XSF Discussion - 2020-05-23

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  10. moparisthebest queen_tilfaar: this server does federate, what do you mean
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  200. pep. Anybody got clues on how xsf/registrar works?
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  206. pep. Figured it out! Don't touch it. Update the XEP
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  217. emus Hi MattJ, have you found some time to check about the access?
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  228. rion https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/950
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  245. queen_tilfaar > queen_tilfaar: this server does federate, what do you mean Alright let's test this. Let's see if this message goes through
  246. queen_tilfaar Nope can't do I have to enable this server exclusive account to chat
  247. queen_tilfaar I hope this is a bug
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  252. Link Mauve Hi, is there any prior work to using 0059 in 0004 data forms?
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  254. Zash 0004 has its own pagination thing iirc?
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  262. larma You can do pagination in 0050 by just having an option "Next" which loads a new form with the next page. I am pretty certain I've seen that somewhere already.
  263. Link Mauve Zash, I can’t find that.
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  265. Zash Link Mauve, probably confusing it with the <reported> stuff then
  266. Link Mauve But yes, <reported/> is what I’d like to have 0059 for.
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  269. lovetox larma, thats not pagination
  270. lovetox thats the next command stage in a multi stage flow
  271. lovetox of course you could misuse this as pagination
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  273. lovetox but it was not intended that way
  274. lovetox and it would break every adhoc command dialog
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  276. flow Link Mauve, xep141
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  281. Link Mauve flow, hmm, that’s not exactly my usecase: imagine I retrieve a <reported/> with a huge lot of items, which doesn’t fit in one stanza, how can I page through them similarly to in 0055 results?
  282. larma lovetox, I guess you misunderstood. in ad-hoc if server sends a form where you need to pick one entry from a list, there was one entry "<previous>", one entry "<next>" and about 20 actual entries. If I pick any of the 20 actual entries and then execute next I'd do certain action, if I pick "<next>"/"<previous>" entry and execute next I'll get another form. I think Gajim was handling this perfectly fine and I don't see why that would be misuse or break typical ad-hoc implementations. It obvious was terrible UX, but that's something you get used to when using ad-hoc
  283. flow Link Mauve, is this pure xep4 or with ad-hoc?
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  290. Link Mauve flow, with ad-hoc.
  291. Link Mauve (How is it different?)
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  294. lovetox larma, in Adhoc "Next" means always next stae
  295. lovetox larma, in Adhoc "Next" means always next stage
  296. lovetox there is no next page, and there is no difference between execute and next
  297. flow Link Mauve, I wonder, like lovetox, if you could then use stages
  298. flow ad-hoc command stages that is
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  301. lovetox flow thats bad, he wants to return a huge list
  302. flow I am not sure if xep4+rsm is a good idea
  303. flow lovetox, why is it bad?
  304. Link Mauve So, my usecase is that a user wants to list what they have uploaded using 0363, ignoring all usecases where the deployment might have already deleted some or whatever.
  305. lovetox because thats not how adhoc works, you dont display pags of data in different stages
  306. Link Mauve To then implement e.g. a photo album, or the ability to delete one of these files.
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  309. flow Link Mauve, maybe grouplist the result list items in multiple stages works
  310. Link Mauve That sounds like a hack. :/
  311. flow lovetox, so you saying it can't be done with ad-hoc commands?
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  314. flow Link Mauve, not sure, but that use case sure is worth considering
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  320. flow Link Mauve, I assume an "upload" is modelled as multiple fields? or are multiple uploads the values of a single field?
  321. Link Mauve flow, I was thinking of one item per file, with multiple fields as the implementation sees fit.
  322. Link Mauve (And has available.)
  323. flow ahh right xep4 has <item/>
  324. Zash Could you model it as a disco#items list on a special node + ad-hoc command on each node?
  325. flow I wonder if there is prior art in user search
  326. flow surely user search could return a large result set
  327. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0055.html ^F 0059 → no hits
  328. Link Mauve Zash, 0059 ^F 0055 though describes the protocol.
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  330. Zash Haha
  331. Zash Backwards
  332. Link Mauve Feel free to migrate it to 0055 if you care enough. :p
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  334. flow well then it may be worth specifying something like rsm for xep4, which should be negoiatable, as in requestor adds flag to request, responder replies with rsm-is xep4 response
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  336. Link Mauve Zash, so in your proposal, a client would disco#items like in XEP-0135, and do ad-hoc commands there?
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  338. Link Mauve That sounds bad if e.g. you want to select many files and delete them at once.
  339. Link Mauve flow, yup.
  340. flow Zash, that eventually only shifts the large result set problematic from xep4 to xep30, no?
  341. Zash Hmmmmm
  342. flow I mean, i really like to see rsm disco going
  343. Link Mauve flow, RSM does specify itself for both 0055 and 0030.
  344. flow I think I even have a commit or even made a pr in that regard
  345. Link Mauve (Backwards again, I guess.)
  346. Zash Link Mauve: It would move that into the client and make it less efficient to batch-delete stuff.
  347. Link Mauve Only one of the existing four deferred XEPs for file management deals with deletion, and it does it only for deletion notifications (XEP-0214).
  348. lovetox larma, flow : i was wrong, yes pagination is ok if the adhoc command does only list things
  349. flow Link Mauve, ahh right
  350. lovetox problem is what Link Mauve wants is, list things, then select things, then delete things
  351. lovetox so it would be exceptionally bad, if you have to page through 1000 items, only to come to the last command stage
  352. lovetox where you finally can delete them
  353. flow lovetox, maybe you can have an optional field where you select the items to delete that are currently displayed?
  354. flow and then 'next' not only shows the next page, but deletes the items you have selected
  355. flow and then 'next' not only shows the next page, but deletes the items you have selected (if any)
  356. Zash Select action first, page through list and select items, finalize?
  357. Zash Or select items first, then action?
  358. Zash 🤷️
  359. lovetox no i just reread 0050
  360. lovetox even that is possible
  361. lovetox a stage can have a next action and a complete action
  362. lovetox so the only not nice thing now is, that a generic adhoc UI would not be able to display all items on the same page
  363. lovetox and thus unable to provide any search/sort capabilities
  364. Zash You could probably do that over ad-hoc as well, but it'd probably be very awkward
  365. larma https://larma.de:5281/upload/l6Awnt59kxp4xga9/just_pick_next.png
  366. lovetox larma, i was wrong, a stage can have "next" and "complete" buttons
  367. lovetox so you can say, delete, and next page
  368. lovetox no need for that workaround
  369. larma I am not saying that there is no better way, but this is what I've seen before, and it certainly does work
  370. larma and probably is compatible with every client
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  372. larma even those not implementing the action to move to previous page
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  396. pep. Is there anything about "A hidden field named FORM_TYPE" saying it's special?
  397. pep. There was discussions about that not so long ago right?
  398. Zash Yes
  399. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0068.html
  400. pep. Thanks
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  442. Link Mauve So, in BOSH, what should happen on stream error?
  443. Link Mauve I tried to log in with an invalid password, received <body sid="507521e3-75ea-47e6-af62-8e746ea8d2d0" xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/httpbind" xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"><failure xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"><not-authorized/><text>The response provided by the client doesn&apos;t match the one we calculated.</text></failure></body>
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  449. Zash Wait, that's not a stream error
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  451. Zash That's a SASL error. Those are not fatal, you're free to try again.
  452. Link Mauve Oh, I see.
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