XSF Discussion - 2020-07-21

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  181. waffles417 can soeone help me set up my pidgon?
  182. waffles417 someone*
  183. waffles417 intosi
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  185. intosi I see I missed the opportunity to handle a user support ticket for Pidgin.
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  258. edhelas hi folkds
  259. edhelas so i'm working on XEP-402 implementation
  260. edhelas with a small extension for Movim
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  263. edhelas <notifications xmlns="urn:movim:notifications:0" notify="all"/>
  264. edhelas i was wondering what other extensions you had in mind when forging the XEP ?
  265. edhelas (this extension will allow Movim users to configure per-room notifications, between none, when quoted and all)
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  281. Holger Oh it was renamed.
  282. jonas’ what was?
  283. Holger 0402
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  286. Holger This was Bookmarks 2, no?
  287. eta yeah
  288. Holger Ah, months ago.
  289. eta > This specification was originally entitled "Bookmarks 2: This Time It's Serious". Any implication of a sense of humour has been removed with the change in title.
  290. jonas’ MattJ, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/922 is that intentionally still Draft?
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  293. MattJ No, fixed
  294. MattJ I hadn't noticed it was draft, not used to that workflow :)
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  296. Link Mauve edhelas, don’t use urn:movim, it isn’t a registered URN name.
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  298. edhelas ah :p what should I use then ?
  299. MattJ This should be an FAQ somewhere
  300. Link Mauve I use xmpp:linkmauve.fr/feature-foo, but you can use any URI you’re in control of.
  301. Link Mauve HTTP is a popular one.
  302. Kev HTTPS, please. More secure.
  303. Kev ducks
  304. MattJ or urn:uuid:!
  305. Link Mauve :3
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  308. jonas’ MattJ, can you change the revision block to a more recent date?
  309. jonas’ ... it’ll save us some trouble.
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  312. MattJ Can do, maybe later or possibly tomorrow
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  315. jonas’ MattJ, ok, ping me
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  376. flow how does a s2s "receiving" server know that the initating server supports the dialback "same certificate" shortcut (xep344 § 2.7)?
  377. flow or will the receiving server just tolerate the initating server not taking the shortcut, even though the initating server just received a 'valid' db result?
  378. flow and if so, shouldn't the xep state that?
  379. jonas’ flow, note that your description of #972 on the ML is incomplete; it also changes the SHOULD for type="submit" to a MUST.
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  389. flow jonas’, I see how one could come to that conclusion, but if I am not mistaken there is no explicit statement about what to do for 'submit' type forms
  390. jonas’ flow, sorry, I was typing that from memory.
  391. jonas’ I meant for type="form", not for type="submit"
  392. flow ahh that SHOULD
  393. flow that is also ambiguous: does it may 'form' type forms SHOULD contain type annotation unless it's type-single (which is the default), *or*, does it mean that you can send/receive 'form' type forms without any type annotation at all?
  394. flow I tried to get rid of that ambiguity in the text, but I am not sure how successful I was
  395. flow s/does it may/does it mean/
  396. jonas’ flow, can you reformulate the ambiguity?
  397. jonas’ flow, I think it means both
  398. jonas’ I’m not sure how the parts to the left and right of your "or" contradict each other
  399. flow it's not really a contradicition, the latter obviouisly allows the former, but the former does not allow the latter
  400. jonas’ it does, depending on how strict you read SHOULD
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  402. flow the difference is, with one interpretation text-multi fields always have an 'type' attribute, with the other not
  403. jonas’ flow, for as much as things "always" happen with SHOULD (as opposed to MUST)
  404. jonas’ my reading is clearly that they SHOULD have the type attribute set
  405. jonas’ I don’t see how you can find another, more lax interpretation from the text, but I’d be curious to hear
  406. flow mine too, but that does not mean it's clear to everybody
  407. jonas’ but you must’ve had some reason to believe why one might read it differently?
  408. flow Sure, I read the sentence and found it ambiguous. The sentence is " For data forms of type "form", each <field/> element SHOULD possess a 'type' attribute that defines the data "type" of the field data" without the subordinate clause in the braces
  409. jonas’ how is that ambiguous?
  410. flow that sentence allone reads like you could (but you shouldn't) have 'form' type forms without any type annotations, even for text-multi
  411. jonas’ yes, that is clear so far
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  414. flow but that is my point, I think this is not what the XEP tries to state (nor what should be the case)
  415. jonas’ what do you think it’s trying to state instead?
  416. Zash flow: re dialback, no need to know that. the verifying server could do the verification any way it wanted, either by doing the actual dialing-back, checking the certificate, or flipping a coin
  417. flow jonas’, that it should have field type annotations unless the field is text-single
  418. Zash I will however assumet that you are as confused as me when looking at that XEP, everything is weird and worded backwards.
  419. flow because text-single is the default, and hence you can elide those
  420. flow Zash, but in the shortcase case there was no db:result by the initating server, nor a db:verify by the receiving one
  421. flow Zash, but in the shortcut case there was no db:result by the initating server, nor a db:verify by the receiving one
  422. jonas’ flow, right, even so, I don’t think that a MUST is a clarification there, but an outright change
  423. flow jonas’, I somehow assumed that it is consens that 'form' type forms must have field type annotations for all fields that are not text-single. If you think otherwise, then we should clarify this too
  424. flow jonas’, as I said, I may not be that successful with my attempt to clarify it
  425. jonas’ I fail to see how changing SHOULD -> MUST is a clarification in any world
  426. flow jonas’, but again it is now "MUST possess unless it is text-single"
  427. jonas’ and what if it is text-single? that is unclear now
  428. jonas’ (while that "@type defaults to 'text-single'" is clear.)
  429. flow the "default is text-single" statement is still there
  430. flow which could be probably be more elaborated
  431. flow jonas’, I think if I would simply s/MUST/SHOULD/ in the diff, then I would actually allow 'form' type fields without no type annotations, even for non text-single fields. And that is something I'd like to avoid
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  434. flow but I am happy about any suggestions on how to improve the wording
  435. jonas’ flow, sure, I’d like to avoid that too
  436. jonas’ but that goes beyond a clarification
  437. flow does it?
  438. jonas’ changes normative language in a Final document? yes.
  439. jonas’ that’s never a clarification, period.
  440. flow I assumed there is consensus that 'form' type fields need type annotations for fields other than text-single
  441. flow And if this is true, then I think this is nothing but a clarification
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