XSF Discussion - 2020-07-14

  1. darkijah has joined

  2. darkijah has left

  3. Shell has joined

  4. Shell has left

  5. strypey has left

  6. alameyo has joined

  7. stpeter has left

  8. Wojtek has left

  9. jmpman has left

  10. stpeter has joined

  11. alameyo has left

  12. alameyo has joined

  13. mukt2 has left

  14. stpeter has left

  15. emus has left

  16. andrey.g has left

  17. sonny has left

  18. sonny has joined

  19. mukt2 has joined

  20. mukt2 has left

  21. neshtaxmpp has left

  22. sonny has left

  23. neshtaxmpp has joined

  24. sonny has joined

  25. alameyo has left

  26. alameyo has joined

  27. mukt2 has joined

  28. stpeter has joined

  29. arc has left

  30. arc has joined

  31. sonny has left

  32. sonny has joined

  33. ralphm has left

  34. intosi has left

  35. mukt2 has left

  36. stpeter has left

  37. jmpman has joined

  38. sonny has left

  39. sonny has joined

  40. arc has left

  41. arc has joined

  42. arc has left

  43. arc has joined

  44. waqas has left

  45. Andrzej has joined

  46. sonny has left

  47. sonny has joined

  48. arc has left

  49. arc has joined

  50. arc has left

  51. arc has joined

  52. arc has left

  53. arc has joined

  54. sonny has left

  55. sonny has joined

  56. arc has left

  57. arc has joined

  58. arc has left

  59. arc has joined

  60. jmpman has left

  61. neshtaxmpp has left

  62. APach has joined

  63. Andrzej has left

  64. Seve has joined

  65. neshtaxmpp has joined

  66. arc has left

  67. arc has joined

  68. sonny has left

  69. sonny has joined

  70. neshtaxmpp has left

  71. neshtaxmpp has joined

  72. neshtaxmpp has left

  73. arc has left

  74. arc has joined

  75. adiaholic_ has left

  76. adiaholic_ has joined

  77. Tobias has joined

  78. stpeter has joined

  79. adiaholic_ has left

  80. adiaholic_ has joined

  81. stpeter has left

  82. APach has left

  83. APach has joined

  84. arc has left

  85. arc has joined

  86. Jeybe has joined

  87. arc has left

  88. arc has joined

  89. arc has left

  90. arc has joined

  91. Tobias has left

  92. Tobias has joined

  93. lorddavidiii has joined

  94. neshtaxmpp has joined

  95. paul has joined

  96. aj has joined

  97. aj has left

  98. neshtaxmpp has left

  99. Mikaela has joined

  100. jmpman has joined

  101. jcbrand has joined

  102. neshtaxmpp has joined

  103. debacle has joined

  104. neshtaxmpp has left

  105. sonny has left

  106. sonny has joined

  107. sonny has left

  108. Andrzej has joined

  109. sonny has joined

  110. LNJ has joined

  111. Unlife has left

  112. sonny has left

  113. Unlife has joined

  114. neshtaxmpp has joined

  115. neshtaxmpp has left

  116. neshtaxmpp has joined

  117. sonny has joined

  118. j.r has left

  119. Andrzej has left

  120. stpeter has joined

  121. andrey.g has joined

  122. goffi has joined

  123. karoshi has joined

  124. Andrzej has joined

  125. jmpman has left

  126. stpeter has left

  127. andrey.g has left

  128. emus has joined

  129. marc has joined

  130. sonny has left

  131. sonny has joined

  132. flow has left

  133. flow has joined

  134. neshtaxmpp has left

  135. sonny has left

  136. sonny has joined

  137. intosi has joined

  138. krauq has left

  139. ralphm has joined

  140. Andrzej has left

  141. j.r has joined

  142. lobodelrayo has left

  143. moparisthebest has left

  144. krauq has joined

  145. marc has left

  146. neshtaxmpp has joined

  147. lskdjf has joined

  148. neshtaxmpp has left

  149. neshtaxmpp has joined

  150. mukt2 has joined

  151. !XSF_Martin has left

  152. !XSF_Martin has joined

  153. neshtaxmpp has left

  154. neshtaxmpp has joined

  155. mukt2 has left

  156. Jeybe has left

  157. adiaholic_ has left

  158. adiaholic_ has joined

  159. Jeybe has joined

  160. Kev has joined

  161. stpeter has joined

  162. debacle has left

  163. stpeter has left

  164. Andrzej has joined

  165. paul has left

  166. paul has joined

  167. paul has left

  168. paul has joined

  169. sonny has left

  170. sonny has joined

  171. Shell has joined

  172. mukt2 has joined

