XSF Discussion - 2020-07-02


  1. neshtaxmpp has left

  2. mukt2 has left

  3. debacle has left

  4. stpeter has left

  5. mukt2 has joined

  6. alameyo has left

  7. neshtaxmpp has joined

  8. Zash has left

  9. Zash has joined

  10. Shell has left

  11. stpeter has joined

  12. LNJ has left

  13. LNJ has joined

  14. mukt2 has left

  15. citizenzibb has left

  16. citizenzibb has joined

  17. stpeter has left

  18. neshtaxmpp has left

  19. mukt2 has joined

  20. maines has left

  21. maines has joined

  22. Wojtek has left

  23. alexis has left

  24. dd has joined

  25. alexis has joined

  26. alameyo has joined

  27. dd

    dsf

  28. dd has left

  29. neshtaxmpp has joined

  30. adiaholic_ has left

  31. mukt2 has left

  32. mukt2 has joined

  33. lobodelrayo has left

  34. lobodelrayo has joined

  35. arc has left

  36. arc has joined

  37. neshtaxmpp has left

  38. neshtaxmpp has joined

  39. mukt2 has left

  40. mukt2 has joined

  41. neshtaxmpp has left

  42. strypey has joined

  43. stpeter has joined

  44. mukt2 has left

  45. mukt2 has joined

  46. neshtaxmpp has joined

  47. stpeter has left

  48. elli has joined

  49. elli has left

  50. arc has left

  51. arc has joined

  52. arc has left

  53. arc has joined

  54. arc has left

  55. arc has joined

  56. strypey has left

  57. neshtaxmpp has left

  58. neshtaxmpp has joined

  59. neshtaxmpp has left

  60. lobodelrayo has left

  61. lobodelrayo has joined

  62. lobodelrayo has left

  63. lobodelrayo has joined

  64. lobodelrayo has left

  65. lobodelrayo has joined

  66. andy has joined

  67. govanify has left

  68. govanify has joined

  69. lobodelrayo has left

  70. lobodelrayo has joined

  71. strypey has joined

  72. mimi89999 has left

  73. mimi89999 has joined

  74. Nekit has joined

  75. lovetox has joined

  76. Yagiza has joined

  77. mukt2 has left

  78. Jeybe has joined

  79. mukt2 has joined

  80. Tobias has joined

  81. sonny has left

  82. sonny has joined

  83. sonny has left

  84. sonny has joined

  85. moparisthebest

    pep.: As you know xmpp is incapable of providing group chat

  86. moparisthebest

    I simply can't explain how I'm sending this message to you, rocket.chat I guess

  87. mukt2 has left

  88. lovetox has left

  89. mukt2 has joined

  90. stpeter has joined

  91. mukt2 has left

  92. mukt2 has joined

  93. !XSF_Martin

    > We went through great lengths to find the one xmpp protocol tool that doesn't implemt muc Like someone said in the other room: sendxmpp 😁

  94. strypey has left

  95. strypey has joined

  96. stpeter has left

  97. Mikaela has joined

  98. Seve has left

  99. Seve has joined

  100. Vaulor has joined

  101. lorddavidiii has joined

  102. mukt2 has left

  103. mukt2 has joined

  104. alexis has left

  105. wurstsalat has joined

  106. Maranda has left

  107. Maranda has joined

  108. alexis has joined

  109. Shell has joined

  110. neshtaxmpp has joined

  111. karoshi has joined

  112. waqas has left

  113. Jeybe has left

  114. marc has joined

  115. maines has left

  116. maines has joined

  117. mukt2 has left

  118. sonny has left

  119. sonny has joined

  120. mukt2 has joined

  121. lorddavidiii has left

  122. neshtaxmpp has left

  123. arc has left

  124. arc has joined

  125. arc has left

  126. arc has joined

  127. sonny has left

  128. sonny has joined

  129. arc has left

  130. arc has joined

  131. mukt2 has left

  132. lorddavidiii has joined

  133. mukt2 has joined

  134. stpeter has joined

  135. neshtaxmpp has joined

  136. neshtaxmpp has left

  137. adiaholic_ has joined

  138. stpeter has left

  139. karoshi has left

  140. amuza@riseup.net has left

  141. xecks has joined

  142. karoshi has joined

  143. karoshi has left

  144. karoshi has joined

  145. krauq has left

  146. amuza@riseup.net has joined

  147. Jeybe has joined

  148. arc has left

  149. arc has joined

  150. emus has left

  151. debacle has joined

  152. emus has joined

  153. Andrzej has joined

  154. adiaholic_ has left

  155. adiaholic_ has joined

  156. mukt2 has left

  157. lorddavidiii has left

  158. lorddavidiii has joined

  159. krauq has joined

  160. mukt2 has joined

  161. lorddavidiii has left

  162. lorddavidiii has joined

  163. serge90 has joined

  164. lskdjf has joined

  165. mukt2 has left

  166. edhelas

    is it possible that they started their investigation before 2002 🤔

  167. !XSF_Martin

    Didn't they say 'in 2016'

  168. !XSF_Martin

    But afair even GAIM supported groupchat back in 2003 when I started using XMPP.

