XSF Discussion - 2020-05-06


  1. pep.

    https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/707/files so we just got this request to add https://mailfence.com to clients.json.

  2. pep.

    Is there any rule against adding a proprietary service to the list

  3. pep.

    I mostly see free software clients in there

  4. jonas’

    AstraChat is proprietary too

  5. pep.

    Quid of adding a row about licenses, and maybe another one about price

  6. jonas’

    I think the requirement should be that it works with any RFC 6120 server

  7. jonas’

    otherwise it is more of a case for https://xmpp.org/uses/

  8. Ge0rG

    I'm with jonas’ here

  9. pep.

    I don't disagree, but on what grounds

  10. Ge0rG

    that page doesn't mention "jabber" or "xmpp", and I don't see where you could download an xmpp client tthere

  11. jonas’

    https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/355 relevant

  12. pep.

    (it's definitely an XMPP service and not a client, since they recommend clients to connect)

  13. jonas’

    if it’s not a client, it’s not fit for clients.json, simple as that

  14. pep.

    I'll reply that

  15. jonas’

    if it’s a service, it’s better suited for uses.html

  16. Ge0rG

    and we don't have a list of hosted services, do we?

  17. jonas’

    no we don’t

  18. Ge0rG

    we used to have one, but then it was replaced by links to two lists of lists.

  19. Ge0rG

    we used to have one, but then it was replaced by a list of server lists.

  20. pep.

    Ah wait,

  21. pep.

    https://kb.mailfence.com/kb/could-you-please-suggest-any-local-client-for-xmpp-connection-for-mailfence-group-chat/

  22. pep.

    So I guess they do have a web client

  23. pep.

    https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html the following could actually be confusing: > See something missing? Any list of XMPP servers, clients or libraries will, due to the dynamic and evolving nature of the XMPP market, be out of date almost as soon as it’s published. If you spot mistakes, errors or omissions in the table below, please submit a pull request!

  24. pep.

    "XMPP market", lol

  25. pep.

    Confusing as in, random users updating that list

  26. pep.

    https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/708 somebody to review this?

  27. Zash

    looks simple enough

  28. pep.

    Zash, yeah, just not to be accused of merging without review :p

  29. pep.

    Thanks jonas’

  30. pep.

    Is the docker thing back again btw? Are containers updated automatically now?

  31. jonas’

    no

  32. jonas’

    but I’ll do it for you if you ping me

  33. pep.

    okay

  34. pep.

    I can't login on the docker hub thing anymore for reasons

  35. pep.

    Well I can but I get a blank page

  36. jonas’

    just docker hub things

  37. pep.

    yeah..

  38. flow

    - LC for XEP-0280 expired without feedback. I think there was a lot of (unaddressed) LC feedback to xep280, just not for this LC. I am not sure if LC'ing xep280 again and again is what is required to move this XEP…

  39. flow

    (context: council@)

  40. Zash

    Has anyone by any chance written down a summary of that feedback?

  41. flow

    of course not, at least I am not aware of any. if only we had a way to tag mails on standards@ to make the information there easier accessible

  42. Zash

    I read "if only we had a way to nag standards@" :D

  43. Ge0rG

    Zash: that's what I do all the time!

  44. tom__

    How long do any of you suppose it will take before XEP-0384 moves on to draft status?

  45. moparisthebest

    somewhere between a year and never probably, why does the status matter?

  46. tom__

    I was just asking because I've been in mucs trying to use it

  47. tom__

    And a lot of people on Gajim or Profanity have tons of problems with it

  48. tom__

    Like silently dropping messages

  49. pep.

    To use omemo:1? Does anybody actually implement this?

  50. pep.

    Ah the previous one

  51. tom__

    And some people requesting that I allow them subscription access despite me not knowing them just so they can kick their client into having omemo work

  52. pep.

    tom__, well it's recently been updated, so maybe watch out for this

  53. tom__

    Which I refuse to do because I don't want to share things like presence data and geocords with everyone

  54. tom__

    » [13:48:25] <pep.> To use omemo:1? Does anybody actually implement this? » I have never seen an implementation of that

  55. lovetox

    tom__, without presence subscription it will always work not optimal and you will have problems

  56. lovetox

    this has nothing to do with the state of the XEP

  57. lovetox

    solution is, dont use omemo with contacts not in your roster

  58. Zash

    Don't clients make the OMEMO key stuff public these days, when their server supports that?

  59. Zash

    That was a major driver for deployment of such server capabilities, since it makes OMEMO in groupchats with non-contacts easier.

  60. tom__

    How can i ensure my server has deployed those server capabilities?

  61. tom__

    Are you talking about pubsub?

  62. Zash

    Update. Yes, PEP specifically.

  63. Zash

    Stuff described in either XEP-0222 or 0223 IIRC

  64. tom__

    So if my server already implements PEP, is there anything on my side left to do?

  65. Zash

    "PEP" in its basic version doesn't support this.

  66. Zash

    Pretty sure recent versions of Prosody and ejabberd both include more extended PEP support tho.

  67. lovetox

    tom__, there are server modules who make the omemo public key node public

  68. lovetox

    or server configuration options

  69. lovetox

    ask in the server support rooms

  70. Zash

    But this also applies to everyone else in the group chat.

  71. lovetox

    but is this not problematic in some instances?

  72. lovetox

    say i connect via TOR probably because i want anonymity

  73. Link Mauve

    lovetox, some people argue that it makes deanonymising much easier.

  74. lovetox

    but then my key identifys me

  75. Link Mauve

    Since if nick1 in room1 and nick2 in room2 share the same OMEMO keys, they’re the same person.

  76. Zash

    OMEMO in MUC only works if you know everyones JIDs, so where's the concern?

  77. lovetox

    A JID is not necessarily something that identifies you

  78. Zash

    I assume that you aren's sharing OMEMO keys across accounts

  79. lovetox

    but i guess there is no client which lets you use omemo keys for more than one jid

  80. tom__

    It would be useful if there was an automated test for that

  81. tom__

    So users could know if their host is to blame or a buggy client

  82. Zash

    Doesn't https://compliance.conversations.im/test/xep0384/ do precisely that?