XSF Discussion - 2020-04-28

  1. pdurbin has joined

  2. bear has joined

  3. gav has left

  4. aj has left

  5. pdurbin has left

  6. Wojtek has left

  7. debacle has left

  8. mukt2 has left

  9. bear has left

  10. alexis has left

  11. mukt2 has joined

  12. alexis has joined

  13. govanify has left

  14. govanify has joined

  15. alexis has left

  16. govanify has left

  17. govanify has joined

  18. mukt2 has left

  19. alexis has joined

  20. mukt2 has joined

  21. emus has left

  22. lorddavidiii has left

  23. lskdjf has left

  24. govanify has left

  25. govanify has joined

  26. bear has joined

  27. govanify has left

  28. govanify has joined

  29. mukt2 has left

  30. bear has left

  31. mukt2 has joined

  32. stpeter has joined

  33. stpeter has left

  34. mukt2 has left

  35. arc has left

  36. arc has joined

  37. mukt2 has joined

  38. waqas has left

  39. waqas has joined

  40. karoshi has left

  41. govanify has left

  42. govanify has joined

  43. mukt2 has left

  44. pdurbin has joined

  45. bear has joined

  46. Daniel has left

  47. Daniel has joined

  48. pdurbin has left

  49. pdurbin has joined

  50. arc has left

  51. arc has joined

  52. pdurbin has left

  53. bear has left

  54. govanify has left

  55. govanify has joined

  56. pdurbin has joined

  57. govanify has left

  58. govanify has joined

  59. mukt2 has joined

  60. stpeter has joined

  61. stpeter has left

  62. govanify has left

  63. govanify has joined

  64. bear has joined

  65. mukt2 has left

  66. govanify has left

  67. govanify has joined

  68. bear has left

  69. govanify has left

  70. govanify has joined

  71. xsf has left

  72. andy has joined

  73. govanify has left

  74. govanify has joined

  75. xsf has joined

  76. govanify has left

  77. govanify has joined

  78. waqas has left

  79. Daniel has left

  80. mimi89999 has left

  81. mimi89999 has joined

  82. Daniel has joined

  83. bear has joined

  84. DebXWoody has joined

  85. waqas has joined

  86. adiaholic_ has joined

  87. adiaholic_ has left

  88. adiaholic_ has joined

  89. mimi89999 has left

  90. mimi89999 has joined

  91. waqas has left

  92. bear has left

  93. Tobias has joined

  94. govanify has left

  95. govanify has joined

  96. arc has left

  97. arc has joined

  98. Mikaela has joined

  99. adiaholic_ has left

  100. adiaholic_ has joined

  101. mukt2 has joined

  102. bear has joined

  103. Daniel has left

  104. Daniel has joined

  105. Daniel has left

  106. Daniel has joined

  107. Daniel has left

  108. Daniel has joined

  109. Daniel has left

  110. Daniel has joined

  111. Daniel has left

  112. Daniel has joined

  113. paul has joined

  114. Daniel has left

  115. Daniel has joined

  116. Daniel has left

  117. Daniel has joined

  118. krauq has left

  119. lovetox has joined

  120. krauq has joined

  121. rion has left

  122. rion has joined

  123. marc has left

  124. adiaholic_ has left

  125. adiaholic_ has joined

  126. mukt2 has left

  127. lorddavidiii has joined

  128. marc has joined

  129. adiaholic_ has left

  130. adiaholic_ has joined

  131. andrey.g has joined

  132. xecks has joined

  133. ths has joined

  134. ths has left

  135. ths has joined

  136. Nekit has joined

  137. Alex has joined

  138. werdan has joined

  139. Jeybe has joined

  140. Jeybe has left

  141. Jeybe has joined

  142. LNJ has joined

  143. mukt2 has joined

  144. Jeybe has left

  145. Jeybe has joined

  146. debacle has joined

  147. Jeybe has left

  148. Jeybe has joined

  149. wurstsalat has joined

  150. mukt2 has left

  151. emus has joined

  152. Jeybe has left

  153. Jeybe has joined

  154. adiaholic_ has left

  155. adiaholic_ has joined

  156. Jeybe has left

  157. Jeybe has joined

  158. Maranda has joined

  159. Jeybe has left

  160. Jeybe has joined

  161. adiaholic_ has left

  162. adiaholic_ has joined

  163. Jeybe has left

  164. Jeybe has joined

  165. lovetox has left

  166. Jeybe has left

