XSF Discussion - 2020-10-01

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  26. moparisthebest

    https://tlswg.org/draft-ietf-tls-esni/draft-ietf-tls-esni.html neat I missed when this started encrypting the whole client hello including ALPN

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  48. Neustradamus

    Monal devs do not want to add -PLUS variants: https://github.com/anurodhp/Monal/issues/161#issuecomment-701867707

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  65. emus

    Neustradamus: I think its not about wanting but about ressources and priority currently

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  76. emus

    I also wonder what makes Monal special from other clients having this not (yet) implemented.

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  85. Holger

    Neustradamus: You think -PLUS is more important than groupchat support?

  86. mdosch

    Also my only experienced message loss was when the contact was using Monal. But I'm not sure if it is a general Monal issue or if the server was also involved.

  87. mdosch

    So there is indeed more important work to do.

  88. jonas’

    mdosch, how dare you!

  89. jonas’

    who voted you in the XSF!

  90. jonas’

    who voted you into the XSF!

  91. mdosch


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  104. Guus

    > who voted you into the XSF! You?

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  121. emus

    You cannot get nailed by hackers is there are no messages at all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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  159. Alex


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  165. edhelas

    is there some folks from Tigase here ?

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  168. MattJ

    Yes, and there is also a Tigase MUC

  169. MattJ


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  211. pep.


  212. pep.

    MattJ, Seve, Guus

  213. Guus


  214. Seve

    Hello 👋

  215. MattJ

    Oh, wow, Thursday

  216. Seve

    Ralph cannot make it to today's meeting

  217. pep.

    # Welcome

  218. pep.

    Agenda today?

  219. Guus

    I got one

  220. Guus

    potentially to be discussed with SCAM first

  221. Guus

    but we should make up our minds if and how we're going to do the Summit, early next year.

  222. Guus

    I have no other agenda items (but didn't look at Trello)

  223. pep.

    Any other agenda item?

  224. pep.

    Guus, k

  225. MattJ

    None here

  226. pep.

    On trello in the "Items for discussion" there's txxmpp which should be gone?

  227. pep.

    And "License for website content" which I thought had been handled?

  228. MattJ

    I was under the impression that txxmpp was handled, yes

  229. Guus

    last week we agreed to let webteam handle txxmpp, so yeah, that can be gone

  230. pep.

    Ah apparently not. The newsletter license is fine though, which I remember being the original concern

  231. Guus

    I'm unsure about the license

  232. pep.

    Seems to be more or less very loosely assigned to ralph

  233. pep.

    # Summit 2021

  234. Guus

    Unsure if this is initially something for board. Maybe we should ask SCAM to kick into action. As I'm also in SCAM...

  235. pep.

    I guess that should be deferred to SCAM? Since FOSDEM is going online we'd probably do that online as well

  236. pep.

    If it happens

  237. pep.

    Which is probably also a SCAM concern?

  238. pep.

    happy to discuss it here quickly though

  239. Guus

    I personally feel that an in-person summit won't be an option

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  242. pep.

    I haven't really looked into the next iteration of FOSDEM yet

  243. Guus

    FOSDEM won't be a physical event either.

  244. pep.

    Yeah that's all I know. I meant organization-wise

  245. Seve

    > I personally feel that an in-person summit won't be an option I have the same feeling

  246. pep.

    How many people do we expect if the even is online? Do we expect more than usual? (even if there's always a not-so-prioritized feed up)

  247. Guus

    your guess is as good as any, I think.

  248. jonas’

    I’d also note that if we want to do an online event and if we find that we need infrastructure for that, iteam needs to know well in advance

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  251. pep.

    jonas’, agreed

  252. jonas’

    I’d also note that if we want to do an online event and if we find that we need infrastructure for that (as opposed to piggy-backing on FOSDEM if possible or renting e.g. zoom), iteam needs to know well in advance

  253. Guus

    lets punt this to SCAM, with a request to come with a proposal or dismissal soon-ish.

  254. Seve


  255. pep.

