XSF Discussion - 2020-04-23

flow, xep-0055

you need to grep for `<reported>`, not `<reported/>`.

It is never going to be empty

jonas’, IIRC is used 'lt;reported'

yeah, well

of course with escaping ;)

ohh, yeah, the code examples would not be escaped because of <[![CDATA sections

rg -l 'lt;reported' |sort

so you actually have to grep for literal <reported

rg -l '(lt;|<)reported' |sort

uhh a multi-user_gaming protoxep in the inbox appears

Ohhhhh which one is it 🐈🐈🐈

0ad uses XMPP AFAIK

Yup, it does, for its lobby.

is there a place / would it make sense to advertise a status URI somewhere via XMPP? something something 0157? that a client could cache maybe? even if that will obviously be advertised oob as well ✏

pep., you mean so that someone who can’t connect to jabber.fr atm can get their client to say “Hey, have a look at https://status.jabberfr.org maybe something is going on!”?

pep., oh, are you XEPping this?

I'm not I'm curious ✏

:(

It's been on my todo for too long

baby steps

Link Mauve: that

pep., please do~

✏

pep., https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-December/035514.html

good

sharing your to-do is always a first step :)

I think there would be some value in having it separate if you can also add a 'type', e.g. if the client could automatically fetch and display items from an Atom feed (or I'm guessing there are standards for exactly this purpose)

`_status.jabberfr.org IN URI "https://statut.jabberfr.org/"`

That would be nice indeed!

There, you don't even need the server up, just DNS. Problem solved.

right, probably better via DNS

if DNS is dead you probably can't access the server already anyway, the opposite is not necessarily true

I really like the potential for clients to automatically show this to the user when a working account suddenly has connection problems

yep

and if DNS is dead you probably can't access https://statut.jabberfr.org/ either

Zash, _status._5222._tcp.jabberfr.org

is a URI record a thing?

apparently yes

Ah, priority and weight.

For our usecase, DNS would be inconvenient because we don’t control the domain of all of our users.

your users do, though

they could CNAME to your _status recrod

We could do it for our own domains, but this would be something the hosted users would have to figure out by themselves.

Hm, you could add SRV records pointing at something that just responds with a `<stream:error><system-shutdown/><text>Service down because reasons.<////>`

that’d be fun

Hm

And `<see-other-host/>` if it's back up?

pep., you laugh...

I have something in the pipeline

next up: deploy a centralised service doing so and get everyone's data!! ✏

:(

So this is not really an XMPP thing right

yeah

I asked in #powerdns if they know something about a thing which exists in dNS

but apparently there is not

hmm, I'm curious how many dns providers allow using this type..

It's already great when they think about SRV and they don't butcher the necessary fields

I saw something (also in #powerdns) about AT&T still not supporting SRV

AT&T as in, not their ISP service?

I understood it as in the ISP

Why would an ISP need support for this

https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/g636ql/psa_its_2020_and_att_still_provides_dns_servers/

ugh

Because ISPs usually provide DNS resolvers to their customers?

... but DNS-over-HTTPS is here to save the day!

/s

:(

> What are you going to do, switch providers? laughs in government protected monopoly

When do we start the revolution.

It happened. You missed it. This is the result!

clownflare?

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP_ideas/Server_status_page ?

XEP-0045 is a long document. If <{muc#user}x><item/></x> is missing an 'affiliation' attribute, does it default to 'none'?

The schema says 'affiliation' is optional

I think it may be illegal

and the schema being wrong?

Possibly. Not confident enough to say yes :)

It does not sound unrealistic that the affiliation is 'none' if not explicitly otherwise announced

Alternatively, maybe the service doesn't want you to know the affiliation?

is affiliation hiding a thing in xep45?

I agree. There is text that says you MUST send a presence «containing an <item/> child with the 'role' attribute set to a value of "moderator", "participant", or "visitor", and with the 'affiliation' attribute set to a value of "owner", "admin", "member", or "none" as appropriate.»

flow, not sure, probably not.

