XSF Discussion - 2020-05-04


  1. govanify has left

  2. govanify has joined

  3. govanify has left

  4. govanify has joined

  5. mukt2 has left

  6. mukt2 has joined

  7. Zash has joined

  8. Neustradamus

    About old and new mucrooms... There is not forward possibility? :)

  9. pep.

    That depends on the oldroom, and also on client support (via <gone/>)

  10. paul has left

  11. winfried has left

  12. winfried has joined

  13. lskdjf has left

  14. pdurbin has joined

  15. mukt2 has left

  16. mukt2 has joined

  17. govanify has left

  18. govanify has joined

  19. pdurbin has left

  20. neshtaxmpp has joined

  21. emus has left

  22. govanify has left

  23. govanify has joined

  24. mukt2 has left

  25. mukt2 has joined

  26. govanify has left

  27. govanify has joined

  28. mukt2 has left

  29. mukt2 has joined

  30. sonny has left

  31. sonny has joined

  32. mukt2 has left

  33. govanify has left

  34. govanify has joined

  35. neshtaxmpp has left

  36. neshtaxmpp has joined

  37. govanify has left

  38. govanify has joined

  39. xsf has left

  40. xsf has joined

  41. xsf has left

  42. xsf has joined

  43. xsf has left

  44. xsf has joined

  45. xsf has left

  46. xsf has joined

  47. xsf has left

  48. xsf has joined

  49. adiaholic_ has left

  50. mukt2 has joined

  51. xsf has left

  52. xsf has joined

  53. adiaholic_ has joined

  54. sonny has left

  55. sonny has joined

  56. adiaholic_ has left

  57. adiaholic_ has joined

  58. Yagiza has joined

  59. mukt2 has left

  60. govanify has left

  61. govanify has joined

  62. adiaholic_ has left

  63. adiaholic_ has joined

  64. adiaholic_ has left

  65. adiaholic_ has joined

  66. govanify has left

  67. govanify has joined

  68. adiaholic_ has left

  69. adiaholic_ has joined

  70. pdurbin has joined

  71. bear has left

  72. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life has joined

  73. govanify has left

  74. govanify has joined

  75. xsf has left

  76. xsf has joined

  77. xsf has left

  78. xsf has joined

  79. sonny has left

  80. sonny has joined

  81. xsf has left

  82. xsf has joined

  83. xsf has left

  84. xsf has joined

  85. xsf has left

  86. xsf has joined

  87. xsf has left

  88. xsf has joined

  89. xsf has left

  90. xsf has joined

  91. sonny has left

  92. sonny has joined

  93. Seve has joined

  94. bear has joined

  95. waqas has left

  96. waqas has joined

  97. govanify has left

  98. govanify has joined

  99. bear has left

  100. Jeybe has joined

  101. gav has joined

  102. waqas has left

  103. waqas has joined

  104. sonny has left

  105. sonny has joined

  106. lovetox has joined

  107. Jeybe has left

  108. Jeybe has joined

  109. waqas has left

  110. waqas has joined

  111. waqas has left

  112. waqas has joined

  113. DebXWoody has joined

  114. lovetox has left

  115. matkor has left

  116. matkor has joined

  117. waqas has left

  118. waqas has joined

  119. waqas has left

  120. waqas has joined

  121. Tobias has joined

  122. waqas has left

  123. waqas has joined

  124. waqas has left

  125. waqas has joined

  126. neshtaxmpp has left

  127. waqas has left

  128. waqas has joined

  129. sonny has left

  130. neshtaxmpp has joined

  131. sonny has joined

  132. lovetox has joined

  133. bear has joined

  134. DebXWoody has left

  135. DebXWoody has joined

  136. lovetox has left

  137. lovetox has joined

  138. waqas has left

  139. waqas has joined

  140. bear has left

  141. waqas has left

  142. waqas has joined

  143. waqas has left

  144. waqas has joined

  145. paul has joined

  146. Jeybe has left

  147. Jeybe has joined

  148. marc has left

  149. contrapunctus has joined

  150. waqas has left

  151. waqas has joined

  152. Jeybe has left

  153. Jeybe has joined

  154. Mikaela has joined

  155. andy has joined

  156. waqas has left

  157. waqas has joined

  158. mukt2 has joined

  159. mukt2 has left

  160. lorddavidiii has joined

  161. bear has joined

  162. lovetox has left

  163. sonny has left

  164. sonny has joined

  165. bear has left

  166. emus has joined

  167. j.r has joined

