XSF Discussion - 2020-04-23


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  145. jonas’ flow, xep-0055
  146. jonas’ you need to grep for `<reported>`, not `<reported/>`.
  147. jonas’ It is never going to be empty
  148. flow jonas’, IIRC is used 'lt;reported'
  149. jonas’ yeah, well
  150. jonas’ of course with escaping ;)
  151. jonas’ ohh, yeah, the code examples would not be escaped because of <[![CDATA sections
  152. flow rg -l 'lt;reported' |sort
  153. jonas’ so you actually have to grep for literal <reported
  154. flow rg -l '(lt;|<)reported' |sort
  155. flow uhh a multi-user_gaming protoxep in the inbox appears
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  162. Maranda Ohhhhh which one is it 🐈🐈🐈
  163. Maranda curious
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  171. marc 0ad uses XMPP AFAIK
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  173. Link Mauve Yup, it does, for its lobby.
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  201. pep. is there a place / would it make sense to advertise a status URI somewhere via XMPP? something something 0157? that a client could cache maybe? even it that will obviously be advertised oob as well
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  203. pep. is there a place / would it make sense to advertise a status URI somewhere via XMPP? something something 0157? that a client could cache maybe? even if that will obviously be advertised oob as well
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  206. Link Mauve pep., you mean so that someone who can’t connect to jabber.fr atm can get their client to say “Hey, have a look at https://status.jabberfr.org maybe something is going on!”?
  207. MattJ pep., oh, are you XEPping this?
  208. pep. I'm not I'm curiouw
  209. pep. I'm not I'm curious
  210. MattJ :(
  211. MattJ It's been on my todo for too long
  212. pep. baby steps
  213. pep. Link Mauve: that
  214. Link Mauve pep., please do~
  215. pep. go add that to xep ideas and drops it
  216. pep. goes add that to xep ideas and drops it
  217. MattJ pep., https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-December/035514.html
  218. pep. good
  219. pep. sharing your to-do is always a first step :)
  220. MattJ I think there would be some value in having it separate if you can also add a 'type', e.g. if the client could automatically fetch and display items from an Atom feed (or I'm guessing there are standards for exactly this purpose)
  221. Zash `_status.jabberfr.org IN URI "https://statut.jabberfr.org/"`
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  223. MattJ That would be nice indeed!
  224. Zash There, you don't even need the server up, just DNS. Problem solved.
  225. pep. right, probably better via DNS
  226. pep. if DNS is dead you probably can't access the server already anyway, the opposite is not necessarily true
  227. MattJ I really like the potential for clients to automatically show this to the user when a working account suddenly has connection problems
  228. pep. yep
  229. Zash and if DNS is dead you probably can't access https://statut.jabberfr.org/ either
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  231. jonas’ Zash, _status._5222._tcp.jabberfr.org
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  234. jonas’ is a URI record a thing?
  235. jonas’ apparently yes
  236. Zash goes to look up the actual syntax in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7553
  237. Zash Ah, priority and weight.
  238. Link Mauve For our usecase, DNS would be inconvenient because we don’t control the domain of all of our users.
  239. jonas’ your users do, though
  240. jonas’ they could CNAME to your _status recrod
  241. Link Mauve We could do it for our own domains, but this would be something the hosted users would have to figure out by themselves.
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  244. Zash Hm, you could add SRV records pointing at something that just responds with a `<stream:error><system-shutdown/><text>Service down because reasons.<////>`
  245. jonas’ that’d be fun
  246. Zash Hm
  247. Zash And `<see-other-host/>` if it's back up?
  248. pep. next up: deploy a centralised service doing so and getting everyone's data!!
  249. jonas’ pep., you laugh...
  250. jonas’ I have something in the pipeline
  251. pep. next up: deploy a centralised service doing so and get everyone's data!!
  252. pep. :(
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  255. pep. So this is not really an XMPP thing right
  256. jonas’ yeah
  257. jonas’ I asked in #powerdns if they know something about a thing which exists in dNS
  258. jonas’ but apparently there is not
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  260. pep. hmm, I'm curious how many dns providers allow using this type..