  173. serge90 has left

  174. serge90 has joined

  175. serge90 has left

  176. serge90 has joined

  177. Andrzej has left

  178. arc has left

  179. arc has joined

  180. Alex has left

  181. serge90 has left

  182. serge90 has joined

  183. nyco has left

  184. nyco has joined

  185. mukt2 has left

  186. mukt2 has joined

  187. Alex has joined

  188. paul has left

  189. jmpman has joined

  190. serge90 has left

  191. serge90 has joined

  192. mukt2 has left

  193. mukt2 has joined

  194. serge90 has left

  195. serge90 has joined

  196. jmpman has left

  197. serge90 has left

  198. serge90 has joined

  199. serge90 has left

  200. serge90 has joined

  201. serge90 has left

  202. serge90 has joined

  203. !XSF_Martin

    Why there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/occupant-id.html and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0421.html?

  204. jonas’

    because we don’t delete stuff from the inbox currently

  205. !XSF_Martin

    During my first search i found the first and thought it's not yet accepted and later I found the second.

  206. jonas’

    and we can’t set redirects :(

  207. jonas’

    probably deleting would be a good thing then

  208. !XSF_Martin

    jonas’: That's irritating if your search engine isn't as clever as google. :(

  209. jonas’

    I agree

  210. jonas’

    but deleting is also meh regarding reading mailing list history

  211. jonas’

    (but so would redirects)

  212. pep.


  213. jonas’

    or that, yesn

  214. jonas’

    !XSF_Martin, I hear you want to join the editor team....

  215. !XSF_Martin


  216. stpeter has joined

  217. sonny has left

  218. sonny has joined

  219. marc has joined

  220. arc has left

  221. arc has joined

  222. Link Mauve

    jonas’, you could do a HTML redirect instead of an actual deletion.

  223. jonas’

    Link Mauve, would also require changes to the schema as in #738

  224. j.r has left

  225. Link Mauve

    That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated thanks to containers…

  226. Link Mauve

    That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated to be realisticly thanks to containers…

  227. j.r has joined

  228. Link Mauve

    That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated to be realisticly done, thanks to containers…

  229. jonas’

    has nothing to do with containers

  230. Link Mauve


  231. jonas’

    but everything with lack of configuration management

  232. jonas’

    the containers are just a band-aid around the former, alleviating some of the pains in that regard (because some config is baked into the containers instead of handled ad-hoc on nodes)

  233. jonas’

    but the core issue is that there’s no config management

  234. kuvoh has joined

  235. kuvoh has left

  236. kuvoh has joined

  237. debacle has joined

  238. stpeter has left

  239. paul has joined

  240. larma has left

  241. larma has joined

  242. Andrzej has joined

  243. rion has left

  244. rion has joined

  245. Guus

    would you expect to find messages that were shared with a MUC room in MAM responses from a personal archive?

  246. Link Mauve

    I’ say no, I would expect them only in the MUC archive.

  247. Link Mauve

    I’d say no, I would expect them only in the MUC archive.

  248. Guus

    Openfire doing a catch-all where the 'to' and 'from' matches the addressee, which also captures some MUC messages (notably, when you're online)

  249. Kev

    I would, yes.

  250. Guus

    I just helped a customer that was confused that it got inconsistent group chat history while querying MAM - they were querying personal archives, rather than the MUC address.

  251. Guus

    Easily fixed, but it made me wonder.

  252. Guus

    Openfire doing a catch-all where the 'to' and 'from' matches the addressee, which also captures some MUC messages (notably, when you're in the room)

  253. govanify has left

  254. govanify has joined

  255. govanify has left

  256. Guus

    Although I can see how MUC messages would technically end up in personal archives, I wonder what the value of those are. Chances of it not being a consistent history are large, I think?

