XSF Discussion - 2020-05-03


  1. govanify has left

  2. govanify has joined

  3. alexis has left

  4. alexis has joined

  5. Seve has left

  6. larma has left

  7. govanify has left

  8. govanify has joined

  9. larma has joined

  10. mukt2 has left

  11. mukt2 has joined

  12. bear has joined

  13. govanify has left

  14. govanify has joined

  15. mukt2 has left

  16. bear has left

  17. mukt2 has joined

  18. lskdjf has left

  19. govanify has left

  20. govanify has joined

  21. pdurbin has joined

  22. aj has joined

  23. govanify has left

  24. govanify has joined

  25. aj has left

  26. alexis has left

  27. mukt2 has left

  28. debacle has left

  29. mukt2 has joined

  30. alexis has joined

  31. pdurbin has left

  32. govanify has left

  33. govanify has joined

  34. emus has left

  35. bear has joined

  36. mukt2 has left

  37. mukt2 has joined

  38. bear has left

  39. sonny has left

  40. sonny has joined

  41. govanify has left

  42. govanify has joined

  43. neshtaxmpp has left

  44. neshtaxmpp has joined

  45. govanify has left

  46. govanify has joined

  47. alexis has left

  48. sonny has left

  49. neshtaxmpp has left

  50. sonny has joined

  51. alexis has joined

  52. govanify has left

  53. govanify has joined

  54. sonny has left

  55. sonny has joined

  56. govanify has left

  57. govanify has joined

  58. sonny has left

  59. sonny has joined

  60. bear has joined

  61. alexis has left

  62. alexis has joined

  63. govanify has left

  64. govanify has joined

  65. sonny has left

  66. sonny has joined

  67. bear has left

  68. govanify has left

  69. govanify has joined

  70. pdurbin has joined

  71. govanify has left

  72. govanify has joined

  73. pdurbin has left

  74. govanify has left

  75. govanify has joined

  76. sonny has left

  77. sonny has joined

  78. govanify has left

  79. govanify has joined

  80. sonny has left

  81. sonny has joined

  82. govanify has left

  83. govanify has joined

  84. Yagiza has joined

  85. bear has joined

  86. goffi has left

  87. pdurbin has joined

  88. govanify has left

  89. govanify has joined

  90. sonny has left

  91. sonny has joined

  92. bear has left

  93. Seve has joined

  94. mukt2 has left

  95. govanify has left

  96. govanify has joined

  97. mukt2 has joined

  98. govanify has left

  99. govanify has joined

  100. DebXWoody has joined

  101. govanify has left

  102. govanify has joined

  103. mimi89999 has left

  104. mimi89999 has joined

  105. govanify has left

  106. govanify has joined

  107. bear has joined

  108. govanify has left

  109. govanify has joined

  110. govanify has left

  111. govanify has joined

  112. bear has left

  113. mukt2 has left

  114. mukt2 has joined

  115. govanify has left

  116. govanify has joined

  117. govanify has left

  118. govanify has joined

  119. paul has joined

  120. govanify has left

  121. govanify has joined

  122. bear has joined

  123. Jeybe has joined

  124. mukt2 has left

  125. lovetox has joined

  126. mukt2 has joined

  127. Jeybe has left

  128. Jeybe has joined

  129. bear has left

  130. adiaholic_ has left

  131. adiaholic_ has joined

  132. Jeybe has left

  133. Jeybe has joined

  134. Jeybe has left

  135. Jeybe has joined

  136. lorddavidiii has joined

  137. waqas has joined

  138. waqas has left

  139. Jeybe has left

  140. Jeybe has joined

  141. waqas has joined

  142. lovetox has left

  143. Daniel has left

  144. Daniel has joined

  145. Daniel has left

  146. Jeybe has left

  147. govanify has left

  148. govanify has joined

  149. mukt2 has left

