XSF Discussion - 2020-08-07

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  126. Alex

    I am using the Office365 silo, and it always ends up in SPAM there

  127. Ge0rG

    Alex: you could inspect the mail headers for why

  128. jonas’

    probably SPF

  129. Alex

    I did, my assumption maybe SPF or other Email records

  130. Alex

    its coming from nicolas.verite@nayego.net, not sure if all the records are setup correctly at TinyLetter/Mailchimo

  131. Alex

    I also think it should come from an XSF domain

  132. emus

    Me too jcbrand, Seve Do you agree that I head for to create an official CommTeam email?

  133. jonas’

    it won’t solve the problem though

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  135. emus

    Do you also think I should reach out to tinynewsletter/mailchimp about that SPF?

  136. jonas’

    they can’t do anything about that

  137. jonas’

    that’d be useless if they could

  138. MattJ

    The right thing to do is use an xmpp.org address and for us to add the SPF records

  139. jonas’

    that might work

  140. Alex


  141. jonas’

    and also allow mailchimp to spam on our behalf \o/

  142. emus

    MattJ: Thanks

  143. jonas’

    so the rightest thing to do is to deploy a subdomain for which we do that.

  144. Seve

    It was too troublesome to start the newsletter going through an XSF's email address just to try the concept out. But it looks like we are ready for an official address now :)

  145. emus

    Ok. Yes. I am sure jcbrand will support that

  146. emus

    xsf_commteam@ xmpp.org Seve jcbrand would that be okay for you as a potential adress?

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  148. jcbrand

    I think newsletter@xmpp.org is nicer, or otherwise comms@xmpp.org

  149. jcbrand

    No need to have underscores in an email address 🙂

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  153. MattJ

    Agree re. underscores, though I think it would be good to use a subdomain as jonas’ suggested

  154. Seve

    Was about to say exactly those

  155. Seve


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  161. jonas’

    please no underscores

  162. jonas’

    news@letter.xmpp.org? :)

  163. emus

    Lets keep the email general and not sticked to a task. Then I think commteam@xmpp.org is good

  164. emus

    jonas' no please not connected to a topic

  165. jonas’

    emus, but the address needs special settings because it is used for a newsletter

  166. emus

    Ah okay. And that is such a special setting that it should not be used for other email purposes?

  167. jonas’


  168. emus

    then make it newsletter@

  169. jonas’


  170. emus


  171. jonas’

    hence my proposal news@letter.xmpp.org, since it’s fun

  172. emus

    hmm... ok

  173. jonas’

    but we can also do newsletter@bulk.xmpp.org or something like that

  174. emus

    no, news@letter.xmpp.org is fine

  175. emus

    jcbrand seve ?

  176. jcbrand

    Newsletter is one word, so news@letter seems weird to me. Do we accept replies on that address? Otherwise we can do noreply@newsletter.xmpp.org

  177. jcbrand

    Actually in think the convention is usually no-reply@...

  178. jcbrand

    Actually I think the convention is usually no-reply@...

  179. Seve

    newsletter should go altogether in my opinion. Going with the no-reply seems the way to go?

  180. jonas’

    jcbrand, no-reply sounds like a plan

  181. jonas’

    since we won’t set up an inbound mailbox actually :)

  182. Seve


  183. MattJ

    Now if someone can write down on the iteam issue tracker exactly what DNS records need adding, I can look at it later or make sure jonas’ has access if he wants to

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  185. emus

    I'm fine with no-reply

  186. emus

    but wait

  187. emus

    If this is the registered email in Tinynewsletter ... will that be a problem to access the account?

  188. emus

    If there is no inbound?

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  191. emus

    Because in TinyNewsletter, the email you register, is the email you spam the world with

  192. emus

    At least it seem to be the case to me

  193. jonas’

    MattJ, OK, I’ll try to figure out which records we need

  194. emus

    There is only one field for Email. Nothing else, so I guess the email you put there is used for "everything"

  195. !XSF_Martin

    Authentication-Results: mail.mdosch.de; dkim=pass header.d=mail4.tinyletterapp.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=bounce-tl_1278521.8561570-spam-xmpp-org=mdosch.de@mail4.tinyletterapp.com X-Spamd-Bar: -

  196. !XSF_Martin

    DKIM and SPF seem to be OK.