  167. Jeybe has joined

  168. goffi has joined

  169. Jeybe has left

  170. Jeybe has joined

  171. mukt2 has joined

  172. Daniel has left

  173. Daniel has joined

  174. Jeybe has left

  175. Jeybe has joined

  176. vanitasvitae has left

  177. vanitasvitae has joined

  178. lovetox has joined

  179. Jeybe has left

  180. Jeybe has joined

  181. lovetox has left

  182. lovetox has joined

  183. govanify has left

  184. mukt2 has left

  185. Jeybe has left

  186. Jeybe has joined

  187. govanify has joined

  188. adiaholic_ has left

  189. adiaholic_ has joined

  190. Jeybe has left

  191. Jeybe has joined

  192. debacle has left

  193. Jeybe has left

  194. Jeybe has joined

  195. neshtaxmpp has joined

  196. Jeybe has left

  197. Jeybe has joined

  198. Jeybe has left

  199. Jeybe has joined

  200. marc has left

  201. Jeybe has left

  202. Jeybe has joined

  203. marc has joined

  204. bear has left

  205. xsf has left

  206. xsf has joined

  207. karoshi has joined

  208. larma has left

  209. neshtaxmpp has left

  210. mukt2 has joined

  211. larma has joined

  212. xsf has left

  213. xsf has joined

  214. mukt2 has left

  215. vanitasvitae has left

  216. vanitasvitae has joined

  217. bear has joined

  218. marc has left

  219. lskdjf has joined

  220. bear has left

  221. j.r has joined

  222. LNJ has left

  223. LNJ has joined

  224. mukt2 has joined

  225. mukt2 has left

  226. govanify has left

  227. govanify has joined

  228. contrapunctus has joined

  229. sonny has left

  230. sonny has joined

  231. sonny has left

  232. sonny has joined

  233. Maranda has left

  234. govanify has left

  235. govanify has joined

  236. xsf has left

  237. xsf has joined

  238. marc has joined

  239. Maranda has joined

  240. bear has joined

  241. bear has left

  242. govanify has left

  243. govanify has joined

  244. mukt2 has joined

  245. krauq has left

  246. krauq has joined

  247. krauq has left

  248. govanify has left

  249. govanify has joined

  250. govanify has left

  251. govanify has joined

  252. adiaholic_ has left

  253. adiaholic_ has joined

  254. govanify has left

  255. govanify has joined

  256. !XSF_Martin has left

  257. !XSF_Martin has joined

  258. Jeybe has left

  259. Jeybe has joined

  260. bear has joined

  261. krauq has joined

  262. Jeybe has left

  263. pdurbin has left

  264. bear has left

  265. krauq has left

  266. krauq has joined

  267. debacle has joined

  268. govanify has left

  269. govanify has joined

  270. mukt2 has left

  271. Jeybe has joined

  272. bear has joined

  273. Jeybe has left

  274. Jeybe has joined

  275. Jeybe has left

  276. Jeybe has joined

  277. Jeybe has left

  278. Jeybe has joined

  279. bear has left

  280. LNJ has left

  281. LNJ has joined

  282. bear has joined

  283. pdurbin has joined

  284. govanify has left

  285. govanify has joined

  286. bear has left

  287. govanify has left

  288. govanify has joined

  289. pdurbin has left

  290. Ge0rG has left

  291. Ge0rG has joined

  292. govanify has left

  293. govanify has joined

  294. werdan has left

  295. werdan has joined

  296. Jeybe has left

  297. Jeybe has joined

  298. contrapunctus has left

  299. Jeybe has left

  300. Jeybe has joined

  301. bear has joined

  302. emus has left

  303. emus has joined

  304. Jeybe has left

  305. Jeybe has joined

  306. emus has left

  307. emus has joined

  308. emus has left

  309. emus has joined

  310. emus has left

  311. emus has joined

  312. emus has left

  313. emus has joined

  314. marc0s has left

  315. bear has left

  316. emus has left

  317. emus has joined

  318. emus has left

  319. emus has joined

  320. lovetox has left

  321. lovetox has joined

  322. bear has joined

  323. Maranda has left

  324. stpeter has joined

  325. stpeter has left

  326. marc0s has joined

  327. larma