  257. govanify has joined

  258. jonas’

    Guus, congratulations, you just rediscovered one of the key issues with MIX :)

  259. Guus

    Am I not more than 5 years late to the party?

  260. Kev

    Don't you mean one of the key issues with MUC that's resolved with MIX? :)

  261. jonas’

    Kev, no?

  262. jonas’

    in MUC, nobody expects messages to be in the account archive

  263. Kev

    I do.

  264. jonas’

    it’s not specified anywhere tho

  265. neshtaxmpp has left

  266. Guus

    (I can't help but read that in a Monty Python voice)

  267. jonas’

    in MIX, everybody does, and MIX does not specify how to recover from s2s outagfes

  268. jonas’

    in MIX, everybody does, and MIX does not specify how to recover from s2s outages

  269. Kev

    "not specified anywhere" to the tune of "A server SHOULD also include messages of type 'groupchat' that have a <body>, but where such history is accessible through another method (e.g. through an archive on the MUC JID)" ?

  270. Kev

    "not specified anywhere" to the tune of "A server SHOULD also include messages of type 'groupchat' that have a <body>" ?

  271. jonas’

    fun, I don’t know of any client which looks there for MUC archives. I seem to even recall that people wanted type='groupchat' explicitly excluded from their MAM results because it would be inconsistent and waste bandwidth for nothing ;)

  272. Kev

    It's not 'nothing' though, is it?

  273. Kev

    If I want to find a message that I know I sent about X, I shouldn't need to remember where I sent it in order to find it, I should just query my archive.

  274. xsf has left

  275. eta

    well the issue with that is, if all your clients are offline your MUC archive won't populate

  276. eta

    because you're not in any MUCs

  277. jonas’

    Kev, you’re of course using E2EE so you can’t query your archive for X and have to rely on your local archive anyways /s

  278. Kev

    Yes, but I also probably didn't send or receive any messages to the MUC while I was offline :)

  279. jonas’

    Kev, you’re of course using E2EE so you can’t query your server archive for X and have to rely on your local archive anyways /s

  280. neshtaxmpp has joined

  281. darkijah has joined

  282. kuvoh has left

  283. darkijah has left

  284. larma has left

  285. govanify has left

  286. Guus

    in your specific case, I wouldn't put it past you, but generically, I think you're right 🙂

  287. govanify has joined

  288. Andrzej has left

  289. Guus

    I'm guessing the benefits and drawbacks, functionality wise, might be roughly in balance on this?

  290. larma has joined

  291. sonny has left

  292. sonny has joined

  293. Guus

    consensus on implementation might be good. Following the specification is a good place to start, I guess 🙂

