XSF Discussion - 2020-06-21

  1. Yagiza


  2. Yagiza

    I'm thinking about implementation of XEP-0385: Stateless Inline Media Sharing (SIMS), but some details looks unclear for me, so clarification needed.

  3. Yagiza

    Can anyone suggest me?

  4. Zash

    Yagiza: Just ask about what seems unclear to you. If nobody here is awake enough to answer then try the mailing list.

  5. Yagiza


  6. Yagiza

    The question is:

  7. flow

    mean cliffhanger ;)

  8. Yagiza

    Section 4.2 says: "In that case no transfer needs to be initated and the image can be displayed in-line of the chat."

  9. Yagiza

    But we see, that <media-sharing/> element is a child of <reference/> element which references a part of the text in <body/> element.

  10. Yagiza

    How it supposed to be rendered?

  11. Yagiza

    If it's an image for example.

  12. Yagiza

    Should it be displayed below the message text? Or instead of referenced part of the text? Or besides the referenced part of the text? Or...?

  13. Yagiza

    There is no example of rendered message in the XEP.

  14. flow

    Yagiza, I am not sure if there is a one-size-fits-all answer here, hence it is probably "display the image in a sensible way". The only thing I can say is that it is likely not replacing the referenced part of the text, but I am not the author of the XEP. And the fact that you asking if the image should replace the referenced part of the text tells me that this probably should be clarified in the XEP.

  15. lovetox

    Yagiza, you should make up your mind about that yourself

  16. lovetox

    its already a fail for me that the XEP mentions displaying the image inline

  17. Yagiza

    So, you agree that "display image in-line" sounds ambiguous and meaning of referencing a part of the text must be clarified in the XEP?

  18. wurstsalat

    Hi! Has there been an update regarding XMPP Compliance Badges?

  19. lovetox

    Yagiza, its a document for the xmpp protocol, it tells you the format how data is transfered to you / or you have to transfer to others over the wire

  20. lovetox

    it does or should not tell you how to render an image at what position in your client

  21. Yagiza

    lovetox, I have a lot of other way to transfer image data. But if XEP says that image can be displayed in-line, it should clarify what does that mean. Also, if XEP says that its element is a child of <reference/> element, it should clarify what is that reference used for.

  22. lovetox

    just out of interest what other means do you have to transfer image metadata?

  23. Yagiza

    lovetox, so, all the XEP is about transferring image metadata?

  24. lovetox

    together with text

  25. lovetox

    or in reference to a other message or text

  26. lovetox

    this is a bonus

  27. lovetox

    if you have use for that you can reference a text range where this image belongs

  28. lovetox

    but this is totally optional

  29. Yagiza

    lovetox, ok. So, this XEP describes a way to transfer image metadata and link it to a part of text?

  30. lovetox


  31. lovetox

    the linking part is optional

  32. lovetox

    and if you now ask what it means UI wise if a image is linked to a text range

  33. lovetox

    yes the XEP does not say that, and its questionable if it really should

  34. lovetox

    i think no client who implements that xep does the linking to a text range

  35. lovetox

    usually you just want to attach a image to a message

  36. lovetox

    and not to special little part of the message

  37. lovetox

    and yeah if all clients would start to attach images not only to a message, but to position 5-8 (for example) of that message

  38. lovetox

    we would need to have some agreement UI wise what that means

  39. lovetox

    though XEPs are not there to dictate how UI should look

  40. lovetox

    so i would for now implement that without the begin/end attributes

  41. lovetox

    then it means "the picture is attached to that text"

  42. lovetox

    and its your choice if you display that under the text, over, on the side, or in a special dialog

  43. Yagiza

    lovetox, but I see no examples of using it not as a part of <reference/>. So, I don't see a way of using it other way but as a data for reference, which references to a part of text, 'cause in XEP-0372 I see no example of using reference without 'begin' and 'end' attributes.

  44. jonas’

    > It MAY contain begin, end and anchor elements.

  45. jonas’

    begin and end are optional, no matter if there’s an example for them

  46. lovetox

    Yagiza, reference XEP is also meant for other usecases, where begin and end make more sense

  47. Yagiza


  48. lovetox

    the clients that use this, use the XEP for transfering a image with metdata, optional with text

  49. lovetox

    standard use case like: See what i found <Image>

  50. Yagiza

    lovetox, so, I can add to the message reference to an image without specifying 'begin' and 'end' attributes and I can count on the fact that it will somehow be displayed alongside with the message?

  51. jonas’

    if you find a client supporting it, usre

  52. lovetox

    if a client supports 385 he will most likely display the image in a way that the user knows that its related to the message

  53. lovetox

    the problem is you cant know if a client supports 385

  54. jonas’

    If I had to guess based on the history with OOB, the consensus will evolve toward putting the URL into the body and use a reference to mark up the URL as referring to the image

  55. Yagiza

    jonas’, of course, I won't send a message with such elements to a client, which didn't announce support of those XEPs with disco#info.

  56. jonas’

    so you don’t care about MAM? :)

  57. jonas’

    or MUC for that matter?

  58. Yagiza

    jonas’, yes. That's what I'm thinking about right now, developing XEP-0394. I'm thinking about making using of XEP-0372 and XEP-0385 optional and recommend not using it when user suppose that other side may have clients which do not support them.