  168. j.r has left

  169. j.r has joined

  170. Dele Olajide has joined

  171. Dele Olajide has left

  172. Dele Olajide has joined

  173. LNJ has joined

  174. bear has joined

  175. contrapunctus has left

  176. contrapunctus has joined

  177. contrapunctus has left

  178. Jeybe has left

  179. Jeybe has joined

  180. lovetox has joined

  181. xecks has joined

  182. karoshi has joined

  183. bear has left

  184. sonny has left

  185. sonny has joined

  186. sonny has left

  187. sonny has joined

  188. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life has left

  189. sonny has left

  190. sonny has joined

  191. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life has joined

  192. goffi has joined

  193. bear has joined

  194. Guus has left

  195. Guus has joined

  196. Zash

    Should write something about that, Informational XEP or something. Tombstones and redirects.

  197. jonas’

    tomatoes and redirects

  198. remko has joined

  199. bear has left

  200. goffi has left

  201. govanify has left

  202. govanify has joined

  203. govanify has left

  204. govanify has joined

  205. marc has joined

  206. debacle has joined

  207. rion has left

  208. rion has joined

  209. Dele Olajide has left

  210. marc

    MattJ, Ge0rG: any comments so far? I would like to make progress soon

  211. Dele Olajide has joined

  212. mukt2 has joined

  213. MattJ

    marc: sorry, I've had limited time the past week or so

  214. MattJ

    Will look into it today if I can

  215. krauq has left

  216. Dele Olajide has left

  217. Ge0rG

    same from me

  218. Ge0rG

    need to read and understand both proposals first.

  219. krauq has joined

  220. mukt2 has left

  221. Steve Kille has left

  222. Steve Kille has joined

  223. bear has joined

  224. Guus

    XEP-0289 FMUC question, related to section 5.2 ( https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0289.html#messages ). The example describes how a joining FMUC node (elsinore) sends a message to the joined FMUC node (rabbithole). Federation is configured to use the master-slave mode (where rabbithole is the master). This sentence makes me wonder if I misunderstand a key part of the XEP: > This example is for master-master mode, so rabbithole does not echo the message back to elsinore and elsinore does not need to wait for receipt of this stanza from rabbithole (...) As I understand the XEP, the federation is initiated by elisnore. This is where the configuration lives. No negotiation of the configuration (specifically, the type of mode that's used) seems to take place. This is also referenced to in section 5.1: > Note that this configuration only needs to be one way (that is: there is no protocol reason why rabbithole needs to know that elsinor will be federating with it in advance) How does rabbithole determine that it needs not echo the message back to elsinore?

  225. Dele Olajide has joined

  226. Dele Olajide has left

  227. lskdjf has joined

  228. goffi has joined

  229. Dele Olajide has joined

  230. bear has left

  231. waqas has left

  232. karoshi has left

  233. karoshi has joined

  234. andrey.g has left

  235. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life has left

  236. govanify has left

  237. govanify has joined

  238. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life has joined

  239. goffi has left

  240. karoshi has left

  241. karoshi has joined

  242. Shell has joined

  243. DebXWoody has left

  244. Dele Olajide has left

  245. sonny has left

  246. sonny has joined

  247. Dele Olajide has joined

  248. Dele Olajide has left

  249. Dele Olajide has joined

  250. bear has joined

  251. andrey.g has joined

  252. DebXWoody has joined

  253. remko has left

  254. remko has joined

  255. bear has left

  256. Shell has left

  257. Shell has joined

  258. karoshi has left

  259. karoshi has joined

  260. andy has left

  261. Dele Olajide has left

  262. mukt2 has joined

  263. marc

    MattJ, Ge0rG: 👍

  264. Dele Olajide has joined

  265. andy has joined

  266. remko has left

  267. werdan has joined

  268. Guus

    (I've taking my question above to the list)

