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Neustradamus
About old and new mucrooms... There is not forward possibility? :)
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pep.
That depends on the oldroom, and also on client support (via <gone/>)
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Zash
Should write something about that, Informational XEP or something. Tombstones and redirects.
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jonas’
tomatoes and redirects
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marc
MattJ, Ge0rG: any comments so far? I would like to make progress soon
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MattJ
marc: sorry, I've had limited time the past week or so
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MattJ
Will look into it today if I can
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Ge0rG
same from me
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Ge0rG
need to read and understand both proposals first.
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Guus
XEP-0289 FMUC question, related to section 5.2 ( https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0289.html#messages ). The example describes how a joining FMUC node (elsinore) sends a message to the joined FMUC node (rabbithole). Federation is configured to use the master-slave mode (where rabbithole is the master). This sentence makes me wonder if I misunderstand a key part of the XEP: > This example is for master-master mode, so rabbithole does not echo the message back to elsinore and elsinore does not need to wait for receipt of this stanza from rabbithole (...) As I understand the XEP, the federation is initiated by elisnore. This is where the configuration lives. No negotiation of the configuration (specifically, the type of mode that's used) seems to take place. This is also referenced to in section 5.1: > Note that this configuration only needs to be one way (that is: there is no protocol reason why rabbithole needs to know that elsinor will be federating with it in advance) How does rabbithole determine that it needs not echo the message back to elsinore?
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marc
MattJ, Ge0rG: 👍
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Guus
(I've taking my question above to the list)✎ -
Guus
(I've taken my question above to the list) ✏
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Zash
Does anyone remember what led XEP-0215 to be broadened from "STUN Server Discovery for Jingle" to the generic-but-not-quite "External Service Discovery" it is now? ( check https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0215-0.1.html ) Going to look trough some archives prior to https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-August/thread.html#16602 but there's not much explicit mention of 215 in any subjects)
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Zash
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-August/016266.html
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Zash
Yeah, that seems to be the thread
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
What is this Room about?
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Zash
The XMPP standards
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Zash: ahh - direct sending of files from user to user should be default :)
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
And possible with any size file
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pep.
wat
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jonas’
you seem to be misunderstanding what "standards" or "xmpp" means in this context
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pep.
Also I would like to raise to our non-existent Code of Conduct committee some issues I have.
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Zash
This is about boring text documents that describe how you'd do that. It's up to developers to decide what methods to use when.
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Zash
pep., write a Procedural XEP about it? :P
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Well I thought XMPP could do direct sending of files like in the old days chat applications.
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
I guess the server decide then on the size of the file.
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
:/
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
So if i wanna send a 4 gb file to someone how to do it on XMPP?
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vanitasvitae
DarkiJah: this is possible with a protocol called Jingle.
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vanitasvitae
XEP-0234 iirc
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
vanitasvitae: great, that is the same thing used for voice and video?
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moparisthebest
actually a few ways I think? but yes, direct user to user can happen with existing protocols
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vanitasvitae
Kind of
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
So we just need someone to put it into XMPP clients?
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Zash
This is already done for files too large to upload to the server afaik
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moparisthebest
the problem is DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life , you might not want that, or your contact might not want it, I'm connected to the same account via various clients at the moment, how do *you* know which client *I* want to recieve said file on?
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vanitasvitae
Jingle is used for negotiation of a transport
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
moparisthebest: lets get back to the old days then sending a file directly fron user to user :)
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moparisthebest
and explain how to do that if your contact is connected via multiple clients?
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moparisthebest
in the old days, you were just connected from your PC :P
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
moparisthebest: you couls accept on the client you want it???
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Could
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moparisthebest
DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, what if you went offline before I decided where I wanted to accept it?
