XSF Discussion - 2020-10-02


  1. antranigv has joined
  2. stpeter has joined
  3. stpeter has left
  4. peetah has left
  5. peetah has joined
  6. adityaborikar has joined
  7. alameyo has left
  8. alameyo has joined
  9. paul has left
  10. antranigv has left
  11. adityaborikar has left
  12. Alex has left
  13. adityaborikar has joined
  14. stpeter has joined
  15. stpeter has left
  16. Andrzej has joined
  17. mimi89999 has left
  18. sidereal has joined
  19. sidereal has left
  20. Andrzej has left
  21. mdosch has left
  22. mdosch has joined
  23. Lance has left
  24. mukt2 has left
  25. Andrzej has joined
  26. Seve has left
  27. Andrzej has left
  28. alameyo has left
  29. alameyo has joined
  30. mukt2 has joined
  31. adityaborikar has left
  32. adityaborikar has joined
  33. neshtaxmpp has left
  34. mukt2 has left
  35. mukt2 has joined
  36. mimi89999 has joined
  37. stpeter has joined
  38. stpeter has left
  39. mukt2 has left
  40. mdosch has left
  41. mdosch has joined
  42. mukt2 has joined
  43. Yagiza has joined
  44. adityaborikar has left
  45. adityaborikar has joined
  46. Andrzej has joined
  47. karoshi has joined
  48. Seve has joined
  49. Andrzej has left
  50. dwd has joined
  51. mdosch has left
  52. karoshi has left
  53. mdosch has joined
  54. lovetox has joined
  55. eevvoor has joined
  56. eevvoor has left
  57. eevvoor has joined
  58. lovetox has left
  59. eevvoor has left
  60. paul has joined
  61. eevvoor has joined
  62. Tobias has joined
  63. alameyo has left
  64. alameyo has joined
  65. peetah has left
  66. peetah has joined
  67. stpeter has joined
  68. stpeter has left
  69. alex-a-soto has left
  70. alex-a-soto has joined
  71. Andrzej has joined
  72. pep. has left
  73. Alex has joined
  74. sonny has left
  75. Andrzej has left
  76. sonny has joined
  77. Andrzej has joined
  78. Shell has left
  79. Mikaela has joined
  80. krauq has left
  81. krauq has joined
  82. Andrzej has left
  83. Andrzej has joined
  84. sonny has left
  85. mdosch has left
  86. mdosch has joined
  87. mdosch has left
  88. mdosch has joined
  89. emus has joined
  90. papatutuwawa has joined
  91. mdosch has left
  92. mdosch has joined
  93. mdosch has left
  94. mdosch has joined
  95. mdosch has left
  96. mdosch has joined
  97. Andrzej has left
  98. sonny has joined
  99. neshtaxmpp has joined
  100. waqas has left
  101. debacle has joined
  102. mukt2 has left
  103. mukt2 has joined
  104. sonny has left
  105. sonny has joined
  106. sonny has left
  107. sonny has joined
  108. sonny has left
  109. sonny has joined
  110. sonny has left
  111. stpeter has joined
  112. stpeter has left
  113. sonny has joined
  114. mukt2 has left
  115. mukt2 has joined
  116. papatutuwawa has left
  117. Andrzej has joined
  118. lskdjf has joined
  119. winfried has left
  120. winfried has joined
  121. Daniel does anyone still happen to have a link to the barbecue vs bazaar blog post (or what ever the analogy was) that argues that Slack and WhatsApp can’t be done in the same app
  122. wurstsalat Daniel, https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/05/16/banquets-and-barbecues/
  123. Daniel wurstsalat, thanks
  124. karoshi has joined
  125. Daniel so it was neither bbqs nor bazaars. no wonder I didn’t find anything with Google :-)
  126. Daniel so it wasn’t bbqs and bazaars. no wonder I didn’t find anything with Google :-)
  127. wurstsalat docs.modernxmpp.org had it in its footnotes :)
  128. Daniel i still find the analogy odd because it doesn’t really make sense to me which of those has more people
  129. Daniel or is more intimate or whatever
  130. adityaborikar has left
  131. krauq has left
  132. krauq has joined
  133. MattJ Daniel: see also https://docs.modernxmpp.org/rationale/#group-chats
  134. APach has left
  135. APach has joined
  136. krauq has left
  137. krauq has joined
  138. mdosch A barbecue is usually outside and informal, so random people from nearby can join and a banquette is invitation only. So banquette is private group and barbecue is public channel?
  139. Daniel only that it is the exact opposite in the text
  140. Daniel but yes that's why i'm confused
  141. Ge0rG The terminology didn't age very well in the time of a global pandemic.
  142. goffi has joined
  143. mdosch > only that it is the exact opposite in the text > but yes that's why i'm confused He, maybe BBQs are different at their place. Here you do them in the park or on the river and the BBQ groups happily mix and get together. Like on a festival. Banquette, at least for me, has the formal, invitation only, exclusive touch. 🤔
  144. xecks has joined
  145. Nekit has left
  146. Nekit has joined
  147. DebXWoody has joined
  148. Guus I have no clue what the context here is, but in my locale, a banquette does not imply any invitation type. It's more of a 'self-service' type of dinner setting, rather than you being served by a waiter.