  150. sonny has left

  151. sonny has joined

  152. mukt2 has joined

  153. govanify has left

  154. govanify has joined

  155. werdan has joined

  156. mukt2 has left

  157. mukt2 has joined

  158. alexis has left

  159. alexis has joined

  160. sonny has left

  161. sonny has joined

  162. govanify has left

  163. govanify has joined

  164. bear has joined

  165. govanify has left

  166. govanify has joined

  167. andy has joined

  168. Daniel has joined

  169. Jeybe has joined

  170. Jeybe has left

  171. Jeybe has joined

  172. bear has left

  173. Jeybe has left

  174. mukt2 has left

  175. Jeybe has joined

  176. xecks has joined

  177. Jeybe has left

  178. Jeybe has joined

  179. govanify has left

  180. govanify has joined

  181. Jeybe has left

  182. Jeybe has joined

  183. robertooo has left

  184. robertooo has joined

  185. mukt2 has joined

  186. Jeybe has left

  187. Jeybe has joined

  188. adiaholic_ has left

  189. adiaholic_ has joined

  190. Jeybe has left

  191. Jeybe has joined

  192. lovetox has joined

  193. Jeybe has left

  194. Jeybe has joined

  195. Mikaela has joined

  196. Jeybe has left

  197. Jeybe has joined

  198. xecks has left

  199. xecks has joined

  200. bear has joined

  201. Jeybe has left

  202. Jeybe has joined

  203. karoshi has joined

  204. mukt2 has left

  205. werdan has left

  206. mukt2 has joined

  207. Tobias has joined

  208. Jeybe has left

  209. Jeybe has joined

  210. Jeybe has left

  211. Jeybe has joined

  212. bear has left

  213. Yagiza

    Hello!

  214. Jeybe has left

  215. Jeybe has joined

  216. Yagiza

    I have some questions about latest version of OMEMO implementation.

  217. Yagiza

    I tried to ask in jdev@conference.jabber.org but after more than 24 hours of waiting got no answer.

  218. Yagiza

    Can anyone here help me?

  219. Yagiza

    Or should I ask in Standards mailing list?

  220. neshtaxmpp has joined

  221. Jeybe has left

  222. Jeybe has joined

  223. jonas’

    Yagiza, that room is deprecated

  224. jonas’

    check out xmpp:jdev@muc.xmpp.org?join instead

  225. emus has joined

  226. Yagiza

    Ok

  227. Jeybe has left

  228. Jeybe has joined

  229. DebXWoody has left

  230. mukt2 has left

  231. DebXWoody has joined

  232. Jeybe has left

  233. Jeybe has joined

  234. mukt2 has joined

  235. Jeybe has left

  236. Jeybe has joined

  237. Nekit has joined

  238. goffi has joined

  239. robertooo has left

  240. robertooo has joined

  241. bear has joined

  242. mukt2 has left

  243. flow

    MattJ> Therefore it is entirely reasonable for a library with a dataforms API to perform the newline splitting/joining itself I aggree, but that doesn't mean that the library should or even must loose the information about indvidual values

  244. flow

    MattJ> Therefore it is entirely reasonable for a library with a dataforms API to perform the newline splitting/joining itself I aggree, but that doesn't mean that the library should or even must loose the information about individual values

  245. karoshi has left

  246. flow

    hmm maybe we should do something about jdev@conference.jabber.org. remove voice for non-members? autokick with a nice hint towards jdev@muc.xmpp.org?

  247. karoshi has joined

  248. flow

    not really nice but probably better than people getting the feeling being ignored there

  249. andy has left

  250. MattJ

    Automatically send invites to the new room?

  251. mukt2 has joined

  252. jonas’

    I’d place a bot which auto-replies to anyone writing there with a link to the new room, but I can’t see what’s going on there due to the small dh key.