  261. pep. It's already great when they think about SRV and they don't butcher the necessary fields
  262. Zash I saw something (also in #powerdns) about AT&T still not supporting SRV
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  264. pep. AT&T as in, not their ISP service?
  265. Zash I understood it as in the ISP
  266. pep. Why would an ISP need support for this
  267. Zash https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/g636ql/psa_its_2020_and_att_still_provides_dns_servers/
  268. pep. ugh
  269. Zash Because ISPs usually provide DNS resolvers to their customers?
  270. Zash ... but DNS-over-HTTPS is here to save the day!
  271. Zash /s
  272. pep. :(
  273. pep. > What are you going to do, switch providers? laughs in government protected monopoly
  274. pep. When do we start the revolution.
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  276. MattJ It happened. You missed it. This is the result!
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  279. jonas’ clownflare?
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  284. pep. https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP_ideas/Server_status_page ?
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  309. MattJ XEP-0045 is a long document. If <{muc#user}x><item/></x> is missing an 'affiliation' attribute, does it default to 'none'?
  310. MattJ The schema says 'affiliation' is optional
  311. MattJ I think it may be illegal
  312. flow and the schema being wrong?
  313. MattJ Possibly. Not confident enough to say yes :)
  314. flow It does not sound unrealistic that the affiliation is 'none' if not explicitly otherwise announced
  315. Zash Alternatively, maybe the service doesn't want you to know the affiliation?
  316. flow is affiliation hiding a thing in xep45?
  317. MattJ I agree. There is text that says you MUST send a presence «containing an <item/> child with the 'role' attribute set to a value of "moderator", "participant", or "visitor", and with the 'affiliation' attribute set to a value of "owner", "admin", "member", or "none" as appropriate.»
  318. Zash flow, not sure, probably not.
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  342. pep. !
  343. pep. MattJ, ralphm, Seve
  344. Seve Helloo
  345. pep. Let's wait some more
  346. pep. hmm.
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  348. Seve :)
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  351. Seve Guus sent apologies, though
  352. Seve (I see you didn't mention him)
  353. pep. He did, we could still be 4 though
  354. pep. Yeah I didn't because of his mail
  355. pep. Ok well.. let's cancel today..
  356. Seve Indeed
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  358. Ge0rG can't we just cancel the whole year?
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  360. MattJ Hey, sorry, here now
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  362. pep. MattJ, !
  363. pep. Not like there are many things to discuss about, but..
  364. MattJ I'm ok with cancelling though, unless we have something that needs discussing
  365. pep. I'm personally kinda blocking on ralph and his marketing lead, even though I'm also looking on my end, but I did get strong hints that people preferred not bothering with money if it's not necessary, so I don't really want to waste other people's times promising things that are not coming
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  379. Guus Apologies for the last-minute cancellation. Crazy times at work.
  380. Guus Apologies for the last-minute cancellation. Crazy times ~at work~.
  381. Guus (or what's the strikethrough markup?)
  382. pep. It doesn't exist in xhtml-im
  383. SamWhited Guus: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0393.html#strike
  384. SamWhited (so what you just did)
  385. Guus \o/
  386. Guus I take that as a win. How are things, Sam? It's been a while.
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  388. SamWhited Guus: same as ever; trying to find a job that will let me be involved in non-profits and standards orgs and what not again. How are things on your side of the pond?
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  390. Guus as stated: crazy.
  391. SamWhited *nods* I know that feeling.
  392. Guus There's only so much homeschooling that noise cancellation headphones can cancel 😉
  393. SamWhited Oh yah, I can imagine.
  394. Guus We're doing well - healthy too. Takes a bit of a toll, but we're probably least worst off, as compared to most.
  395. SamWhited Same here; as much as I complain about my job and working from home, I still have one and have a home to work from so I can't complain too much.
  396. Guus count your blessings, right?
  397. SamWhited Indeed
  398. Guus good to hear you're doing ok
  399. SamWhited yah you too, stay healthy!
  400. Guus likewise.
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  462. amuza Hello
  463. amuza I have some basic questions about XMPP
  464. Zash Shoot
  465. amuza I don't know if this is the right forum...
  466. amuza 1. Can a user create a multi user chat?
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  468. amuza Or is it something that needs to be created by the server administrator?
