XSF Discussion - 2020-09-10

  1. Guus

    I missed a board meeting, but so did everyone else?

  2. pep.

    Apparently

  3. MattJ

    Ha, yes, seems so

  4. pep.

    Any pressing matters?

  5. Guus

    no - and I'm actually quite busy with work

  6. MattJ

    None from me

  7. Guus

    I alt-tabbed through me calendar by accident 🙂

  8. MattJ

    My phone notified me 10 minutes before the meeting, but 10 minutes it just long enough for me to forget that a notification happened

  9. MattJ

    Ok, so assuming we're skipping, I have a different topic

  10. Zash

    You need Zeno's Calendar Reminder

  11. MattJ

    Does anyone with semantic leanings have a suggestion on how to say "This HTML page is a representation of $URI"?

  12. pep.

    What does that mean

  13. MattJ

    (and yes, we're talking xmpp: URIs specifically)

  14. Zash

    alternate?

  15. MattJ

    Zash, I thought so too, but it wants a type (MIME)

  16. pep.

    it?

  17. Zash

    IT

  18. MattJ

    pep., http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-alternate#With_type

  19. Zash

    I've done `<link href="xmpp:jid" rel="alternate"/>` in a bunch of places

  20. MattJ

    Otherwise, it's the closest so far

  21. MattJ

    I would too, but I don't think that's clean enough to spec (or is it?)

  22. MattJ

    I feel like it deserves an explicit type rather than just sniffing the URI

  23. MattJ

    But I may be wrong

  24. pep.

    isn't there a mime type already?

  25. pep.

    0081

  26. Zash

    Can URIs have MIME types?

  27. MattJ

    Ha what

  28. pep.

    Zash, not URIs but what URIs refer to

  29. Zash

    What

  30. MattJ

    Retracted though

  31. MattJ

    "in favor of draft-saintandre-xmpp-iri."

  32. pep.

    ah

  33. MattJ

    I sense a rabbit hole

  34. Zash

    What's the type of the thing that `mailto:user@host` refers to?

  35. Zash

    To me this question is nonsense.

  36. MattJ

    That latter draft agrees with you

  37. pep.

    Zash, well https://foo.bar can be any mime type. https: doesn't really matter

  38. MattJ

    "Because the resource identified by an XMPP IRI/URI does not make available any media type (see [MIME]) and therefore (in the terminology of [URI]) no representation exists at an XMPP resource, the semantics of the fragment identifier component in XMPP IRIs/URIs are to be "considered unknown and, effectively, unconstrained" (ibid.)."

  39. pep.

    So yeah mimetypes are for the things pointed at, not the pointers

  40. MattJ

    Right

  41. MattJ

    Which brings me back to the beginning... MIME doesn't make sense

  42. Zash

    Exactly

  43. pep.

    Ok I didn't get the question then. Missing context

  44. MattJ

    But is rel=alternate with no explanation good enough?

  45. pep.

    Doesn't it make sense still to have application/xmpp+xml btw? Just like there is application/json, to designate the serialization format

  46. pep.

    (unrelated to the issue at hand)

  47. Zash

    I don't think so

  48. pep.

    So it doesn't make sense to have application/json?

  49. Zash

    The resource in question isn't data, but a communications endpoint.

  50. pep.

    hmm

  51. Zash

    Maybe if you're referencing a specific stanza or pubsub item or something

  52. pep.

    Right ok so I guess we agree

  53. Zash

    But that kinda puts you into URL territory

  54. pep.

    I wasn't thinking about the endpoint thing

  55. pep.

    Not sure I have an answer to that though

  56. MattJ

    It might be ok to just rel="xmpp"?

  57. Zash

    Bit redundant with the scheme in the href tho?

  58. pep.

    Yeah I was gonna say redundant with the schema ✎

  59. pep.

    Yeah I was gonna say redundant with the scheme ✏

  60. pep.

    rel="chat" or similar? :/

  61. pep.

    rel="thethingyoucancommunicateto"

  62. Zash

    I still think 'alternate' is the closest currently existing thing

  63. Zash

    At least for things where that URI is equivalent to the page, such as with a web chat

  64. pep.

    So we'd have to guess from the URI if it's a communication endpoint, an identity, a document, etc. :p

  65. pep.

    (identity as used by say Mastodon with rel="me")

  66. Zash

    If you understand XMPP URIs then you'll know what to do with it based on the ?action thing

  67. MattJ

    http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-crush - suddenly rel="xmpp" doesn't seem so bad :)

  68. pep.

    :D

  69. Zash

    @rel is a space-separated list, so you can technically just shove in whatever words make sense to you

  70. pep.

    As it was specified in the question to have semantic leanings, I have to nit a bit here :P "xmpp:foo@bar?pubsub;node=meh" doesn't exactly convey an actionable meaning. I could just want to say such a node exists, I could invite you to publish there (and I'm wondering where that list of query actions is now)

  71. pep.

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0147.html there's this but it doesn't seem to include pubsub for example(?)

  72. pep.

    Surely ?subscribe or ?message are much more explicit

  73. pep.

    Maybe the issue is just pubsub

  74. pep.

    Ah it's the registry

  75. pep.

    https://xmpp.org/registrar/querytypes.html#pubsub Ah wait is it supposed to be xmpp:foo@bar?pubsub;action=subscribe;node=meh ?

  76. pep.

    TIL XFN, XHTML Friends Network.

  77. arc

    A popular explanation of codecs https://youtu.be/-dwLs9juzWw