  197. MattJ

    Uh, how exactly does it work?

  198. MattJ


  199. !XSF_Martin

    Here are all headers: https://paste.debian.net/1159517/

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  201. emus

    Thanks Martin

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  220. Alex

    Holger: the Q3 application period ends this week, lets go ;-) https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q3_2020

  221. jonas’

    Link Mauve, !!

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  225. emus

    jonas' is that an issue to have this email as the account email then? because in the end they prevent us from using the account?

  226. jonas’

    emus, I don’t quite get what you mean

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  228. MattJ

    jonas’, tinyletter sends from the email address you sign up with

  229. jonas’

    for certain definitions of "from the email address"

  230. jonas’

    ah, but you want to say the issue is that they’ll try to send transactional/account related email there?

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  232. MattJ

    They verify it, for starters, by sending you an email

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  235. emus

    Yes, thanks MattJ

  236. MattJ

    Right now I don't see an obvious reason why it doesn't go to spam ~100% of the time

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  238. emus

    Also a point

  239. Kev

    flow: re: sometimes bare JID and no to not being equivalent - 191 requires that you send stuff with no to, instead of bare JID.

  240. Kev

    (Although I think it entirely reasonable, and even desirable, to ignore that restriction on the server and process either)

  241. Kev

    (I think it was you who asked for an example the other days, sorry if I misremember)

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  243. flow

    Hmm, would we benefit from a standard boilerplate text for such situations? I.e. situations when you can use either no 'to' or put our own bare JID into to in XEPs?

  244. flow

    Kev, I also think it was me who asked btw

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  266. vanitasvitae

    Digging around the EAX XEPs right now. XEP-EAX-CAR (E2E Authentication in XMPP: CA Requirements) is in inbox since february of 2019. The council protocols state that Board has to decide whether or not to accept this specification since it is procedural.

  267. vanitasvitae

    However, I fail to find any records of this board meeting.

  268. vanitasvitae


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  271. vanitasvitae

    Are minutes of board meetings not send to standards@?

  272. Kev


  273. vanitasvitae


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  275. vanitasvitae

    Is it possible to access the members list archive?

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  277. jonas’

    yes, it’s as public as standards@

  278. jonas’


  279. vanitasvitae

    I didnt find it as it is not listed on https://xmpp.org/community/mailing-lists.html

  280. vanitasvitae

    Thanks :)

  281. Kev

    Yeah, it's not *quite* as public, but almost.

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  284. vanitasvitae

    Hm, I still fail to find any records of a board meeting that mentions XEP-EAX-CAR.

  285. Zash

    Weren't those retracted ?

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  288. vanitasvitae

    Does retracting a XEP trigger a Mail to be send out by the editor?

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  312. jonas’

    not in protoxep stage

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  492. lovetox


  493. lovetox

    this is wrong i think

  494. lovetox

    it says the data element IS ONLY for image/png

  495. lovetox

    which would mean its impossible to publish other formats

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  497. lovetox

    or maybe it really means that

  498. lovetox

    then why the fuck are we only allowed to publish image/png

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  512. Kev

    That's really what it's saying, yes. To publish anything else you have to use external links. Why I couldn't say.

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  514. Kev

    Well, presumably because everyone needs to do png in order to get interop.

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  516. lovetox

    thats fine, thats why it says, one of the info elements must be png/image

  517. lovetox

    fine, why though are other info elements not allowed to store data in pubsub

  518. lovetox

    that makes zero sense

  519. lovetox

    further, there is zero possibility this can lead to any confusion

  520. lovetox

    a client has to read the matadata info

  521. lovetox

    it reads the image-typ, then readys the pubsub item id

  522. lovetox

    it knows what it has to expect if it requests the content

  523. lovetox

    the XEP text sounds to me like there is no metadata

  524. lovetox

    or that the XEP can be used without metadata

  525. lovetox

    then this rule makes sense

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  531. lovetox

    seems the XEP had this in there, store all kind of images in pubsub

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  533. lovetox

    but it was changed to only image/png with version 0.7

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  536. lovetox

    or course without any comment in the changelog why

  537. lovetox

    i guess i will simply ignore this, as there is no reason or motiviation given in the XEP why only image/png should be stored

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