XSF Discussion - 2020-09-04

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  255. Ge0rG flow: I'm pretty sure we had a discussion about making Compliance Suite a fixed document instead of a XEP, either one or two years ago, and then decided that we don't have the process for Council to make such a document outside of the XEP process
  256. flow Ge0rG, I know
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  258. Ge0rG flow: I don't see how the situation might have changed since then
  259. flow I'd believe that it should be trivial to say that council has control over whatever appears behind xmpp.org/compliance, or otherwise we are doing something wrong
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  261. flow it would feel like we are trapped in our self-imposed bureaucracy
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  263. Ge0rG what's wrong with having a redirect from /compliance/ to the current compliance suite xep?
  264. flow Ge0rG, some of the (valid, imho) points andrew mentions would still apply, no?
  265. flow that said, a redirect would probably be an inprovement
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  267. Zash Does it really matter if it's a XEP or a web page or a redirect?
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  269. Ge0rG flow: some of the points are valid, yes, but XEP numbers are rather cheap, and we would end up re-inventing XEP Process just for this page.
  270. flow Zash, I think it does
  271. Ge0rG and after all it's easy to suggest changes if the burden of implementing them properly is with somebody else.
  272. flow even if it is just because someone forgets to update to redirect, but I think there is more to that
  273. Ge0rG I'm pretty sure that the redirect was also suggested last year.
  274. Ge0rG or two years ago.
  275. Ge0rG maybe somebody™ should figure out how to make one in Pelican and open a PR?
  276. flow it sure was, but I really think it should be a compliance.md that council edits
  277. Ge0rG flow: see above.
  278. flow Ge0rG, which above are you referring to?
  279. Ge0rG flow: > we would end up re-inventing XEP Process just for this page. > it's easy to suggest changes if the burden of implementing them properly is with somebody else.
  280. flow Ge0rG, I am not sure what you want me to tell. But I would implement a compliance.md if you ask me to
  281. Ge0rG as it stands now, publishing the Compliance Suite is a job that has burned through multiple authors over the years, and as its current author I can say that it's Good Enough™
  282. flow assuming that it is used later on (of course)
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  284. Ge0rG flow: making it a dedicated page on the website means that additional process needs to be created for the commteam/web team (check whether a PR touches the magic compliance URL), for the Council (is that web page similar to an Informational XEP?). This needs to be written down and approved by Board.
  285. Ge0rG flow: that's pretty much work compared to "just keep doing it as is now and create a redirect"
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  287. flow I'd simply write "The XSF Council maintains the pages of the XMPP compliance suite under the xmpp.org domain" into the right document
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  289. Ge0rG flow: PR welcome
  290. Ge0rG CS2021 doesn't have a XEP number yet. It's not too late.
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  292. Ge0rG but given that you need a "current" compliance suite, an archive of previous compliance suites and some sort of versioning for them, XEPs don't look so bad as a vehicle after all
  293. Zash So that'd be XEP-0001, which makes it a Board matter. Have fun with the process! :)
  294. flow I fear that someone will tell me that it belongs into the bylaws and then we need some sort of membership vote and we end up in some sort of bureaucracy hell
  295. Ge0rG Zash: Board would delegate to Council for pre-approval
  296. Ge0rG flow: so just submit a PR for the redirect then ;)
  297. flow xmpp.org/compliance/2019 xmpp.org/compliance/2018 etc
  298. flow bbl
  299. Ge0rG or maybe create a small page that describes what the CS is about and links to all the versions?
  300. Ge0rG that would be an improvement that can be implemented immediately!
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  310. Guus Maybe not overcomplete things guys.
  311. Guus Having a recognizable URL on our website that points to the most up-to-date spec isn't a board matter.
  312. Guus having it updated, either manually or automatically, isn't either.
  313. Guus there's a lot that can be done with manual requests each year. If that starts to hurt, effort-wise, improvements will appear as by magic.
  314. Ge0rG Guus: you are right, provided that "the most up-to-date spec" is a XEP
  315. Ge0rG if "the most up-to-date spec" becomes a webpage, then process issues will arise.
  316. Ge0rG also it looks like nobody PRed that redirect yet.
  317. Guus then make it be a pointer to the most-up-to-date XEP and be done with it.
  318. Guus heck, just copy the content in a new page for all I care.
  319. Zash Why isn't there a link to specs more prominently on the front page?
  320. Guus "the XSF periodically publishes a compliancy suite that blablabh. Here's the most up-to-date version!"
  321. Ge0rG Guus: that's exactly what I suggested above ;)
  322. Guus @zash I agree that there's room for improvement there.
  323. Guus Ge0rG to quite a sneaker brand: just do it?
  324. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/ does mention the CSes at least
  325. Guus Ge0rG to quote a sneaker brand: just do it?
  326. Ge0rG Guus: because editing the web page is a bottomless pit
  327. Ge0rG that page needs to be linked from somewhere.
  328. Ge0rG and somewhere is probably XMPP/Overview, which is https://xmpp.org/about/technology-overview.html and where I don't even know where to start
  329. Zash and maybe https://xmpp.org/about/standards-process.html
  330. Guus None of this is a matter of procedure or bureaucracy.
  331. Ge0rG but people want to make it a matter of procedure or bureaucracy because they don't understand our procedure and bureaucracy.
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  333. Ge0rG hm. the links in the "about xmpp" dropdown don't work for me any more.
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  341. Ge0rG anyway, I have no idea where to link that hypothetical new page from, so I give up.
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  348. wurstsalat I would do more of this page maintenance work if I could build the page locally without all that containerization. I did a PR to fix the 'menu missing' issue for current Pelican versions (which is the only blocking issue which keeps us from using an up-to-date Pelican version, I think).
  349. Zash wurstsalat: Are you saying that the `make` commands don't work?
  350. wurstsalat If you don't pin to pelican 3.x (I don't remember) you end up with a missing main menu
  351. wurstsalat (Which said PR fixes, but that won't run on old Pelican versions)
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  465. mdosch > or maybe create a small page that describes what the CS is about and links to all the versions? > that would be an improvement that can be implemented immediately! And you could look up older versions instead of the only being forwarded to the latest. If someone goes to that page to look up the version from two years ago because he wants to know what a specific clients support being forwarded to the current one would be annoying.
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