pep.The isoc foundation is offering a grant that non-profits can apply to in order to help with the current situation (covid)
pep.The application period is until the 17th though, so pretty quick. I personally don't have many ideas but if anybody is interested in suggesting something I'd like board to consider it before the deadline
GuusWe briefly discussed this yesterday (day before yesterday maybe?). I do like attracting a grant like this, but a) it's short notice, and b) I'm unsure if we'd qualify for this particular one.
GuusIf someone has a good idea to move this forward, I'm all ears though.
pep.I'm also unsure, but if anybody is willing to take up on the challenge I think we should hear it yeah
GuusThe ISOC offered grand discussion did trigger an idea with me. Should the XSF aim to have more of a team that chases down grants like these, and have proposal drafts available to answer? We might even want to consider hiring people to do this - basically have them pay for themselves?
GuusNot sure exactly what this should look like, but it might be worth entertaining the thought.
pep.hmm, why not. I'm open for discussion
Guuslet's ponder, and revisits in a next meeting?
pep.In the meantime I'll send an email regarding this specific grant
pep.That does imply board is willing to give their approval before the 17th though, right
SeveFor this specific case though, I'm out of ideas. I hardly see how could we present something for that grant, but it will be great to hear any ideas from that mail
Guuspep. I don't think that that's implied.
Guusit's implied that board will at least see what comes out of it 🙂
pep.I mean, discuss it, not approve it
pep.4. Adopt a character
pep.As mentioned above I don't think there is much progress since last time, but that's not up to me
GuusI'd just like to know where we are on this, and, if board needs to do something to move this along?
pep.I'm happy to leave this with flow for the time being
SeveWe can contact him out of this meeting and come back with an update. Then decide.
pep.Though an update would be nice
pep.Regarding the marketing person, MattJ and I have had a chat with her, we've tried to state what we'd be expecting of a marketing/comms person and it seems she had a bit more clue compared to when she joined the meeting :)
Guuswhere does that leave the effort?
pep.She said she'd send us a sketch of what she thinks we can do, alongside with her rates
pep.(is that the word?)
Guusthat's _a_ word - unsure which one you're talking about 🙂
pep.So I'm waiting on this at the moment
pep."rates", money things
Guusyeah, fair enough. I usually use the singular 'rate' - but none of us are native speakers so we're forgiven 🙂
GuusAnyway, good news that we've engaged
pep.That's it from me.
SeveLooking forward for the sketch
pep.I'll send minutes later
GuusNext week is ascension day
Guusis that reason to postpone a meeting?
Guusor shall we simply see who turns up?
pep.Not for me
SeveWohoo, thank you pep.
Guuswe might make a family day out of it, unsure yet.
GuusI'm happy to just see who turns up
Guus(at the meeting, not the family day)
pep.hard to type on a keyboard
Guusok +1w then
flowre the adopt-a-character and members opinion poll: I am (more or less) blocked on https://github.com/andrewcmyers/civs/issues/33
flowif CIVS would offer an option to generate N vote URLs then we could let every member draw exactly one URL from membersbot
flow(of course this needs adjustment to membersbot, but this should be trivial)
flowso I guess +1 the issue pls, and maybe we have an perl hacker amoungst us who wants to add that feature to CIVS
GuusOk. If, in the interest of time, we want to move without using CIVS, I'd be fine with that.
GuusIf we end up postponing this indefinitely only to be able to test-drive CIVS, that kind of defeats the purpose
GuusNot that I'm in a hurry
flowGuus, well if there is a tool that fits the(/my) requirements I would happily use it
flow+ I really like to use it as trial run for condorcet voting and allow members a first impression of it
GuusI think your requirements are higher than the requirements 🙂
Guussure, I'm not opposing that
GuusJust want to make sure you don't feel obliged to chase down a dependency on our account.
flowI kinda could go with a system that does no condorcet voting, but I could not find a sensible one
emusGoodday guys 👋
Happy to join the team.