  294. j.r has left

  295. j.r has joined

  296. marc has left

  297. j.r has left

  298. j.r has joined

  299. sonny has left

  300. sonny has joined

  301. sonny has left

  302. sonny has joined

  303. strypey has joined

  304. sonny has left

  305. sonny has joined

  306. thorsten has joined

  307. jmpman has joined

  308. sonny has left

  309. sonny has joined

  310. papatutuwawa has joined

  311. papatutuwawa has left

  312. papatutuwawa has joined

  313. marc has joined

  314. Shell has left

  315. neshtaxmpp has left

  316. stpeter has joined

  317. moparisthebest has joined

  318. lobodelrayo has joined

  319. Andrzej has joined

  320. stpeter has left

  321. marc has left

  322. marc has joined

  323. nyco has left

  324. eevvoor has joined

  325. jmpman has left

  326. karoshi has left

  327. marc has left

  328. karoshi has joined

  329. marc has joined

  330. darkijah has joined

  331. stpeter has joined

  332. nyco has joined

  333. chris has left

  334. chris has joined

  335. darkijah has left

  336. Wojtek has joined

  337. xecks has left

  338. xecks has joined

  339. papatutuwawa has left

  340. mukt2 has left

  341. nyco has left

  342. j.r has left

  343. mukt2 has joined

  344. j.r has joined

  345. neshtaxmpp has joined

  346. nyco has joined

  347. nyco has left

  348. Andrzej has left

  349. mukt2 has left

  350. mukt2 has joined

  351. karoshi has left

  352. goffi has left

  353. j.r has left

  354. j.r has joined

  355. Neustradamus has left

  356. Neustradamus has joined

  357. karoshi has joined

  358. jmpman has joined

  359. mukt2 has left

  360. kuvoh has joined

  361. mukt2 has joined

  362. kuvoh has left

  363. strypey has left

  364. oguzeducationcenter has joined

  365. nyco has joined

  366. sonny has left

  367. sonny has joined

  368. goffi has joined

  369. nyco has left

  370. papatutuwawa has joined

  371. nyco has joined

  372. jmpman has left

  373. nyco has left

  374. nyco has joined

  375. j.r has left

  376. j.r has joined

  377. lovetox has joined

  378. sonny has left

  379. sonny has joined

  380. lorddavidiii has left

  381. nyco has left

  382. lorddavidiii has joined

  383. sonny has left

  384. sonny has joined

  385. Half-Shot has left

  386. Bifrost Bot has left

  387. uhoreg has left

  388. Andrzej has joined

  389. Half-Shot has joined

  390. uhoreg has joined

  391. Bifrost Bot has joined

  392. sonny has left

  393. sonny has joined

  394. nyco has joined

  395. adiaholic_ has left

  396. papatutuwawa has left

  397. debacle has left

  398. citizenzibb has left

  399. citizenzibb has joined

  400. Shell has joined

  401. citizenzibb has left

  402. citizenzibb has joined

  403. citizenzibb has left

  404. citizenzibb has joined

  405. papatutuwawa has joined

  406. citizenzibb has left

  407. papatutuwawa has left

  408. citizenzibb has joined

  409. papatutuwawa has joined

  410. adiaholic_ has joined

  411. thorsten has left

  412. Shell has left

  413. sonny has left

  414. sonny has joined

  415. lobodelrayo has left

  416. APach has left

  417. adiaholic_ has left

  418. neshtaxmpp has left

  419. APach has joined

  420. mukt2 has left

  421. mukt2 has joined

  422. karoshi has left

  423. debacle has joined

  424. Afrogeek has joined

  425. marc has left

  426. Unlife has left

  427. Unlife has joined

  428. karoshi has joined

  429. mukt2 has left

  430. mukt2 has joined

  431. Afrogeek has left

  432. mukt2 has left

  433. mukt2 has joined

  434. marc has joined

  435. adiaholic_ has joined

  436. marc has left

  437. Shell has joined

  438. Nekit has left

  439. krauq has left

  440. dwd has left

  441. dwd has joined

  442. arc has left

  443. arc has joined

  444. papatutuwawa has left

  445. papatutuwawa has joined

  446. papatutuwawa has left

  447. krauq has joined

  448. papatutuwawa has joined

  449. dwd has left

  450. dwd has joined

  451. krauq has left

  452. darkijah has joined

  453. krauq has joined

  454. dwd has left

  455. dwd has joined

  456. govanify has left

  457. govanify has joined

  458. lovetox has left

  459. Neustradamus has left

  460. lovetox has joined

  461. Neustradamus has joined

  462. darkijah has left

  463. darkijah has joined

  464. darkijah has left

  465. darkijah has joined

  466. dwd has left

  467. thorsten has joined

  468. nyco has left

  469. neshtaxmpp has joined

  470. dwd has joined

  471. neshtaxmpp has left

  472. oguzeducationcenter has left

  473. oguzeducationcenter has joined

  474. edhelas

    hi everyone

  475. edhelas

    i had a look at XEP-0402, looks great 💕

  476. edhelas

    but I already had a bookmarks:0 implementation in Movim, and 0411 explains how to convert between 0049 and 0402

  477. edhelas

    i'm wondering how I can do the transition smoothly

  478. edhelas

    from :0 to :1

  479. marc has joined

  480. govanify has left

  481. arc has left

  482. govanify has joined

  483. arc has joined

  484. adiaholic_ has left

  485. adiaholic_ has joined

  486. oguzeducationcenter has left

  487. govanify has left

  488. govanify has joined

  489. govanify has left

  490. oguzeducationcenter has joined

  491. govanify has joined

  492. Nekit has joined

  493. nyco has joined

  494. govanify has left

  495. govanify has joined

  496. debacle has left

  497. oguzeducationcenter has left

  498. Nekit has left

  499. adiaholic_ has left

  500. adiaholic_ has joined

  501. arc has left

  502. arc has joined

  503. lovetox

    edhelas, the only difference is the <extension> container or not?