    XEP-0308 allows to edit the last message of each full jid by the bare jid in direct messages. Which means I could technically edit another resources message. But when I do, I run into a race condition as that other resource could send another message shortly before my correction thus effectively making my correction "out of scope" of XEP-0308.

  328. andrey.g has left

  329. larma

    Also, when I send each message with a new resource, I could technically use XEP-0308 standards compliant to correct any message, not only the latest

  330. larma

    The issue with race condition also applies to editing in MUCs, due to multi session nicks

  331. Ge0rG

    larma: the scoping doesn't make much sense. I'd suggest you roll a D20 to determine how many recent messages you accept edits for, and only count those based on the sender's bare JID / identity

  332. Ge0rG

    larma: also you could hope that a user won't send a message from device A and *at the same time* edit an old message from device B

  333. Zash

    Aren't edits by id too?

  334. larma

    Ge0rG, question is not only for incoming but also outgoing. And "at the same time" could be caused by a mobile device coming back online and having that message still in its offline queue.

  335. larma

    Zash, yes, we do have the ID, but 0308 has some obscure rules beside ID (which seems to be so that legacy fallback can easier spot that it's a correction)

  336. Ge0rG

    larma: yaxim is limiting editing to the last 10 messages from the same sender

  337. Ge0rG

    larma: the XEP author said "editing other than the last message is out of scope of the XEP"

  338. Ge0rG

    and don't even get me started on which ID to edit in multi-edits.

  339. larma

    so yaxim allows incoming and outcoming edits that are not specified in any standard?

  340. Ge0rG


  341. Ge0rG

    and it's even worse than that.

  342. larma

    And then other clients don't support those edits incoming I guess? So UX is crap

  343. Ge0rG

    yaxim allows edits in semi-anon MUCs originating from the same nickname, even if somebody stole the nickname

  344. Ge0rG

    larma: 🤷

  345. larma

    re nick stealing: 0421 to the rescue?

  346. Blue has left

  347. Ge0rG

    larma: 0421 has interesting issues of its own. But yes, it's on my long-term todo list

  348. Ge0rG

    which is probably just an elaborate way of saying: I don't care

  349. Ge0rG

    if you want to attach identity to nicknames in semi-anon MUCs, then register the nicknames or don't use semi-anon

  350. larma

    also, which clients will allow this correction-10-messages-ago incoming? And why 10? And is that the last 10 by bare jid, so if I write 1 message X with resource A and then >10 message with resource B, you don't allow correction of message X anymore (even though you should under XEP-0308)?

  351. Ge0rG

    larma: 1. yaxim, I don't care about the others. 2. It seemed like a good trade-off, given nobody else cared about it. 3. Yes, by bare JID (or by nickname in MUCs)

  352. larma

    Great, so we probably have a mix of incompatible rules for last message correction in various clients and even the spec is broken by design

  353. Ge0rG

    larma: indeed

  354. larma

    So, how do we fix this mess?

  355. Ge0rG

    larma: write a new XEP that extends 0308 to the last N messages.

  356. pdurbin has joined

  357. lovetox has left

  358. Ge0rG

    larma: Daniel suggested YMC, "YOLO Message Correction", allowing to edit any messages regardless of age and sender.

  359. Ge0rG

    I can't find any relevant mail from me to standards, so it probably was buried in a Council meeting

  360. larma

    But when we do "any message correction", fallback body becomes pretty useless, no?

  361. Ge0rG

    fallback body of what?

  362. larma

    well fallback body of correction

  363. Ge0rG

    why should there be a *fallback* body?

  364. larma

    for clients not supporting it?

  365. Zash

    fallback body should be "I mean $message *"

  366. Ge0rG

    larma: there is no fallback body in 0308

  367. larma

    Ge0rG, well the body is the fallback

  368. Ge0rG

    larma: the body is the newbody.