  269. Guus

    (I've taken my question above to the list)

  270. krauq has left

  271. mukt2 has left

  272. remko has joined

  273. xecks has left

  274. xecks has joined

  275. krauq has joined

  276. bear has joined

  277. werdan has left

  278. goffi has joined

  279. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life has left

  280. Shell has left

  281. Shell has joined

  282. bear has left

  283. Shell has left

  284. Shell has joined

  285. Shell has left

  286. Shell has joined

  287. aj has joined

  288. Jeybe has left

  289. Jeybe has joined

  290. mukt2 has joined

  291. goffi has left

  292. pdurbin has left

  293. aj has left

  294. xsf has left

  295. rion has left

  296. rion has joined

  297. mukt2 has left

  298. bear has joined

  299. adiaholic_ has left

  300. aj has joined

  301. bear has left

  302. calvin has joined

  303. emus has left

  304. emus has joined

  305. mukt2 has joined

  306. werdan has joined

  307. aj has left

  308. mukt2 has left

  309. bear has joined

  310. Nekit has left

  311. Nekit has joined

  312. Jeybe has left

  313. Jeybe has joined

  314. karoshi has left

  315. karoshi has joined

  316. Jeybe has left

  317. werdan has left

  318. bear has left

  319. Jeybe has joined

  320. adiaholic_ has joined

  321. sonny has left

  322. sonny has joined

  323. remko has left

  324. remko has joined

  325. Wojtek has joined

  326. mukt2 has joined

  327. pdurbin has joined

  328. adiaholic_ has left

  329. adiaholic_ has joined

  330. mukt2 has left

  331. pdurbin has left

  332. bear has joined

  333. remko has left

  334. remko has joined

  335. bear has left

  336. Shell has left

  337. sonny has left

  338. sonny has joined

  339. remko has left

  340. debacle has left

  341. remko has joined

  342. sonny has left

  343. sonny has joined

  344. andy has left

  345. debacle has joined

  346. debacle has left

  347. debacle has joined

  348. remko has left

  349. bear has joined

  350. andy has joined

  351. bear has left

  352. sonny has left

  353. sonny has joined

  354. bear has joined

  355. remko has joined

  356. pdurbin has joined

  357. pdurbin has left

  358. adiaholic_ has left

  359. adiaholic_ has joined

  360. remko has left

  361. Jeybe has left

  362. Jeybe has joined

  363. sonny has left

  364. sonny has joined

  365. nyco has left

  366. nyco has joined

  367. remko has joined

  368. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life has joined

  369. Nekit has left

  370. karoshi has left

  371. nyco has left

  372. nyco has joined

  373. bear has left

  374. Zash

    Does anyone remember what led XEP-0215 to be broadened from "STUN Server Discovery for Jingle" to the generic-but-not-quite "External Service Discovery" it is now? ( check https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0215-0.1.html ) Going to look trough some archives prior to https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-August/thread.html#16602 but there's not much explicit mention of 215 in any subjects)

  375. Dele Olajide has left

  376. Zash

    https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2007-August/016266.html

  377. werdan has joined

  378. sonny has left

  379. sonny has joined

  380. Zash

    Yeah, that seems to be the thread

  381. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    What is this Room about?

