XSF Discussion - 2020-05-28

pep., https://github.com/Flowdalic/xeps-xsf/commit/b4a0deb99a3ad9582be5dbfbc933920a478aa4b7

flow: shipit!

I guess I'll pull and remove my version block to put it afterwards

Aren't all fields URIs?

pep., do as you wish, e.g. feel free to squash

Zash, yes, but one could consider that it would be a breaking change if we add <validate/> to already existing form field registry entries

I'd even say that all fields all URLs, but there appears to be no xs:anyURL

flow: not all fields are URLs no :x

URI, not URL

yes URI

ahh right there are probably mailto: fields

and xmpp:

and..

You can do a disco#info on xmpp:jabber.fr, we don’t have a single URL there.

Does 0157 even say that everything's an URI?

Only in the examples obviously.

Data forms validation on result forms... it's not like a requester can take much action if something doesn't validate.

the validation is on the form field

I'd say it's merely a way to specify the type of data we expect to find in it (because it's not done for the other fields)

it sure is

but still teh validation is on the form field, so if ever this data form of 'type' form appears, which does not seem impossible, then the registry entry means that it must have a <validate/>

I suppose if you'd have a way to configure this via ad-hoc or somesuch it'd be nice to have

Is anybody else than the server operator going to fill these?

Ah hmm yes

I'm thinking about cases like jabberfr serving other user's domains

Does this server have federated server to server communication disabled?

which server

Conversations.im

I'm suddenly very confused

same

queen_tilfaar, no conversations.im doesn't have s2s disabled (I really doubt it). But I don't understand where this comes from, if you can add some bit of context that'd be great :)

nor does this MUC. everyone here has joined via s2s.

Sure. Here it is.When I try to chat in this server using another account xxmp account, the message does not go through until I use this server's account.

Zash, everyone? :P

anon...

pep., right, but those rarely stay very long

Zash, ^ I think this is a case of anon.

They show up with an avatar to me, so I wouldn't think so.

ah ok

avatars in muc in poezio when?! Link Mauve! ✏

Also doesn't fit with "conversations.im"

I still don't get it 😭

I don't either

This chat is *not* on conversations.im

It's on muc.xmpp.org

Oh maybe is it because of the other sever doesnt support s2s?

If you joined here with an conversations.im-account, then s2s must be working

Oh my bad

But still the issue exist just saying

If you have an account elsewhere that can't join here, then it's most likely a problem with that server

No what I meant to say is,

Don't have enough info to say more

If I try to chat with conversations.imnl account disabled, I can't chat on this server even though s2s is enabled here

Sorry I'm new to this

I have to enable for the message to go through

Even though I have my other account enabled

queen_tilfaar, what client are you using? Conversations?

Yes

When you say "conversations.im account disabled", what does that mean?

You have added multiple accounts in conversations?

What is "here"

I have 2 xmpp accounts

One is conversations.im and another different one

I cant chat in this server if I have my conversation.im account disabled aka just with my other account alone

Maybe ask the operator of your other account

So that means the problem is with the other server and can conversations.im right?

conversations.im would be the least suspicious in this story

Do you get an error message or something?

Ok will do sorry I got just a little confused. Tnx for bumping my head up a little 😘

Do you get an error message or something? Yeah something like enable the account to send the message

hmm? So is there any account enabled at all when you try to send a message?

I'll do some experiments and hopefully contact the server ppl to see what went wrong

hmm? So is there any account enabled at all when you try to send a message? Yes my other account is enabled. I don't know how i made such a noob mistake of mistaking the error

Then I think it doesn't work like you think it works.

I have never used Conversations with multiple accounts, but it probably remembers which account you used to join, and disabling that and enabling another will probably not make that account join it without you doing something.

> Then I think it doesn't work like you think it works. No I just made a mistake. The problem might be with the other server. I have to Check it to make sure

Zash, ah right

That would surely be confusing

Maybe it would be better to ask about it in the Conversations room rather than here?

Indeed

Multi-account UX is Hard

True. That's what I did wrong. All these days I mistook this server as the conversation.im server hence the confusion

Idiot me. Tnx for helping

Oh, there's a datatype registry in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0122.html#registrar-reg-datatypes-init ?

