XSF Discussion - 2020-05-04


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  8. Neustradamus About old and new mucrooms... There is not forward possibility? :)
  9. pep. That depends on the oldroom, and also on client support (via <gone/>)
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  196. Zash Should write something about that, Informational XEP or something. Tombstones and redirects.
  197. jonas’ tomatoes and redirects
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  210. marc MattJ, Ge0rG: any comments so far? I would like to make progress soon
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  213. MattJ marc: sorry, I've had limited time the past week or so
  214. MattJ Will look into it today if I can
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  217. Ge0rG same from me
  218. Ge0rG need to read and understand both proposals first.
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  224. Guus XEP-0289 FMUC question, related to section 5.2 ( https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0289.html#messages ). The example describes how a joining FMUC node (elsinore) sends a message to the joined FMUC node (rabbithole). Federation is configured to use the master-slave mode (where rabbithole is the master). This sentence makes me wonder if I misunderstand a key part of the XEP: > This example is for master-master mode, so rabbithole does not echo the message back to elsinore and elsinore does not need to wait for receipt of this stanza from rabbithole (...) As I understand the XEP, the federation is initiated by elisnore. This is where the configuration lives. No negotiation of the configuration (specifically, the type of mode that's used) seems to take place. This is also referenced to in section 5.1: > Note that this configuration only needs to be one way (that is: there is no protocol reason why rabbithole needs to know that elsinor will be federating with it in advance) How does rabbithole determine that it needs not echo the message back to elsinore?
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  263. marc MattJ, Ge0rG: 👍
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  268. Guus (I've taking my question above to the list)
  269. Guus (I've taken my question above to the list)
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  374. Zash Does anyone remember what led XEP-0215 to be broadened from "STUN Server Discovery for Jingle" to the generic-but-not-quite "External Service Discovery" it is now? ( check https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0215-0.1.html ) Going to look trough some archives prior to https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-August/thread.html#16602 but there's not much explicit mention of 215 in any subjects)
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  376. Zash https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-August/016266.html
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  380. Zash Yeah, that seems to be the thread
  381. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life What is this Room about?
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  383. Zash The XMPP standards
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  385. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Zash: ahh - direct sending of files from user to user should be default :)
  386. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life And possible with any size file
  387. pep. wat
  388. jonas’ you seem to be misunderstanding what "standards" or "xmpp" means in this context
  389. pep. Also I would like to raise to our non-existent Code of Conduct committee some issues I have.
  390. Zash This is about boring text documents that describe how you'd do that. It's up to developers to decide what methods to use when.
  391. Zash pep., write a Procedural XEP about it? :P
  392. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Well I thought XMPP could do direct sending of files like in the old days chat applications.
  393. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life I guess the server decide then on the size of the file.
  394. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life :/
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  396. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life So if i wanna send a 4 gb file to someone how to do it on XMPP?
  397. vanitasvitae DarkiJah: this is possible with a protocol called Jingle.
  398. vanitasvitae XEP-0234 iirc
  399. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life vanitasvitae: great, that is the same thing used for voice and video?
  400. moparisthebest actually a few ways I think? but yes, direct user to user can happen with existing protocols
  401. vanitasvitae Kind of
  402. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life So we just need someone to put it into XMPP clients?
  403. Zash This is already done for files too large to upload to the server afaik
  404. moparisthebest the problem is DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life , you might not want that, or your contact might not want it, I'm connected to the same account via various clients at the moment, how do *you* know which client *I* want to recieve said file on?
  405. vanitasvitae Jingle is used for negotiation of a transport
  406. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life moparisthebest: lets get back to the old days then sending a file directly fron user to user :)
  407. moparisthebest and explain how to do that if your contact is connected via multiple clients?
  408. moparisthebest in the old days, you were just connected from your PC :P
  409. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life moparisthebest: you couls accept on the client you want it???
  410. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Could
  411. moparisthebest DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, what if you went offline before I decided where I wanted to accept it?
