XSF Discussion - 2020-06-21

Hello!

I'm thinking about implementation of XEP-0385: Stateless Inline Media Sharing (SIMS), but some details looks unclear for me, so clarification needed.

Can anyone suggest me?

Yagiza: Just ask about what seems unclear to you. If nobody here is awake enough to answer then try the mailing list.

Ok

The question is:

mean cliffhanger ;)

Section 4.2 says: "In that case no transfer needs to be initated and the image can be displayed in-line of the chat."

But we see, that <media-sharing/> element is a child of <reference/> element which references a part of the text in <body/> element.

How it supposed to be rendered?

If it's an image for example.

Should it be displayed below the message text? Or instead of referenced part of the text? Or besides the referenced part of the text? Or...?

There is no example of rendered message in the XEP.

Yagiza, I am not sure if there is a one-size-fits-all answer here, hence it is probably "display the image in a sensible way". The only thing I can say is that it is likely not replacing the referenced part of the text, but I am not the author of the XEP. And the fact that you asking if the image should replace the referenced part of the text tells me that this probably should be clarified in the XEP.

Yagiza, you should make up your mind about that yourself

its already a fail for me that the XEP mentions displaying the image inline

So, you agree that "display image in-line" sounds ambiguous and meaning of referencing a part of the text must be clarified in the XEP?

Hi! Has there been an update regarding XMPP Compliance Badges?

Yagiza, its a document for the xmpp protocol, it tells you the format how data is transfered to you / or you have to transfer to others over the wire

it does or should not tell you how to render an image at what position in your client

lovetox, I have a lot of other way to transfer image data. But if XEP says that image can be displayed in-line, it should clarify what does that mean. Also, if XEP says that its element is a child of <reference/> element, it should clarify what is that reference used for.

just out of interest what other means do you have to transfer image metadata?

lovetox, so, all the XEP is about transferring image metadata?

together with text

or in reference to a other message or text

this is a bonus

if you have use for that you can reference a text range where this image belongs

but this is totally optional

lovetox, ok. So, this XEP describes a way to transfer image metadata and link it to a part of text?

yes

the linking part is optional

and if you now ask what it means UI wise if a image is linked to a text range

yes the XEP does not say that, and its questionable if it really should

i think no client who implements that xep does the linking to a text range

usually you just want to attach a image to a message

and not to special little part of the message

and yeah if all clients would start to attach images not only to a message, but to position 5-8 (for example) of that message

we would need to have some agreement UI wise what that means

though XEPs are not there to dictate how UI should look

so i would for now implement that without the begin/end attributes

then it means "the picture is attached to that text"

and its your choice if you display that under the text, over, on the side, or in a special dialog

lovetox, but I see no examples of using it not as a part of <reference/>. So, I don't see a way of using it other way but as a data for reference, which references to a part of text, 'cause in XEP-0372 I see no example of using reference without 'begin' and 'end' attributes.

> It MAY contain begin, end and anchor elements.

begin and end are optional, no matter if there’s an example for them

Yagiza, reference XEP is also meant for other usecases, where begin and end make more sense

IC

the clients that use this, use the XEP for transfering a image with metdata, optional with text

standard use case like: See what i found <Image>

lovetox, so, I can add to the message reference to an image without specifying 'begin' and 'end' attributes and I can count on the fact that it will somehow be displayed alongside with the message?

if you find a client supporting it, usre

if a client supports 385 he will most likely display the image in a way that the user knows that its related to the message

the problem is you cant know if a client supports 385

If I had to guess based on the history with OOB, the consensus will evolve toward putting the URL into the body and use a reference to mark up the URL as referring to the image

jonas’, of course, I won't send a message with such elements to a client, which didn't announce support of those XEPs with disco#info.

so you don’t care about MAM? :)

or MUC for that matter?

jonas’, yes. That's what I'm thinking about right now, developing XEP-0394. I'm thinking about making using of XEP-0372 and XEP-0385 optional and recommend not using it when user suppose that other side may have clients which do not support them.