I thought these were defined by XML

Data validation wishlist: JID parts, XEP-0082.

I'm reading 369: > MIX messages and presence are always sent and are addressed to the user (bare JID). This addressing is a consequence of users (not clients) being the participants in a MIX channel; It is a key difference between MUC and MIX. This addressing change means that the user's server needs to have MIX-specific behaviour to correctly distribute arriving messages and presence appropriately to MIX clients; there may be zero or more online clients that support MIX. This server behaviour is specified by MIX.

Does this mean that not all clients have to receive messages from a MIX channel (they don't have to be joined), or that if they support MIX they will receive messages

I guess I'll ask on the list

!

it's time

MattJ, Guus, Seve, ralphm

Hey, sorry, was on the phone

No problem :)

Not that there is much on the agenda but I'd like to at least have some quick observations re the marketing task

# Welcome

Anybody got an agenda item to add?

I'm here

Nothing to add here

nothing from me

Ok then I'll go on with the marketing thing:

Thanks for those who've participated in the meeting we had on monday regarding the marketing task. We (I?) decided to invite board and commteam to a private channel because the document we were going to talk about was tagged confidential. It appeared almost none of the discussion resolved around specifics of that document though, so maybe we should have done it here..

With this out of the way,

From what I understand, and after a few days of letting it sink, it seems to me that some people disagree with what I wanted to do. What I had in mind taking this task was to help commteam, which at the time was not in really good shape (Nyco asking for help during Summit) and then disappearing for some time (not blaming, "we're all volunteers") leaving the team inactive before emus picked up some pieces and then jc surfaced again (again, not blaming),

So my first goal was to reinforce the team. Which I don't think was really understood by all participants in the meeting on monday

That was not what the document suggested me. to me it feels you are talking about a community manager, but the proposal was different than that, to my eyes.

From what I can see, some people really want to expand on what the XSF does. Which may be fine and I'm not opposed to this, but it's just not what I had in mind.

So I'm going to park the task until commteam says they actually want it.

We've engaged a third party, that has been put in some effort. We should be clear to them as to expectations/timelines.

Well, two concrete desires were highlighted at the meeting: pretty much everyone agreed that we want proper testimonials and a jobs board

Guus, yes I'm keeping them up-to-date as possible

ok!

I think we've already agreed on having a job board, months ago?

Yes

last term yes

testimonials is an ongoing thing too.

But these are different tasks

I"m in favor of both - could also be done in parallel to a marketing effort (which in my mind is something different)

It just puts me in a weird position when the team who's concerned with this doesn't even agree

Which is why I wanted them on-board from the start, and I think I tried to but maybe I didn't do it properly

let's approach this similar to what we're doing with iteam: if the WT needs (paid) resources to improve their performance, board has signaled that it's open to that.

We can look at the WT to come up with suggestions on how to do that best.

What Matt and pep prepared could be a very good start to that effort - but it might be good to let the WT take the lead?

that prevents the awkward situation that pep described.

I'm happy to hand over contact details of the contractor after checking with them, if commteam is interested

But I need some kind of hint :)

That's it from me, I think.

Commteam members have explicitly asked for professional help - at least nyco has been vocal about this.

So, I'm assuming that the groundwork that you and Matt did is very helpful to do that.

Others seem to have a different opinion though

That's new to me - we've been talking about this on and of for months.

If we are so unclear how or were in a WT we need help, but agree that we need help, good professionals can also help to figure out what it could be actually ✏

I suggest we punt this to the CommsTeam, and ask them to come up with a wishlist and/or plan of attack

> So, I'm assuming that the groundwork that you and Matt did is very helpful to do that. I think so too

so that at least there's consensus.

Ok, so commteam please reach consensus and tell us what you want

Who's the lead of comm anyway? Nyco?

Is there a lead at all

I was not aware about what you guys talk regarding nyco requesting help

What's "WT"?

WT = work team

ack

they are supposed to have a chair, as defined in the bylaws, from how I understand them.