  382. robertooo has left

  383. Zash

    The XMPP standards

  384. robertooo has joined

  385. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Zash: ahh - direct sending of files from user to user should be default :)

  386. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    And possible with any size file

  387. pep.

    wat

  388. jonas’

    you seem to be misunderstanding what "standards" or "xmpp" means in this context

  389. pep.

    Also I would like to raise to our non-existent Code of Conduct committee some issues I have.

  390. Zash

    This is about boring text documents that describe how you'd do that. It's up to developers to decide what methods to use when.

  391. Zash

    pep., write a Procedural XEP about it? :P

  392. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Well I thought XMPP could do direct sending of files like in the old days chat applications.

  393. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    I guess the server decide then on the size of the file.

  394. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    :/

  395. andy has left

  396. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    So if i wanna send a 4 gb file to someone how to do it on XMPP?

  397. vanitasvitae

    DarkiJah: this is possible with a protocol called Jingle.

  398. vanitasvitae

    XEP-0234 iirc

  399. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    vanitasvitae: great, that is the same thing used for voice and video?

  400. moparisthebest

    actually a few ways I think? but yes, direct user to user can happen with existing protocols

  401. vanitasvitae

    Kind of

  402. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    So we just need someone to put it into XMPP clients?

  403. Zash

    This is already done for files too large to upload to the server afaik

  404. moparisthebest

    the problem is DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life , you might not want that, or your contact might not want it, I'm connected to the same account via various clients at the moment, how do *you* know which client *I* want to recieve said file on?

  405. vanitasvitae

    Jingle is used for negotiation of a transport

  406. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    moparisthebest: lets get back to the old days then sending a file directly fron user to user :)

  407. moparisthebest

    and explain how to do that if your contact is connected via multiple clients?

  408. moparisthebest

    in the old days, you were just connected from your PC :P

  409. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    moparisthebest: you couls accept on the client you want it???

  410. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Could

  411. moparisthebest

    DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, what if you went offline before I decided where I wanted to accept it?

  412. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    moparisthebest: don't make it harder then it is :)

  413. vanitasvitae

    But it is

  414. moparisthebest

    this is the problem http upload solves

  415. Zash

    Use https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0385.html

  416. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Then it gets lost of cause no brainy

  417. moparisthebest

    you upload it, I can grab it from any of my clients whenever I choose later, even if we aren't online at the same time

  418. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Yes but you don't have the option for bigger files.

  419. moparisthebest

    yes you do?

  420. vanitasvitae

    If you run your own server you can decide that limit

  421. moparisthebest

    you can set your http upload server to accept *any* size file

  422. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Its needing s middle man which is a bottle neck

  423. moparisthebest

    mine is set to allow 1gb for example

  424. karoshi has joined

  425. vanitasvitae

    But its better for multi client use cases

  426. moparisthebest

    also MUC like here

  427. vanitasvitae

    Like, you want to receive the file on two devices? With jingle you have to send it twice

  428. vanitasvitae

    Yeah

  429. karoshi has left

  430. vanitasvitae

    I can understand the appeal of jingle file transfer, but http upload is what most people really want to use

  431. vanitasvitae

    But again, modern clients often support both methods

  432. alexis has left

  433. moparisthebest

    Conversations does at least

  434. andy has joined

  435. vanitasvitae

    Gajim too, right?

  436. moparisthebest

    I'd assume so

  437. vanitasvitae

    Gajim implements XEP-**** :P

  438. Dele Olajide has joined

  439. neshtaxmpp has left

  440. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Sound file incoming on the subject

  441. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    https://share.conversations.im/darkijah/JkSBuFGjMn1vNsgV/RECORDING_20200504_184717741.m4a

  442. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Are audio files stored on the mobile by the way?

  443. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Like the one I just posted?

