rionHow to become an author of xep-0371? Seems like the original author doesn't care about the future of the xep.
AlexReminder for those who have not reapplied yet:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q2_2020
LNJhas joined
Holgerhttps://xmpp.org/community/membership.html#application talks about "the first two weeks of January, April, July, and October", has this changed or are things just delayed (this time)?
Alexlooks like we need to update the webpage. dates have slipped many years ago
HolgerAh :-)
jonas’rion, ask council :)
karoshihas left
karoshihas joined
karoshihas left
karoshihas joined
lovetoxhas joined
Jeybehas left
Jeybehas joined
karoshihas left
lovetoxhas left
archas left
archas joined
debaclehas joined
LNJhas left
LNJhas joined
adiaholic_has left
karoshihas joined
Jeybehas left
Andrzejhas left
Jeybehas joined
Andrzejhas joined
adiaholic_has joined
lovetoxhas joined
Half-Shothas left
Half-Shothas joined
karoshihas left
karoshihas joined
Andrzejhas left
Andrzejhas joined
Andrzejhas left
Andrzejhas joined
adiaholic_has left
adiaholic_has joined
Andrzejhas left
Andrzejhas joined
Andrzejhas left
Andrzejhas joined
mukt2has joined
lovetoxhas left
mukt2has left
xsfhas left
karoshihas left
APachhas left
APachhas joined
!XSF_Martinhas left
!XSF_Martinhas joined
paulhas left
paulhas joined
karoshihas joined
eevvoorhas joined
karoshihas left
karoshihas joined
pdurbinhas left
karoshihas left
karoshihas joined
Andrzejhas left
Andrzejhas joined
goffihas joined
archas left
archas joined
goffihas left
Yagizahas left
Yagizahas joined
Yagizahas left
Yagizahas joined
govanifyhas left
govanifyhas joined
govanifyhas left
govanifyhas joined
calvinhas joined
nycohas joined
mukt2has joined
nycohas left
nycohas joined
Jeybehas left
Jeybehas joined
mukt2has left
Jeybehas left
Jeybehas joined
xeckshas left
xeckshas joined
karoshihas left
karoshihas joined
Jeybehas left
goffihas joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
goffihas left
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
MattJSorry, forgot I can't make the meeting today
pep.:)
ralphmhas left
ralphmhas joined
pep.!
pep.It's time
pep.ralphm, Guus, Seve
Guuso/
Guusuhoh
pep.hmm.
pdurbinhas joined
pep.I don't really want to skip this one
SeveHey
pep.woo
pep.Let's start and hope it'll summon ralphm
pep.1. Agenda
pep.- Add emus to commteam
pep.I also have an item to add re ISOC foundation
pep.Anything else?
Guuswhat's the status on that adopt-a-char issue?
Guusare we still blocked on figuring out how to vote?
Guusif so, I'd like to see if we can get that oving.
Guus*moving
SeveI haven't heard any news on this, personally.
pep.Last time I checked that was up to Flow. I think he meant to have a look at updating memberbot
Seve(No items from me)
Guus(to be added to agenda instead of disccussed right now)
pep.right
pep.2. Add emus to commteam
SeveHe has been taking care of the newsletter, I think it would help the process. I'm +1
pep.It was mentioned this week in their channel. emus has been helping for some time now with the newsletter
pep.Seve, let's wait for the motion :p
GuusWho's actually the team lead for comm?
Guusnyco?
pep.I'm not entirely sure, but the question was indirectly raised by JC
SeveGuus, the commteam is a bit "afk" lately (I'm included there)
pep.emus asking for people to publish things on social media
Guushttps://xmpp.org/about/xsf/comm-team.html
Ge0rGWasn't there an attempt to hire a social-media contractor?
pep.And JC wondering if he should give him access (hence asking team membership)
pep.Ge0rG, it's in the works yes
pep.I'll update on that in commitments
GuusIn any case, I'm happy to have emus added.
