XSF Discussion - 2020-09-04

  1. mukt2 has joined

  2. arc has left

  3. arc has joined

  4. intosi has left

  5. mukt2 has left

  6. krauq has left

  7. krauq has joined

  8. alameyo has left

  9. thorsten has left

  10. mukt2 has joined

  11. xsf has left

  12. arc has left

  13. arc has joined

  14. arc has left

  15. arc has joined

  16. mukt2 has left

  17. arc has left

  18. dwd has left

  19. xsf has joined

  20. alameyo has joined

  21. neshtaxmpp has joined

  22. neshtaxmpp has left

  23. neshtaxmpp has joined

  24. mukt2 has joined

  25. xsf has left

  26. intosi has joined

  27. thorsten has joined

  28. mukt2 has left

  29. krauq has left

  30. krauq has joined

  31. xsf has joined

  32. xsf has left

  33. xsf has joined

  34. karoshi has left

  35. karoshi has joined

  36. adiaholic has joined

  37. adiaholic has left

  38. adiaholic has joined

  39. waqas has joined

  40. adiaholic has left

  41. krauq has left

  42. krauq has joined

  43. adiaholic has joined

  44. adiaholic has left

  45. adiaholic has joined

  46. Seve has joined

  47. krauq has left

  48. krauq has joined

  49. Yagiza has joined

  50. intosi has left

  51. Wojtek has left

  52. jcbrand has joined

  53. adiaholic has left

  54. intosi has joined

  55. waqas has left

  56. adiaholic has joined

  57. karoshi has left

  58. dwd has joined

  59. papatutuwawa has joined

  60. papatutuwawa has left

  61. papatutuwawa has joined

  62. adiaholic has left

  63. adiaholic has joined

  64. wurstsalat has left

  65. wurstsalat has joined

  66. intosi has left

  67. adiaholic has left

  68. adiaholic has joined

  69. lorddavidiii has joined

  70. Tobias has joined

  71. lovetox has joined

  72. intosi has joined

  73. krauq has left

  74. krauq has joined

  75. krauq has left

  76. krauq has joined

  77. krauq has left

  78. krauq has joined

  79. krauq has left

  80. krauq has joined

  81. intosi has left

  82. krauq has left

  83. krauq has joined

  84. lovetox has left

  85. DebXWoody has joined

  86. mimi89999 has left

  87. mimi89999 has joined

  88. alameyo has left

  89. adiaholic has left

  90. Mikaela has joined

  91. adiaholic has joined

  92. rion has joined

  93. intosi has joined

  94. adiaholic has left

  95. adiaholic has joined

  96. lovetox has joined

  97. Seve has left

  98. sonny has joined

  99. Ge0rG has left

  100. lovetox has left

  101. Ge0rG has joined

  102. sonny has left

  103. adiaholic has left

  104. adiaholic has joined

  105. sonny has joined

  106. Seve has joined

  107. lorddavidiii has left

  108. goffi has joined

  109. sonny has left

  110. alameyo has joined

  111. adiaholic has left

  112. adiaholic has joined

  113. Mikaela has left

  114. sonny has joined

  115. lorddavidiii has joined

  116. sonny has left

  117. sonny has joined

  118. Mikaela has joined

  119. sonny has left

  120. sonny has joined

  121. vanitasvitae has left

  122. vanitasvitae has joined

  123. adiaholic has left

  124. adiaholic has joined

  125. papatutuwawa has left

  126. thorsten has left

  127. sonny has left

  128. sonny has joined

  129. sonny has left

  130. adiaholic has left

  131. adiaholic has joined

  132. sonny has joined

  133. sonny has left

  134. adiaholic has left

  135. sonny has joined

  136. adiaholic has joined

  137. sonny has left

  138. adiaholic has left

  139. adiaholic has joined

  140. adiaholic has left

  141. adiaholic has joined

  142. adiaholic has left

  143. adiaholic has joined

  144. sonny has joined

  145. emus has joined

  146. sonny has left

  147. sonny has joined

  148. lskdjf has joined

  149. emus has left

  150. emus has joined

  151. eevvoor has joined

  152. jcbrand has left

  153. eevvoor has left

  154. eevvoor has joined

  155. emus has left

  156. emus has joined

  157. adiaholic has left

  158. adiaholic has joined

  159. sonny has left

  160. sonny has joined

  161. karoshi has joined

  162. adiaholic has left

  163. adiaholic has joined

  164. alameyo has left

  165. adiaholic has left