  444. Zash

    This is a question for the developer of your client

  445. contrapunctus has joined

  446. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Zash: roger

  447. adiaholic_ has left

  448. adiaholic_ has joined

  449. moparisthebest

    well, that one is stored on your http upload server for a time too, and another example where direct transfer wouldn't work

  450. moparisthebest

    I'm not going to listen to it regardless :)

  451. vanitasvitae

    DarkiJah: as already said, jingle file transfer is what you describe, and its a thing

  452. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    moparisthebest: well no point in talking to you further.

  453. vanitasvitae

    So if you want to make use of it, go ahead :)

  454. moparisthebest

    DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, because I'm texting and aren't going to listen to your recordings instead? meh

  455. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Roger, see if I can point it out to some of the programmers

  456. vanitasvitae

    You are welcome to do so :)

  457. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    moparisthebest: why use time on you and the the subject if your not going to listen to/my arguments.

  458. vanitasvitae

    Just dont expect people to immediatelly implement it, as its not exactly trivial to do.

  459. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    vanitasvitae: you mean it is not easy to do?

  460. vanitasvitae

    I implemented it and it took 3 months

  461. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    vanitasvitae: 3 month to make?

  462. bear has joined

  463. vanitasvitae

    And since it really only suits an edge case (sending large files), I personally wouldnt implement it again

  464. vanitasvitae

    Yes

  465. vanitasvitae

    Most people are okay with sending smaller files

  466. DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life

    Sigh

  467. vanitasvitae

    For bigger files there are other methods like uploading the file to a cloud or whatever

  468. vanitasvitae

    I understand your arguments and your opinion, but I also have my own :)

  469. andy has left

  470. Zash

    Uploading to a cloud, just like HTTP upload?

  471. vanitasvitae

    :P

  472. andy has joined

  473. vanitasvitae

    s/cloud/some service with a higher limit/g

  474. Zash

    Nothing about the http upload itself prevents you from hooking that up :)

  475. vanitasvitae

    Sure :)

  476. vanitasvitae

    I think there are even modules that allow upload to eg. Nextcloud, right?

  477. Zash

    Dunno, I don't see there couldn't be.

  478. moparisthebest

    DarkiJah - JesusIsGodAlmighty.Life, you misunderstand, I'll *read* your arguments, I'm not *listening* to anything

  479. Steve Kille has left

  480. moparisthebest

    I tried to explain what you want is 1. already implemented 2. suboptimal/impossible depending on certain things

  481. moparisthebest

    if you have further questions, go for it

  482. karoshi has joined

  483. karoshi has left

  484. bear has left

  485. Steve Kille has joined

  486. Dele Olajide has left

  487. Dele Olajide has joined

  488. karoshi has joined

  489. Steve Kille has left

  490. xecks has left

  491. xecks has joined

  492. LNJ has left

  493. mukt2 has joined

  494. alexis has joined

  495. LNJ has joined

  496. pdurbin has joined

  497. adiaholic_ has left

  498. adiaholic_ has joined

  499. andy has left

  500. Steve Kille has joined

  501. LNJ has left

  502. andy has joined

  503. Zash

    Guus, I don't see any FMUC post yet

  504. pdurbin has left

  505. Zash

    Oh hold on is my email broken?

  506. debacle has left

  507. LNJ has joined

  508. goffi has joined

  509. goffi has left

  510. adiaholic_ has left

  511. adiaholic_ has joined

  512. adiaholic_ has left

  513. adiaholic_ has joined

  514. adiaholic_ has left

  515. adiaholic_ has joined

  516. bear has joined

  517. Zash

    Seems I've been accidentally IPv6-only for a week.

  518. mukt2 has left

  519. moparisthebest

    probably a pretty good sign that you hardly noticed :)

  520. Daniel has left

  521. Daniel has joined

  522. adiaholic_ has left

  523. adiaholic_ has joined

  524. mukt2 has joined

  525. bear has left

  526. Zash

    https://pbfcomics.com/comics/post-apocalyptic/

  527. adiaholic_ has left

  528. contrapunctus has left

  529. waqas has joined

  530. adiaholic_ has joined

  531. Nekit has joined

  532. debacle has joined

  533. remko has left

  534. remko has joined

  535. adiaholic_ has left

  536. adiaholic_ has joined

  537. Nekit has left

  538. govanify has left

  539. govanify has joined

  540. Guus

    > probably a pretty good sign that you hardly noticed :) Not receiving email is a good way to not notice outage.

