XSF Discussion - 2020-08-08

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04:41:30 MattJ XEP-0084 historical thread: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2005-April/007439.html
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04:42:20 MattJ Doesn't explain the PNG-only change, but clarifies that other formats were expected to be fallbacks
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05:21:01 lovetox this must be an oversight or mistake, maybe it was by accident
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08:48:44 Zash I haven't read it as png only. Rather that one of the possibility multiple formats must be png, but you can publish alternative formats
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09:05:24 MattJ The first point in section 3 says: "1. User publishes avatar data for "image/png" content-type to data node and optionally publishes other content-types to HTTP URLs."
09:06:10 MattJ That sounds very much like only PNG data is welcome in the PEP node, and the rest of the doc seems to back up such an interpretation
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09:13:29 Zash Meh.
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09:40:05 Zash Pointless limits, let's remove them. Mandating that at least one format be widely supported is good, but today jpeg and gif should be fine along with png.
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10:35:32 flow serious question: why would you want to have your avatar in multiple formats? shouldn't png just always be fine?
10:36:35 Zash Jpeg deals better with photos
10:37:01 edhelas webp
10:37:14 Zash But you could also have a higher resolution available as alternative version
10:37:25 Zash webp doesn't work everywhere
10:38:04 Zash You could have it as alternative format if you wanted
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10:41:37 Zash Or you could have png+svg.
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10:43:45 Daniel heif
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10:56:15 larma make svg required and then don't base64 encode the svg, but just embed it. If you still wanted to use other image formats, you can embed them in svg
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11:23:03 lovetox larma, why though seems complicated
11:23:53 lovetox i read a file from my harddisk in bytes, pass it to the b64encode and im finished, i dont have to care if that svg is valid xml at all
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11:28:06 lovetox i dont want to care if something is a svg, then i have to read, decode it, add the xml to as child etc, and if its another format i have to base64 encode it .. make everything just more complex
11:28:33 lovetox for a bit less size on a payload which is rarley requested at all
11:29:15 lovetox also png is fine as almost all supports it
11:29:34 lovetox its the other way around, publish png, and if you want something more add other formats
11:29:55 lovetox flow, on desktop we often deal with hidpi displays
11:30:19 lovetox we need to scale the avatar x2 or even x3
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11:30:52 lovetox svg solves that nicely
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11:31:28 Zash So why not have the ability tp publish a higher resolution along with the mandated 96x96 png or whatever
11:32:02 lovetox you have this ability already Zash
11:32:20 lovetox its just that other formats are not allowed than png
11:32:51 lovetox for me the optimal case is
11:33:12 Zash Wasn't it just argued that you could only have one item?
11:33:34 lovetox user selects a svg, i publish a png in 100x100 or something, and add the svg in a second avatar info, so clients that support svg can use that
11:33:52 lovetox where Zash?
11:34:08 lovetox The XEP says the <data> node is only for PNG
11:34:30 Zash That. That's silly.
11:34:34 lovetox i know
11:34:48 lovetox and mostly ignored anyway
11:34:57 Zash The part MattJ quoted
11:35:09 Zash So let's update it to be sane?
11:35:12 lovetox i remeber a time when C only published in webp
11:35:40 lovetox yes the part that MattJ quoted, says other "content-types"
11:35:48 MattJ The way we usually handle this is "You must publish X, you may optionally publish other things"
11:35:51 lovetox you can post image/png in 100 resolutions if you want to pep
11:35:56 lovetox but not another content type
11:36:18 Zash What's the point of a info/@type attribute if the only option is png?
11:36:29 MattJ I'd be happy with even a SHOULD support PNG, it's tricky hard-coding something here that may evolve over time (when the rest of the documented protocol would hold up fine)
11:36:46 Zash MattJ, yes, that
11:37:00 Zash Like with hash algos
11:38:05 lovetox but it already has a MUST
11:38:08 lovetox > and one of the formats MUST be "image/png" to ensure interoperability
11:38:25 lovetox can we not just remove the word "only"
11:38:31 lovetox its not normativ language
11:38:46 lovetox so i guess the creator didnt think this is important anyway
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11:40:08 lovetox we just remove that part "and only for the "image/png" content-type"
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11:40:30 lovetox from 4.1
11:40:36 MattJ Sounds good to me
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14:20:31 Link Mauve “12:35:32 flow> serious question: why would you want to have your avatar in multiple formats? shouldn't png just always be fine?”, SVG is much smaller for vector data, and can work at arbitrarily high resolutions.
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14:22:56 Link Mauve “12:43:45 Daniel> heif”, all desktop clients will soon support it with AV1 inside (AVIF), when the user has libavif installed. :)
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19:44:22 Holger Alex, I did it, >24h before the period ended!!
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19:44:28 Holger Alex, many thanks for the reminder 🙂
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19:45:23 Alex ,👍👍
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20:23:46 Holger !XSF_Martin, oh we're applying together. So you gotta change your nick once your application is accepted.
20:25:45 Holger !!XSF_Martin.
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20:50:39 jonas’ Link Mauve, don’t forget your application :)
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21:46:55 citizenzibb Have any xmpp based tech companies ever donated back to xmpp?
21:47:12 citizenzibb I.e. WhatsApp kik etc.
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