Guusis JC asking for him to be added, or is he asking himself? 🙂
pep.emus is asking, from my PoV JC just prompted the discussion
Guusmotions that Edward 'emus' Maurer is to be added to the Commteam workteam.
pep.+1
Seve+1
Guus+
Guusshees
Guus+1
Guussorry 🙂
pep.Ok. 3 +1s ! emus congrats
GuusThanks for stepping up, emus !
Seveemus, woo :)
nyco...
pep.nyco, ?
GuusDoes commteam have access to the site?
Guusas in, first task: add yourself to the website in the new role? 🙂
Guus(for which we probably need iteam to add him in the correct github team?)
GuusMattJ, in case you read back notifications, can you facilitate that?
pep.As a note, I'd like us to figure out how to have teams handle that themselves. I'm curious why we need board here
nycoWat
nycoWho soeaks where?
pep.nyco, I'm curious if you have any comment, I'd like to hear them
nycoPing
Guuspep. probably mandated in the bylaws. We can go through them out-of-band if you want.
nycohi
Guusfor now, let's move on 🙂
pep.3. ISOC Foundation grant
nycosoryr to interrupt, sometimes I receive some notifications from I don't know where nor I don't know who, but no always
pep.The isoc foundation is offering a grant that non-profits can apply to in order to help with the current situation (covid)
pep.The application period is until the 17th though, so pretty quick. I personally don't have many ideas but if anybody is interested in suggesting something I'd like board to consider it before the deadline
GuusWe briefly discussed this yesterday (day before yesterday maybe?). I do like attracting a grant like this, but a) it's short notice, and b) I'm unsure if we'd qualify for this particular one.
GuusIf someone has a good idea to move this forward, I'm all ears though.
pep.I'm also unsure, but if anybody is willing to take up on the challenge I think we should hear it yeah
GuusThe ISOC offered grand discussion did trigger an idea with me. Should the XSF aim to have more of a team that chases down grants like these, and have proposal drafts available to answer? We might even want to consider hiring people to do this - basically have them pay for themselves?
Guusgrand/grant
GuusNot sure exactly what this should look like, but it might be worth entertaining the thought.
pep.hmm, why not. I'm open for discussion
Guuslet's ponder, and revisits in a next meeting?
govanifyhas left
govanifyhas joined
pep.In the meantime I'll send an email regarding this specific grant
pep.to members@
Guusok, tx
pep.That does imply board is willing to give their approval before the 17th though, right
SeveFor this specific case though, I'm out of ideas. I hardly see how could we present something for that grant, but it will be great to hear any ideas from that mail
Guuspep. I don't think that that's implied.
Guusit's implied that board will at least see what comes out of it 🙂
pep.I mean, discuss it, not approve it
Guusright
SeveOf course
pep.Okay
pep.4. Adopt a character
pep.As mentioned above I don't think there is much progress since last time, but that's not up to me
GuusI'd just like to know where we are on this, and, if board needs to do something to move this along?
Guusflow ?
pep.I'm happy to leave this with flow for the time being
SeveWe can contact him out of this meeting and come back with an update. Then decide.
Guussure
pep.Though an update would be nice
pep.5. Commitments
pep.Regarding the marketing person, MattJ and I have had a chat with her, we've tried to state what we'd be expecting of a marketing/comms person and it seems she had a bit more clue compared to when she joined the meeting :)
eevvoorhas left
Guuswhere does that leave the effort?
pdurbinhas left
pep.She said she'd send us a sketch of what she thinks we can do, alongside with her rates
pep.(is that the word?)
Sevelistens
Guusthat's _a_ word - unsure which one you're talking about 🙂
pep.So I'm waiting on this at the moment
pep."rates", money things
Guusyeah, fair enough. I usually use the singular 'rate' - but none of us are native speakers so we're forgiven 🙂
Seve:D
GuusAnyway, good news that we've engaged
pep.That's it from me.
SeveLooking forward for the sketch
pep.6. AOB?