  412. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life moparisthebest: don't make it harder then it is :)
  413. vanitasvitae But it is
  414. moparisthebest this is the problem http upload solves
  415. Zash Use https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0385.html
  416. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Then it gets lost of cause no brainy
  417. moparisthebest you upload it, I can grab it from any of my clients whenever I choose later, even if we aren't online at the same time
  418. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Yes but you don't have the option for bigger files.
  419. moparisthebest yes you do?
  420. vanitasvitae If you run your own server you can decide that limit
  421. moparisthebest you can set your http upload server to accept *any* size file
  422. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Its needing s middle man which is a bottle neck
  423. moparisthebest mine is set to allow 1gb for example
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  425. vanitasvitae But its better for multi client use cases
  426. moparisthebest also MUC like here
  427. vanitasvitae Like, you want to receive the file on two devices? With jingle you have to send it twice
  428. vanitasvitae Yeah
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  430. vanitasvitae I can understand the appeal of jingle file transfer, but http upload is what most people really want to use
  431. vanitasvitae But again, modern clients often support both methods
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  433. moparisthebest Conversations does at least
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  435. vanitasvitae Gajim too, right?
  436. moparisthebest I'd assume so
  437. vanitasvitae Gajim implements XEP-**** :P
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  440. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Sound file incoming on the subject
  441. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life https://share.conversations.im/darkijah/JkSBuFGjMn1vNsgV/RECORDING_20200504_184717741.m4a
  442. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Are audio files stored on the mobile by the way?
  443. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Like the one I just posted?
  444. Zash This is a question for the developer of your client
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  446. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Zash: roger
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  449. moparisthebest well, that one is stored on your http upload server for a time too, and another example where direct transfer wouldn't work
  450. moparisthebest I'm not going to listen to it regardless :)
  451. vanitasvitae DarkiJah: as already said, jingle file transfer is what you describe, and its a thing
  452. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life moparisthebest: well no point in talking to you further.
  453. vanitasvitae So if you want to make use of it, go ahead :)
  454. moparisthebest DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, because I'm texting and aren't going to listen to your recordings instead? meh
  455. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Roger, see if I can point it out to some of the programmers
  456. vanitasvitae You are welcome to do so :)
  457. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life moparisthebest: why use time on you and the the subject if your not going to listen to/my arguments.
  458. vanitasvitae Just dont expect people to immediatelly implement it, as its not exactly trivial to do.
  459. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life vanitasvitae: you mean it is not easy to do?
  460. vanitasvitae I implemented it and it took 3 months
  461. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life vanitasvitae: 3 month to make?
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  463. vanitasvitae And since it really only suits an edge case (sending large files), I personally wouldnt implement it again
  464. vanitasvitae Yes
  465. vanitasvitae Most people are okay with sending smaller files
  466. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life Sigh
  467. vanitasvitae For bigger files there are other methods like uploading the file to a cloud or whatever
  468. vanitasvitae I understand your arguments and your opinion, but I also have my own :)
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  470. Zash Uploading to a cloud, just like HTTP upload?
  471. vanitasvitae :P
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  473. vanitasvitae s/cloud/some service with a higher limit/g
  474. Zash Nothing about the http upload itself prevents you from hooking that up :)
  475. vanitasvitae Sure :)
  476. vanitasvitae I think there are even modules that allow upload to eg. Nextcloud, right?
  477. Zash Dunno, I don't see there couldn't be.
  478. moparisthebest DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, you misunderstand, I'll *read* your arguments, I'm not *listening* to anything
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  480. moparisthebest I tried to explain what you want is 1. already implemented 2. suboptimal/impossible depending on certain things
  481. moparisthebest if you have further questions, go for it
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  503. Zash Guus, I don't see any FMUC post yet
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  505. Zash Oh hold on is my email broken?
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  517. Zash Seems I've been accidentally IPv6-only for a week.
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  519. moparisthebest probably a pretty good sign that you hardly noticed :)
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  526. Zash https://pbfcomics.com/comics/post-apocalyptic/
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  540. Guus > probably a pretty good sign that you hardly noticed :) Not receiving email is a good way to not notice outage.
  541. Zash Receiving high-volume mail but not low-volume mail is even better
  542. Guus Do like thoughts on that fmuc issue
  543. Guus Mostly: is that an omission in the XEP, or did I misunderstand something?
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