XSF Discussion - 2020-04-22


  1. pdurbin has left
  2. serge90 has left
  3. serge90 has joined
  4. stpeter has joined
  5. stpeter has left
  6. serge90 has left
  7. serge90 has joined
  8. Neustradamus has left
  9. Neustradamus has joined
  10. debacle has left
  11. debacle has joined
  12. stpeter has joined
  13. stpeter has left
  14. serge90 has left
  15. serge90 has joined
  16. serge90 has left
  17. serge90 has joined
  18. serge90 has left
  19. serge90 has joined
  20. debacle has left
  21. alexis has left
  22. alexis has joined
  23. Shell has left
  24. stpeter has joined
  25. stpeter has left
  26. debacle has joined
  27. debacle has left
  28. debacle has joined
  29. mukt2 has left
  30. serge90 has left
  31. serge90 has joined
  32. serge90 has left
  33. serge90 has joined
  34. mukt2 has joined
  35. serge90 has left
  36. serge90 has joined
  37. serge90 has left
  38. serge90 has joined
  39. lskdjf has left
  40. stpeter has joined
  41. stpeter has left
  42. serge90 has left
  43. serge90 has joined
  44. serge90 has left
  45. serge90 has joined
  46. mukt2 has left
  47. mukt2 has joined
  48. serge90 has left
  49. serge90 has joined
  50. debacle has left
  51. karoshi has left
  52. serge90 has left
  53. serge90 has joined
  54. stpeter has joined
  55. stpeter has left
  56. mukt2 has left
  57. serge90 has left
  58. serge90 has joined
  59. pdurbin has joined
  60. serge90 has left
  61. serge90 has joined
  62. serge90 has left
  63. serge90 has joined
  64. Yagiza has joined
  65. mukt2 has joined
  66. serge90 has left
  67. serge90 has joined
  68. stpeter has joined
  69. stpeter has left
  70. serge90 has left
  71. serge90 has joined
  72. serge90 has left
  73. serge90 has joined
  74. DebXWoody has joined
  75. serge90 has left
  76. serge90 has joined
  77. andy has joined
  78. stpeter has joined
  79. stpeter has left
  80. bear has left
  81. serge90 has left
  82. serge90 has joined
  83. serge90 has left
  84. serge90 has joined
  85. serge90 has left
  86. serge90 has joined
  87. lovetox has left
  88. Tobias has joined
  89. serge90 has left
  90. serge90 has joined
  91. serge90 has left
  92. serge90 has joined
  93. stpeter has joined
  94. stpeter has left
  95. bear has joined
  96. serge90 has left
  97. serge90 has joined
  98. serge90 has left
  99. serge90 has joined
  100. Mikaela has joined
  101. serge90 has left
  102. serge90 has joined
  103. serge90 has left
  104. serge90 has joined
  105. bear has left
  106. Nekit has joined
  107. serge90 has left
  108. stpeter has joined
  109. stpeter has left
  110. serge90 has joined
  111. mukt2 has left
  112. serge90 has left
  113. lorddavidiii has joined
  114. serge90 has joined
  115. serge90 has left
  116. serge90 has joined
  117. lovetox has joined
  118. serge90 has left
  119. serge90 has joined
  120. paul has joined
  121. adiaholic_ has left
  122. mukt2 has joined
  123. lovetox has left
  124. serge90 has left
  125. alexis has left
  126. serge90 has joined
  127. wurstsalat has joined
  128. serge90 has left
  129. serge90 has joined
  130. stpeter has joined
  131. stpeter has left
  132. Jeybe has joined
  133. alexis has joined
  134. bear has joined
  135. serge90 has left
  136. jubalh has joined
  137. serge90 has joined
  138. LNJ has left
  139. LNJ has joined
  140. waqas has left
  141. waqas has joined
  142. adiaholic_ has joined
  143. waqas has left
  144. waqas has joined
  145. bear has left
  146. waqas has left
  147. waqas has joined
  148. jubalh has left
  149. waqas has left
  150. waqas has joined
  151. adiaholic_ has left
  152. adiaholic_ has joined
  153. serge90 has left
  154. serge90 has joined
  155. waqas has left
  156. waqas has joined
  157. Guus has left
  158. stpeter has joined
  159. stpeter has left
  160. emus has joined
  161. serge90 has left
  162. serge90 has joined
  163. xecks has joined
  164. waqas has left
  165. waqas has joined
  166. serge90 has left
  167. serge90 has joined
  168. serge90 has left
  169. marc has left
  170. serge90 has joined
  171. waqas has left
  172. waqas has joined
  173. serge90 has left
  174. serge90 has joined
  175. waqas has left
  176. waqas has joined
  177. waqas has left
  178. marc has joined
  179. bear has joined
  180. stpeter has joined
  181. stpeter has left
  182. serge90 has left
  183. serge90 has joined
  184. Nekit has left
  185. Nekit has joined
  186. serge90 has left
  187. serge90 has joined