SeveNone here
Guusnone here
jonas’none here
pep.:)
pep.Close then!
pep.I'll send minutes later
GuusNext week is ascension day
Guusis that reason to postpone a meeting?
Guusor shall we simply see who turns up?
pep.Not for me
SeveWohoo, thank you pep.
Guuswe might make a family day out of it, unsure yet.
GuusI'm happy to just see who turns up
SeveMe too
Guus(at the meeting, not the family day)
pep.wofs
SeveOh..
pep.:D
pep.wfs*
pep.wfm.
pep.hard to type on a keyboard
Guusok +1w then
pep.Thanks all
Guusthanks!
Seve🙌
flowre the adopt-a-character and members opinion poll: I am (more or less) blocked on https://github.com/andrewcmyers/civs/issues/33
flowif CIVS would offer an option to generate N vote URLs then we could let every member draw exactly one URL from membersbot
flow(of course this needs adjustment to membersbot, but this should be trivial)
flowso I guess +1 the issue pls, and maybe we have an perl hacker amoungst us who wants to add that feature to CIVS
GuusOk. If, in the interest of time, we want to move without using CIVS, I'd be fine with that.
GuusIf we end up postponing this indefinitely only to be able to test-drive CIVS, that kind of defeats the purpose
GuusNot that I'm in a hurry
flowGuus, well if there is a tool that fits the(/my) requirements I would happily use it
flow+ I really like to use it as trial run for condorcet voting and allow members a first impression of it
GuusI think your requirements are higher than the requirements 🙂
Guussure, I'm not opposing that
Andrzejhas left
GuusJust want to make sure you don't feel obliged to chase down a dependency on our account.
flowI kinda could go with a system that does no condorcet voting, but I could not find a sensible one
emusGoodday guys 👋
Happy to join the team.
Sorry, I missed the meeting 😫
Wojtekhas joined
pep.fwiw I'm not against testing Condorcet for this "non-essential" task
pep.(I also don't care really much about the character personally, sorry but not sorry)
adiaholic_has left
flowpep., no need to apologize, you are entitled to your own opinion
govanifyhas left
flow(in this case)
flow;)
govanifyhas joined
adiaholic_has joined
govanifyhas left
govanifyhas joined
archas left
archas joined
adiaholic_has left
adiaholic_has joined
govanifyhas left
govanifyhas joined
karoshihas left
karoshihas joined
adiaholic_has left
adiaholic_has joined
pep.nyco, btw, still happy to hear your comments if you have any, here or in private
nycoAbout ?
pep.Your messages above happened while we were talking about emus
pep.Since you're also commteam I thought it might have been related
archas left
govanifyhas left
archas joined
govanifyhas joined
adiaholic_has left
adiaholic_has joined
calvinhas left
dwdhas left
andyhas left
andyhas joined
dwdhas joined
MattJemus, what's your Github username?
MattJ(and congrats :) )
lovetoxhas joined
emusMattJ: Thanks, just check the recent drafts for the XMPP Newsletter, Im was the creator, echolon
wait
ZashThe local server could not connect to xmpp.org.
Jeybehas left
Jeybehas joined
ZashFrom "connection refused" I would guess that it either failed to look up the SRV records and tried to connect to the wrong port, or that there's a local firewall that blocks connections to the port xmpp.org uses.
xnamedI think the second possibility
xnamedthank you Zash
Wojtekhas left
Jeybehas left
Jeybehas joined
adiaholic_has left
xeckshas left
xeckshas joined
adiaholic_has joined
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
murabitohas joined
Andrzejhas left
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
murabitohas left
murabitohas joined
neshtaxmpphas joined
krauqhas left
krauqhas joined
DebXWoodyhas left
DebXWoodyhas joined
DebXWoodyhas left
DebXWoodyhas joined
adiaholic_has left
DebXWoodyhas left
DebXWoodyhas joined
DebXWoodyhas left
Wojtekhas joined
DebXWoodyhas joined
DebXWoodyhas left
DebXWoodyhas joined
flowI always think it would be nice if the textual error message would include the invovled tcp 4-tuple
flowI always think it would be nice if the textual error message would include the involved tcp 4-tuple
ZashHmm
DebXWoodyhas left
Ge0rGnow is a good time to point out that the text element of stream errors is not supposed to be user-understandable
ZashI'm not sure we should shove too many details at users, but it can be useful.
flowmy counter argument is always that users who do not understand it could at least give the text to their admin
ZashWhen will I find the time and energy to write that Extended S2S Error Info XEP?