  166. adiaholic has joined

  167. adiaholic has left

  168. adiaholic has joined

  169. papatutuwawa has joined

  170. adiaholic has left

  171. adiaholic has joined

  172. Dele Olajide has joined

  173. adiaholic has left

  174. adiaholic has joined

  175. Dele Olajide has left

  176. Dele Olajide has joined

  177. Daniel has left

  178. Daniel has joined

  179. Dele Olajide has left

  180. Dele Olajide has joined

  181. Dele Olajide has left

  182. Dele Olajide has joined

  183. Dele Olajide has left

  184. Andrzej has left

  185. jcbrand has joined

  186. rion has left

  187. rion has joined

  188. Andrzej has joined

  189. adiaholic has left

  190. adiaholic has joined

  191. eevvoor has left

  192. thorsten has joined

  193. pasdesushi has joined

  194. pasdesushi has left

  195. pasdesushi has joined

  196. pasdesushi has left

  197. krauq has left

  198. adiaholic has left

  199. krauq has joined

  200. adiaholic has joined

  201. eevvoor has joined

  202. alameyo has joined

  203. adiaholic has left

  204. adiaholic has joined

  205. sonny has left

  206. sonny has joined

  207. sonny has left

  208. adiaholic has left

  209. adiaholic has joined

  210. j.r has left

  211. j.r has joined

  212. sonny has joined

  213. sonny has left

  214. sonny has joined

  215. alameyo has left

  216. Daniel has left

  217. Daniel has joined

  218. sonny has left

  219. sonny has joined

  220. sonny has left

  221. APach has left

  222. APach has joined

  223. adiaholic has left

  224. adiaholic has joined

  225. xecks has left

  226. Syndace has left

  227. xecks has joined

  228. Syndace has joined

  229. debacle has joined

  230. lovetox has joined

  231. sonny has joined

  232. Mikaela has left

  233. DebXWoody has left

  234. sonny has left

  235. adiaholic has left

  236. adiaholic has joined

  237. krauq has left

  238. krauq has joined

  239. Daniel has left

  240. Daniel has joined

  241. Daniel has left

  242. Daniel has joined

  243. sonny has joined

  244. Mikaela has joined

  245. intosi has left

  246. adiaholic has left

  247. adiaholic has joined

  248. mukt2 has joined

  249. sonny has left

  250. sonny has joined

  251. sonny has left

  252. DebXWoody has joined

  253. sonny has joined

  254. sonny has left

  255. Ge0rG

    flow: I'm pretty sure we had a discussion about making Compliance Suite a fixed document instead of a XEP, either one or two years ago, and then decided that we don't have the process for Council to make such a document outside of the XEP process

  256. flow

    Ge0rG, I know

  257. mukt2 has left

  258. Ge0rG

    flow: I don't see how the situation might have changed since then

  259. flow

    I'd believe that it should be trivial to say that council has control over whatever appears behind xmpp.org/compliance, or otherwise we are doing something wrong

  260. intosi has joined

  261. flow

    it would feel like we are trapped in our self-imposed bureaucracy

  262. adiaholic has left

  263. Ge0rG

    what's wrong with having a redirect from /compliance/ to the current compliance suite xep?

  264. flow

    Ge0rG, some of the (valid, imho) points andrew mentions would still apply, no?

  265. flow

    that said, a redirect would probably be an inprovement

  266. APach has left

  267. Zash

    Does it really matter if it's a XEP or a web page or a redirect?

  268. APach has joined

  269. Ge0rG

    flow: some of the points are valid, yes, but XEP numbers are rather cheap, and we would end up re-inventing XEP Process just for this page.

  270. flow

    Zash, I think it does

  271. Ge0rG

    and after all it's easy to suggest changes if the burden of implementing them properly is with somebody else.

  272. flow

    even if it is just because someone forgets to update to redirect, but I think there is more to that

  273. Ge0rG

    I'm pretty sure that the redirect was also suggested last year.

  274. Ge0rG

    or two years ago.

  275. Ge0rG

    maybe somebodyâ„¢ should figure out how to make one in Pelican and open a PR?

