XSF Discussion - 2020-09-04


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  255. Ge0rG

    flow: I'm pretty sure we had a discussion about making Compliance Suite a fixed document instead of a XEP, either one or two years ago, and then decided that we don't have the process for Council to make such a document outside of the XEP process

  256. flow

    Ge0rG, I know

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  258. Ge0rG

    flow: I don't see how the situation might have changed since then

  259. flow

    I'd believe that it should be trivial to say that council has control over whatever appears behind xmpp.org/compliance, or otherwise we are doing something wrong

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  261. flow

    it would feel like we are trapped in our self-imposed bureaucracy

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  263. Ge0rG

    what's wrong with having a redirect from /compliance/ to the current compliance suite xep?

  264. flow

    Ge0rG, some of the (valid, imho) points andrew mentions would still apply, no?

  265. flow

    that said, a redirect would probably be an inprovement

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  267. Zash

    Does it really matter if it's a XEP or a web page or a redirect?

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  269. Ge0rG

    flow: some of the points are valid, yes, but XEP numbers are rather cheap, and we would end up re-inventing XEP Process just for this page.

  270. flow

    Zash, I think it does

  271. Ge0rG

    and after all it's easy to suggest changes if the burden of implementing them properly is with somebody else.

  272. flow

    even if it is just because someone forgets to update to redirect, but I think there is more to that

  273. Ge0rG

    I'm pretty sure that the redirect was also suggested last year.

  274. Ge0rG

    or two years ago.

  275. Ge0rG

    maybe somebodyâ„¢ should figure out how to make one in Pelican and open a PR?

  276. flow

    it sure was, but I really think it should be a compliance.md that council edits

  277. Ge0rG

    flow: see above.

  278. flow

    Ge0rG, which above are you referring to?

  279. Ge0rG

    flow: > we would end up re-inventing XEP Process just for this page. > it's easy to suggest changes if the burden of implementing them properly is with somebody else.

  280. flow

    Ge0rG, I am not sure what you want me to tell. But I would implement a compliance.md if you ask me to

  281. Ge0rG

    as it stands now, publishing the Compliance Suite is a job that has burned through multiple authors over the years, and as its current author I can say that it's Good Enoughâ„¢

  282. flow

    assuming that it is used later on (of course)

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  284. Ge0rG

    flow: making it a dedicated page on the website means that additional process needs to be created for the commteam/web team (check whether a PR touches the magic compliance URL), for the Council (is that web page similar to an Informational XEP?). This needs to be written down and approved by Board.

  285. Ge0rG

    flow: that's pretty much work compared to "just keep doing it as is now and create a redirect"

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  287. flow

    I'd simply write "The XSF Council maintains the pages of the XMPP compliance suite under the xmpp.org domain" into the right document

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  289. Ge0rG

    flow: PR welcome

  290. Ge0rG

    CS2021 doesn't have a XEP number yet. It's not too late.

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  292. Ge0rG

    but given that you need a "current" compliance suite, an archive of previous compliance suites and some sort of versioning for them, XEPs don't look so bad as a vehicle after all

  293. Zash

    So that'd be XEP-0001, which makes it a Board matter. Have fun with the process! :)

  294. flow

    I fear that someone will tell me that it belongs into the bylaws and then we need some sort of membership vote and we end up in some sort of bureaucracy hell

  295. Ge0rG

    Zash: Board would delegate to Council for pre-approval

  296. Ge0rG

    flow: so just submit a PR for the redirect then ;)

  297. flow

    xmpp.org/compliance/2019 xmpp.org/compliance/2018 etc

  298. flow

    bbl

  299. Ge0rG

    or maybe create a small page that describes what the CS is about and links to all the versions?

  300. Ge0rG

    that would be an improvement that can be implemented immediately!

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  310. Guus

    Maybe not overcomplete things guys.

  311. Guus

    Having a recognizable URL on our website that points to the most up-to-date spec isn't a board matter.

  312. Guus

    having it updated, either manually or automatically, isn't either.

  313. Guus

    there's a lot that can be done with manual requests each year. If that starts to hurt, effort-wise, improvements will appear as by magic.

  314. Ge0rG

    Guus: you are right, provided that "the most up-to-date spec" is a XEP

  315. Ge0rG

    if "the most up-to-date spec" becomes a webpage, then process issues will arise.

  316. Ge0rG

    also it looks like nobody PRed that redirect yet.

  317. Guus

    then make it be a pointer to the most-up-to-date XEP and be done with it.

  318. Guus

    heck, just copy the content in a new page for all I care.

  319. Zash

    Why isn't there a link to specs more prominently on the front page?

  320. Guus

    "the XSF periodically publishes a compliancy suite that blablabh. Here's the most up-to-date version!"

  321. Ge0rG

    Guus: that's exactly what I suggested above ;)

  322. Guus

    @zash I agree that there's room for improvement there.

  323. Guus

    Ge0rG to quite a sneaker brand: just do it?

  324. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/ does mention the CSes at least

  325. Guus

    Ge0rG to quote a sneaker brand: just do it?

  326. Ge0rG

    Guus: because editing the web page is a bottomless pit

  327. Ge0rG

    that page needs to be linked from somewhere.

  328. Ge0rG

    and somewhere is probably XMPP/Overview, which is https://xmpp.org/about/technology-overview.html and where I don't even know where to start

  329. Zash

    and maybe https://xmpp.org/about/standards-process.html

  330. Guus

    None of this is a matter of procedure or bureaucracy.

  331. Ge0rG

    but people want to make it a matter of procedure or bureaucracy because they don't understand our procedure and bureaucracy.

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  333. Ge0rG

    hm. the links in the "about xmpp" dropdown don't work for me any more.

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  341. Ge0rG

    anyway, I have no idea where to link that hypothetical new page from, so I give up.

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  348. wurstsalat

    I would do more of this page maintenance work if I could build the page locally without all that containerization. I did a PR to fix the 'menu missing' issue for current Pelican versions (which is the only blocking issue which keeps us from using an up-to-date Pelican version, I think).

  349. Zash

    wurstsalat: Are you saying that the `make` commands don't work?

  350. wurstsalat

    If you don't pin to pelican 3.x (I don't remember) you end up with a missing main menu

  351. wurstsalat

    (Which said PR fixes, but that won't run on old Pelican versions)

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  465. mdosch

    > or maybe create a small page that describes what the CS is about and links to all the versions? > that would be an improvement that can be implemented immediately! And you could look up older versions instead of the only being forwarded to the latest. If someone goes to that page to look up the version from two years ago because he wants to know what a specific clients support being forwarded to the current one would be annoying.

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