  253. jonas’

    so I’m not comfortable with running a bot there

  254. MattJ

    > "that doesn't mean the library should lose the information about the individual values" I agree they shouldn't be lost, but they aren't... they are just represented differently :)

  255. MattJ

    And sure, an array of strings (lines) is a potential sane API for that

  256. MattJ

    An actual multiline string is equally sane if you have a standard line ending sequence for the current platform

  257. !XSF_Martin

    The dh key issue should be solved once jabber.org is migrated to prosody. 😃

  258. flow

    I agree they shouldn't be lost, but they aren't... they are just represented differently :) They are lost as soon as there is a single value containing a newline, which is, as far as I can tell, not forbidden

  259. jonas’

    > Data provided for fields of type "text-multi" SHOULD NOT contain any newlines (the \n and \r characters).

  260. jonas’

    it’s a SHOULD NOT at least

  261. flow

    until we we have a nice bot or something in the old jdev@, we potentially should do something we can do right now, like changing the MUC configuration

  262. flow

    jonas’, right, not a MUST. and this is unrelated to the question why we shouldn't simply use text-multi for MAM IDs

  263. MattJ

    We set the subject iirc

  264. MattJ

    In old jdev

  265. flow

    so I wonder if we should prevent particpants for writing to the MUC? not really nice, but potentially better compared to them feeling ignored

  266. bear has left

  267. emus has left

  268. emus has joined

  269. Maranda has left

  270. MattJ

    Could do, yeah

  271. andy has joined

  272. Maranda has joined

  273. Alex has left

  274. Alex has joined

  275. lskdjf has joined

  276. mukt2 has left

  277. emus has left

  278. emus has joined

  279. mukt2 has joined

  280. Dele Olajide has joined

  281. Dele Olajide has left

  282. Jeybe has left

  283. Dele Olajide has joined

  284. Jeybe has joined

  285. LNJ has left

  286. debacle has joined

  287. debacle has left

  288. debacle has joined

  289. LNJ has joined

  290. eta has left

  291. eta has joined

  292. Jeybe has left

  293. Jeybe has joined

  294. Jeybe has left

  295. bear has joined

  296. Jeybe has joined

  297. andy has left

  298. Jeybe has left

  299. Jeybe has joined

  300. lovetox has left

  301. !XSF_Martin has left

  302. andy has joined

  303. !XSF_Martin has joined

  304. neshtaxmpp has left

  305. flow

    Syndace, If I am not mistaken you are one of the authors of the quick response xep, right? If so, is there any reason why this examples declare xml:lang multiple times instead of simply once at the stanza level?

  306. LNJ has left

  307. sonny has left

  308. sonny has joined

  309. bear has left

  310. Syndace

    flow: I guessed that clients set the xml:lang on stream level or on the <body>.

  311. Jeybe has left

  312. sonny has left

  313. sonny has joined

  314. LNJ has joined

  315. Syndace

    So no good reason, could also set it on the message stanza

  316. sonny has left

  317. sonny has joined

  318. jonas’

    best is to mix it up and use it inconsistently throughout the examples

  319. jonas’

    remind everyone about the inheritance rules

  320. flow

    Syndace, some of them probably due, but it is desireable that examples follow best practices, plus what jonas said

  321. flow

    Syndace, some of them probably do, but it is desireable that examples follow best practices, plus what jonas said

  322. Syndace

    That implies that best practice is setting it on the message stanza?

  323. flow

    Syndace, i'd say best practices is to avoid bytes on the wire when possible

  324. flow

    in the real world, xml:lang is often defined at stream level so you wouldn't find it neither on the stanza or extension element level

  325. Yagiza has left

  326. flow

    in the real world, xml:lang is often defined at stream level so you shouldn't find it neither on the stanza or extension element level (if it matches the stream level definition)

  327. Yagiza has joined

  328. flow

    but for examples, on the stanza level is probably good enough

  329. Syndace

    Right. Will mix it up a bit :)

  330. Jeybe has joined

  331. flow

    after thinking a bit about it, am I actually not soo sure about the mixing. since xml:lang plays a key rule in the xep, it is maybe sensible to remind the reader of xml:lang inheritance rules and how the affect this particular protocol *in text*

  332. neshtaxmpp has joined

  333. Syndace

    I think I do?

