XSF Discussion - 2020-07-14

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10:26:48 !XSF_Martin Why there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/occupant-id.html and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0421.html?
10:26:58 jonas’ because we don’t delete stuff from the inbox currently
10:27:08 !XSF_Martin During my first search i found the first and thought it's not yet accepted and later I found the second.
10:27:15 jonas’ and we can’t set redirects :(
10:27:24 jonas’ probably deleting would be a good thing then
10:27:27 !XSF_Martin jonas’: That's irritating if your search engine isn't as clever as google. :(
10:27:37 jonas’ I agree
10:27:46 jonas’ but deleting is also meh regarding reading mailing list history
10:27:53 jonas’ (but so would redirects)
10:28:24 pep. https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/738
10:28:44 jonas’ or that, yesn
10:29:06 jonas’ !XSF_Martin, I hear you want to join the editor team....
10:29:13 !XSF_Martin :D
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10:49:01 Link Mauve jonas’, you could do a HTML redirect instead of an actual deletion.
10:49:15 jonas’ Link Mauve, would also require changes to the schema as in #738
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10:49:34 Link Mauve ~~That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated thanks to containers…~~ ✎
10:49:46 Link Mauve That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated to be realisticly thanks to containers… ✏
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10:49:51 Link Mauve That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated to be realisticly done, thanks to containers… ✏
10:49:57 jonas’ has nothing to do with containers
10:50:00 Link Mauve Oh?
10:50:03 jonas’ but everything with lack of configuration management
10:50:36 jonas’ the containers are just a band-aid around the former, alleviating some of the pains in that regard (because some config is baked into the containers instead of handled ad-hoc on nodes)
10:50:50 jonas’ but the core issue is that there’s no config management
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11:10:00 Guus would you expect to find messages that were shared with a MUC room in MAM responses from a personal archive?
11:10:42 Link Mauve ~~I’ say no, I would expect them only in the MUC archive.~~ ✎
11:10:48 Link Mauve I’d say no, I would expect them only in the MUC archive. ✏
11:11:11 Guus ~~Openfire doing a catch-all where the 'to' and 'from' matches the addressee, which also captures some MUC messages (notably, when you're online)~~ ✎
11:11:31 Kev I would, yes.
11:12:00 Guus I just helped a customer that was confused that it got inconsistent group chat history while querying MAM - they were querying personal archives, rather than the MUC address.
11:12:04 Guus Easily fixed, but it made me wonder.
11:12:18 Guus Openfire doing a catch-all where the 'to' and 'from' matches the addressee, which also captures some MUC messages (notably, when you're in the room) ✏
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11:14:45 Guus Although I can see how MUC messages would technically end up in personal archives, I wonder what the value of those are. Chances of it not being a consistent history are large, I think?
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11:15:07 jonas’ Guus, congratulations, you just rediscovered one of the key issues with MIX :)
11:15:32 Guus Am I not more than 5 years late to the party?
11:16:02 Kev Don't you mean one of the key issues with MUC that's resolved with MIX? :)
11:16:54 jonas’ Kev, no?
11:16:59 jonas’ in MUC, nobody expects messages to be in the account archive
11:17:05 Kev I do.
11:17:12 jonas’ it’s not specified anywhere tho
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11:17:16 Guus (I can't help but read that in a Monty Python voice)
11:17:17 jonas’ ~~in MIX, everybody does, and MIX does not specify how to recover from s2s outagfes~~ ✎
11:17:25 jonas’ in MIX, everybody does, and MIX does not specify how to recover from s2s outages ✏
11:18:16 Kev "not specified anywhere" to the tune of "A server SHOULD also include messages of type 'groupchat' that have a <body>, but where such history is accessible through another method (e.g. through an archive on the MUC JID)" ? ✎
11:18:30 Kev "not specified anywhere" to the tune of "A server SHOULD also include messages of type 'groupchat' that have a <body>" ? ✏
11:19:28 jonas’ fun, I don’t know of any client which looks there for MUC archives. I seem to even recall that people wanted type='groupchat' explicitly excluded from their MAM results because it would be inconsistent and waste bandwidth for nothing ;)
11:20:09 Kev It's not 'nothing' though, is it?
11:20:38 Kev If I want to find a message that I know I sent about X, I shouldn't need to remember where I sent it in order to find it, I should just query my archive.
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11:20:59 eta well the issue with that is, if all your clients are offline your MUC archive won't populate
11:21:02 eta because you're not in any MUCs
11:21:12 jonas’ ~~Kev, you’re of course using E2EE so you can’t query your archive for X and have to rely on your local archive anyways /s~~ ✎
11:21:17 Kev Yes, but I also probably didn't send or receive any messages to the MUC while I was offline :)
11:21:29 jonas’ Kev, you’re of course using E2EE so you can’t query your server archive for X and have to rely on your local archive anyways /s ✏
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11:26:36 Guus in your specific case, I wouldn't put it past you, but generically, I think you're right 🙂
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11:28:02 Guus I'm guessing the benefits and drawbacks, functionality wise, might be roughly in balance on this?
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11:31:54 Guus consensus on implementation might be good. Following the specification is a good place to start, I guess 🙂
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18:50:17 edhelas hi everyone
18:50:34 edhelas i had a look at XEP-0402, looks great 💕
18:51:27 edhelas but I already had a bookmarks:0 implementation in Movim, and 0411 explains how to convert between 0049 and 0402
18:51:43 edhelas i'm wondering how I can do the transition smoothly
18:51:55 edhelas from :0 to :1
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19:23:36 lovetox edhelas, the only difference is the <extension> container or not?
19:23:52 lovetox what is there to migrate?
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19:24:24 pep. lovetox, I guess the question is mostly on what to push where. push :0 or push :1 and handle deletion on the other side or not etc.
19:24:42 pep. Link Mauve, was your mod_bookmarks2 handling conversion?
19:25:19 Link Mauve pep., yes, but only between 0049-Private XML and 0402, not between 0049-PEP and 0402.
19:25:21 lovetox im confused, it the question how to migrate from bookmarks:0 to 1?
19:25:24 pep. ah edhelas, in 402 it's written "urn:xmpp:bookmarks:1#compat"
19:25:26 Link Mauve Due to Prosody internals reasons.
19:25:31 lovetox or from other bookmark xeps to 402
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