  369. larma

    Well, it happens to have two usecases at the same time

  370. larma

    because legacy clients will display it as a normal message

  371. larma

    which is ok, if it really is the last message

  372. larma

    which is ok, if it really is the last message, see?

  373. pdurbin has left

  374. Ge0rG

    larma: so your point is: correcting an older message will lead to confusion in non-0308 client users?

  375. larma

    with 0308 we don't really have that problem due to its restriction to the last message.

  376. larma

    if we allow edits of older messages though, we get into trouble

  377. Ge0rG

    let me make a controversial proposal: editing of older messages should be restricted by their age, not by their amount.

  378. larma

    still the same issue, no?

  379. Zash

    Why not both‽

  380. Ge0rG

    it's happened to me many times that I sent a message, then another one, then realized I had a typo in the first one.

  381. Ge0rG

    larma: actually it's a much worse issue: time is relative

  382. Zash

    Sneak-edit of a message that has scrolled out of view seems about as bad as a sneak-edit of a 7 hour old message.

  383. gav has joined

  384. larma


  385. Zash

    Snake edit?

  386. Zash

    Snape edit!

  387. Zash

    I mean an edit that you're unlikely to notice

  388. Zash

    Ie because it scrolled out of view.

  389. larma

    I don't consider those an issue really

  390. Ge0rG

    Zash: but how large is the view?

  391. Zash

    Either because time passed or because discussio

  392. Zash

    Ge0rG, three fiddy

  393. Ge0rG

    in yaxim, a view is roughly ten messages. See, I found a reason for the arbitrary number

  394. Zash

    Dice roll

  395. larma

    If I edit an old message that is probably scrolled out of view at the recipient, I must expect the edit not to be recognized by them

  396. larma

    that's ok

  397. Ge0rG

    larma: "But you said yes to my contract proposal, it's binding now!"

  398. Ge0rG

    the older a message, the lower the probability that you actually *need* to edit it.

  399. larma

    Ge0rG, "My client says 'Yes (edited)', and you changed to from 'No'"

  400. larma

    Ge0rG, "My client says 'Yes (edited)', and you changed it from 'No'"

  401. larma

    Also, this seems to be a social issue, not a protocol issue.

  402. Ge0rG

    of course it is

  403. larma

    I can also edit paper contracts after you signed them, even without you noticing.

  404. larma

    I don't think we need to do better than reality here.

  405. Ge0rG

    larma: what limits do you consider sensible?

  406. larma

    No limit?

  407. Ge0rG

    edit everything?

  408. larma

    Yes, but I don't see the solution for the "not sure which message was edited" in the fallback case

  409. gav has left

  410. larma

    except not showing edits to legacy clients at all.

  411. Ge0rG

    larma: stop caring too much about legacy clients.

  412. Ge0rG

    if you edit the 11th-last message, yaxim will not merge the edit into the original, but will display this as a new message with an "edited" tag

  413. larma

    Ge0rG, legacy client = literally every client right now

  414. Ge0rG

    0308 is part of Advanced IM 2020

  415. larma

    Yes, but only the "version" accepting an edit of the last message of each full jid by the corresponding bare jid, which I bet nobody implements.

  416. pep.

    fwiw I was also considering with poezio taking into account more than the latest, in a proper way. poezio already does AMC in reading

  417. pep.

    (maybe unintentionally, dunno, it was the case when I joined)

  418. pep.

    and it's possible to send AMC with /rawxml (great UX!)

  419. Ge0rG

    larma: 0308 was adopted in 2013, that was long before my activity started.

  420. andrey.g has joined

  421. Ge0rG

    larma: I could theoretically imagine Council relaxing the "last message only" rule, but I wouldn't bet on it

  422. debacle has left

  423. larma

    Ge0rG, well my point is: If I fix a typo 10 messages ago, I don't want any client to display that typo-fixing as a new message, as it would just cause confusion. But I still want to be able to do those fixes.

  424. Ge0rG

    larma: I agree.