!

MattJ, ralphm, Seve

Helloo

Let's wait some more

hmm.

:)

Guus sent apologies, though

(I see you didn't mention him)

He did, we could still be 4 though

Yeah I didn't because of his mail

Ok well.. let's cancel today..

Indeed

can't we just cancel the whole year?

Hey, sorry, here now

MattJ, !

Not like there are many things to discuss about, but..

I'm ok with cancelling though, unless we have something that needs discussing

I'm personally kinda blocking on ralph and his marketing lead, even though I'm also looking on my end, but I did get strong hints that people preferred not bothering with money if it's not necessary, so I don't really want to waste other people's times promising things that are not coming

Apologies for the last-minute cancellation. Crazy times ~at work~. ✏

(or what's the strikethrough markup?)

It doesn't exist in xhtml-im

Guus: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0393.html#strike

(so what you just did)

\o/

I take that as a win. How are things, Sam? It's been a while.

Guus: same as ever; trying to find a job that will let me be involved in non-profits and standards orgs and what not again. How are things on your side of the pond?

as stated: crazy.

*nods* I know that feeling.

There's only so much homeschooling that noise cancellation headphones can cancel 😉

Oh yah, I can imagine.

We're doing well - healthy too. Takes a bit of a toll, but we're probably least worst off, as compared to most.

Same here; as much as I complain about my job and working from home, I still have one and have a home to work from so I can't complain too much.

count your blessings, right?

Indeed

good to hear you're doing ok

yah you too, stay healthy!

likewise.

Hello

I have some basic questions about XMPP

Shoot

I don't know if this is the right forum...

1. Can a user create a multi user chat?

Or is it something that needs to be created by the server administrator?

Usually this can be configured in the server.

Do you mean chat rooms are configured in the server or do you mean you can configure the server so that users can create chat rooms?

I mean the admin can configure in their server whether to restrict room creation to admins or local users or allow anyone on any server.

There are many public servers that allow everyone to create rooms

Good, thanks, now I understand.

Didn't know.

So, if I have an account on one of those servers, will I easily find on my client (Gajim, Conversations, whatever) how to create a room?

You don’t need to have an account on the server that hosts the chatrooms, and you only have to join a room in most clients to have it created

some clients separate both actions, which is a good thing imo (while it is the same protocol-wise)

If you want to create a private room for you and your friends only, conversations is probably the best tool right now

Cool

So, if a user wants to create a private room for she and her friends, she needs to have her account in one of those MUC-enabled servers, doesn't she?

Forget my last question, I'm rereading your answers, and got it clear now : o

Is OMEMO a client software that works regardless of the XMPP server? (kind of GPG and email servers)

Or does the server requires something so that OMEMO works properly?

The server needs to support "PEP"

and not explicitly block omemo like some ejabberd versions

Cool. I'm seeing it now in an XMPP server list, this PEP thing is listed there.

Ooh, it is blocked by a server software, why?

I understand OMEMO makes thing easier than OTR when you have several devices, but does OMEMO support multi-user chat?

easier I don't know, but it makes them possible. Or it did, at the time

And yes OMEMO supports multi-user chat

Thank you!

if I recall correctly the reasoning was something like "omemo causes support headaches for server operators so our config will block it by default"

hopefully there aren't anymore of those left in the wild, it was pretty stupid

moparisthebest, we all have different stories, maybe that was justified for them :)

Anyway, it is weird if the rest of the servers can handle it...

*in my opinion :)

hasn't that been changed ages ago already though?

yes

ok

This was definitely the right forum, very accurate answers by lots of people.

I am chatting through a webpage

Can I join the chat from my XMPP client?

What's the address?

xmpp:xsf@muc.xmpp.org?join

Your browser might not understand this though.. the room address is just xsf@muc.xmpp.org

Yeap, thanks! That's simpler now.

Thank you all very much!

