XSF Discussion - 2020-09-15

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08:19:57 mdosch Some iteam members present? https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/operators/ seems to be offline. At least I can't reach it.
08:21:16 mdosch Meh, once you complain out of a sudden it works again. :-/
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08:33:35 eevvoor mdosch, yeah, the presentation phenomenon ;)
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09:08:53 flow jonas’> MattJ, note that XML forbids control characters, even in escaped form Do you have a reference for me?
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09:10:10 flow I just tried to find the corresponding part via a quick look at the XML 1.0 spec, but failed. I very well believe that something like that could be in there
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10:02:17 MattJ flow, https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-references
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10:03:05 MattJ "Character references" (i.e. &#nnn; escapes) are only allowed to represent legal characters
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10:05:16 flow MattJ, "Legal characters are tab, carriage return, line feed, and the legal characters of Unicode and ISO/IEC 10646"
10:05:41 flow not sure (yet) if this definition of "legal character" includes e.g. control characters
10:05:58 MattJ "Characters referred to using character references MUST match the production for Char."
10:06:10 MattJ Char ::= #x9 | #xA | #xD | [#x20-#xD7FF] | [#xE000-#xFFFD] | [#x10000-#x10FFFF]
10:06:14 flow ahh
10:06:56 flow so I guess everyhing that does not match this production, must be escaped via JSON escaping
10:07:01 MattJ Yes
10:07:34 flow although I could image that it could be disputed if "\u0007" is valid in JSON
10:07:42 flow but that's not our discussion :)
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10:16:14 flow now i wonder if there are code points that are legal in XML 1.0 but have to be escaped using hex entity encoding
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10:18:15 Link Mauve flow, depends on the context, for instance in attributes, U+0022 and U+0027 are both legal, but one of them has to be escaped.
10:18:47 Link Mauve U+003C in most contexts too of course.
10:18:55 flow yep, i mean besides the set of general etnities (amp, lt, gt, apos, quot)
10:19:28 jonas’ flow, I don’t think so
10:19:45 Link Mauve Hmm, depending on the document encoding, characters outside of its representable set of Unicode?
10:20:05 Link Mauve For instance if your document is latin1, any character above that would have to be escaped.
10:20:09 flow encoding happens one layer below, shouldn't be relevant
10:20:11 Link Mauve Obviously irrelevant in the context of XMPP.
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10:22:05 jonas’ flow, does it?
10:22:09 jonas’ it does
10:22:11 jonas’ nevermind
10:22:46 flow the encoding, on the wire or within the file, is not relevant for the discussion how we stuff JSON in XMPP's XML
10:25:47 flow the encoding, on the wire or within the file, is not relevant for the discussion how we shove JSON in XMPP's XML
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10:28:27 Link Mauve flow, because it is set to UTF-8 in XMPP, but e.g. if you use an XML editor and save as latin1, said editor would have to replace any codepoint above U+00FF with an escaped version of it, giving the exact same result as if it had been escaped previously.
10:28:31 Link Mauve Am I wrong?
10:28:49 Link Mauve What the character data represents is irrelevant in this case.
10:28:54 flow Link Mauve: JSON -A> XMPP -B> XML -C> wire
10:29:06 flow we are only talking about A and B here
10:29:22 Link Mauve Ok.
10:29:34 flow that the resulting XML in this chain is encoded using UTF-8 is irrelevant for the discussion what and how to escape JSON in XMPP's XML
10:30:29 flow that the resulting XML in this chain is encoded using UTF-8 before being put on the wire is irrelevant for the discussion about what and how to escape JSON in XMPP's XML
10:31:07 Link Mauve Well not so much, it can be considered irrelevant only because UTF-8 allows representing all legal characters in XML 1.0, so only illegal characters (but legal in JSON) have to be taken care of.
10:31:27 Link Mauve Well not so much, it can be considered irrelevant only because UTF-8 allows representing all legal characters in XML 1.0 in unescaped form, so only illegal characters (but legal in JSON) have to be taken care of.
10:32:30 flow Link Mauve, but the set of illegal XML 1.0 characters does not depend on the encoding used to store the XML, right?
10:32:42 Link Mauve No, it doesn’t.
10:32:56 flow ahh double negation
10:33:01 flow not sure if in aggreement or not
10:33:17 flow not sure if in agreement or not
10:33:18 Link Mauve It is an agreement. ^^
10:33:31 flow phew
10:33:38 Link Mauve :)
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13:25:19 jonas’ language!
13:25:21 jonas’ (is hard)
13:25:47 Zash something something langsec
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20:43:57 emus Mid-month reminder to send your project news, aritcles and updates to the XMPP Newsletter on September! 💌️ https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/787
20:44:12 emus Mid-month reminder to send your project news, articles and updates to the XMPP Newsletter on September! 💌️ https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/787
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