I'm thinking about implementation of XEP-0385: Stateless Inline Media Sharing (SIMS), but some details looks unclear for me, so clarification needed.
Yagiza
Can anyone suggest me?
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Zash
Yagiza: Just ask about what seems unclear to you. If nobody here is awake enough to answer then try the mailing list.
Yagiza
Ok
Yagiza
The question is:
flow
mean cliffhanger ;)
Yagiza
Section 4.2 says: "In that case no transfer needs to be initated and the image can be displayed in-line of the chat."
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Yagiza
But we see, that <media-sharing/> element is a child of <reference/> element which references a part of the text in <body/> element.
Yagiza
How it supposed to be rendered?
Yagiza
If it's an image for example.
Yagiza
Should it be displayed below the message text? Or instead of referenced part of the text? Or besides the referenced part of the text? Or...?
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Yagiza
There is no example of rendered message in the XEP.
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flow
Yagiza, I am not sure if there is a one-size-fits-all answer here, hence it is probably "display the image in a sensible way". The only thing I can say is that it is likely not replacing the referenced part of the text, but I am not the author of the XEP. And the fact that you asking if the image should replace the referenced part of the text tells me that this probably should be clarified in the XEP.
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lovetox
Yagiza, you should make up your mind about that yourself
lovetox
its already a fail for me that the XEP mentions displaying the image inline
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Yagiza
So, you agree that "display image in-line" sounds ambiguous and meaning of referencing a part of the text must be clarified in the XEP?
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wurstsalat
Hi! Has there been an update regarding XMPP Compliance Badges?
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lovetox
Yagiza, its a document for the xmpp protocol, it tells you the format how data is transfered to you / or you have to transfer to others over the wire
lovetox
it does or should not tell you how to render an image at what position in your client
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Yagiza
lovetox, I have a lot of other way to transfer image data. But if XEP says that image can be displayed in-line, it should clarify what does that mean. Also, if XEP says that its element is a child of <reference/> element, it should clarify what is that reference used for.
lovetox
just out of interest what other means do you have to transfer image metadata?
Yagiza
lovetox, so, all the XEP is about transferring image metadata?
lovetox
together with text
lovetox
or in reference to a other message or text
lovetox
this is a bonus
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lovetox
if you have use for that you can reference a text range where this image belongs
lovetox
but this is totally optional
Yagiza
lovetox, ok. So, this XEP describes a way to transfer image metadata and link it to a part of text?
lovetox
yes
lovetox
the linking part is optional
lovetox
and if you now ask what it means UI wise if a image is linked to a text range
lovetox
yes the XEP does not say that, and its questionable if it really should
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lovetox
i think no client who implements that xep does the linking to a text range
lovetox
usually you just want to attach a image to a message
lovetox
and not to special little part of the message
lovetox
and yeah if all clients would start to attach images not only to a message, but to position 5-8 (for example) of that message
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lovetox
we would need to have some agreement UI wise what that means
lovetox
though XEPs are not there to dictate how UI should look
lovetox
so i would for now implement that without the begin/end attributes
lovetox
then it means "the picture is attached to that text"
lovetox
and its your choice if you display that under the text, over, on the side, or in a special dialog
Yagiza
lovetox, but I see no examples of using it not as a part of <reference/>. So, I don't see a way of using it other way but as a data for reference, which references to a part of text, 'cause in XEP-0372 I see no example of using reference without 'begin' and 'end' attributes.
jonas’
> It MAY contain begin, end and anchor elements.
jonas’
begin and end are optional, no matter if there’s an example for them
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lovetox
Yagiza, reference XEP is also meant for other usecases, where begin and end make more sense
Yagiza
IC
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lovetox
the clients that use this, use the XEP for transfering a image with metdata, optional with text
lovetox
standard use case like:
See what i found
<Image>
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Yagiza
lovetox, so, I can add to the message reference to an image without specifying 'begin' and 'end' attributes and I can count on the fact that it will somehow be displayed alongside with the message?
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jonas’
if you find a client supporting it, usre
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lovetox
if a client supports 385 he will most likely display the image in a way that the user knows that its related to the message
lovetox
the problem is you cant know if a client supports 385
jonas’
If I had to guess based on the history with OOB, the consensus will evolve toward putting the URL into the body and use a reference to mark up the URL as referring to the image
Yagiza
jonas’, of course, I won't send a message with such elements to a client, which didn't announce support of those XEPs with disco#info.
jonas’
so you don’t care about MAM? :)
jonas’
or MUC for that matter?
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Yagiza
jonas’, yes. That's what I'm thinking about right now, developing XEP-0394. I'm thinking about making using of XEP-0372 and XEP-0385 optional and recommend not using it when user suppose that other side may have clients which do not support them.