  188. Guus has joined
  189. serge90 has left
  190. serge90 has joined
  191. adiaholic_ has left
  192. bear has left
  193. serge90 has left
  194. serge90 has joined
  195. adiaholic_ has joined
  196. karoshi has joined
  197. serge90 has left
  198. serge90 has joined
  199. serge90 has left
  200. serge90 has joined
  201. mukt2 has left
  202. mukt2 has joined
  203. serge90 has left
  204. Dele Olajide has joined
  205. serge90 has joined
  206. serge90 has left
  207. serge90 has joined
  208. APach has left
  209. APach has joined
  210. serge90 has left
  211. serge90 has joined
  212. eevvoor has joined
  213. stpeter has joined
  214. stpeter has left
  215. serge90 has left
  216. serge90 has joined
  217. bear has joined
  218. serge90 has left
  219. serge90 has joined
  220. mukt2 has left
  221. mukt2 has joined
  222. serge90 has left
  223. serge90 has joined
  224. serge90 has left
  225. serge90 has joined
  226. Neustradamus has left
  227. Neustradamus has joined
  228. bear has left
  229. serge90 has left
  230. serge90 has joined
  231. j.r has left
  232. j.r has joined
  233. serge90 has left
  234. serge90 has joined
  235. stpeter has joined
  236. stpeter has left
  237. Nekit has left
  238. Nekit has joined
  239. eta has left
  240. eta has joined
  241. j.r has left
  242. adiaholic_ has left
  243. adiaholic_ has joined
  244. robertooo has joined
  245. Link Mauve has left
  246. serge90 has left
  247. serge90 has joined
  248. j.r has joined
  249. serge90 has left
  250. serge90 has joined
  251. serge90 has left
  252. serge90 has joined
  253. serge90 has left
  254. serge90 has joined
  255. bear has joined
  256. mukt2 has left
  257. serge90 has left
  258. serge90 has joined
  259. debacle has joined
  260. mukt2 has joined
  261. j.r has left
  262. j.r has joined
  263. goffi has joined
  264. serge90 has left
  265. serge90 has joined
  266. Link Mauve has joined
  267. stpeter has joined
  268. stpeter has left
  269. serge90 has left
  270. serge90 has joined
  271. serge90 has left
  272. mukt2 has left
  273. serge90 has joined
  274. marc has left
  275. bear has left
  276. mukt2 has joined
  277. marc has joined
  278. serge90 has left
  279. lovetox has joined
  280. serge90 has joined
  281. mukt2 has left
  282. serge90 has left
  283. serge90 has joined
  284. mukt2 has joined
  285. lskdjf has joined
  286. stpeter has joined
  287. stpeter has left
  288. serge90 has left
  289. serge90 has joined
  290. mukt2 has left
  291. Zash MattJ: Let's replace XEP-0004 with https://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/
  292. Zash (I've yet to read all that so not sure if that should be /s or serious)
  293. pep. seems like the w3c is not doing simple specs ever (is it?)
  294. serge90 has left
  295. serge90 has joined
  296. adiaholic_ has left
  297. adiaholic_ has joined
  298. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0004.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0068.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0122.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0141.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0221.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0315.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0331.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0336.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0350.html
  299. Zash pep., I'd say we're doing allright
  300. pep. over almost 450 specs, I'm sure we can do better :p
  301. Zash So, those were all the XEPs I could find with "data forms" in the title.
  302. serge90 has left
  303. serge90 has joined
  304. adiaholic_ has left
  305. adiaholic_ has joined
  306. bear has joined
  307. mukt2 has joined
  308. serge90 has left
  309. serge90 has joined
  310. serge90 has left
  311. serge90 has joined
  312. serge90 has left
  313. serge90 has joined
  314. stpeter has joined
  315. stpeter has left
  316. !XSF_Martin has left
  317. !XSF_Martin has joined
  318. bear has left
  319. serge90 has left
  320. pep. I like how they have a section on how to read the document
  321. adiaholic_ has left
  322. serge90 has joined
  323. serge90 has left
  324. serge90 has joined
  325. serge90 has left
  326. serge90 has joined
  327. edhelas in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0115.html#ver-gen-simple in the example I see "S = 'client/pc//Exodus 0.9.1<'"
  328. serge90 has left
  329. edhelas i think that // should be / there, no ?