  425. larma

    So just changing XEP-0308 to allow AMC doesn't solve the issue

  426. Ge0rG

    larma: nothing will solve the issue right now.

  427. Ge0rG

    not even creating a new XEP that defines AMC on top of 0308.

  428. pep.

    larma, maybe using <body> for this is just wrong :P

  429. Ge0rG

    except maybe creating that new XEP and putting it into CS2021 and then waiting.

  430. Ge0rG

    pep.: please no!

  431. pep.

    <replace @id>correction</replace>

  432. Dele Olajide has joined

  433. larma

    creating a new XEP that defines AMC *outside* of 0308 so that legacy clients / 0308-clients do not display the correction at all would solve the issue.

  434. larma

    but that implies not using <body>

  435. mukt2 has joined

  436. larma

    Or precisely not using <body> in <message>

  437. pep.

    And then people want you to take into consideration non-implementing clients and you're back to square one

  438. Ge0rG

    pep.: easy: just add a legacy body into AMC!

  439. larma

    could still be <message><edit xmlns="urn:xmpp:edit:0"><body xmlns="jabber:client">Correction</body></edit></message>

  440. Ge0rG

    larma: that would make some sense indeed.

  441. Ge0rG

    would allow differentiating the *edited* part from the edit metadata part.

  442. pep.

    larma, I'm not sure I understand the intent

  443. pep.

    non-implementing clients won't understand this

  444. larma

    <message><body>/me edits "Corection" in message from 01:02:03 to "Correction"</body><edit xmlns="urn:xmpp:edit:0"><body xmlns="jabber:client">Correction</body></edit></message>

  445. Ge0rG


  446. pep.


  447. larma

    Fallback body *only* if I want legacy clients to display something of course

  448. larma

    (not in the case of fixing that one type)

  449. pep.

    Seeing the wire format of /me hurts every single time

  450. lovetox has joined

  451. pep.

    larma, still not sure I understand the point of <body/> in <edit/>

  452. pep.

    Also in your fallback you included localtime

  453. pep.

    Or UTC, or ?

  454. pep.

    Which one is it

  455. larma

    Well the <body> in <message> is only for those clients that don't understand the <edit>. The client supporting <edit> will just edit the old message and not display the fallback at all.

  456. pep.

    I did say the <body> in <edit>

  457. larma

    yes, that's whay is used as a replacement for the body when the client supports <edit>

  458. larma

    because I might want to edit other elements than edit

  459. pep.

    Why do you need an extra child

  460. pep.

    ah ok

  461. larma

    because I might want to edit other elements than body

  462. pep.

    That's the info I was missing

  463. larma

    And it also seems consistent to have the displayed body in the <body> element

  464. pep.

    If you could only edit <body>, I don't think so

  465. pep.

    I think it's being frowned upon anyway to edit anything else than <body/>, iiuc

  466. larma

    Well, if I upload a file, why not edit the description of the file (assuming a SIMS-alike file sending)

  467. pep.

    I'm personally fine with this

  468. Ge0rG

    why not replace the file with another one?

  469. larma

    or that

  470. Ge0rG

    I accidentally a dickpic.

  471. larma

    or if the file is a text file and has a typo in it

  472. pep.

    Ge0rG, the internet will have to live with it forever

  473. larma

    OK, solution was found, now just need someone to write the XEP 😀

  474. larma

    And then a council to accept it even if it's not making use of fastenings 😕

  475. Ge0rG

    larma: but it should make use of fastenings! You fasten the correction to the original message!

  476. larma

    Ge0rG, my message is end-to-end-encrypted with forward secrecy, I am not fastening anything because fastening is crap when having forward secrecy

  477. larma

    newsflash: OMEMO uses forward secrecy and is literally what made XMPP popular again

  478. larma

    but it's probably a sidecase we don't want to care about 😕

  479. Blue has joined

  480. Blue

    Can somebody smart explain me something about stanza id xep?

  481. Ge0rG

    Blue: if you find somebody smart...