Seve, right, it has been said during Summit. I don't remember if this was written explicitely in the minutes sorry. But I remember it being mentioned online multiple times anyway

pep. can you confirm with comm team that they will tell us what they'd prefer, investment wise?

lets take it from there.

I'll follow-up with commteam

# AOB?

none here

Next: +1w

# Can we have XSF meetings also at another time? (maybe once a month?)

I dont know how many at least in Europe are working right now?

maybe evening time once a month would help to let more people attent too

Are you suggesting to move this board meeting, or do you want to have a new meeting?

Yes, sorry, this board meeting

no always, maybe with alternating times

I guess most are working. I don't personally have an issue with moving the time, and as much as I'd like to accomodate members to join, I think this is mostly done to accomodate board members to join

I'd personally do not want to move this meeting, as that would clash with my other responsibilities.

Indeed, work time for me ends at 5pm and that's when family time begins - I wouldn't be able to attend an evening meeting

Okay, but if we have at least one of 4 meetings in a month at another time. because like this it excludes others completely too, right?

And, although it's not a private meeting, there might be value in not making this a town hall meeting either?

🤷‍♂️ sure, but for me is usually hard to attentd this time

I think that counts for others as well

but if Im the only one keep on doing

I appreciate the effort to participate in XSF meetings anyway :)

That's not the case for member

We have a lot of discussion venues outside of this particular meeting. To keep these meetings concise, it might be beneficial of not having everyone join in ,and have discussions elsewhere?

Ok fine, agreed

# Any other AOB?

I'd be happy to move things around if it accomodates others, but not to the extend that it's putting up barriers for board members themselves to join.

Don't have a feeling about how important attentance is in general.

(still no AOBs for me)

# Close

Thanks all.

Same, thank you.

Thanks

emus, personally I'm happy for you to comment on list for example against minutes or the like if you can't attend a specific meeting

It would have the same value to me

sure

(I'm also open to moving the time of the meeting, but it seems it's not possible for other board members so that's it)

no, just leave it

If anything, I'd prefer to make these meetings shorter - less discussing things, but more deciding on things. If we can move the 'discussion' bit elsewhere, that'd benefit us, I think.

Guus, I've been hinting at using the list for most things :x

is fine for the moment. I would rather ask if member have expectations to attend to meetings like this ✏

But it seems people want to meet here anyway

> If anything, I'd prefer to make these meetings shorter - less discussing things, but more deciding on things. If we can move the 'discussion' bit elsewhere, that'd benefit us, I think. 👍

pep. I think doing more discussion on-list is good. We'd still need the meetings to formally agree to stuff. I'm just afraid that we're running on fumes, resource wise.

Are board meeting agendas posted to the list(s)?

To the list no, it's still trello

Maybe we should petition the chair to send agendas :)

I do like the way jonas’ posts the Council agenda in advance

to the list(s) specifically

Yeah I agree. And technically bylaws says something something 3 days in advance

me too. to be fair, Council pre-Jonas did the same.

maybe board has let things slide a bit - might be good to pick that up.

something to consider for the next meeting 🙂

I need to be doing other stuff now

ttyl!

I just added an item to the agenda ;p ✏

14:16:30 Zash> I do like the way jonas’ posts the Council agenda in advance I refuse to take credit for that

:O

you can't give credit back

Can't you?

> you can't give credit back Indeed. We enforce credit upon you!

republican credits are worth nothing out here either way ;P

Spam will detect that we need credits and gold now

Did you just quote Watto on us? 🙂

watto?

Guus, I did

Emus: star wars.

re: 'republican credits'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watto

Ah, now I remember

star wars quotes. I'm so not in on those

not to worry, we have you covered.

I will write the minutes btw, somewhere around tonight or tomorrow

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0369.html#find-channel-participants can anybody discover participants in MIX?

speaking in terms of pubsub, the pubsub node with the participants may have ACLs based on the affiliation.

if you’re not subscribed, it’s possible you’re not allowed to retrieve items

also MIX should (I think) look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0406.html#config-node field "Participants Node Subscription" value

jonas’, with pubsub sure. does that mean everything pubsub is possible in MIX's pubsub nodes

I'm just starting to read the thing