  330. serge90 has joined
  331. Zash Why?
  332. Zash Per https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0115.html#ver-gen > formatted as CATEGORY '/' [TYPE] '/' [LANG] '/' [NAME].
  333. Zash LANG is empty string in that example
  334. Zash Hm
  335. Link Mauve Type can be optional?
  336. Zash Do things do the thing with xml:lang being inherited when doing this thing?
  337. Link Mauve I certainly hope so.
  338. lovetox has left
  339. serge90 has left
  340. serge90 has joined
  341. serge90 has left
  342. serge90 has joined
  343. Neustradamus has left
  344. Neustradamus has joined
  345. Zash Link Mauve, prepare to be dissapointed
  346. serge90 has left
  347. serge90 has joined
  348. stpeter has joined
  349. stpeter has left
  350. Zash Would have been nice to separate the strings from the protocol advertising bits
  351. adiaholic_ has joined
  352. serge90 has left
  353. flow at least xep390 explicitly mentions this
  354. serge90 has joined
  355. bear has joined
  356. adiaholic_ has left
  357. serge90 has left
  358. serge90 has joined
  359. adiaholic_ has joined
  360. serge90 has left
  361. serge90 has joined
  362. Link Mauve Meh, it’s only a SHOULD in the RFC…
  363. Zash Isn't that defined by XML itself?
  364. Link Mauve If the initiating entity included the 'xml:lang' attribute in its initial stream header, the receiving entity SHOULD remember that value as the default xml:lang for all stanzas sent by the initiating entity over the current stream.
  365. Link Mauve Section 4.7.4.
  366. Link Mauve Zash, I meant adding the c2s stream’s @xml:lang to c2s stanzas.
  367. serge90 has left
  368. serge90 has joined
  369. Zash Link Mauve: I meant having it added to the entire element tree, ie like xmlns.
  370. Zash Otherwise if you take out the <{disco#info}query> tag out of the <iq xml:lang="??"> you wouldn't know what lang it has
  371. pep. flow: while the PR isn't harmful, technically @xml:lang on the iq should equal the root's if it hasn't been redefined :x
  372. serge90 has left
  373. adiaholic_ has left
  374. adiaholic_ has joined
  375. serge90 has joined
  376. jonas’ "apply the XML rules"
  377. bear has left
  378. Zash jonas’: Why? Why isn't the XML parser library doing that? :(
  379. jonas’ good question
  380. jonas’ then again, there are still XML parsers which not only expose serialisation details like namespace prefixes, but require you to do the reverse mapping yourself
  381. flow pep., true, but one could say the same for disco#info
  382. pep. hmm?
  383. flow well you argue that iq inherits from stream, but disco#info also inherits from iq
  384. Zash at least libexpat deals with namespaces, but afaik prefixes are lost in translation
  385. flow so we either say "beware that xml:lang is inherited", or explicitly mention all three sources of inheritance (instead of just two)
  386. serge90 has left
  387. Zash Or yeeeeet that and all human-readable strings out of the caps hash
  388. serge90 has joined
  389. pep. ah I see. yeah I guess mentioning inheritance is more correct but that's nit
  390. adiaholic_ has left
  391. adiaholic_ has joined
  392. jonas’ Zash, having the human-readable strings in the hash saves a round-trip though when you want to display that info
  393. jonas’ also lends its way to spoofing
  394. Zash Would it be too painful to have separate hashes?
  395. jonas’ yes
  396. Zash :(
  397. jonas’ though, maybe not
  398. stpeter has joined
  399. stpeter has left
  400. jonas’ the idea to have separate hashes for identities / features / forms isn’t new
  401. jonas’ and I’m still pondering whether that’s a thing we might want
  402. jonas’ increases implementation complexity though
  403. Zash For the pure protocol bits it seems it could increase cache hit rate
  404. Zash (does jid x support feature y-kinda things)
  405. jonas’ indeed
  406. jonas’ and <identity/> is rarely needed for that kind of thing
  407. jonas’ another motivation for this is that forms may contain rapidly changing or high-cardinality data (see muc participant count)
  408. flow jonas’, implemntations could simply hash the multiple hashes if they don't want additional complexity
  409. jonas’ flow, !
