]
  387. Zash Hire a large team of experts.
  388. xcoder "Resources" not experts.
  389. Zash Human Resources :P
  390. xcoder I already developed many chat system, but not high traffic.
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  394. Guus Don't reinvent the wheel, use one of the many available implementations.
  395. Guus That saves you a lot of resources
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  397. xcoder I'm asking what is the "infrastructure" that whatsapp,imo,telegram are using.
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  399. Zash https://xmpp.org/uses/instant-messaging.html and https://xmpp.org/uses/webrtc.html of any use?
  400. pep. And don't forget to contribute back
  401. pep. And don't "forget" to contribute back
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  404. Zash IIRC whatsapp was using a heavily customised ejabberd in the beginning, no idea what they're doing now
  405. Guus xcoder: to get started, install one of the freely available xmpp servers, and a client of choice. If you're into web, start with a web client like Converse.
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  407. Guus If you are things in action, you can learn how to adapt things to your needs.
  408. Guus That gives you a pragmatic approach, that you can actually see do something.
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  410. xcoder Zash thanks for the link.
  411. xcoder Guus, Yes i will use one of these servers just a start.
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  413. vanitasvitae xcoder: if you think about implementing some feature, take a look at the wide range of existing protocol extensions before doing your own thing 😃
  414. xcoder Are you ios developer ?
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  416. vanitasvitae xcoder: luckily not :P
  417. xcoder 😒
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