  541. Zash

    Receiving high-volume mail but not low-volume mail is even better

  542. Guus

    Do like thoughts on that fmuc issue

  543. Guus

    Mostly: is that an omission in the XEP, or did I misunderstand something?

  544. bear has joined

  545. govanify has left

  546. govanify has joined

  547. karoshi has left

  548. govanify has left

  549. govanify has joined

  550. adiaholic_ has left

  551. adiaholic_ has joined

  552. bear has left

  553. karoshi has joined

  554. alexis has left

  555. Jeybe has left

  556. Jeybe has joined

  557. mukt2 has left

  558. Jeybe has left

  559. Jeybe has joined

  560. pdurbin has joined

  561. Jeybe has left

  562. Jeybe has joined

  563. pdurbin has left

  564. Jeybe has left

  565. Jeybe has joined

  566. sonny has left

  567. sonny has joined

  568. bear has joined

  569. Mikaela has left

  570. mukt2 has joined

  571. govanify has left

  572. govanify has joined

  573. remko has left

  574. adiaholic_ has left

  575. adiaholic_ has joined

  576. DebXWoody has left

  577. neshtaxmpp has joined

  578. Neustradamus has left

  579. Neustradamus has joined

  580. LNJ has left

  581. Yagiza has left

  582. Shell has joined

  583. j.r has left

  584. j.r has joined

  585. j.r has left

  586. Jeybe has left

  587. Jeybe has joined

  588. j.r has joined

  589. Jeybe has left

  590. Jeybe has joined

  591. Jeybe has left

  592. stpeter has joined

  593. j.r has left

  594. Jeybe has joined

  595. j.r has joined

  596. j.r has left

  597. Tobias has left

  598. j.r has joined

  599. j.r has left

  600. j.r has joined

  601. j.r has left

  602. calvin has left

  603. alexis has joined

  604. j.r has joined

  605. mukt2 has left

  606. mukt2 has joined

  607. j.r has left

  608. adiaholic_ has left

  609. adiaholic_ has joined

  610. j.r has joined

  611. j.r has left

  612. karoshi has left

  613. karoshi has joined

  614. j.r has joined

  615. Tobias has joined

  616. j.r has left

  617. j.r has joined

  618. Nekit has joined

  619. pdurbin has joined

  620. Neustradamus has left

  621. Neustradamus has joined

  622. Dele Olajide has left

  623. Neustradamus has left

  624. pdurbin has left

  625. alexis has left

  626. alexis has joined

  627. xsf has joined

  628. Neustradamus has joined

  629. alexis has left

  630. robertooo has left

  631. werdan has left

  632. Neustradamus has left

  633. Neustradamus has joined

  634. robertooo has joined

  635. Jeybe has left

  636. alexis has joined

  637. Tobias has left

  638. lorddavidiii has left

  639. neshtaxmpp has left

  640. Neustradamus has left

  641. Dele Olajide has joined

  642. Neustradamus has joined

  643. Dele Olajide has left

  644. waqas has left

  645. andy has left

  646. mimi89999 has left

  647. xecks has left

  648. mukt2 has left

  649. lovetox has left

  650. debacle has left

  651. sonny has left

  652. sonny has joined

  653. mukt2 has joined

  654. govanify has left

  655. govanify has joined

  656. karoshi has left

  657. waqas has joined

  658. govanify has left

  659. govanify has joined

  660. stpeter has left

  661. pdurbin has joined

  662. lskdjf has left

  663. calvin has joined

  664. pdurbin has left

  665. lovetox has joined