  482. mukt2 has left

  483. pep.

    larma: everyone has a different opinion on what makes XMPP (not) popular :p

  484. Blue

    I'm pretty sure most of you here are smart on my terms =)

  485. arc has left

  486. arc has joined

  487. Ge0rG

    Blue: then maybe ask the question :)

  488. larma

    pep., yeah, I just needed my daily criticism of the reactions decision, didn't want to actually make a point here 😉

  489. pep.


  490. Zash

    What if we lock all stakeholders in a room until the whole reactions thing is resolved?

  491. pep.

    that is, everybody kills each other?

  492. flow

    larma> Fallback body *only* if I want legacy clients to display something of course that's also the approach which I would be pursuing

  493. Blue

    So, there is nice and cool "id" attribute for the message. You can edit retract confirm delivery with that and so much more. Basically - da heck is stansa id? How to behave with it?

  494. flow

    larma> Well, if I upload a file, why not edit the description of the file (assuming a SIMS-alike file sending) that a nice idea, but I fear it is far easier to implement just re-issuing the SIMS

  495. pep.

    flow, then a client displays two "media" thing?

  496. pep.

    For ""the same"" file

  497. flow

    pep., maybe, or it does only display the corrected SIMS, while still allowing data fetches of the old SIMS

  498. larma

    Blue, id attribute and <origin-id> id attribute should be the same. <stanza-id> is important for MUCs and MAM.

  499. Ge0rG

    Blue: old clients don't generate a unique id attribute.

  500. pep.

    Ah, fight on 0359, that's also something I was curious about

  501. LNJ has left

  502. Ge0rG

    and <stanza-id> is added by somebody else than the sender, typically an archive

  503. flow

    Blue, if something doesn't explicitly talk about xep359 IDs then use the RFC 6120 IDs

  504. MattJ

    Blue, the 'id' attribute is optional, and set by the first entity to generate the stanza. It may not be present, and it may not be unique. The stanza-id element allows other entities (such as a client's server) to inject their own ids.

  505. LNJ has joined

  506. MattJ

    The id attribute is useful for short-term error tracking, stanza-id is useful for an entity to assign a more permanent unique id to a stanza (and it's not limited to just one)

  507. MattJ

    and origin-id is mostly a hack that we've discussed potentially removing in the past (though it has a couple of useful properties)

  508. Ge0rG

    I'm interested in those useful properties, beyond virtue signaling of "proper" ID generation

  509. Blue

    I just don't get how to treat them. You see, I have sort of message order in my lil app. I ordered them using ID attribute. Do i need the same order of stansaIds pointing to the same messages? Or do I just replace my pointing to the message id with newly discovered stansa id? Then how do I discover the stansa id server assigned to my outgoing message? There are attachements to the messages described in some xep, they go to stansa id, but i just checked message corrections - they go only to origin ids.... I'm a bit lost and confused =)

  510. MattJ

    None of the ids are guaranteed to be sortable

  511. MattJ

    So you can't use them for order

  512. MattJ

    There is currently no (sensible) way to discover the stanza-id assigned by the server to an outgoing stanza, that's something that will hopefully be fixed at some point

  513. Blue

    but that doesn't make sence... There is sorted by time stream of messages...

  514. contrapunctus has joined

  515. MattJ

    Sure, I'm not saying messages don't have an order. I'm saying that ids are not used to convey the order.

  516. Blue

    but... how to query the history then?

  517. LNJ has left

  518. MattJ

    You can still query from the last incoming message

  519. LNJ has joined

  520. Blue

    but I cant relay on time either - it's also optional (stamp if I'm not mistaken) and a little to approximate, isn't it?

  521. MattJ

    Yes, don't use time

  522. zzzed has joined

  523. Zash

    Time where?

  524. MattJ


  525. Zash

    I do have this "origin-time" draft...

  526. zzzed

    Hello, when i try to start private convesation (otr) and to generate fingerprints app instant close

  527. zzzed

    any help?

  528. arc has left

  529. arc has joined

  530. arc has left

  531. arc has joined

  532. Blue

    so... for that reason I build an order of messages, but seems like I have miscalculated about the id's I use in that order

  533. zzzed has left

  534. zzzed has joined

  535. zzzed

    anyone to help me out?