  334. jonas’

    that, too

  335. jonas’

    most of the time, you’ll find the attribute on the stanza though, since servers have to carry it over from the stream level when routing the stanza

  336. flow

    I think it is actually a bit confusing in the text

  337. jonas’

    and I doubt many check if it happens to coincide with the xml:lang they set on the s2s tsream

  338. flow

    "The xml:lang set on this element MUST mirror the xml:lang of the <body> included in the message stanza next to the <action> element."

  339. Syndace

    Maybe I don't repeat the inheritance rules, but I state that the body and the quick response elements must have the same xml:lang and that only one body is supported

  340. flow

    that makes it sound that you need to explicitly set xml:lang on the element to the readers unfamiliar with XML rules

  341. Syndace

    right, it forces you to set xml:lang on the elemenz

  342. flow

    which would lead to implementations emitting elements where it is explicitly set, and even worse implementations requiring it to be explicitly set

  343. flow

    which would lead to implementations emitting elements where it is explicitly set, and even worse, implementations requiring it to be explicitly set

  344. Syndace

    I'm not 100% sure. "Mirroring" implies that if there is no xml:lang on the body, there is also no xml:lang on the action

  345. flow

    Syndace, are you talking about effective xml:lang on the body or explicitly set xml:lang on the body?

  346. Syndace

    Explicit

  347. flow

    no xep should ever depend on explicitly set inherited xml attributes values

  348. Syndace

    Actually, it doesn't even matter

  349. flow

    At least xmlns and xml:lang are inherited

  350. Syndace

    Is there a document I can refer to regarding xml:lang or do I repeat the rules myself

  351. flow

    I am currently trying to find out if the quick response xep does require explicitly set xml:lang in the extension element. I think it currently at least gives the impression

  352. flow

    Syndace, xml 1.0 § 2.12

  353. Syndace

    I agree that the current phrasing might be interpreted as requiring xml:lang, even though that wasn't my intention

  354. Syndace

    What I want to say is "the effective xml:lang of the action element MUST be equivalent to the effective xml:lang of the body"

  355. Syndace

    > Syndace, xml 1.0 § 2.12 cool, thanks

  356. flow

    Syndace, you are welcome, and thanks for the XEP (and that's from one as someone who loves data forms and ad-hoc commands) :)

  357. xecks has left

  358. xecks has joined

  359. winfried has left

  360. mukt2 has left

  361. winfried has joined

  362. winfried has left

  363. winfried has joined

  364. winfried has left

  365. winfried has joined

  366. bear has joined

  367. Syndace

    Looking forward to where this XEP is going, I expect a bit of a wild ride :)

  368. j.r has left

  369. j.r has joined

  370. bear has left

  371. Dele Olajide has left

  372. marc

    MattJ, Ge0rG: I modified 401 a bit and have also a first ejabberd implementation based on 389 http://dump.zapb.de/xeps/xep-0401.html#preauth-ibr