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
moparisthebest: don't make it harder then it is :)
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vanitasvitae
But it is
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moparisthebest
this is the problem http upload solves
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Zash
Use https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0385.html
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Then it gets lost of cause no brainy
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moparisthebest
you upload it, I can grab it from any of my clients whenever I choose later, even if we aren't online at the same time
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Yes but you don't have the option for bigger files.
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moparisthebest
yes you do?
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vanitasvitae
If you run your own server you can decide that limit
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moparisthebest
you can set your http upload server to accept *any* size file
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Its needing s middle man which is a bottle neck
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moparisthebest
mine is set to allow 1gb for example
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vanitasvitae
But its better for multi client use cases
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moparisthebest
also MUC like here
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vanitasvitae
Like, you want to receive the file on two devices? With jingle you have to send it twice
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vanitasvitae
Yeah
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vanitasvitae
I can understand the appeal of jingle file transfer, but http upload is what most people really want to use
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vanitasvitae
But again, modern clients often support both methods
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moparisthebest
Conversations does at least
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vanitasvitae
Gajim too, right?
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moparisthebest
I'd assume so
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vanitasvitae
Gajim implements XEP-**** :P
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Sound file incoming on the subject
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
https://share.conversations.im/darkijah/JkSBuFGjMn1vNsgV/RECORDING_20200504_184717741.m4a
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Are audio files stored on the mobile by the way?
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Like the one I just posted?
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Zash
This is a question for the developer of your client
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Zash: roger
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moparisthebest
well, that one is stored on your http upload server for a time too, and another example where direct transfer wouldn't work
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moparisthebest
I'm not going to listen to it regardless :)
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vanitasvitae
DarkiJah: as already said, jingle file transfer is what you describe, and its a thing
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
moparisthebest: well no point in talking to you further.
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vanitasvitae
So if you want to make use of it, go ahead :)
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moparisthebest
DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, because I'm texting and aren't going to listen to your recordings instead? meh
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Roger, see if I can point it out to some of the programmers
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vanitasvitae
You are welcome to do so :)
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
moparisthebest: why use time on you and the the subject if your not going to listen to/my arguments.
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vanitasvitae
Just dont expect people to immediatelly implement it, as its not exactly trivial to do.
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
vanitasvitae: you mean it is not easy to do?
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vanitasvitae
I implemented it and it took 3 months
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
vanitasvitae: 3 month to make?
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vanitasvitae
And since it really only suits an edge case (sending large files), I personally wouldnt implement it again
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vanitasvitae
Yes
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vanitasvitae
Most people are okay with sending smaller files
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DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life
Sigh
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vanitasvitae
For bigger files there are other methods like uploading the file to a cloud or whatever
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vanitasvitae
I understand your arguments and your opinion, but I also have my own :)
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Zash
Uploading to a cloud, just like HTTP upload?
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vanitasvitae
:P
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vanitasvitae
s/cloud/some service with a higher limit/g
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Zash
Nothing about the http upload itself prevents you from hooking that up :)
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vanitasvitae
Sure :)
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vanitasvitae
I think there are even modules that allow upload to eg. Nextcloud, right?
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Zash
Dunno, I don't see there couldn't be.
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moparisthebest
DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, you misunderstand, I'll *read* your arguments, I'm not *listening* to anything
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moparisthebest
I tried to explain what you want is 1. already implemented 2. suboptimal/impossible depending on certain things
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moparisthebest
if you have further questions, go for it
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Zash
Guus, I don't see any FMUC post yet
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Zash
Oh hold on is my email broken?
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Zash
Seems I've been accidentally IPv6-only for a week.
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moparisthebest
probably a pretty good sign that you hardly noticed :)
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Zash
https://pbfcomics.com/comics/post-apocalyptic/
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Guus
> probably a pretty good sign that you hardly noticed :) Not receiving email is a good way to not notice outage.
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Zash
Receiving high-volume mail but not low-volume mail is even better
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Guus
Do like thoughts on that fmuc issue
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Guus
Mostly: is that an omission in the XEP, or did I misunderstand something?