XSF Discussion - 2020-06-21


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  215. Yagiza Hello!
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  219. Yagiza I'm thinking about implementation of XEP-0385: Stateless Inline Media Sharing (SIMS), but some details looks unclear for me, so clarification needed.
  220. Yagiza Can anyone suggest me?
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  227. Zash Yagiza: Just ask about what seems unclear to you. If nobody here is awake enough to answer then try the mailing list.
  228. Yagiza Ok
  229. Yagiza The question is:
  230. flow mean cliffhanger ;)
  231. Yagiza Section 4.2 says: "In that case no transfer needs to be initated and the image can be displayed in-line of the chat."
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  234. Yagiza But we see, that <media-sharing/> element is a child of <reference/> element which references a part of the text in <body/> element.
  235. Yagiza How it supposed to be rendered?
  236. Yagiza If it's an image for example.
  237. Yagiza Should it be displayed below the message text? Or instead of referenced part of the text? Or besides the referenced part of the text? Or...?
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  239. Yagiza There is no example of rendered message in the XEP.
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  254. flow Yagiza, I am not sure if there is a one-size-fits-all answer here, hence it is probably "display the image in a sensible way". The only thing I can say is that it is likely not replacing the referenced part of the text, but I am not the author of the XEP. And the fact that you asking if the image should replace the referenced part of the text tells me that this probably should be clarified in the XEP.
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  289. lovetox Yagiza, you should make up your mind about that yourself
  290. lovetox its already a fail for me that the XEP mentions displaying the image inline
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  344. Yagiza So, you agree that "display image in-line" sounds ambiguous and meaning of referencing a part of the text must be clarified in the XEP?
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  387. wurstsalat Hi! Has there been an update regarding XMPP Compliance Badges?
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  455. lovetox Yagiza, its a document for the xmpp protocol, it tells you the format how data is transfered to you / or you have to transfer to others over the wire
  456. lovetox it does or should not tell you how to render an image at what position in your client
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  459. Yagiza lovetox, I have a lot of other way to transfer image data. But if XEP says that image can be displayed in-line, it should clarify what does that mean. Also, if XEP says that its element is a child of <reference/> element, it should clarify what is that reference used for.
  460. lovetox just out of interest what other means do you have to transfer image metadata?
  461. Yagiza lovetox, so, all the XEP is about transferring image metadata?
  462. lovetox together with text
  463. lovetox or in reference to a other message or text
  464. lovetox this is a bonus
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  466. lovetox if you have use for that you can reference a text range where this image belongs
  467. lovetox but this is totally optional
  468. Yagiza lovetox, ok. So, this XEP describes a way to transfer image metadata and link it to a part of text?
  469. lovetox yes
  470. lovetox the linking part is optional
  471. lovetox and if you now ask what it means UI wise if a image is linked to a text range
  472. lovetox yes the XEP does not say that, and its questionable if it really should
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  474. lovetox i think no client who implements that xep does the linking to a text range
  475. lovetox usually you just want to attach a image to a message
  476. lovetox and not to special little part of the message
  477. lovetox and yeah if all clients would start to attach images not only to a message, but to position 5-8 (for example) of that message
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  480. lovetox we would need to have some agreement UI wise what that means
  481. lovetox though XEPs are not there to dictate how UI should look
  482. lovetox so i would for now implement that without the begin/end attributes
  483. lovetox then it means "the picture is attached to that text"
  484. lovetox and its your choice if you display that under the text, over, on the side, or in a special dialog
  485. Yagiza lovetox, but I see no examples of using it not as a part of <reference/>. So, I don't see a way of using it other way but as a data for reference, which references to a part of text, 'cause in XEP-0372 I see no example of using reference without 'begin' and 'end' attributes.
  486. jonas’ > It MAY contain begin, end and anchor elements.
  487. jonas’ begin and end are optional, no matter if there’s an example for them
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  489. lovetox Yagiza, reference XEP is also meant for other usecases, where begin and end make more sense
  490. Yagiza IC
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  495. lovetox the clients that use this, use the XEP for transfering a image with metdata, optional with text
  496. lovetox standard use case like: See what i found <Image>
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  500. Yagiza lovetox, so, I can add to the message reference to an image without specifying 'begin' and 'end' attributes and I can count on the fact that it will somehow be displayed alongside with the message?
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  503. jonas’ if you find a client supporting it, usre
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  505. lovetox if a client supports 385 he will most likely display the image in a way that the user knows that its related to the message
  506. lovetox the problem is you cant know if a client supports 385
  507. jonas’ If I had to guess based on the history with OOB, the consensus will evolve toward putting the URL into the body and use a reference to mark up the URL as referring to the image
  508. Yagiza jonas’, of course, I won't send a message with such elements to a client, which didn't announce support of those XEPs with disco#info.
  509. jonas’ so you don’t care about MAM? :)
  510. jonas’ or MUC for that matter?
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  515. Yagiza jonas’, yes. That's what I'm thinking about right now, developing XEP-0394. I'm thinking about making using of XEP-0372 and XEP-0385 optional and recommend not using it when user suppose that other side may have clients which do not support them.
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