XSF Discussion - 2020-05-23

  1. moparisthebest

    queen_tilfaar: this server does federate, what do you mean

  2. pep.

    Anybody got clues on how xsf/registrar works?

  3. pep.

    Figured it out! Don't touch it. Update the XEP

  4. emus

    Hi MattJ, have you found some time to check about the access?

  5. rion


  6. queen_tilfaar

    > queen_tilfaar: this server does federate, what do you mean Alright let's test this. Let's see if this message goes through

  7. queen_tilfaar

    Nope can't do I have to enable this server exclusive account to chat

  8. queen_tilfaar

    I hope this is a bug

  9. Link Mauve

    Hi, is there any prior work to using 0059 in 0004 data forms?

  10. Zash

    0004 has its own pagination thing iirc?

  11. larma

    You can do pagination in 0050 by just having an option "Next" which loads a new form with the next page. I am pretty certain I've seen that somewhere already.

  12. Link Mauve

    Zash, I can’t find that.

  13. Zash

    Link Mauve, probably confusing it with the <reported> stuff then

  14. Link Mauve

    But yes, <reported/> is what I’d like to have 0059 for.

  15. lovetox

    larma, thats not pagination

  16. lovetox

    thats the next command stage in a multi stage flow

  17. lovetox

    of course you could misuse this as pagination

  18. lovetox

    but it was not intended that way

  19. lovetox

    and it would break every adhoc command dialog

  20. flow

    Link Mauve, xep141

  21. Link Mauve

    flow, hmm, that’s not exactly my usecase: imagine I retrieve a <reported/> with a huge lot of items, which doesn’t fit in one stanza, how can I page through them similarly to in 0055 results?

  22. larma

    lovetox, I guess you misunderstood. in ad-hoc if server sends a form where you need to pick one entry from a list, there was one entry "<previous>", one entry "<next>" and about 20 actual entries. If I pick any of the 20 actual entries and then execute next I'd do certain action, if I pick "<next>"/"<previous>" entry and execute next I'll get another form. I think Gajim was handling this perfectly fine and I don't see why that would be misuse or break typical ad-hoc implementations. It obvious was terrible UX, but that's something you get used to when using ad-hoc

  23. flow

    Link Mauve, is this pure xep4 or with ad-hoc?

  24. Link Mauve

    flow, with ad-hoc.

  25. Link Mauve

    (How is it different?)

  26. lovetox

    larma, in Adhoc "Next" means always next stae

  27. lovetox

    larma, in Adhoc "Next" means always next stage

  28. lovetox

    there is no next page, and there is no difference between execute and next

  29. flow

    Link Mauve, I wonder, like lovetox, if you could then use stages

  30. flow

    ad-hoc command stages that is

  31. lovetox

    flow thats bad, he wants to return a huge list

  32. flow

    I am not sure if xep4+rsm is a good idea

  33. flow

    lovetox, why is it bad?

  34. Link Mauve

    So, my usecase is that a user wants to list what they have uploaded using 0363, ignoring all usecases where the deployment might have already deleted some or whatever.

  35. lovetox

    because thats not how adhoc works, you dont display pags of data in different stages

  36. Link Mauve

    To then implement e.g. a photo album, or the ability to delete one of these files.

  37. flow

    Link Mauve, maybe grouplist the result list items in multiple stages works

  38. Link Mauve

    That sounds like a hack. :/

  39. flow

    lovetox, so you saying it can't be done with ad-hoc commands?

  40. flow

    Link Mauve, not sure, but that use case sure is worth considering

  41. flow

    Link Mauve, I assume an "upload" is modelled as multiple fields? or are multiple uploads the values of a single field?

  42. Link Mauve

    flow, I was thinking of one item per file, with multiple fields as the implementation sees fit.

  43. Link Mauve

    (And has available.)

  44. flow

    ahh right xep4 has <item/>

  45. Zash

    Could you model it as a disco#items list on a special node + ad-hoc command on each node?

  46. flow

    I wonder if there is prior art in user search

  47. flow

    surely user search could return a large result set

  48. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0055.html ^F 0059 → no hits

  49. Link Mauve

    Zash, 0059 ^F 0055 though describes the protocol.

  50. Zash


  51. Zash


  52. Link Mauve

    Feel free to migrate it to 0055 if you care enough. :p

  53. flow

    well then it may be worth specifying something like rsm for xep4, which should be negoiatable, as in requestor adds flag to request, responder replies with rsm-is xep4 response

  54. Link Mauve

    Zash, so in your proposal, a client would disco#items like in XEP-0135, and do ad-hoc commands there?

  55. Link Mauve

    That sounds bad if e.g. you want to select many files and delete them at once.

  56. Link Mauve

    flow, yup.

  57. flow

    Zash, that eventually only shifts the large result set problematic from xep4 to xep30, no?

  58. Zash


  59. flow

    I mean, i really like to see rsm disco going

  60. Link Mauve

    flow, RSM does specify itself for both 0055 and 0030.

  61. flow

    I think I even have a commit or even made a pr in that regard

  62. Link Mauve

    (Backwards again, I guess.)

  63. Zash

    Link Mauve: It would move that into the client and make it less efficient to batch-delete stuff.

  64. Link Mauve

    Only one of the existing four deferred XEPs for file management deals with deletion, and it does it only for deletion notifications (XEP-0214).

  65. lovetox

    larma, flow : i was wrong, yes pagination is ok if the adhoc command does only list things

  66. flow

    Link Mauve, ahh right

  67. lovetox

    problem is what Link Mauve wants is, list things, then select things, then delete things

  68. lovetox

    so it would be exceptionally bad, if you have to page through 1000 items, only to come to the last command stage

  69. lovetox

    where you finally can delete them

  70. flow

    lovetox, maybe you can have an optional field where you select the items to delete that are currently displayed?

  71. flow

    and then 'next' not only shows the next page, but deletes the items you have selected

  72. flow

    and then 'next' not only shows the next page, but deletes the items you have selected (if any)

  73. Zash

    Select action first, page through list and select items, finalize?

  74. Zash

    Or select items first, then action?

  75. Zash


  76. lovetox

    no i just reread 0050

  77. lovetox

    even that is possible

  78. lovetox

    a stage can have a next action and a complete action

  79. lovetox

    so the only not nice thing now is, that a generic adhoc UI would not be able to display all items on the same page

  80. lovetox

    and thus unable to provide any search/sort capabilities

  81. Zash

    You could probably do that over ad-hoc as well, but it'd probably be very awkward

  82. larma


  83. lovetox

    larma, i was wrong, a stage can have "next" and "complete" buttons

  84. lovetox

    so you can say, delete, and next page

  85. lovetox

    no need for that workaround

  86. larma

    I am not saying that there is no better way, but this is what I've seen before, and it certainly does work

  87. larma

    and probably is compatible with every client

  88. larma

    even those not implementing the action to move to previous page

  89. pep.

    Is there anything about "A hidden field named FORM_TYPE" saying it's special?

  90. pep.

    There was discussions about that not so long ago right?

  91. Zash


  92. Zash


  93. pep.


  94. Link Mauve

    So, in BOSH, what should happen on stream error?

  95. Link Mauve

    I tried to log in with an invalid password, received <body sid="507521e3-75ea-47e6-af62-8e746ea8d2d0" xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/httpbind" xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"><failure xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"><not-authorized/><text>The response provided by the client doesn&apos;t match the one we calculated.</text></failure></body>

  96. Zash

    Wait, that's not a stream error

  97. Zash

    That's a SASL error. Those are not fatal, you're free to try again.

  98. Link Mauve

    Oh, I see.