  276. flow

    it sure was, but I really think it should be a compliance.md that council edits

  277. Ge0rG

    flow: see above.

  278. flow

    Ge0rG, which above are you referring to?

  279. Ge0rG

    flow: > we would end up re-inventing XEP Process just for this page. > it's easy to suggest changes if the burden of implementing them properly is with somebody else.

  280. flow

    Ge0rG, I am not sure what you want me to tell. But I would implement a compliance.md if you ask me to

  281. Ge0rG

    as it stands now, publishing the Compliance Suite is a job that has burned through multiple authors over the years, and as its current author I can say that it's Good Enoughâ„¢

  282. flow

    assuming that it is used later on (of course)

  283. rion has left

  284. Ge0rG

    flow: making it a dedicated page on the website means that additional process needs to be created for the commteam/web team (check whether a PR touches the magic compliance URL), for the Council (is that web page similar to an Informational XEP?). This needs to be written down and approved by Board.

  285. Ge0rG

    flow: that's pretty much work compared to "just keep doing it as is now and create a redirect"

  286. sonny has joined

  287. flow

    I'd simply write "The XSF Council maintains the pages of the XMPP compliance suite under the xmpp.org domain" into the right document

  288. sonny has left

  289. Ge0rG

    flow: PR welcome

  290. Ge0rG

    CS2021 doesn't have a XEP number yet. It's not too late.

  291. mukt2 has joined

  292. Ge0rG

    but given that you need a "current" compliance suite, an archive of previous compliance suites and some sort of versioning for them, XEPs don't look so bad as a vehicle after all

  293. Zash

    So that'd be XEP-0001, which makes it a Board matter. Have fun with the process! :)

  294. flow

    I fear that someone will tell me that it belongs into the bylaws and then we need some sort of membership vote and we end up in some sort of bureaucracy hell

  295. Ge0rG

    Zash: Board would delegate to Council for pre-approval

  296. Ge0rG

    flow: so just submit a PR for the redirect then ;)

  297. flow

    xmpp.org/compliance/2019 xmpp.org/compliance/2018 etc

  298. flow


  299. Ge0rG

    or maybe create a small page that describes what the CS is about and links to all the versions?

  300. Ge0rG

    that would be an improvement that can be implemented immediately!

  301. intosi has left

  302. sonny has joined

  303. sonny has left

  304. sonny has joined

  305. intosi has joined

  306. krauq has left

  307. krauq has joined

  308. mukt2 has left

  309. lorddavidiii has left

  310. Guus

    Maybe not overcomplete things guys.

  311. Guus

    Having a recognizable URL on our website that points to the most up-to-date spec isn't a board matter.

  312. Guus

    having it updated, either manually or automatically, isn't either.

  313. Guus

    there's a lot that can be done with manual requests each year. If that starts to hurt, effort-wise, improvements will appear as by magic.

  314. Ge0rG

    Guus: you are right, provided that "the most up-to-date spec" is a XEP

  315. Ge0rG

    if "the most up-to-date spec" becomes a webpage, then process issues will arise.

  316. Ge0rG

    also it looks like nobody PRed that redirect yet.

  317. Guus

    then make it be a pointer to the most-up-to-date XEP and be done with it.

  318. Guus

    heck, just copy the content in a new page for all I care.

  319. Zash

    Why isn't there a link to specs more prominently on the front page?

  320. Guus

    "the XSF periodically publishes a compliancy suite that blablabh. Here's the most up-to-date version!"

  321. Ge0rG

    Guus: that's exactly what I suggested above ;)

  322. Guus

    @zash I agree that there's room for improvement there.

  323. Guus

    Ge0rG to quite a sneaker brand: just do it?

  324. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/ does mention the CSes at least

  325. Guus

    Ge0rG to quote a sneaker brand: just do it?

  326. Ge0rG

    Guus: because editing the web page is a bottomless pit

  327. Ge0rG

    that page needs to be linked from somewhere.

  328. Ge0rG

    and somewhere is probably XMPP/Overview, which is https://xmpp.org/about/technology-overview.html and where I don't even know where to start

  329. Zash

    and maybe https://xmpp.org/about/standards-process.html

  330. Guus

    None of this is a matter of procedure or bureaucracy.