  469. Zash Usually this can be configured in the server.
  470. amuza Do you mean chat rooms are configured in the server or do you mean you can configure the server so that users can create chat rooms?
  471. Zash I mean the admin can configure in their server whether to restrict room creation to admins or local users or allow anyone on any server.
  472. Ge0rG There are many public servers that allow everyone to create rooms
  473. amuza Good, thanks, now I understand.
  474. amuza Didn't know.
  475. amuza So, if I have an account on one of those servers, will I easily find on my client (Gajim, Conversations, whatever) how to create a room?
  476. mathieui You don’t need to have an account on the server that hosts the chatrooms, and you only have to join a room in most clients to have it created
  477. mathieui some clients separate both actions, which is a good thing imo (while it is the same protocol-wise)
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  479. Ge0rG If you want to create a private room for you and your friends only, conversations is probably the best tool right now
  480. amuza Cool
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  486. amuza So, if a user wants to create a private room for she and her friends, she needs to have her account in one of those MUC-enabled servers, doesn't she?
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  491. amuza Forget my last question, I'm rereading your answers, and got it clear now : o
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  495. amuza Is OMEMO a client software that works regardless of the XMPP server? (kind of GPG and email servers)
  496. amuza Or does the server requires something so that OMEMO works properly?
  497. Zash The server needs to support "PEP"
  498. moparisthebest and not explicitly block omemo like some ejabberd versions
  499. amuza Cool. I'm seeing it now in an XMPP server list, this PEP thing is listed there.
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  502. amuza Ooh, it is blocked by a server software, why?
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  504. amuza I understand OMEMO makes thing easier than OTR when you have several devices, but does OMEMO support multi-user chat?
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  506. pep. easier I don't know, but it makes them possible. Or it did, at the time
  507. pep. And yes OMEMO supports multi-user chat
  508. amuza Thank you!
  509. moparisthebest if I recall correctly the reasoning was something like "omemo causes support headaches for server operators so our config will block it by default"
  510. moparisthebest hopefully there aren't anymore of those left in the wild, it was pretty stupid
  511. pep. moparisthebest, we all have different stories, maybe that was justified for them :)
  512. amuza Anyway, it is weird if the rest of the servers can handle it...
  513. moparisthebest *in my opinion :)
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  515. pep. hasn't that been changed ages ago already though?
  516. moparisthebest yes
  517. pep. ok
  518. amuza This was definitely the right forum, very accurate answers by lots of people.
  519. amuza I am chatting through a webpage
  520. amuza Can I join the chat from my XMPP client?
  521. amuza What's the address?
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  526. pep. xmpp:xsf@muc.xmpp.org?join
  527. pep. Your browser might not understand this though.. the room address is just xsf@muc.xmpp.org
  528. amuza Yeap, thanks! That's simpler now.
  529. amuza Thank you all very much!
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  594. Neustradamus A good news: https://twitter.com/neustradamus/status/1253425669687488512
  595. pep. wat
  596. pep. Is sourceforge even still alive
  597. eevvoor yes :D
  598. moparisthebest ha that's an awesome delay
  599. Zash Changed owners a bunch of times
  600. moparisthebest they were just going through their tweets from 2 years ago or?
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  605. Neustradamus I have done several reminders (same owner) and recently on the website.
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  608. moparisthebest nice work Neustradamus !
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  610. Neustradamus Thanks moparisthebest :)
  611. eevvoor Neustradamus, what does your tweet mean, that > We can say that #SourceForge now knows @xmpp/#XMPP
  612. eevvoor pep. my favourit ekodi distro, xbian, is also on sourceforge. That was when I lealized that sourceforge ist still around.
  613. Neustradamus I have requested an important change: https://sourceforge.net/directory/communications/chat/jabber
  614. eevvoor pep. my favourite kodi distro, xbian, is also on sourceforge. That was when I lealized that sourceforge ist still around.
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  616. eevvoor Neustradamus, oh this is really cool
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  628. Ge0rG Sourceforge has completely lost their credibility at the moment when they started injecting malware into project downloads
  629. pep. Microsoft doing it in 1, 2..
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  631. Maranda pep. ...?
