XSF Discussion - 2020-07-14

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!XSF_Martin 10:26:48
Why there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/occupant-id.html and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0421.html?
jonas’ 10:26:58
because we don’t delete stuff from the inbox currently
!XSF_Martin 10:27:08
During my first search i found the first and thought it's not yet accepted and later I found the second.
jonas’ 10:27:15
and we can’t set redirects :(
jonas’ 10:27:24
probably deleting would be a good thing then
!XSF_Martin 10:27:27
jonas’: That's irritating if your search engine isn't as clever as google. :(
jonas’ 10:27:37
I agree
jonas’ 10:27:46
but deleting is also meh regarding reading mailing list history
jonas’ 10:27:53
(but so would redirects)
pep. 10:28:24
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/738
jonas’ 10:28:44
or that, yesn
jonas’ 10:29:06
!XSF_Martin, I hear you want to join the editor team....
!XSF_Martin 10:29:13
:D
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Link Mauve 10:49:01
jonas’, you could do a HTML redirect instead of an actual deletion.
jonas’ 10:49:15
Link Mauve, would also require changes to the schema as in #738
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Link Mauve 10:49:34
~~That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated thanks to containers…~~ ✎
Link Mauve 10:49:46
That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated to be realisticly thanks to containers… ✏
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Link Mauve 10:49:51
That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated to be realisticly done, thanks to containers… ✏
jonas’ 10:49:57
has nothing to do with containers
Link Mauve 10:50:00
Oh?
jonas’ 10:50:03
but everything with lack of configuration management
jonas’ 10:50:36
the containers are just a band-aid around the former, alleviating some of the pains in that regard (because some config is baked into the containers instead of handled ad-hoc on nodes)
jonas’ 10:50:50
but the core issue is that there’s no config management
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Guus 11:10:00
would you expect to find messages that were shared with a MUC room in MAM responses from a personal archive?
Link Mauve 11:10:42
~~I’ say no, I would expect them only in the MUC archive.~~ ✎
Link Mauve 11:10:48
I’d say no, I would expect them only in the MUC archive. ✏
Guus 11:11:11
~~Openfire doing a catch-all where the 'to' and 'from' matches the addressee, which also captures some MUC messages (notably, when you're online)~~ ✎
Kev 11:11:31
I would, yes.
Guus 11:12:00
I just helped a customer that was confused that it got inconsistent group chat history while querying MAM - they were querying personal archives, rather than the MUC address.
Guus 11:12:04
Easily fixed, but it made me wonder.
Guus 11:12:18
Openfire doing a catch-all where the 'to' and 'from' matches the addressee, which also captures some MUC messages (notably, when you're in the room) ✏
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Guus 11:14:45
Although I can see how MUC messages would technically end up in personal archives, I wonder what the value of those are. Chances of it not being a consistent history are large, I think?
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jonas’ 11:15:07
Guus, congratulations, you just rediscovered one of the key issues with MIX :)
Guus 11:15:32
Am I not more than 5 years late to the party?
Kev 11:16:02
Don't you mean one of the key issues with MUC that's resolved with MIX? :)
jonas’ 11:16:54
Kev, no?
jonas’ 11:16:59
in MUC, nobody expects messages to be in the account archive
Kev 11:17:05
I do.
jonas’ 11:17:12
it’s not specified anywhere tho
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Guus 11:17:16
(I can't help but read that in a Monty Python voice)
jonas’ 11:17:17
~~in MIX, everybody does, and MIX does not specify how to recover from s2s outagfes~~ ✎
jonas’ 11:17:25
in MIX, everybody does, and MIX does not specify how to recover from s2s outages ✏
Kev 11:18:16
"not specified anywhere" to the tune of "A server SHOULD also include messages of type 'groupchat' that have a <body>, but where such history is accessible through another method (e.g. through an archive on the MUC JID)" ? ✎
Kev 11:18:30
"not specified anywhere" to the tune of "A server SHOULD also include messages of type 'groupchat' that have a <body>" ? ✏
jonas’ 11:19:28
fun, I don’t know of any client which looks there for MUC archives. I seem to even recall that people wanted type='groupchat' explicitly excluded from their MAM results because it would be inconsistent and waste bandwidth for nothing ;)
Kev 11:20:09
It's not 'nothing' though, is it?
Kev 11:20:38
If I want to find a message that I know I sent about X, I shouldn't need to remember where I sent it in order to find it, I should just query my archive.
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eta 11:20:59
well the issue with that is, if all your clients are offline your MUC archive won't populate
eta 11:21:02
because you're not in any MUCs
jonas’ 11:21:12
~~Kev, you’re of course using E2EE so you can’t query your archive for X and have to rely on your local archive anyways /s~~ ✎
Kev 11:21:17
Yes, but I also probably didn't send or receive any messages to the MUC while I was offline :)
jonas’ 11:21:29
Kev, you’re of course using E2EE so you can’t query your server archive for X and have to rely on your local archive anyways /s ✏
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Guus 11:26:36
in your specific case, I wouldn't put it past you, but generically, I think you're right 🙂
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Guus 11:28:02
I'm guessing the benefits and drawbacks, functionality wise, might be roughly in balance on this?
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Guus 11:31:54
consensus on implementation might be good. Following the specification is a good place to start, I guess 🙂
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edhelas 18:50:17
hi everyone
edhelas 18:50:34
i had a look at XEP-0402, looks great 💕
edhelas 18:51:27
but I already had a bookmarks:0 implementation in Movim, and 0411 explains how to convert between 0049 and 0402
edhelas 18:51:43
i'm wondering how I can do the transition smoothly
edhelas 18:51:55
from :0 to :1
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lovetox 19:23:36
edhelas, the only difference is the <extension> container or not?
lovetox 19:23:52
what is there to migrate?
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pep. 19:24:24
lovetox, I guess the question is mostly on what to push where. push :0 or push :1 and handle deletion on the other side or not etc.
pep. 19:24:42
Link Mauve, was your mod_bookmarks2 handling conversion?
Link Mauve 19:25:19
pep., yes, but only between 0049-Private XML and 0402, not between 0049-PEP and 0402.
lovetox 19:25:21
im confused, it the question how to migrate from bookmarks:0 to 1?
pep. 19:25:24
ah edhelas, in 402 it's written "urn:xmpp:bookmarks:1#compat"
Link Mauve 19:25:26
Due to Prosody internals reasons.
lovetox 19:25:31
or from other bookmark xeps to 402
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