XSF Discussion - 2020-06-19


  1. Neustradamus Wojtek: ^
  2. Neustradamus vanitasvitae: Stork + Siskin IM
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  21. Wojtek It's not implemented in none of our clients (Siskin, Beagle, Stork)
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  25. Neustradamus Wojtek: - https://github.com/tigase/stork/blob/master/app/src/main/res/xml/features.xml - https://github.com/tigase/siskin-im/blob/master/SiskinIM/settings/server_features_list.xml
  26. Wojtek as you can see, this is complete list of XEPs without indication whether it's implemented or not...
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  78. pep. vanitasvitae, it's not implemented. there's many things to fix in that XEP :(
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  210. flow should xep156 .well-known lookups over http be allowed? rfc6415 says so, but I think this is an issue, as an attacker could redirect you to a websocket endpoint under his control
  211. flow I guess the question is how wss: certificates are validated by xmpp clients
  212. jonas’ I seem to recall to have read something about that in the websocket rfc
  213. flow but I think most websocket libraries will use the name in the websocket url, and not the xmpp service name
  214. jonas’ I think it says you MUST use https for the well known lookup
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  216. jonas’ 1. As described in Section 4 of this document, the method for discovering a connection endpoint does not use DNS SRV records as in the TCP binding but instead uses Web-host Metadata files retrieved via HTTPS from a URL at the XMPP service domain. From a security standpoint, this is functionally equivalent to resolution via DNS SRV records (and still relies on the DNS for resolution of the XMPP source domain).
  217. jonas’ https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7395#section-6
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  220. flow yeah, but if websocket libraries do not correctly verify the certificate, then this is not comperable to (unauthenticated) DNS SRV RRs
  221. flow yeah, but if websocket libraries do not "correctly" verify the certificate, then this is not comperable to (unauthenticated) DNS SRV RRs
  222. Zash So you could do something like the SRV/DNSSEC thing, ie not accept a pointer to something other than ws(s)://maindomain.example/* unless the .well-known lookup is over https
  223. flow Zash, right, but not sure if I like the complexity of this
  224. Zash Presumably wss://this.example must present a cert for dns:this.example
  225. flow sure, but what if my xmpp service address is example.org and well-known delegates to wss://websocket.example.org
  226. flow or http-non-tls looked up well-known delegates to wss://evil.attacker.org
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  231. flow of course if wss://evil.attacker.org presents a cert with dns:example.org it should probably authenticate, but given that websocket is somehow related to http, i would not be surprised if a lot of websocket libraries simply authenticate if a valid certifcate for evil.attacker.org is presented
  232. Zash Same problem as with an insecure SRV record pointing to evil.attacker.example
  233. flow not really, we do authenticate using SAN there
  234. jonas’ http-non-tls for well-known is forbidden as per websocket spec, we can ignore that
  235. jonas’ because of exactly that issue
  236. Zash so no problem then
  237. flow jonas’, ok, I still would not ignore it, as I was unable to find it
  238. flow it should probably be mentioned in xep156
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  240. flow jonas’, also ref to the part of the spec pls :)
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  242. jonas’ flow, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7395#section-4 step 1
  243. jonas’ > 1. Send a request over secure HTTP to the path
  244. flow ahh I thought you where referring to the websocket rfc
  245. flow not the xmpp websocket transport binding rfc
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  247. jonas’ oh sorry, yeah, I meant the xmpp-over-websocket rfc
  248. jonas’ the websocket rfc obviously wouldn’t know anything about the xmpp-specific well-known things
  249. flow i still wonder if we should, at least recommend, https only well-known lookups in xep156
  250. jonas’ that sounds reasonable
  251. jonas’ can never hurt
  252. flow and why rfc7395 does not use a normative 'MUST' to state that well-known must only be retrieved via https
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  337. jonas’ moparisthebest <-> vanitasvitae
  338. jonas’ (cue Teamspeak 1.x "Link engaged" sound)
  339. vanitasvitae 😀
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  349. flow wiki.xmpp.org has 1661 pages
  350. flow is currently git cloning wiki.xmpp.org
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  352. pep. git cloning mediawiki? :o
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  354. flow try that with wikipedia.org ;)
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