  536. arc has left

  537. arc has joined

  538. zzzed

    Kev MattJ ralphm

  539. Nekit has left

  540. arc has left

  541. arc has joined

  542. Zash has left

  543. Zash has joined

  544. zzzed


  545. zzzed


  546. zzzed


  547. MattJ

    zzzed, you're asking the wrong people in the wrong channel

  548. MattJ

    Stop highlighting people for no reason please

  549. zzzed

    aha , where should i finde help then?

  550. MattJ

    What app are you using?

  551. zzzed

    you dont need to be rude at all , you can say on nice way

  552. zzzed


  553. MattJ


  554. zzzed


  555. zzzed

    have a nice day

  556. MattJ

    You too

  557. zzzed has left

  558. adiaholic_ has left

  559. adiaholic_ has joined

  560. alexis has left

  561. Wojtek has joined

  562. debacle has joined

  563. Jeybe has left

  564. Jeybe has joined

  565. Jeybe has left

  566. Jeybe has joined

  567. Jeybe has left

  568. Jeybe has joined

  569. lovetox has left

  570. pdurbin has joined

  571. Jeybe has left

  572. Jeybe has joined

  573. lorddavidiii has left

  574. lorddavidiii has joined

  575. Jeybe has left

  576. Jeybe has joined

  577. arc has left

  578. arc has joined

  579. pdurbin has left

  580. jonas’

    does anyone have a clue about those ref files we generate for XEPs?

  581. jonas’


  582. jonas’

    I’d love to get a review on that one before hiting the green button

  583. flow

    jonas’, lgtm

  584. jonas’

    flow, can you add a review on github please?

  585. flow

    those are mostly used by https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/

  586. mukt2 has joined

  587. flow

    and as you can see, e.g. https://xmpp.org/extensions/refs/reference.XSF.XEP-0435.xml has no target

  588. flow

    int the root note

  589. flow

    in the root node

  590. flow

    wheras https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml2/reference.NIST.SP.800-185.xml has

  591. jonas’

    flow, good, can you add that as a review on github?

  592. jonas’


  593. Max has left

  594. Maranda has joined

  595. j.r has left

  596. Max has joined

  597. Zash

    What are this?

  598. flow

    Zash, "this"?

  599. Zash

    These refs things

  600. arc has left

  601. arc has joined

  602. flow

    those ref entries are consumed by xml2rfc and can be used as references in I-Ds and RFCs