  169. govanify has left

  170. govanify has joined

  171. stpeter has joined

  172. Steve Kille has left

  173. Steve Kille has joined

  174. sonny has left

  175. sonny has joined

  176. sonny has left

  177. sonny has joined

  178. stpeter has left

  179. mimi89999 has left

  180. arc has left

  181. arc has joined

  182. debacle has left

  183. mimi89999 has joined

  184. Half-Shot has left

  185. uhoreg has left

  186. Bifrost Bot has left

  187. Half-Shot has joined

  188. uhoreg has joined

  189. Bifrost Bot has joined

  190. Ge0rG

    Apple is doing increasingly more crazy things... https://thomask.sdf.org/blog/2020/07/01/local-area-network-push-notifications.html

  191. andrey.g has joined

  192. jonas’

    I was expecting apple devices proxying for one another and doing fancy multicast. Disappointed.

  193. govanify has left

  194. govanify has joined

  195. Shell has left

  196. Shell has joined

  197. Shell has left

  198. Shell has joined

  199. strypey has left

  200. Shell has left

  201. arc has left

  202. arc has joined

  203. debacle has joined

  204. Guus

    I suggest we do not dwell to much on that rocket chat comment. There's nothing for us to gain there. Lets focus on our strengths instead of someone else badly informed decisions. 🙂

  205. mukt2 has joined

  206. Shell has joined

  207. neshtaxmpp has joined

  208. Shell has left

  209. Shell has joined

  210. mukt2 has left

  211. Shell has left

  212. Shell has joined

  213. adiaholic_ has left

  214. adiaholic_ has joined

  215. stpeter has joined

  216. Andrzej has left

  217. Shell has left

  218. Shell has joined

  219. alameyo has left

  220. alameyo has joined

  221. stpeter has left

  222. arc has left

  223. arc has joined

  224. robertooo has left

  225. robertooo has joined

  226. karoshi has left

  227. karoshi has joined

  228. Shell has left

  229. Shell has joined

  230. Guus

    Does anyone happen to know if Encrochat uses/used XMPP?

  231. adiaholic_ has left

  232. Shell has left

  233. Shell has joined

  234. lobodelrayo has left

  235. lobodelrayo has joined

  236. Vaulor

    Seems they are talking about it in conversation's room Guus maybe they know something about it

  237. neshtaxmpp has left

  238. Shell has left

  239. Shell has joined

  240. maines has left

  241. Shell has left

  242. Shell has joined

  243. MattJ

    Guus, I've found no evidence it is. Some similar services rebranded FOSS clients, theirs seems custom. They also have additional features, and their E2EE claims don't match the properties of any of the E2EE options on XMPP

  244. MattJ

    So no hard evidence either way that I've seen, but I would lean towards something custom

  245. sonny has left

  246. sonny has joined

  247. Guus

    Interesting

  248. Guus

    Maybe the criminals wanted group chat?

  249. MattJ

    :)

  250. Guus ducks, runs

  251. Seve

    Haha

  252. robertooo has left

  253. robertooo has joined

  254. maines has joined

  255. stpeter has joined

  256. adiaholic_ has joined

  257. neshtaxmpp has joined

  258. amuza@riseup.net has left

  259. stpeter has left

  260. neshtaxmpp has left

  261. Shell has left

  262. Shell has joined

  263. Andrzej has joined

  264. Wojtek has joined

  265. amuza@riseup.net has joined

  266. emus has left

  267. emus has joined

  268. goffi has joined

  269. Guus

    Board meeting time

  270. pep.

    !

  271. Seve says hi from mobile

  272. Guus

    ralphm , MattJ ?

  273. Guus

    This does not bode well...

  274. pep.

    I don't remember many things in the agenda anyway

  275. Seve

    I'm fine skipping if you guys would like that.

  276. pep.

    I had added the item re the article on interoperability, but I removed it when I realized the date. I'm happy to discuss it if you're up for it, but judging by the number of answers on members@ it doesn't seem like many care

  277. Guus

    I don't have anything pressing myself

  278. pep.

