XSF Discussion - 2020-07-14


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  203. !XSF_Martin Why there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/occupant-id.html and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0421.html?
  204. jonas’ because we don’t delete stuff from the inbox currently
  205. !XSF_Martin During my first search i found the first and thought it's not yet accepted and later I found the second.
  206. jonas’ and we can’t set redirects :(
  207. jonas’ probably deleting would be a good thing then
  208. !XSF_Martin jonas’: That's irritating if your search engine isn't as clever as google. :(
  209. jonas’ I agree
  210. jonas’ but deleting is also meh regarding reading mailing list history
  211. jonas’ (but so would redirects)
  212. pep. https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/738
  213. jonas’ or that, yesn
  214. jonas’ !XSF_Martin, I hear you want to join the editor team....
  215. !XSF_Martin :D
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  222. Link Mauve jonas’, you could do a HTML redirect instead of an actual deletion.
  223. jonas’ Link Mauve, would also require changes to the schema as in #738
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  225. Link Mauve That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated thanks to containers…
  226. Link Mauve That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated to be realisticly thanks to containers…
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  228. Link Mauve That’s way worse than being able to configure the web server, but since this is now a task too complicated to be realisticly done, thanks to containers…
  229. jonas’ has nothing to do with containers
  230. Link Mauve Oh?
  231. jonas’ but everything with lack of configuration management
  232. jonas’ the containers are just a band-aid around the former, alleviating some of the pains in that regard (because some config is baked into the containers instead of handled ad-hoc on nodes)
  233. jonas’ but the core issue is that there’s no config management
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  245. Guus would you expect to find messages that were shared with a MUC room in MAM responses from a personal archive?
  246. Link Mauve I’ say no, I would expect them only in the MUC archive.
  247. Link Mauve I’d say no, I would expect them only in the MUC archive.
  248. Guus Openfire doing a catch-all where the 'to' and 'from' matches the addressee, which also captures some MUC messages (notably, when you're online)
  249. Kev I would, yes.
  250. Guus I just helped a customer that was confused that it got inconsistent group chat history while querying MAM - they were querying personal archives, rather than the MUC address.
  251. Guus Easily fixed, but it made me wonder.
  252. Guus Openfire doing a catch-all where the 'to' and 'from' matches the addressee, which also captures some MUC messages (notably, when you're in the room)
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  256. Guus Although I can see how MUC messages would technically end up in personal archives, I wonder what the value of those are. Chances of it not being a consistent history are large, I think?
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  258. jonas’ Guus, congratulations, you just rediscovered one of the key issues with MIX :)
  259. Guus Am I not more than 5 years late to the party?
  260. Kev Don't you mean one of the key issues with MUC that's resolved with MIX? :)
  261. jonas’ Kev, no?
  262. jonas’ in MUC, nobody expects messages to be in the account archive
  263. Kev I do.
  264. jonas’ it’s not specified anywhere tho
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  266. Guus (I can't help but read that in a Monty Python voice)
  267. jonas’ in MIX, everybody does, and MIX does not specify how to recover from s2s outagfes
  268. jonas’ in MIX, everybody does, and MIX does not specify how to recover from s2s outages
  269. Kev "not specified anywhere" to the tune of "A server SHOULD also include messages of type 'groupchat' that have a <body>, but where such history is accessible through another method (e.g. through an archive on the MUC JID)" ?
  270. Kev "not specified anywhere" to the tune of "A server SHOULD also include messages of type 'groupchat' that have a <body>" ?
  271. jonas’ fun, I don’t know of any client which looks there for MUC archives. I seem to even recall that people wanted type='groupchat' explicitly excluded from their MAM results because it would be inconsistent and waste bandwidth for nothing ;)
  272. Kev It's not 'nothing' though, is it?
  273. Kev If I want to find a message that I know I sent about X, I shouldn't need to remember where I sent it in order to find it, I should just query my archive.
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  275. eta well the issue with that is, if all your clients are offline your MUC archive won't populate
  276. eta because you're not in any MUCs
  277. jonas’ Kev, you’re of course using E2EE so you can’t query your archive for X and have to rely on your local archive anyways /s
  278. Kev Yes, but I also probably didn't send or receive any messages to the MUC while I was offline :)
  279. jonas’ Kev, you’re of course using E2EE so you can’t query your server archive for X and have to rely on your local archive anyways /s
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  286. Guus in your specific case, I wouldn't put it past you, but generically, I think you're right 🙂
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  289. Guus I'm guessing the benefits and drawbacks, functionality wise, might be roughly in balance on this?
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  293. Guus consensus on implementation might be good. Following the specification is a good place to start, I guess 🙂
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  474. edhelas hi everyone
  475. edhelas i had a look at XEP-0402, looks great 💕
  476. edhelas but I already had a bookmarks:0 implementation in Movim, and 0411 explains how to convert between 0049 and 0402
  477. edhelas i'm wondering how I can do the transition smoothly
  478. edhelas from :0 to :1
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  503. lovetox edhelas, the only difference is the <extension> container or not?
  504. lovetox what is there to migrate?
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  507. pep. lovetox, I guess the question is mostly on what to push where. push :0 or push :1 and handle deletion on the other side or not etc.
  508. pep. Link Mauve, was your mod_bookmarks2 handling conversion?
  509. Link Mauve pep., yes, but only between 0049-Private XML and 0402, not between 0049-PEP and 0402.
  510. lovetox im confused, it the question how to migrate from bookmarks:0 to 1?
  511. pep. ah edhelas, in 402 it's written "urn:xmpp:bookmarks:1#compat"
  512. Link Mauve Due to Prosody internals reasons.
  513. lovetox or from other bookmark xeps to 402
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