  603. flow

    think of biblatex entries for RFCs

  604. Zash


  605. Maranda has left

  606. mukt2 has left

  607. Nekit has joined

  608. Maranda has joined

  609. LNJ has left

  610. LNJ has joined

  611. Jeybe has left

  612. Jeybe has joined

  613. waqas has joined

  614. j.r has joined

  615. LNJ has left

  616. alexis has joined

  617. LNJ has joined

  618. sonny has left

  619. sonny has joined

  620. sonny has left

  621. sonny has joined

  622. mukt2 has joined

  623. Jeybe has left

  624. Jeybe has joined

  625. j.r has left

  626. j.r has joined

  627. j.r has left

  628. j.r has joined

  629. Jeybe has left

  630. Jeybe has joined

  631. Jeybe has left

  632. Jeybe has joined

  633. ths has left

  634. mukt2 has left

  635. LNJ has left

  636. Dele Olajide has left

  637. lovetox has joined

  638. pdurbin has joined

  639. LNJ has joined

  640. Jeybe has left

  641. pdurbin has left

  642. mukt2 has joined

  643. DebXWoody has left

  644. DebXWoody has joined

  645. DebXWoody has left

  646. DebXWoody has joined

  647. DebXWoody has left

  648. Jeybe has joined

  649. alexis has left

  650. lovetox has left

  651. lovetox has joined

  652. lovetox has left

  653. lovetox has joined

  654. lovetox has left

  655. lovetox has joined

  656. lovetox has left

  657. lovetox has joined

  658. lovetox has left

  659. lovetox has joined

  660. lovetox has left

  661. lovetox has joined

  662. lovetox has left

  663. lovetox has joined

  664. lovetox has left

  665. lovetox has joined

  666. lovetox has left

  667. lovetox has joined

  668. lovetox has left

  669. lovetox has joined

  670. lovetox has left

  671. lovetox has joined

  672. lovetox has left

  673. lovetox has joined

  674. Jeybe has left

  675. Jeybe has joined

  676. lovetox has left

  677. lovetox has joined

  678. lovetox has left

  679. lovetox has joined

  680. lovetox has left

  681. adiaholic_ has left

  682. adiaholic_ has joined

  683. neshtaxmpp has joined

  684. adiaholic_ has left

  685. alexis has joined

  686. adiaholic_ has joined

  687. lovetox has joined

  688. lovetox has left

  689. lovetox has joined

  690. lovetox has left

  691. lovetox has joined

  692. Jeybe has left

  693. Jeybe has joined

  694. Jeybe has left

  695. Jeybe has joined

  696. calvin has joined

  697. Jeybe has left

  698. Jeybe has joined

  699. Daniel has left

  700. Daniel has joined

  701. lovetox has left

  702. jonas’ has left

  703. Jeybe has left

  704. Jeybe has joined

  705. jonas’ has joined

  706. xecks has left

  707. Mikaela has left

  708. Jeybe has left

  709. Jeybe has joined

  710. werdan has left

  711. Tobias has left

  712. Jeybe has left

  713. Jeybe has joined

  714. Daniel has left

  715. Daniel has joined

  716. pdurbin has joined

  717. Jeybe has left

  718. Jeybe has joined

  719. Jeybe has left

  720. Jeybe has joined

  721. Jeybe has left

  722. Jeybe has joined

  723. pdurbin has left

  724. alexis has left

  725. Jeybe has left

  726. Jeybe has joined

  727. Jeybe has left

  728. Jeybe has joined

  729. mukt2 has left

  730. wurstsalat has left

  731. wurstsalat has joined

  732. goffi has left

  733. Jeybe has left

  734. j.r has left

  735. Jeybe has joined

  736. j.r has joined

  737. mukt2 has joined

  738. govanify has left

  739. govanify has joined

  740. govanify has left

  741. govanify has joined

  742. alexis has joined

  743. govanify has left

  744. govanify has joined

  745. Jeybe has left

  746. Jeybe has joined

  747. Jeybe has left

  748. Jeybe has joined

  749. Jeybe has left

  750. Jeybe has joined

  751. Daniel has left

  752. j.r has left

  753. j.r has joined

  754. Jeybe has left

  755. Jeybe has joined

  756. alexis has left

  757. Daniel has joined

  758. Jeybe has left

  759. Jeybe has joined

  760. alexis has joined

  761. Jeybe has left

  762. Jeybe has joined

  763. Jeybe has left

  764. Jeybe has joined

  765. robertooo has left

  766. robertooo has joined

  767. eta has left

  768. eta has joined

  769. Jeybe has left

  770. Daniel has left

  771. Jeybe has joined

  772. Daniel has joined

  773. Jeybe has left

  774. Jeybe has joined

  775. marc has left

  776. Jeybe has left

  777. wurstsalat has left

  778. vanitasvitae has left

  779. vanitasvitae has joined

  780. arc has left

  781. arc has joined

  782. arc has left

  783. arc has joined

  784. emus has left

  785. emus has joined

  786. vanitasvitae has left

  787. vanitasvitae has joined

  788. andy has left

  789. vanitasvitae has left

  790. Daniel has left

  791. mukt2 has left

  792. Daniel has joined

  793. mukt2 has joined

  794. vanitasvitae has joined

  795. sonny has left

  796. sonny has joined

  797. vanitasvitae has left

  798. pdurbin has joined

  799. vanitasvitae has joined

  800. mukt2 has left

  801. Daniel has left

  802. Nekit has left

  803. Daniel has joined

  804. pdurbin has left

  805. mukt2 has joined

  806. govanify has left

  807. govanify has joined

  808. mukt2 has left

  809. Seve has left

  810. mukt2 has joined

  811. Wojtek has left

  812. lorddavidiii has left

  813. Daniel has left

  814. Daniel has joined

  815. paul has left

  816. LNJ has left

  817. xsf has left