  410. serge90 has left
  411. serge90 has joined
  412. jonas’ good idea to write down that concatenated hashes can be used if you don’t want to treat the split data
  413. Zash Truncated hashes is another way to reduce the size of the caps blob
  414. flow jonas’, implementations could simply hash the multiple hashes if they don't want additional complexity
  415. jonas’ Zash, didn’t you link a thing the other day which specified some way to refer to some hash functions including stuff like truncation and other parameters?
  416. Zash Not sure
  417. krauq has left
  418. mukt2 has left
  419. mukt2 has joined
  420. serge90 has left
  421. xsf has left
  422. serge90 has joined
  423. xsf has joined
  424. krauq has joined
  425. adiaholic_ has left
  426. adiaholic_ has joined
  427. contrapunctus has left
  428. goffi has left
  429. govanify has left
  430. eevvoor has left
  431. sonny has left
  432. xecks has left
  433. xecks has joined
  434. serge90 has left
  435. serge90 has joined
  436. serge90 has left
  437. serge90 has joined
  438. xsf has left
  439. xsf has joined
  440. adiaholic_ has left
  441. adiaholic_ has joined
  442. serge90 has left
  443. serge90 has joined
  444. stpeter has joined
  445. stpeter has left
  446. serge90 has left
  447. serge90 has joined
  448. bear has joined
  449. serge90 has left
  450. serge90 has joined
  451. pdurbin has left
  452. Nekit has left
  453. Nekit has joined
  454. serge90 has left
  455. xsf has left
  456. bear has left
  457. Neustradamus has left
  458. Neustradamus has joined
  459. jubalh has joined
  460. stpeter has joined
  461. stpeter has left
  462. jubalh has left
  463. Shell has joined
  464. adiaholic_ has left
  465. adiaholic_ has joined
  466. rion has left
  467. rion has joined
  468. stpeter has joined
  469. stpeter has left
  470. bear has joined
  471. bear has left
  472. adiaholic_ has left
  473. adiaholic_ has joined
  474. DebXWoody has left
  475. lovetox has joined
  476. DebXWoody has joined
  477. stpeter has joined
  478. stpeter has left
  479. Neustradamus has left
  480. Neustradamus has joined
  481. adiaholic_ has left
  482. adiaholic_ has joined
  483. Shell has left
  484. mukt2 has left
  485. pdurbin has joined
  486. stpeter has joined
  487. stpeter has left
  488. bear has joined
  489. Max has left
  490. Max has joined
  491. pdurbin has left
  492. bear has left
  493. Jeybe has left
  494. edhelas has left
  495. mukt2 has joined
  496. edhelas has joined
  497. Max has left
  498. Max has joined
  499. mukt2 has left
  500. krauq has left
  501. Max has left
  502. Nekit has left
  503. Nekit has joined
  504. lovetox has left
  505. xecks has left
  506. xecks has joined
  507. krauq has joined
  508. stpeter has joined
  509. stpeter has left
  510. mukt2 has joined
  511. DebXWoody has left
  512. mukt2 has left
  513. mukt2 has joined
  514. bear has joined
  515. Max has joined
  516. Jeybe has joined
  517. mukt2 has left
  518. j.r has left
  519. Max has left
  520. jubalh has joined
  521. bear has left
  522. Jeybe has left
  523. Jeybe has joined
  524. Ge0rG has left
  525. Ge0rG has joined
  526. pdurbin has joined
  527. Wojtek has joined
  528. bear has joined
  529. mukt2 has joined
  530. jonas’ should we maybe robots.txt-deny the attic?
  531. alexis has left
  532. MattJ Sounds sensible, yes
  533. jonas’ or at least have a fat warning on every thing there that it’s old
  534. MattJ I was thinking of other far higher effort solutions
  535. MattJ (that)
  536. jonas’ since when is sed high effort?
  537. MattJ "Hey jonas’, ..."
  538. jonas’ I wrote an XMPP client within a day in sed, it can’t be that bad.