  504. lovetox

    what is there to migrate?

  505. arc has left

  506. arc has joined

  507. pep.

    lovetox, I guess the question is mostly on what to push where. push :0 or push :1 and handle deletion on the other side or not etc.

  508. pep.

    Link Mauve, was your mod_bookmarks2 handling conversion?

  509. Link Mauve

    pep., yes, but only between 0049-Private XML and 0402, not between 0049-PEP and 0402.

  510. lovetox

    im confused, it the question how to migrate from bookmarks:0 to 1?

  511. pep.

    ah edhelas, in 402 it's written "urn:xmpp:bookmarks:1#compat"

  512. Link Mauve

    Due to Prosody internals reasons.

  513. lovetox

    or from other bookmark xeps to 402

  514. neshtaxmpp has joined

  515. Unlife has left

  516. Unlife has joined

  517. marc has left

  518. neshtaxmpp has left

  519. marc has joined

  520. mukt2 has left

  521. Andrzej has left

  522. neshtaxmpp has joined

  523. mukt2 has joined

  524. adiaholic_ has left

  525. Unlife has left

  526. Unlife has joined

  527. xsf has joined

  528. arc has left

  529. arc has joined

  530. arc has left

  531. arc has joined

  532. werdan has joined

  533. lobodelrayo has joined

  534. Wojtek has left

  535. arc has left

  536. arc has joined

  537. lorddavidiii has left

  538. papatutuwawa has left

  539. krauq has left

  540. adiaholic_ has joined

  541. adiaholic_ has left

  542. adiaholic_ has joined

  543. eevvoor has left

  544. eevvoor has joined

  545. Tobias has left

  546. werdan has left

  547. darkijah has left

  548. marc has left

  549. darkijah has joined

  550. krauq has joined

  551. Shell has left

  552. Mikaela has left

  553. Mikaela has joined

  554. lovetox has left

  555. j.r has left

  556. Shell has joined

  557. govanify has left

  558. govanify has joined

  559. arc has left

  560. arc has joined

  561. arc has left

  562. arc has joined

  563. emus has left

  564. emus has joined

  565. eevvoor has left

  566. robertooo has left

  567. robertooo has joined

  568. oguzeducationcenter has joined

  569. j.r has joined

  570. goffi has left

  571. Neustradamus has left

  572. Neustradamus has joined

  573. Mikaela has left

  574. mukt2 has left

  575. jcbrand has left

  576. neshtaxmpp has left

  577. karoshi has left

  578. neshtaxmpp has joined

  579. jmpman has joined

  580. alameyo has left

  581. darkijah has left

  582. darkijah has joined

  583. mukt2 has joined

  584. alameyo has joined

  585. darkijah has left

  586. darkijah has joined

  587. darkijah has left

  588. darkijah has joined

  589. mukt2 has left

  590. Shell has left

  591. mukt2 has joined

  592. oguzeducationcenter has left

  593. lobodelrayo has left

  594. lobodelrayo has joined

  595. lobodelrayo has left

  596. lobodelrayo has joined

  597. moparisthebest has left

  598. darkijah has left

  599. darkijah has joined

  600. lskdjf has left

  601. adiaholic_ has left

  602. jmpman has left

  603. govanify has left

  604. govanify has joined

  605. mukt2 has left

  606. mukt2 has joined

  607. oguzeducationcenter has joined

  608. adiaholic_ has joined

  609. oguzeducationcenter has left

  610. moparisthebest has joined

  611. mukt2 has left

  612. mukt2 has joined

  613. Neustradamus has left

  614. oguzeducationcenter has joined

  615. oguzeducationcenter has left