    Then let's skip

  279. Daniel has left

  280. Guus

    ok

  281. Seve nods

  282. Seve

    Alright

  283. Half-Shot has left

  284. uhoreg has left

  285. Bifrost Bot has left

  286. Half-Shot has joined

  287. uhoreg has joined

  288. Bifrost Bot has joined

  289. emus has left

  290. Guus

    I'm leaning towards a 'lets not do that' on that interop text signature thingy, fwiw. Apart from arguments expressed by many others, I also have issues with the wording of that specific text. I find it to be aggressive, to the point of being almost offensive, which - even if other arguments wouldn't prevent me from wanting to sign - would make me wonder how signing that text reflects on others.

  291. pep.

    Can I ask where is the fact that the XSF acts as "neutral" on the website? git grep doesn't give many interesting results. I don't actually see an official stance for this

  292. Guus

    I don't know.

  293. emus has joined

  294. stpeter has joined

  295. emus

    Guus: I think the even more common point was to make a statement in general. just not to be passive on topic that concern us actually. So the signature attempt was an example.

  296. pep.

    I don't really see the aggressive language fwiw. I only see people fed up with platforms lock-in and the economy that encourages this. It's not like there was no proof of all of what they say in there

  297. emus

    Guus: I think the even more common point was to make a statement in general. just not to be passive on topics that concern us actually. So the signature attempt was an example.

  298. Zash

    Write a statement / comment about it, but don't actually sign?

  299. Daniel has joined

  300. mukt2 has joined

  301. moparisthebest has left

  302. pep.

    I guess I'll add an item for next week regarding the mission statement that conflicts with the culture of so-called neutrality around here

  303. moparisthebest has joined

  304. Guus

    Let's work towards a resolution that puts this to bed, one way or the other. I've got the feeling that we're running in circles on issues like these.

  305. sonny has left

  306. sonny has joined

  307. mukt2 has left

  308. andrey.g has left

  309. Maranda has left

  310. maines has left

  311. emus

    Guus: but shouldnt the mission always be an kinda open point? at least question if it is heading the right way on a regular basis?

  312. Tobias has left

  313. pep.

    I also think so. Having the mission being reviewed every so often is kind of essential, even if it's just to say "still looks good"

  314. jonas’

    pep., do you have the link to the open letter at hand?

  315. jonas’

    my mua is still taking minutes to do things… I need to update Qt.

  316. pep.

    https://www.laquadrature.net/en/2019/06/14/for-the-interoperability-of-the-webs-giants-an-open-letter-from-70-organisations/

  317. jonas’

    thank you

  318. Tobias has joined

  319. Guus

    I don't mind reviewing these periodically - but the current frequency seems high.

  320. pep.

    current?

  321. pep.

    When was the last time

  322. Maranda has joined

  323. pep.

    hmm I may vaguely remember a poll, 3 terms ago? 2? I don't exactly remember the content. Also I don't remember the discussion around it if there were any

  324. pep.

    And apparently that wasn't enough to make it up to the website

  325. krauq has left

  326. APach has left

  327. jubalh has joined

  328. jubalh

    hi

  329. jubalh

    will a XEP-0249 stanza always have type=groupchat? It's not mentioned in the XEP is it?

  330. jonas’

    it never will

  331. APach has joined

  332. jonas’

    from the XEP examples, you should expect type='normal' (equivalent to absent @type)

  333. mukt2 has joined

  334. jubalh

    Hmm I see

  335. jubalh

    And something with a namespace of http://jabber.org/protocol/muc#user will have which type?

  336. jubalh

    seems normal too?

  337. maines has joined

  338. krauq has joined

  339. stpeter has left

  340. jonas’

    huh?

  341. jonas’

    "something with a namespace of"?

  342. jubalh

    If I understood correctly that ns is used on several occasions. For MUC presence, and for MUC invites. correct? And both cases it has type normal?

  343. jubalh

    and for MUC PMs too I tihnk

  344. jonas’

    the namespace has no type

  345. jonas’

    I don’t understand what you’re asking

  346. jonas’

    namespaces in general have no type

  347. jubalh

    lets try another way :) so in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html example 135 is a message, in which I have a stanza which has that NS, the type of the message is "normal" since its not explicitly written?

  348. Holger

    I guess the question is which stanza types can be expected for stanzas with childs in that namespace. (But presence stanzas have no type=`normal`.)

  349. jubalh

    yeah thats my question :)

  350. Holger

    jubalh: Yes.

  351. jubalh

    ok

  352. Holger

    jubalh: But generally you can't conclude that you'll never receive a message of different type from looking at such examples. Esp. with `chat` vs. `normal`.

