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Zash
MattJ: Let's replace XEP-0004 with https://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/
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Zash
(I've yet to read all that so not sure if that should be /s or serious)
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pep.
seems like the w3c is not doing simple specs ever (is it?)
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Zash
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0004.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0068.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0122.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0141.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0221.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0315.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0331.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0336.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0350.html
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Zash
pep., I'd say we're doing allright
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pep.
over almost 450 specs, I'm sure we can do better :p
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Zash
So, those were all the XEPs I could find with "data forms" in the title.
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pep.
I like how they have a section on how to read the document
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edhelas
in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0115.html#ver-gen-simple in the example I see "S = 'client/pc//Exodus 0.9.1<'"
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edhelas
i think that // should be / there, no ?
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Zash
Why?
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Zash
Per https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0115.html#ver-gen > formatted as CATEGORY '/' [TYPE] '/' [LANG] '/' [NAME].
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Zash
LANG is empty string in that example
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Zash
Hm
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Link Mauve
Type can be optional?
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Zash
Do things do the thing with xml:lang being inherited when doing this thing?
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Link Mauve
I certainly hope so.
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Zash
Link Mauve, prepare to be dissapointed
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Zash
Would have been nice to separate the strings from the protocol advertising bits
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flow
at least xep390 explicitly mentions this
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Link Mauve
Meh, it’s only a SHOULD in the RFC…
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Zash
Isn't that defined by XML itself?
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Link Mauve
If the initiating entity included the 'xml:lang' attribute in its initial stream header, the receiving entity SHOULD remember that value as the default xml:lang for all stanzas sent by the initiating entity over the current stream.
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Link Mauve
Section 4.7.4.
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Link Mauve
Zash, I meant adding the c2s stream’s @xml:lang to c2s stanzas.
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Zash
Link Mauve: I meant having it added to the entire element tree, ie like xmlns.
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Zash
Otherwise if you take out the <{disco#info}query> tag out of the <iq xml:lang="??"> you wouldn't know what lang it has
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pep.
flow: while the PR isn't harmful, technically @xml:lang on the iq should equal the root's if it hasn't been redefined :x
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jonas’
"apply the XML rules"
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Zash
jonas’: Why? Why isn't the XML parser library doing that? :(
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jonas’
good question
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jonas’
then again, there are still XML parsers which not only expose serialisation details like namespace prefixes, but require you to do the reverse mapping yourself
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flow
pep., true, but one could say the same for disco#info
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pep.
hmm?
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flow
well you argue that iq inherits from stream, but disco#info also inherits from iq
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Zash
at least libexpat deals with namespaces, but afaik prefixes are lost in translation
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flow
so we either say "beware that xml:lang is inherited", or explicitly mention all three sources of inheritance (instead of just two)
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Zash
Or yeeeeet that and all human-readable strings out of the caps hash
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pep.
ah I see. yeah I guess mentioning inheritance is more correct but that's nit
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jonas’
Zash, having the human-readable strings in the hash saves a round-trip though when you want to display that info
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jonas’
also lends its way to spoofing
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Zash
Would it be too painful to have separate hashes?
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jonas’
yes
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Zash
:(
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jonas’
though, maybe not
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jonas’
the idea to have separate hashes for identities / features / forms isn’t new
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jonas’
and I’m still pondering whether that’s a thing we might want
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jonas’
increases implementation complexity though
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Zash
For the pure protocol bits it seems it could increase cache hit rate
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Zash
(does jid x support feature y-kinda things)
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jonas’
indeed
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jonas’
and <identity/> is rarely needed for that kind of thing
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jonas’
another motivation for this is that forms may contain rapidly changing or high-cardinality data (see muc participant count)
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flow
jonas’, implemntations could simply hash the multiple hashes if they don't want additional complexity✎ -
jonas’
flow, !
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jonas’
good idea to write down that concatenated hashes can be used if you don’t want to treat the split data
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Zash
Truncated hashes is another way to reduce the size of the caps blob
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flow
jonas’, implementations could simply hash the multiple hashes if they don't want additional complexity ✏
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jonas’
Zash, didn’t you link a thing the other day which specified some way to refer to some hash functions including stuff like truncation and other parameters?
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Zash
Not sure
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jonas’
should we maybe robots.txt-deny the attic?
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MattJ
Sounds sensible, yes
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jonas’
or at least have a fat warning on every thing there that it’s old
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MattJ
I was thinking of other far higher effort solutions
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MattJ
(that)
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jonas’
since when is sed high effort?
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MattJ
"Hey jonas’, ..."
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jonas’
I wrote an XMPP client within a day in sed, it can’t be that bad.
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jonas’
but yeah, first robots.txt, we can alleviate that at a later point when we get around to do a sed hack
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Zash
Comic Sans?
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jonas’
haha, good idea
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Ge0rG
render the whole XEP in CS? cool!
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flow
does *anything* use xep4 <reported/> somewhere?
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flow
the only other occurence of <reported/> in the xeps repo is xep390✎ -
flow
the only other occurence of <reported/> in the xeps repo, which I found, is xep390 ✏
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Zash
flow: not aware of anything,