  373. marc

    Atm, I implemented it like in example 12 and 14

  374. lovetox has joined

  375. mukt2 has joined

  376. andy has left

  377. xsf has left

  378. alameyo has left

  379. andy has joined

  380. DebXWoody has left

  381. Jeybe has left

  382. werdan has joined

  383. neshtaxmpp has left

  384. Jeybe has joined

  385. neshtaxmpp has joined

  386. DebXWoody has joined

  387. mukt2 has left

  388. werdan has left

  389. bear has joined

  390. mukt2 has joined

  391. nyco has left

  392. winfried has left

  393. winfried has joined

  394. nyco has joined

  395. winfried has left

  396. winfried has joined

  397. Shell has joined

  398. bear has left

  399. Zash has left

  400. Zash has joined

  401. mukt2 has left

  402. Shell has left

  403. Shell has joined

  404. mukt2 has joined

  405. j.r has left

  406. j.r has joined

  407. karoshi has left

  408. karoshi has joined

  409. mukt2 has left

  410. bear has joined

  411. mukt2 has joined

  412. Jeybe has left

  413. Jeybe has joined

  414. Jeybe has left

  415. Jeybe has joined

  416. Jeybe has left

  417. pdurbin has left

  418. bear has left

  419. xecks has left

  420. xecks has joined

  421. alameyo has joined

  422. Shell has left

  423. adiaholic_ has left

  424. adiaholic_ has joined

  425. adiaholic_ has left

  426. adiaholic_ has joined

  427. karoshi has left

  428. karoshi has joined

  429. derdaniel has joined

  430. derdaniel has left

  431. marc has left

  432. debacle has left

  433. marc has joined

  434. alexis has left

  435. alexis has joined

  436. mukt2 has left

  437. bear has joined

  438. mukt2 has joined

  439. j.r has left

  440. rion has left

  441. rion has joined

  442. eta has left

  443. eta has joined

  444. mukt2 has left

  445. sonny has left

  446. sonny has joined

  447. bear has left

  448. mukt2 has joined

  449. lorddavidiii has left

  450. sonny has left

  451. lorddavidiii has joined

  452. mukt2 has left

  453. karoshi has left

  454. karoshi has joined

  455. mukt2 has joined

  456. waqas has left

  457. mukt2 has left

  458. lovetox has left

  459. bear has joined

  460. mukt2 has joined

  461. govanify has left

  462. govanify has joined

  463. pdurbin has joined

  464. Nekit has left

  465. bear has left

  466. pdurbin has left

  467. paul has left

  468. paul has joined

  469. j.r has joined

  470. werdan has joined

  471. Jeybe has joined

  472. Daniel has left

  473. Daniel has joined

  474. Daniel has left

  475. Daniel has joined

  476. Shell has joined

  477. lovetox has joined

  478. sonny has joined

  479. bear has joined

  480. mukt2 has left

  481. mukt2 has joined

  482. Daniel has left

  483. Daniel has joined

  484. debacle has joined

  485. waqas has joined

  486. bear has left

  487. sonny has left

  488. sonny has joined

  489. Daniel has left

  490. Daniel has joined

  491. xecks has left

  492. xecks has joined

  493. Daniel has left

  494. Daniel has joined

  495. Daniel has left

  496. Daniel has joined

  497. karoshi has left

  498. xecks has left

  499. Daniel has left

  500. xecks has joined

  501. Daniel has joined

  502. sonny has left

  503. sonny has joined

  504. sonny has left

  505. sonny has joined

  506. sonny has left

  507. sonny has joined

  508. sonny has left

  509. sonny has joined

  510. bear has joined

  511. karoshi has joined

  512. pdurbin has joined

  513. sonny has left

  514. sonny has joined

  515. Daniel has left

  516. Daniel has joined

  517. edhelas has left

  518. edhelas has joined

  519. bear has left

  520. xecks has left

  521. xecks has joined

  522. contrapunctus has joined

  523. contrapunctus has left

  524. pdurbin has left

  525. sonny has left

  526. sonny has joined

  527. mukt2 has left

  528. mukt2 has joined

  529. karoshi has left

  530. karoshi has joined

  531. lovetox has left

  532. bear has joined

  533. mukt2 has left

  534. contrapunctus has joined

  535. Maranda has left

  536. mukt2 has joined

  537. Maranda has joined

  538. rion has left

  539. rion has joined

  540. lovetox has joined

  541. mukt2 has left

  542. lovetox has left

  543. lovetox has joined

  544. Maranda has left