  353. jonas’

    jubalh, terminology! A message is a stanza. A message does not contain stanzas, it may contain XML elements (and in case of <forwarded/>, it may contain nested stanzas, but that’s a special case; there is no example in '45 where a message contains a stanza)

  354. papatutuwawa has joined

  355. govanify has left

  356. govanify has joined

  357. jubalh

    ok

  358. papatutuwawa has left

  359. papatutuwawa has joined

  360. papatutuwawa has left

  361. papatutuwawa has joined

  362. maines has left

  363. neshtaxmpp has joined

  364. stpeter has joined

  365. arc has left

  366. arc has joined

  367. arc has left

  368. arc has joined

  369. arc has left

  370. arc has joined

  371. papatutuwawa has left

  372. nyco has left

  373. nyco has joined

  374. Shell has left

  375. Shell has joined

  376. arc has left

  377. arc has joined

  378. maines has joined

  379. nyco has left

  380. mukt2 has left

  381. nyco has joined

  382. sonny has left

  383. sonny has joined

  384. thorsten has left

  385. thorsten has joined

  386. waqas has joined

  387. werdan has joined

  388. neshtaxmpp has left

  389. neshtaxmpp has joined

  390. lovetox has joined

  391. alexis has left

  392. neshtaxmpp has left

  393. neshtaxmpp has joined

  394. neshtaxmpp has left

  395. karoshi has left

  396. karoshi has joined

  397. Shell has left

  398. Shell has joined

  399. neshtaxmpp has joined

  400. Shell has left

  401. Shell has joined

  402. eevvoor has joined

  403. adiaholic_ has left

  404. neshtaxmpp has left

  405. Steve Kille has left

  406. lobodelrayo has left

  407. lobodelrayo has joined

  408. papatutuwawa has joined

  409. Steve Kille has joined

  410. maines has left

  411. adiaholic_ has joined

  412. Shell has left

  413. maines has joined

  414. debacle has left

  415. Shell has joined

  416. mukt2 has joined

  417. debacle has joined

  418. debacle has left

  419. debacle has joined

  420. marc0s has left

  421. marc0s has joined

  422. andy has left

  423. mukt2 has left

  424. andy has joined

  425. govanify has left

  426. govanify has joined

  427. maines has left

  428. maines has joined

  429. Andrzej has left

  430. citizenzibb has left

  431. citizenzibb has joined

  432. werdan has left

  433. neshtaxmpp has joined

  434. mukt2 has joined

  435. neshtaxmpp has left

  436. goffi has left

  437. Nekit has left

  438. nyco has left

  439. mukt2 has left

  440. debacle has left

  441. debacle has joined

  442. nyco has joined

  443. neshtaxmpp has joined

  444. citizenzibb has left

  445. Shell has left

  446. Shell has joined

  447. mukt2 has joined

  448. adiaholic_ has left

  449. adiaholic_ has joined

  450. citizenzibb has joined

  451. mukt2 has left

  452. mukt2 has joined

  453. waqas has left

  454. Shell has left

  455. Shell has joined

  456. mukt2 has left

  457. mukt2 has joined

  458. Yagiza has left

  459. mukt2 has left

  460. mukt2 has joined

  461. nyco has left

  462. nyco has joined

  463. Shell has left

  464. mukt2 has left

  465. Shell has joined

  466. eevvoor has left

  467. Shell has left

  468. Maranda has left

  469. Maranda has joined

  470. Shell has joined

  471. jcbrand has left

  472. DebXWoody has left

  473. Shell has left

  474. Shell has joined

  475. neshtaxmpp has left

  476. Shell has left

  477. Shell has joined

  478. govanify has left

  479. govanify has joined

  480. Shell has left

  481. Shell has joined

  482. adiaholic_ has left

  483. adiaholic_ has joined

  484. werdan has joined

  485. Tobias has left

  486. werdan has left

  487. alexis has joined

  488. papatutuwawa has left

  489. alexis has left

  490. arc has left

  491. arc has joined

  492. arc has left

  493. arc has joined

  494. sonny has left

  495. sonny has joined

  496. arc has left

  497. arc has joined

  498. arc has left

  499. arc has joined

  500. APach has left

  501. alexis has joined

  502. Mikaela has left

  503. alexis has left

  504. lovetox has left

  505. robertooo has left

  506. robertooo has joined

  507. alexis has joined

  508. sonny has left

  509. alexis has left

  510. lorddavidiii has left

  511. Jeybe has left

  512. sonny has joined

  513. alexis has joined

  514. alexis has left

  515. andy has left

  516. thorsten has left

  517. thorsten has joined

  518. maines has left

  519. karoshi has left

  520. david has left

  521. david has joined

  522. maines has joined

  523. arc has left

  524. arc has joined

  525. Neustradamus has left

  526. alameyo has left

  527. alameyo has joined

  528. Neustradamus has joined

  529. alexis has joined

  530. alexis has left

  531. alexis has joined

  532. amuza@riseup.net has left

  533. amuza@riseup.net has joined

  534. lskdjf has left

  535. stpeter has left

  536. emus has left