DebXWoodyhas joined
flowbecause there is a reason why some UIs just tell the user that "something bad happened, try again later"
Ge0rGThe <error/> element: MAY contain a <text/> child element containing XML character data that describes the error in more detail
flowso you usually want to display this to the user, with an extra button that leads to a detailed error report
flowthat he/she is not expected ot understand
DebXWoodyhas left
xsfhas joined
ZashWhile we have that single <text> element, we could at least try to have the beginning of it easily understandable, and then go into more details.
DebXWoodyhas joined
flow I would totally support adding a "dump-user-text" element
flowbut the existing <text/> should probably contain as much as details as possible
adiaholic_has joined
DebXWoodyhas left
flowerr dumb-user-text
j.rhas left
DebXWoodyhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
Ge0rGfor dumb-user-text all you need is a set of strings for all well-known conditions
j.rhas joined
ZashIf they're well-known conditions, wouldn't conditions be better?
flowbut yes, why not, we certainly will end up with a textual escape hatch
adiaholic_has left
adiaholic_has joined
DebXWoodyhas joined
Shellhas left
Shellhas joined
Zashwe already have that
flowgreat, I like hatches. but not the one from lost
adiaholic_has left
adiaholic_has joined
xnamedI remember had certificate expired error long ago but this time it's something else
DebXWoodyhas left
xnamedI think good idea to add details
DebXWoodyhas joined
pep.> flow> my counter argument is always that users who do not understand it could at least give the text to their admin
I agree. For the 5% that do send things to their admin, it's good when they have more than "it doesn't work"
Mikaelahas left
southerntofuhas left
southerntofuhas joined
Link MauveThe admin can usually correlate the timestamp with a particular s2s attempt in their debug logs.
DebXWoodyhas left
Link MauveBut +1 for more understandable errors.
pep.Maybe the admin is not that admin
Link MauveIt’s a good thing for users who are their own admin too. :)
Ge0rGLink Mauve: "yesterday I couldn't talk to Jack"
Ge0rGAnd then you have 2GB of server logs and they have three Jacks on the roster
xnamedWhat if the admin like me doesn't have access to the debug logs?
pep.Compared to yesterday I got a weird message when talking to Jack: "something something error 1235"
DebXWoodyhas joined
ZashI'm still kinda proud of the new certificate related s2s errors in Prosody (trunk)
Link Mauvexnamed, uh, then you can’t debug.
Ge0rGI sometimes get screenshots from users, even for errors that were toast messages.
Ge0rGThey manage to make a shot of their mobile screen in the 1 or 2 seconds that the toast is visible
DebXWoodyhas left
Ge0rGZash: a pity that I can't see them.
Zashxnamed, with my iteam hat on, I see no trace of any connection to xmpp.org from that server.
DebXWoodyhas joined
ZashGe0rG, not?
j.rhas left
Ge0rGZash: I'm not checking certificates
j.rhas joined
Ge0rGBut maybe one day I could run through all domains from my users' rosters and s2s ping them to collect certificate validity data and to be able to decide whether to enforce certificates after that.
ZashI hope we can improve DNS and TCP related errors too
ZashCurrently you get e.g.
> Server-to-server connection failed: unable to resolve service
or
> Server-to-server connection failed: connection refused
DebXWoodyhas left
Ge0rGAnd some clients are only wide enough to show "Server-to-server connection fa..."
ZashMaybe someone could improve that as well
ZashCompressed jargon doesn't feel like the solution, especially not if we want more details in there.