  632. pep. GitHub
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  635. Maranda pep., the most Microsoft could do is closing it down
  636. pep. I doubt that is all they can do
  637. Maranda injecting trojans is not their usual pattern ;P
  638. Zash More likely that they'll integrate it reall well with Visual Studio and Azure.
  639. Maranda Zash, yes or if they find it useless either absorb it into something else and then do what they did to codeplex
  640. Maranda That's Microsoft pattern.
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  643. Ge0rG Zash: with office!
  644. Wojtek @Maranda that seems more like Google pattern...
  645. Neustradamus Ge0rG: it was a previous owner...
  646. Maranda Wojtek, google learned their agenda from someone :P
  647. mukt2 has joined
  648. Maranda who was there before them, but then MS improved on behaviour, while Google is just getting worser and worser.
  649. Wojtek ...and then surpassed the masster, buy also launching gazzilion of new services just to close them shortly after :D
  650. Wojtek well, MS lost a bit of market share, Google gain a bit so the roles reversed I guess
  651. alexis has joined
  652. Maranda Microsoft is quickly regaining on what they lost tbh in the latest years.
  653. Ge0rG Maranda [23:23]: > pep., the most Microsoft could do is closing it down That's the most Google thing. Microsoft would integrate AD, Office and finally replace git with the visual studio sync protocol
  654. Zash Team Foundation Hub?
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  657. Maranda Ge0rG, if they deem it profitable, if they don't they just go for the retire and close and boom.
  658. Zash Seems unlikely.
  659. Maranda Zash, I could make a list of things where they just did it that way, but I don't think I need to.
  660. Maranda For now the only thing that annoys me of M$ is the last version of WAC because since the dashboard scripts will check for Win32_BaseBoard.product it'll break mercilessly on all systems with older SMBIOS 🤦‍♂️
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  667. pep. Lucky you. If only there was one annoying thing MS did :)
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  676. Maranda pep.: well windows is lately, susprisingly, less and less annoying tasks wise. I statistically cuss more when I have to deal with *nix
  677. Maranda So as long as this trend is mantained 🐈👨‍💻🤷🏼‍♂️
  678. Ge0rG Windows 10 can't be operated in accordance with the GDPR
  679. Zash Enterprise Edition?
  680. Maranda Ge0rG: your(?) opinion, beside that almost nothing can be in operated in "accordance" with the GDPR 😂😂😂
  681. Maranda XMPP on head
  682. pep. Wasn't it visual studio adding telemetry to every single binary it compiles by default?
  683. pdurbin has joined
  684. pep. Thinking that a company needs GDPR to not do this is just mind blowing
  685. pep. Thinking that a company needs GDPR not to do this is just mind blowing
  686. pep. and still they've only made it "easier" to opt-out
  687. moparisthebest Imagine using Windows in 2020
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  689. Maranda (and telemetry can be easily disabled, we do it on all devices we deal out fwiw)
  690. pep. It's fine for the small number of devices you deal out maybe
  691. pep. What about all the rest
  692. Maranda I'm not "Mother Theresa"
  693. pep. Note that to me now we could be talking about Google, Apple, Amazon, and a lot more, it would be just the same
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  695. pep. Maranda, don't defend them then
  696. Maranda I don't have nothing to defend nor care to, even because a lot of unixlike implementations have far worse privacy concerns. Your own country wanted to put backdoors in routers' fw pep. 😂
  697. Nekit has left
  698. pep. That's on the vendor though
  699. pdurbin has left
  700. pep. And don't worry I'm not defending "my country" either :)
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  703. Maranda Stuff like Immuni has maybe a reason to pick my privacy / civil concerns, the fact here the gov has violated 7 articles of our republic costitution acts without a law from the parliament to jail me in a 38 squared meters apart., suspend my costitutional rights, and basically putting a country on its knees without a concrete motivation pep. .. The rest is bs I'm not really interested into tbh.
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  706. pep. What's Immuni?
  707. Maranda Some covid tracing app the Italian Gov. "would like to implement" 😂
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  709. pep. What's the relation between what we said above
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  712. pep. Do you think I'm going to defend a tracking app with what I said above? :p
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  715. Maranda That something like that may pick my privacy concerns not for sure Telemetry in Windows 10
  716. pep. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way
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