  545. Maranda has joined

  546. mukt2 has joined

  547. werdan has left

  548. rion has left

  549. rion has joined

  550. werdan has joined

  551. Nekit has joined

  552. emus has left

  553. emus has joined

  554. intosi has left

  555. ralphm has left

  556. ralphm has joined

  557. intosi has joined

  558. mukt2 has left

  559. pdurbin has joined

  560. mukt2 has joined

  561. werdan has left

  562. govanify has left

  563. govanify has joined

  564. govanify has left

  565. govanify has joined

  566. werdan has joined

  567. werdan has left

  568. pdurbin has left

  569. mukt2 has left

  570. mukt2 has joined

  571. govanify has left

  572. govanify has joined

  573. Dele Olajide has joined

  574. Dele Olajide has left

  575. xecks has left

  576. xecks has joined

  577. werdan has joined

  578. LNJ has left

  579. LNJ has joined

  580. Jeybe has left

  581. sonny has left

  582. sonny has joined

  583. DebXWoody has left

  584. contrapunctus has left

  585. Jeybe has joined

  586. contrapunctus has joined

  587. sonny has left

  588. sonny has joined

  589. mukt2 has left

  590. govanify has left

  591. govanify has joined

  592. mukt2 has joined

  593. karoshi has left

  594. karoshi has joined

  595. david has left

  596. david has joined

  597. adiaholic_ has left

  598. adiaholic_ has joined

  599. Shell has left

  600. murabito has left

  601. werdan has left

  602. mukt2 has left

  603. aj has joined

  604. mukt2 has joined

  605. pdurbin has joined

  606. Jeybe has left

  607. Jeybe has joined

  608. aj has left

  609. mukt2 has left

  610. mukt2 has joined

  611. neshtaxmpp has left

  612. goffi has left

  613. pdurbin has left

  614. Daniel has left

  615. Daniel has joined

  616. Daniel has left

  617. Daniel has joined

  618. Mikaela has left

  619. Daniel has left

  620. Daniel has joined

  621. Daniel has left

  622. Daniel has joined

  623. Jeybe has left

  624. lovetox has left

  625. Jeybe has joined

  626. contrapunctus has left

  627. sonny has left

  628. sonny has joined

  629. alexis has left

  630. Tobias has left

  631. Daniel has left

  632. Daniel has joined

  633. Daniel has left

  634. Daniel has joined

  635. alexis has joined

  636. Daniel has left

  637. Daniel has joined

  638. adiaholic_ has left

  639. adiaholic_ has joined

  640. mukt2 has left

  641. karoshi has left

  642. karoshi has joined

  643. lovetox has joined

  644. mukt2 has joined

  645. lorddavidiii has left

  646. govanify has left

  647. govanify has joined

  648. govanify has left

  649. govanify has joined

  650. Shell has joined

  651. neshtaxmpp has joined

  652. Shell has left

  653. Shell has joined

  654. mukt2 has left

  655. mukt2 has joined

  656. xsf has joined

  657. andy has left

  658. robertooo has left

  659. Maranda

    I think the next thing I'll implement will be 409, a good portion of 386 is already done.

  660. robertooo has joined

  661. Yagiza has left

  662. govanify has left

  663. govanify has joined

  664. Jeybe has left

  665. Jeybe has joined

  666. govanify has left

  667. govanify has joined

  668. govanify has left

  669. govanify has joined

  670. Shell has left

  671. Jeybe has left

  672. Shell has joined

  673. sonny has left

  674. sonny has joined

  675. mukt2 has left

  676. Zash has left

  677. Zash has joined

  678. Shell has left

  679. Shell has joined

  680. govanify has left

  681. govanify has joined

  682. govanify has left

  683. govanify has joined

  684. mukt2 has joined

  685. govanify has left

  686. govanify has joined

  687. Shell has left

  688. lovetox has left

  689. mukt2 has left

  690. pdurbin has joined

  691. bear has left

  692. debacle has left

  693. mukt2 has joined

  694. Seve has left

  695. pdurbin has left

  696. emus has left

  697. LNJ has left

  698. emus has joined

  699. bear has joined

  700. j.r has left

  701. neshtaxmpp has left

  702. karoshi has left

  703. mukt2 has left

  704. mukt2 has joined

  705. Zash has left

  706. Zash has joined

  707. xecks has left

  708. Zash has left

  709. govanify has left

  710. govanify has joined

  711. mukt2 has left

  712. mukt2 has joined