Sorry, I missed the meeting 😫
pep.fwiw I'm not against testing Condorcet for this "non-essential" task
pep.(I also don't care really much about the character personally, sorry but not sorry)
flowpep., no need to apologize, you are entitled to your own opinion
flow(in this case)
pep.nyco, btw, still happy to hear your comments if you have any, here or in private
pep.Your messages above happened while we were talking about emus
pep.Since you're also commteam I thought it might have been related
MattJemus, what's your Github username?
MattJ(and congrats :) )
emusMattJ: Thanks, just check the recent drafts for the XMPP Newsletter, Im was the creator, echolon
ZashThe local server could not connect to xmpp.org.
ZashFrom "connection refused" I would guess that it either failed to look up the SRV records and tried to connect to the wrong port, or that there's a local firewall that blocks connections to the port xmpp.org uses.
xnamedI think the second possibility
xnamedthank you Zash
flowI always think it would be nice if the textual error message would include the invovled tcp 4-tuple✎
flowI always think it would be nice if the textual error message would include the involved tcp 4-tuple ✏
Ge0rGnow is a good time to point out that the text element of stream errors is not supposed to be user-understandable
ZashI'm not sure we should shove too many details at users, but it can be useful.
flowmy counter argument is always that users who do not understand it could at least give the text to their admin
ZashWhen will I find the time and energy to write that Extended S2S Error Info XEP?
flowbecause there is a reason why some UIs just tell the user that "something bad happened, try again later"
Ge0rGThe <error/> element: MAY contain a <text/> child element containing XML character data that describes the error in more detail
flowso you usually want to display this to the user, with an extra button that leads to a detailed error report
flowthat he/she is not expected ot understand
ZashWhile we have that single <text> element, we could at least try to have the beginning of it easily understandable, and then go into more details.
flow I would totally support adding a "dump-user-text" element
flowbut the existing <text/> should probably contain as much as details as possible
Ge0rGfor dumb-user-text all you need is a set of strings for all well-known conditions
ZashIf they're well-known conditions, wouldn't conditions be better?
flowbut yes, why not, we certainly will end up with a textual escape hatch
Zashwe already have that
flowgreat, I like hatches. but not the one from lost
xnamedI remember had certificate expired error long ago but this time it's something else
xnamedI think good idea to add details
pep.> flow> my counter argument is always that users who do not understand it could at least give the text to their admin
I agree. For the 5% that do send things to their admin, it's good when they have more than "it doesn't work"
Link MauveThe admin can usually correlate the timestamp with a particular s2s attempt in their debug logs.
Link MauveBut +1 for more understandable errors.
pep.Maybe the admin is not that admin
Link MauveIt’s a good thing for users who are their own admin too. :)
Ge0rGLink Mauve: "yesterday I couldn't talk to Jack"
Ge0rGAnd then you have 2GB of server logs and they have three Jacks on the roster
xnamedWhat if the admin like me doesn't have access to the debug logs?
pep.Compared to yesterday I got a weird message when talking to Jack: "something something error 1235"
ZashI'm still kinda proud of the new certificate related s2s errors in Prosody (trunk)
Link Mauvexnamed, uh, then you can’t debug.
Ge0rGI sometimes get screenshots from users, even for errors that were toast messages.
Ge0rGThey manage to make a shot of their mobile screen in the 1 or 2 seconds that the toast is visible
Ge0rGZash: a pity that I can't see them.
Zashxnamed, with my iteam hat on, I see no trace of any connection to xmpp.org from that server.
Ge0rGZash: I'm not checking certificates
Ge0rGBut maybe one day I could run through all domains from my users' rosters and s2s ping them to collect certificate validity data and to be able to decide whether to enforce certificates after that.
ZashI hope we can improve DNS and TCP related errors too
ZashCurrently you get e.g.
> Server-to-server connection failed: unable to resolve service
> Server-to-server connection failed: connection refused
Ge0rGAnd some clients are only wide enough to show "Server-to-server connection fa..."
ZashMaybe someone could improve that as well
ZashCompressed jargon doesn't feel like the solution, especially not if we want more details in there.