XSF Discussion - 2020-09-10


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  245. Guus I missed a board meeting, but so did everyone else?
  246. pep. Apparently
  247. MattJ Ha, yes, seems so
  248. pep. Any pressing matters?
  249. Guus no - and I'm actually quite busy with work
  250. MattJ None from me
  251. Guus I alt-tabbed through me calendar by accident 🙂
  252. MattJ My phone notified me 10 minutes before the meeting, but 10 minutes it just long enough for me to forget that a notification happened
  253. MattJ Ok, so assuming we're skipping, I have a different topic
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  255. Zash You need Zeno's Calendar Reminder
  256. MattJ Does anyone with semantic leanings have a suggestion on how to say "This HTML page is a representation of $URI"?
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  258. pep. What does that mean
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  260. MattJ (and yes, we're talking xmpp: URIs specifically)
  261. Zash alternate?
  262. MattJ Zash, I thought so too, but it wants a type (MIME)
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  264. pep. it?
  265. Zash IT
  266. MattJ pep., http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-alternate#With_type
  267. Zash I've done `<link href="xmpp:jid" rel="alternate"/>` in a bunch of places
  268. MattJ Otherwise, it's the closest so far
  269. MattJ I would too, but I don't think that's clean enough to spec (or is it?)
  270. MattJ I feel like it deserves an explicit type rather than just sniffing the URI
  271. MattJ But I may be wrong
  272. pep. isn't there a mime type already?
  273. pep. 0081
  274. Zash Can URIs have MIME types?
  275. MattJ Ha what
  276. pep. Zash, not URIs but what URIs refer to
  277. Zash What
  278. MattJ Retracted though
  279. MattJ "in favor of draft-saintandre-xmpp-iri."
  280. pep. ah
  281. MattJ I sense a rabbit hole
  282. Zash What's the type of the thing that `mailto:user@host` refers to?
  283. Zash To me this question is nonsense.
  284. MattJ That latter draft agrees with you
  285. pep. Zash, well https://foo.bar can be any mime type. https: doesn't really matter
  286. MattJ "Because the resource identified by an XMPP IRI/URI does not make available any media type (see [MIME]) and therefore (in the terminology of [URI]) no representation exists at an XMPP resource, the semantics of the fragment identifier component in XMPP IRIs/URIs are to be "considered unknown and, effectively, unconstrained" (ibid.)."
  287. pep. So yeah mimetypes are for the things pointed at, not the pointers
  288. MattJ Right
  289. MattJ Which brings me back to the beginning... MIME doesn't make sense
  290. Zash Exactly
  291. pep. Ok I didn't get the question then. Missing context
  292. MattJ But is rel=alternate with no explanation good enough?
  293. pep. Doesn't it make sense still to have application/xmpp+xml btw? Just like there is application/json, to designate the serialization format
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  295. pep. (unrelated to the issue at hand)
  296. Zash I don't think so
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  298. pep. So it doesn't make sense to have application/json?
  299. Zash The resource in question isn't data, but a communications endpoint.
  300. pep. hmm
  301. Zash Maybe if you're referencing a specific stanza or pubsub item or something
  302. pep. Right ok so I guess we agree
  303. Zash But that kinda puts you into URL territory
  304. pep. I wasn't thinking about the endpoint thing
  305. pep. Not sure I have an answer to that though
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  307. MattJ It might be ok to just rel="xmpp"?
  308. Zash Bit redundant with the scheme in the href tho?
  309. pep. Yeah I was gonna say redundant with the schema
  310. pep. Yeah I was gonna say redundant with the scheme
  311. pep. rel="chat" or similar? :/
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  314. pep. rel="thethingyoucancommunicateto"
  315. Zash I still think 'alternate' is the closest currently existing thing
  316. Zash At least for things where that URI is equivalent to the page, such as with a web chat
  317. pep. So we'd have to guess from the URI if it's a communication endpoint, an identity, a document, etc. :p
  318. pep. (identity as used by say Mastodon with rel="me")
  319. Zash If you understand XMPP URIs then you'll know what to do with it based on the ?action thing
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  321. MattJ http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-crush - suddenly rel="xmpp" doesn't seem so bad :)
  322. pep. :D
  323. Zash @rel is a space-separated list, so you can technically just shove in whatever words make sense to you
  324. pep. As it was specified in the question to have semantic leanings, I have to nit a bit here :P "xmpp:foo@bar?pubsub;node=meh" doesn't exactly convey an actionable meaning. I could just want to say such a node exists, I could invite you to publish there (and I'm wondering where that list of query actions is now)
  325. pep. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0147.html there's this but it doesn't seem to include pubsub for example(?)
  326. pep. Surely ?subscribe or ?message are much more explicit
  327. pep. Maybe the issue is just pubsub
  328. pep. Ah it's the registry
  329. pep. https://xmpp.org/registrar/querytypes.html#pubsub Ah wait is it supposed to be xmpp:foo@bar?pubsub;action=subscribe;node=meh ?
  330. pep. TIL XFN, XHTML Friends Network.
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  478. arc A popular explanation of codecs https://youtu.be/-dwLs9juzWw
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