  331. Ge0rG

    but people want to make it a matter of procedure or bureaucracy because they don't understand our procedure and bureaucracy.

  332. Shell has joined

  333. Ge0rG

    hm. the links in the "about xmpp" dropdown don't work for me any more.

  334. emus has left

  335. emus has joined

  336. krauq has left

  337. krauq has joined

  338. esil has left

  339. adiaholic has joined

  340. goffi has left

  341. Ge0rG

    anyway, I have no idea where to link that hypothetical new page from, so I give up.

  342. Mikaela has left

  343. adiaholic has left

  344. adiaholic has joined

  345. lorddavidiii has joined

  346. adiaholic has left

  347. adiaholic has joined

  348. wurstsalat

    I would do more of this page maintenance work if I could build the page locally without all that containerization. I did a PR to fix the 'menu missing' issue for current Pelican versions (which is the only blocking issue which keeps us from using an up-to-date Pelican version, I think).

  349. Zash

    wurstsalat: Are you saying that the `make` commands don't work?

  350. wurstsalat

    If you don't pin to pelican 3.x (I don't remember) you end up with a missing main menu

  351. wurstsalat

    (Which said PR fixes, but that won't run on old Pelican versions)

  352. adiaholic has left

  353. adiaholic has joined

  354. karoshi has left

  355. karoshi has joined

  356. adiaholic has left

  357. adiaholic has joined

  358. eevvoor has left

  359. eevvoor has joined

  360. adiaholic has left

  361. adiaholic has joined

  362. goffi has joined

  363. Mikaela has joined

  364. sonny has left

  365. sonny has joined

  366. adiaholic has left

  367. sonny has left

  368. sonny has joined

  369. adiaholic has joined

  370. adiaholic has left

  371. adiaholic has joined

  372. adiaholic has left

  373. adiaholic has joined

  374. adiaholic has left

  375. adiaholic has joined

  376. sonny has left

  377. sonny has joined

  378. alameyo has joined

  379. adiaholic has left

  380. waqas has joined

  381. debacle has left

  382. calvin has joined

  383. eta has left

  384. eta has joined

  385. Wojtek has joined

  386. krauq has left

  387. krauq has joined

  388. calvin has left

  389. adiaholic has joined

  390. adiaholic has left

  391. adiaholic has joined

  392. DebXWoody has left

  393. krauq has left

  394. krauq has joined

  395. alameyo has left

  396. alameyo has joined

  397. lorddavidiii has left

  398. APach has left

  399. alameyo has left

  400. alameyo has joined

  401. adiaholic has left

  402. adiaholic has joined

  403. adiaholic has left

  404. adiaholic has joined

  405. krauq has left

  406. krauq has joined

  407. lovetox has left

  408. adiaholic has left

  409. adiaholic has joined

  410. debacle has joined

  411. lorddavidiii has joined

  412. neshtaxmpp has left

  413. emus has left

  414. alameyo has left

  415. alameyo has joined

  416. adiaholic has left

  417. adiaholic has joined

  418. sonny has left

  419. sonny has joined

  420. thorsten has left

  421. adiaholic has left

  422. adiaholic has joined

  423. sonny has left

  424. marc0s has left

  425. marc0s has joined

  426. sonny has joined

  427. emus has joined

  428. lovetox has joined

  429. adiaholic has left

  430. adiaholic has joined

  431. Nekit has left

  432. Nekit has joined

  433. adiaholic has left

  434. lovetox has left

  435. adiaholic has joined

  436. eevvoor has left

  437. eevvoor has joined

  438. adiaholic has left

  439. adiaholic has joined

  440. sonny has left

  441. lovetox has joined

  442. adiaholic has left

  443. adiaholic has joined

  444. adiaholic has left

  445. adiaholic has joined

  446. Andrzej has left

  447. APach has joined

  448. Wojtek has left

  449. thorsten has joined

  450. sonny has joined

  451. lovetox has left

  452. Wojtek has joined

  453. sonny has left

  454. adiaholic has left

  455. sonny has joined

  456. adiaholic has joined

  457. adiaholic has left

  458. adiaholic has joined

  459. lorddavidiii has left

  460. sonny has left

  461. sonny has joined

  462. Andrzej has joined

  463. lovetox has joined

  464. Wojtek has left

  465. mdosch

    > or maybe create a small page that describes what the CS is about and links to all the versions? > that would be an improvement that can be implemented immediately! And you could look up older versions instead of the only being forwarded to the latest. If someone goes to that page to look up the version from two years ago because he wants to know what a specific clients support being forwarded to the current one would be annoying.

