XSF Discussion - 2020-09-12

Pidgin does, as well as Papaya!

(I wrote the implementation of the latter.)

... what is Papaya (excuse the ignorance)?

A XUL-based client Sonny and I and a bunch of other people were working on, some decade ago.

As MUC spam is becoming more frequent, is there something like xep 0377 for MUCs?

No, we should add it

I guess it's more complicated for MUCs but yeah. 😃

I don't think it's much more complex

at least not the signaling

larma, 441/442 are now in github. I hope I didn't break all of jonas' workflow, but both repos are in sync now :x

pep., thanks!

Someone tries to advertise sth named XMPP SW at amazon: https://www.amazon.de/XMPP-Standards-Foundation-All-Inclusive-Self-Assessment/dp/B079Y7BWGH/ref=sr_1_7?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=xmpp&qid=1599907562&sr=8-7

We should report on it?

eevvoor, that sounds like it was generated using GPT-3

doesn't make much sense indeed

and it's not published as the XSF so..

Wow, big buzzword bingo

"yay XSF made it to buzzwords"? :p

"Implement evidence-based best practice strategies aligned with overall goals" - wat

Its hotword replacement

Anyone has an Amazon account reporting this? I can try after the weekend?

emus, why would we report it

Because we understand thats fake

Not because they mention "XSF" right?

Oh boy, let's spend a few hours discussing the true meaning of "fake" ! :D

emus, nobody is saying they are the XSF, they're just using the words. I don't see an issue with that

What's the purpose of it? I don't get it? Is it spam-to-buy?

Probably.

Algorithms generating all sorts of weird things and throwing it up on Amazon has been a thing for a while now as I understand.

So, why not some word-salad containing "XSF"?

Looking for news about xmpp I found paywall sites were the text is encrypted with some Cesar Chiffre I guess and that salad contained xmpp. 🙄

I like how when I search for "xep nnnn" sometimes I get Vietnamese pages in the results 😀️

Im gonna report it as it obviously is some weird stuff misguiding or generated

Thx in advance emus. I am too busy atm.

If I had an Amazon account, I would give an enthusiastic review of the book/CD now. Mainly the "Dynamically auto-prioritized projects-ready RACI Matrix" helped me to overcome all my weaknesses. Waiter, more raki Matrix, please! ✏

Use ML text salad generator to write reviews

ANFSCD: In 2003, it was considered cool to inform contacts about the music one were listening in that moment. JEP-0118: User Tune was born. Some years later, I still like to use this feature, but I feel, that the XEP needs some love.

E.g. it says: > This specification defines a payload format for communicating information about music to which a user is listening, including the title, track number, collection, performer, composer, length, and user rating. But the tags for "performer" and "composer" are not in the spec.

Personally, I'm missing "performer", "genre", and "date", but "composer" and "lyricist" were handy, too.

Also, I wonder whether "rating" is mandatory or optional in the XML schema. It should be optional.

Aren't there XML based metadata formats? Could prooooobably namespace ninja it in there if you really wanted.

Currently, the XEP is probably nice for pop music, but lacking for jazz, classical, folklore etc.

Zash, might be. I'm not aware of any XML meta format for audio tags. ✏

It seems to be the intention of this XEP to include such information and it is easier just to add a couple of elements (esp. in existing implementations) than to invent something new.

debacle, feel free to submit PRs against the XEP :)

flow, yes, this is a simple one ;-)

debacle: https://id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames

debacle, don’t do lyrics

its possible a huge amount of data to send over pep

also i would question if this really makes sense, you want to tell your contacts the music you are listen too, not send them the lyrics

also what would they do with the lyrics without the music

pep-broadcast each line of the lyrics!!!1!

I disagree, for some music it takes you hours to find the lyrics. It is just plaintext in the end. Why not mirror the id3tags, they also include a ridiculuous long lyrics field. If we just mirror anyway, lets mirror or it entirely.

Zash, I'm aware of *that* "standard". It is very funny in respect to the selection of musical genres. E.g. it differentiates between "Industrial" and "Techno-Industrial", or "Gangsta" and "Christian Rap", but puts all 1001 classical subgenres into "Classical", does not even mention "Tango" or "Swing" or "Bolero". I'm pretty sure, that the author of the standard was minor at the time of authorship and did not discuss it with scholars of music, not even their music teacher.

oh, id3tags define which genres exist?

Then ... I disagree with my opinion above.

debacle, I meant more as a reference of what types of tags to consider

Zash lovetox I will propose "composer", "date", "language", "lyricist", and "performer".

I don't think it makes sense to mirror all kind of possible tags in this context, nor lyrics. eevvoor

IMHO, those five make a lot of sense and cerainly not add much traffic.

Forgot "genre", sorry!

debacle, but check if they are available via mpris

Six!

performer and language are not yet available in MPRIS, all the others are

lovetox

whats the difference between artist and performer

lovetox Probably depends on usage, which is not 100 % standardised.

In jazz, I use artist e.g. for an orchestra and performer for the singer or solist.

Think a recording of an orchestra performing some Mozart piece

🙄 misusage of tags :D debacle

ARTIST The artist generally considered responsible for the work. In popular music this is usually the performing band or singer. For classical music it would be the composer. For an audio book it would be the author of the original text. PERFORMER The artist(s) who performed the work. In classical music this would be the conductor, orchestra, soloists. In an audio book it would be the actor who did the reading. In popular music this is typically the same as the ARTIST and is omitted.

source: https://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html

lovetox I already wrote an email to the MPRIS author/maintainer about adding performer and language to MPRIS. Let's see, what they will respond. If they responds.

https://xmpp.debian.org:5281/upload/1YShSmCpLTJ_Y632/0001-add-composer-date-genre-language-lyricist-and-perfor.patch

debacle, 👍