XSF Discussion - 2020-05-03

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  213. Yagiza Hello!
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  216. Yagiza I have some questions about latest version of OMEMO implementation.
  217. Yagiza I tried to ask in jdev@conference.jabber.org but after more than 24 hours of waiting got no answer.
  218. Yagiza Can anyone here help me?
  219. Yagiza Or should I ask in Standards mailing list?
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  223. jonas’ Yagiza, that room is deprecated
  224. jonas’ check out xmpp:jdev@muc.xmpp.org?join instead
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  226. Yagiza Ok
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  243. flow MattJ> Therefore it is entirely reasonable for a library with a dataforms API to perform the newline splitting/joining itself I aggree, but that doesn't mean that the library should or even must loose the information about indvidual values
  244. flow MattJ> Therefore it is entirely reasonable for a library with a dataforms API to perform the newline splitting/joining itself I aggree, but that doesn't mean that the library should or even must loose the information about individual values
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  246. flow hmm maybe we should do something about jdev@conference.jabber.org. remove voice for non-members? autokick with a nice hint towards jdev@muc.xmpp.org?
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  248. flow not really nice but probably better than people getting the feeling being ignored there
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  250. MattJ Automatically send invites to the new room?
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  252. jonas’ I’d place a bot which auto-replies to anyone writing there with a link to the new room, but I can’t see what’s going on there due to the small dh key.
  253. jonas’ so I’m not comfortable with running a bot there
  254. MattJ > "that doesn't mean the library should lose the information about the individual values" I agree they shouldn't be lost, but they aren't... they are just represented differently :)
  255. MattJ And sure, an array of strings (lines) is a potential sane API for that
  256. MattJ An actual multiline string is equally sane if you have a standard line ending sequence for the current platform
  257. !XSF_Martin The dh key issue should be solved once jabber.org is migrated to prosody. 😃
  258. flow I agree they shouldn't be lost, but they aren't... they are just represented differently :) They are lost as soon as there is a single value containing a newline, which is, as far as I can tell, not forbidden
  259. jonas’ > Data provided for fields of type "text-multi" SHOULD NOT contain any newlines (the \n and \r characters).
  260. jonas’ it’s a SHOULD NOT at least
  261. flow until we we have a nice bot or something in the old jdev@, we potentially should do something we can do right now, like changing the MUC configuration
  262. flow jonas’, right, not a MUST. and this is unrelated to the question why we shouldn't simply use text-multi for MAM IDs
  263. MattJ We set the subject iirc
  264. MattJ In old jdev
  265. flow so I wonder if we should prevent particpants for writing to the MUC? not really nice, but potentially better compared to them feeling ignored
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  270. MattJ Could do, yeah
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  305. flow Syndace, If I am not mistaken you are one of the authors of the quick response xep, right? If so, is there any reason why this examples declare xml:lang multiple times instead of simply once at the stanza level?
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  310. Syndace flow: I guessed that clients set the xml:lang on stream level or on the <body>.
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  315. Syndace So no good reason, could also set it on the message stanza
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  318. jonas’ best is to mix it up and use it inconsistently throughout the examples
  319. jonas’ remind everyone about the inheritance rules
  320. flow Syndace, some of them probably due, but it is desireable that examples follow best practices, plus what jonas said
  321. flow Syndace, some of them probably do, but it is desireable that examples follow best practices, plus what jonas said
  322. Syndace That implies that best practice is setting it on the message stanza?
  323. flow Syndace, i'd say best practices is to avoid bytes on the wire when possible
  324. flow in the real world, xml:lang is often defined at stream level so you wouldn't find it neither on the stanza or extension element level
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  326. flow in the real world, xml:lang is often defined at stream level so you shouldn't find it neither on the stanza or extension element level (if it matches the stream level definition)
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  328. flow but for examples, on the stanza level is probably good enough
  329. Syndace Right. Will mix it up a bit :)
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  331. flow after thinking a bit about it, am I actually not soo sure about the mixing. since xml:lang plays a key rule in the xep, it is maybe sensible to remind the reader of xml:lang inheritance rules and how the affect this particular protocol *in text*
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  333. Syndace I think I do?
  334. jonas’ that, too
  335. jonas’ most of the time, you’ll find the attribute on the stanza though, since servers have to carry it over from the stream level when routing the stanza
  336. flow I think it is actually a bit confusing in the text
  337. jonas’ and I doubt many check if it happens to coincide with the xml:lang they set on the s2s tsream
  338. flow "The xml:lang set on this element MUST mirror the xml:lang of the <body> included in the message stanza next to the <action> element."
  339. Syndace Maybe I don't repeat the inheritance rules, but I state that the body and the quick response elements must have the same xml:lang and that only one body is supported
  340. flow that makes it sound that you need to explicitly set xml:lang on the element to the readers unfamiliar with XML rules
  341. Syndace right, it forces you to set xml:lang on the elemenz
  342. flow which would lead to implementations emitting elements where it is explicitly set, and even worse implementations requiring it to be explicitly set
  343. flow which would lead to implementations emitting elements where it is explicitly set, and even worse, implementations requiring it to be explicitly set
  344. Syndace I'm not 100% sure. "Mirroring" implies that if there is no xml:lang on the body, there is also no xml:lang on the action
  345. flow Syndace, are you talking about effective xml:lang on the body or explicitly set xml:lang on the body?
  346. Syndace Explicit
  347. flow no xep should ever depend on explicitly set inherited xml attributes values
  348. Syndace Actually, it doesn't even matter
  349. flow At least xmlns and xml:lang are inherited
  350. Syndace Is there a document I can refer to regarding xml:lang or do I repeat the rules myself
  351. flow I am currently trying to find out if the quick response xep does require explicitly set xml:lang in the extension element. I think it currently at least gives the impression
  352. flow Syndace, xml 1.0 § 2.12
  353. Syndace I agree that the current phrasing might be interpreted as requiring xml:lang, even though that wasn't my intention
  354. Syndace What I want to say is "the effective xml:lang of the action element MUST be equivalent to the effective xml:lang of the body"
  355. Syndace > Syndace, xml 1.0 § 2.12 cool, thanks
  356. flow Syndace, you are welcome, and thanks for the XEP (and that's from one as someone who loves data forms and ad-hoc commands) :)
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  367. Syndace Looking forward to where this XEP is going, I expect a bit of a wild ride :)
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  372. marc MattJ, Ge0rG: I modified 401 a bit and have also a first ejabberd implementation based on 389 http://dump.zapb.de/xeps/xep-0401.html#preauth-ibr
  373. marc Atm, I implemented it like in example 12 and 14
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  659. Maranda I think the next thing I'll implement will be 409, a good portion of 386 is already done.
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