  466. Wojtek has joined

  467. Andrzej has left

  468. adiaholic has left

  469. adiaholic has joined

  470. Andrzej has joined

  471. APach has left

  472. sonny has left

  473. Wojtek has left

  474. deuill has left

  475. lorddavidiii has joined

  476. thorsten has left

  477. thorsten has joined

  478. APach has joined

  479. sonny has joined

  480. Yagiza has left

  481. sonny has left

  482. sonny has joined

  483. alameyo has left

  484. alameyo has joined

  485. sonny has left

  486. Wojtek has joined

  487. lovetox has left

  488. adiaholic has left

  489. adiaholic has joined

  490. eevvoor has left

  491. eevvoor has joined

  492. Wojtek has left

  493. lovetox has joined

  494. sonny has joined

  495. sonny has left

  496. Andrzej has left

  497. Andrzej has joined

  498. sonny has joined

  499. sonny has left

  500. Wojtek has joined

  501. Mikaela has left

  502. sonny has joined

  503. DebXWoody has joined

  504. sonny has left

  505. sonny has joined

  506. sonny has left

  507. eta has left

  508. eta has joined

  509. krauq has left

  510. krauq has joined

  511. krauq has left

  512. eevvoor has left

  513. krauq has joined

  514. adiaholic has left

  515. intosi has left

  516. adiaholic has joined

  517. eevvoor has joined

  518. sonny has joined

  519. Mikaela has joined

  520. intosi has joined

  521. andrey.g has joined

  522. mukt2 has joined

  523. sonny has left

  524. intosi has left

  525. sonny has joined

  526. DebXWoody has left

  527. mukt2 has left

  528. eevvoor has left

  529. lorddavidiii has left

  530. Wojtek has left

  531. adiaholic has left

  532. waqas has left

  533. sonny has left

  534. sonny has joined

  535. Wojtek has joined

  536. intosi has joined

  537. lorddavidiii has joined

  538. sonny has left

  539. intosi has left

  540. sonny has joined

  541. pasdesushi has joined

  542. pasdesushi has left

  543. pasdesushi has joined

  544. intosi has joined

  545. pasdesushi has left

  546. pasdesushi has joined

  547. pasdesushi has left

  548. pasdesushi has joined

  549. Mikaela has left

  550. pasdesushi has left

  551. pasdesushi has joined

  552. pasdesushi has left

  553. pasdesushi has joined

  554. intosi has left

  555. pasdesushi has left

  556. pasdesushi has joined

  557. pasdesushi has left

  558. sonny has left

  559. sonny has joined

  560. krauq has left

  561. krauq has joined

  562. intosi has joined

  563. sonny has left

  564. sonny has joined

  565. Tobias has left

  566. sonny has left

  567. sonny has joined

  568. sonny has left

  569. goffi has left

  570. lorddavidiii has left

  571. Nekit has left

  572. Maranda has left

  573. pasdesushi has joined

  574. pasdesushi has left

  575. alameyo has left

  576. alameyo has joined

  577. pasdesushi has joined

  578. neshtaxmpp has joined

  579. pasdesushi has left

  580. sonny has joined

  581. andrey.g has left

  582. sonny has left

  583. sonny has joined

  584. sonny has left

  585. krauq has left

  586. krauq has joined

  587. intosi has left

  588. amuza@riseup.net has joined

  589. intosi has joined

  590. sonny has joined

  591. Maranda has joined

  592. mukt2 has joined

  593. Shell has left

  594. lovetox has left

  595. intosi has left

  596. intosi has joined

  597. mukt2 has left

  598. debacle has left

  599. Vaulor has left

  600. alameyo has left

  601. intosi has left

  602. intosi has joined

  603. adiaholic has joined

  604. marc0s has left

  605. amuza@riseup.net has left

  606. mukt2 has joined

  607. waqas has joined

  608. jcbrand has left

  609. intosi has left

  610. intosi has joined

  611. amuza@riseup.net has joined

  612. waqas has left

  613. mukt2 has left

  614. waqas has joined