  539. jonas’ but yeah, first robots.txt, we can alleviate that at a later point when we get around to do a sed hack
  540. mukt2 has left
  541. Zash Comic Sans?
  542. jonas’ haha, good idea
  543. jubalh has left
  544. DebXWoody has joined
  545. bear has left
  546. pdurbin has left
  547. Ge0rG render the whole XEP in CS? cool!
  548. mukt2 has joined
  549. bear has joined
  550. mukt2 has left
  551. mukt2 has joined
  552. waqas has joined
  553. Daniel has left
  554. Daniel has joined
  555. Daniel has left
  556. Daniel has joined
  557. Dele Olajide has left
  558. Daniel has left
  559. Daniel has joined
  560. Daniel has left
  561. Daniel has joined
  562. Daniel has left
  563. Daniel has joined
  564. lorddavidiii has left
  565. andrey.g has left
  566. kevin has joined
  567. mimi89999 has left
  568. mimi89999 has joined
  569. mimi89999 has left
  570. mimi89999 has joined
  571. mukt2 has left
  572. mukt2 has joined
  573. jubalh has joined
  574. j.r has joined
  575. Max has joined
  576. mukt2 has left
  577. mukt2 has joined
  578. !XSF_Martin has left
  579. !XSF_Martin has joined
  580. Max has left
  581. Max has joined
  582. jubalh has left
  583. kevin has left
  584. j.r has left
  585. j.r has joined
  586. !XSF_Martin has left
  587. !XSF_Martin has joined
  588. jubalh has joined
  589. pdurbin has joined
  590. pdurbin has left
  591. Shell has joined
  592. jubalh has left
  593. Yagiza has left
  594. mukt2 has left
  595. Mikaela has left
  596. Mikaela has joined
  597. Daniel has left
  598. Daniel has joined
  599. mukt2 has joined
  600. vanitasvitae has left
  601. vanitasvitae has joined
  602. jubalh has joined
  603. adiaholic_ has left
  604. adiaholic_ has joined
  605. j.r has left
  606. j.r has joined
  607. jubalh has left
  608. jubalh has joined
  609. krauq has left
  610. krauq has joined
  611. debacle has left
  612. debacle has joined
  613. lovetox has joined
  614. lovetox has left
  615. flow does *anything* use xep4 <reported/> somewhere?
  616. flow the only other occurence of <reported/> in the xeps repo is xep390
  617. flow the only other occurence of <reported/> in the xeps repo, which I found, is xep390
  618. j.r has left
  619. j.r has joined
  620. krauq has left
  621. LNJ has left
  622. LNJ has joined
  623. krauq has joined
  624. j.r has left
  625. j.r has joined
  626. pdurbin has joined
  627. APach has left
  628. APach has joined
  629. pdurbin has left
  630. robertooo has left
  631. Zash flow: not aware of anything,
  632. xecks has left
  633. xecks has joined
  634. andrey.g has joined
  635. Maranda has left
  636. Maranda has joined
  637. Jeybe has left
  638. Jeybe has joined
  639. Zash has left
  640. Zash has joined
  641. Zash has left
  642. Zash has joined
  643. mukt2 has left
  644. Mikaela has left
  645. DebXWoody has left
  646. LNJ has left
  647. jubalh has left
  648. LNJ has joined
  649. Jeybe has left
  650. Jeybe has joined
  651. mukt2 has joined
  652. Tobias has left
  653. Shell has left
  654. gav has joined
  655. lovetox has joined
  656. bear has left
  657. alexis has joined
  658. Shell has joined
  659. j.r has left
  660. j.r has joined
  661. gav has left
  662. gav has joined
  663. arc has joined
  664. Jeybe has left
  665. Jeybe has joined
  666. Daniel has left
  667. Daniel has joined
  668. gav has left
  669. pdurbin has joined
  670. bear has joined
  671. Daniel has left
  672. mukt2 has left
  673. mukt2 has joined
  674. Jeybe has left
  675. Daniel has joined
  676. pdurbin has left
  677. Dele Olajide has joined
  678. Dele Olajide has left
  679. wurstsalat has left
  680. bear has left
  681. bear has joined
  682. jubalh has joined
  683. xsf has joined
  684. Daniel has left
  685. Daniel has joined
  686. eta has left
  687. eta has joined
  688. gav has joined
  689. arc has left
  690. arc has joined
  691. mimi89999 has left
  692. mimi89999 has joined
  693. emus has left
  694. emus has joined
  695. andy has left
  696. Wojtek has left
  697. Daniel has left
  698. Nekit has left
  699. Daniel has joined
  700. jubalh has left
  701. paul has left
  702. Maranda has left
  703. Maranda has joined
  704. debacle has left
  705. Luciole has joined
  706. Luciole has left
  707. debacle has joined
  708. Luciole has joined
  709. Shell has left
  710. debacle has left
  711. debacle has joined
  712. debacle has left
  713. debacle has joined
  714. pdurbin has joined
  715. bear has left
  716. mukt2 has left
  717. j.r has left
  718. mukt2 has joined
  719. Daniel has left
  720. debacle has left
  721. Daniel has joined
  722. debacle has joined