    Guus, sure. There's supposed to be a monthly SCAM meeting next thursday, let's try to think about it by then

  256. Guus

    I mainly put it on boards agenda since it was the first one in my calendar, and that I felt we needed to kickstart a discussion.

  257. Guus

    works for me pep.

  258. pep.

    Wait, tuesday*

  259. Guus

    also works for me 🙂

  260. pep.

    # AOB

  261. Guus

    none here

  262. Seve

    None :)

  263. pep.

    # Next

  264. pep.

    +1w ?

  265. MattJ


  266. Guus

    although I'd like to point out that Firstname Lastname neglected to actually fill out the wikipage for their board and council application.

  267. pep.

    # Close

  268. pep.

    thanks all

  269. Guus


  270. pep.

    Sending out the minutes in a few

  271. MattJ

    Thanks pep. :)

  272. Seve

    Have a great end of the week everyone!

  273. MattJ


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  286. jonas’

    I hear that there are folks who have jitsi services accomodating 60 people

  287. jonas’

    (in the same conference)

  288. jonas’

    just as a bit of info for a virtual summit

  289. jonas’

    we could probably use that infrastructure

  290. pep.

    I'm also not against a BBB tbh. It doesn't exactly have to be jitsi-meet. Whatever works, but free software :)

  291. Zash

    Mumble always worked well for me, if everyone can forego video.

  292. pep.


  293. jonas’

    I think some ability to have a whiteboard would be nice

  294. pep.

    Even though jitsi-meet and BBB also work without video and it's really mostly people weirdly insisting on it :/

  295. jonas’

    might be external of course

  296. jonas’

    I never tried to scale mumble to 20+ people

  297. pep.

    works fine with way more

  298. pep.

    Used to use it for WoW raids :x

  299. Shell

    mumble scales to 40+ people fine, it was (is?) heavily used for WoW raids

  300. pep.


  301. Shell


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  326. MattJ

    So the IETF is trialling Matrix and Zulip, but not trialling a modern XMPP setup?

  327. Zash

    Pretty much

  328. Ge0rG

    Maybe somebody™ can bribe them by offering a free but commercial-grade XMPP server?

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  331. MattJ

    I can probably be persuaded

  332. Ge0rG

    ..three weeks ago? ;)

  333. flow

    MattJ, context?

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  336. Ge0rG

    flow: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/UtPuWgXhYbjyf7wHGJh4ax4kQrA/

  337. flow

    Ge0rG, thanks

  338. MattJ

    Ge0rG: no, not three weeks ago

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  341. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I can help in increasing the availability, but I don't have the colo capacity for it

  342. MattJ

    Just put it in the cloud

  343. MattJ

    I thought you said commercial-grade :)

  344. moparisthebest

    make sure you put cloudflare in front of it

  345. moparisthebest

    that's the benchmark for commercial-grade right?

  346. Ge0rG

    MattJ: you can feel assured that I'm fully commercial-grade

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  350. MattJ

    Until your CMOS battery dies

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  352. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I'm pretty sure I never was equipped with a CMOS battery, but I'll ask my mother

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  354. Ge0rG

    MattJ: what I tried to say is: I'd like to support and provide a second pair of hands, as long as it's running on someone else's hardware / cloud / toaster

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  356. MattJ

    Can do

  357. MattJ

    Especially if jonas’ donates monitoring

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  361. jonas’

    will do

  362. MattJ

    Ge0rG: can you email me exactly what they want? I'm confused about what they want to host themselves and what they want hosted for them, and whether they want anonymous auth or what

  363. eta

    MattJ: "We are not, at this time, planning to host jabber accounts. We may revisit that as an option as we continue to gather more feedback."

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  365. Zash

    So the main problem is that it's hard to aquire an XMPP account. But they're not going to host those. And now they're hosting Matrix accounts.

  366. Zash

    <Insert joke about the IETF having many standards>

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  368. moparisthebest

    it's ok tell them you don't want them to host jabber accounts you want them to host XMPP accounts

  369. MattJ

    *Snikket accounts

  370. moparisthebest

    if that fails, tell them you heard about this great new chat system named... yea :)

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