A good news: https://twitter.com/neustradamus/status/1253425669687488512

wat

Is sourceforge even still alive

yes :D

ha that's an awesome delay

Changed owners a bunch of times

they were just going through their tweets from 2 years ago or?

I have done several reminders (same owner) and recently on the website.

nice work Neustradamus !

Thanks moparisthebest :)

Neustradamus, what does your tweet mean, that > We can say that #SourceForge now knows @xmpp/#XMPP

I have requested an important change: https://sourceforge.net/directory/communications/chat/jabber

pep. my favourite kodi distro, xbian, is also on sourceforge. That was when I lealized that sourceforge ist still around. ✏

Neustradamus, oh this is really cool

Sourceforge has completely lost their credibility at the moment when they started injecting malware into project downloads

Microsoft doing it in 1, 2..

pep. ...?

GitHub

pep., the most Microsoft could do is closing it down

I doubt that is all they can do

injecting trojans is not their usual pattern ;P

More likely that they'll integrate it reall well with Visual Studio and Azure.

Zash, yes or if they find it useless either absorb it into something else and then do what they did to codeplex

That's Microsoft pattern.

Zash: with office!

@Maranda that seems more like Google pattern...

Ge0rG: it was a previous owner...

Wojtek, google learned their agenda from someone :P

who was there before them, but then MS improved on behaviour, while Google is just getting worser and worser.

...and then surpassed the masster, buy also launching gazzilion of new services just to close them shortly after :D

well, MS lost a bit of market share, Google gain a bit so the roles reversed I guess

Microsoft is quickly regaining on what they lost tbh in the latest years.

Maranda [23:23]: > pep., the most Microsoft could do is closing it down That's the most Google thing. Microsoft would integrate AD, Office and finally replace git with the visual studio sync protocol

Team Foundation Hub?

Ge0rG, if they deem it profitable, if they don't they just go for the retire and close and boom.

Seems unlikely.

Zash, I could make a list of things where they just did it that way, but I don't think I need to.

For now the only thing that annoys me of M$ is the last version of WAC because since the dashboard scripts will check for Win32_BaseBoard.product it'll break mercilessly on all systems with older SMBIOS 🤦‍♂️

Lucky you. If only there was one annoying thing MS did :)

pep.: well windows is lately, susprisingly, less and less annoying tasks wise. I statistically cuss more when I have to deal with *nix

So as long as this trend is mantained 🐈👨‍💻🤷🏼‍♂️

Windows 10 can't be operated in accordance with the GDPR

Enterprise Edition?

Ge0rG: your(?) opinion, beside that almost nothing can be in operated in "accordance" with the GDPR 😂😂😂

XMPP on head

Wasn't it visual studio adding telemetry to every single binary it compiles by default?

Thinking that a company needs GDPR not to do this is just mind blowing ✏

and still they've only made it "easier" to opt-out

Imagine using Windows in 2020

(and telemetry can be easily disabled, we do it on all devices we deal out fwiw)

It's fine for the small number of devices you deal out maybe

What about all the rest

I'm not "Mother Theresa"

Note that to me now we could be talking about Google, Apple, Amazon, and a lot more, it would be just the same

Maranda, don't defend them then

I don't have nothing to defend nor care to, even because a lot of unixlike implementations have far worse privacy concerns. Your own country wanted to put backdoors in routers' fw pep. 😂

That's on the vendor though

And don't worry I'm not defending "my country" either :)

Stuff like Immuni has maybe a reason to pick my privacy / civil concerns, the fact here the gov has violated 7 articles of our republic costitution acts without a law from the parliament to jail me in a 38 squared meters apart., suspend my costitutional rights, and basically putting a country on its knees without a concrete motivation pep. .. The rest is bs I'm not really interested into tbh.

What's Immuni?

Some covid tracing app the Italian Gov. "would like to implement" 😂

What's the relation between what we said above

Do you think I'm going to defend a tracking app with what I said above? :p

That something like that may pick my privacy concerns not for sure Telemetry in Windows 10

I'm sorry if you don't see it that way