  149. mdosch Ah, that's what we call buffet here.
  150. Daniel In their definition I think it's more of fundraiser
  151. Daniel People don't know each utter
  152. Daniel People don't know each other
  153. Daniel And are united by a single topic / cause
  154. Guus Yea, we frequently use 'buffet' too. Maybe I got my wires crossed.
  155. mdosch Dict says > banquet (a large celebratory meal; a feast) (noun) Festmahl {n}, Bankett {n}
  156. MattJ I don't think I've been to a barbeque of more than ~8 people
  157. mdosch > I don't think I've been to a barbeque of more than ~8 people Go to the isar beach in summer. Hundreds if not thousands do barbecue. 😃
  158. MattJ Probably says more about me than how the food is cooked
  159. mdosch But I guess we can agree that those terms are not good chosen as it seems they get different interpretations.
  160. MattJ Appears so
  161. alameyo has left
  162. alameyo has joined
  163. mukt2 has left
  164. Steve Kille has left
  165. Steve Kille has joined
  166. jcbrand has joined
  167. debacle has left
  168. adityaborikar has joined
  169. sonny has left
  170. sonny has joined
  171. sonny has left
  172. sonny has joined
  173. mukt2 has joined
  174. speedball has joined
  175. sonny has left
  176. sonny has joined
  177. j.r has left
  178. papatutuwawa has joined
  179. j.r has joined
  180. mukt2 has left
  181. mukt2 has joined
  182. mukt2 has left
  183. mukt2 has joined
  184. adityaborikar has left
  185. adityaborikar has joined
  186. debacle has joined
  187. LNJ has joined
  188. Andrzej has left
  189. Andrzej has joined
  190. Testing has joined
  191. arc has joined
  192. DebXWoody has left
  193. Testing has left
  194. antranigv has joined
  195. Guest has joined
  196. mukt2 has left
  197. speedball has left
  198. Kev Has anyone else wanted to add 'favouriting' chats to their client, and if so what did they do? I'm thinking that a clone of the BM2 node but that contains favourites instead of bookmarks would be sensible for simplicity, although clearly BM2 could also be used with the <extensions/>.
  199. Zash Kev: Conversations has it
  200. Kev It's a shame that BMs are our mechanism for autojoining rooms, because logically what I want is to BM these chats (but don't want all my autojoined/known rooms to be BMd!).
  201. Kev Zash: Ta. Do you know what they're doing? Daniel?
  202. Zash I don't know more than that it pinns the chat to the top of the list of conversations
  203. Daniel It a local feature
  204. Daniel But publishing it will obviously be very easy once a XEP exists
  205. Zash I've wondered if maybe one of these decades we should go ahead and make "bookmarks" a native concept akin to rosters, possibly merge with rosters, since it's such a big part of chats.
  206. Zash Mental note for XMPP 2.0
  207. Zash Daniel: The per-chat notification setting would be valuable to the server for CSI and push notification decisions, fwiw.
  208. Zash That's separate, right?
  209. Daniel Currently. Yes
  210. sonny has left
  211. sonny has joined
  212. Daniel But yes combining open and favorites might be a good idea
  213. j.r has left
  214. Kev Zash: Rosters used to be perfectly usable for this, and allowed arbitrary extensions, and people habitually stored groupchats in them and stuff. But there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth and now people believe they should only contain Real People. Sadly.
  215. Daniel Otherwise you might end up in weird situations where something is favorite but not open
  216. Kev Daniel: If I was to do something like BM2 (although changing from BM1:private to BM2 would make this much less trivial) and store <favourite xmlns=.../> inside <extensions/> would that be something Conversations would adopt, or do you see issues with it?
  217. Kev Daniel: If I was to do something like using BM2 (although changing from BM1:private to BM2 would make this much less trivial) and store <favourite xmlns=.../> inside <extensions/> would that be something Conversations would adopt, or do you see issues with it?
  218. j.r has joined
  219. Kev Daniel: If I was to do something like using BM2 (although changing from BM1:private to BM2 would make this much less trivial for me) and store <favourite xmlns=.../> inside <extensions/> would that be something Conversations would adopt, or do you see issues with it?
  220. j.r has left
  221. j.r has joined
  222. Daniel I think so. I'm not sure I'm ready to sync open conversations yet. Decoupling this would make it easier to implemt short term. But mid term coupling is the right way (see arguments above)
  223. Kev It's not just about 'open' conversations for me. I'd like a user to be able to 'pin' certain chats for easy access (or possibly even for the client to pin them automatically based on frequent use).
  224. LNJ has left
  225. Daniel Right. But pinned is always a subset of open, no?
  226. sonny has left
  227. sonny has joined
  228. Kev I'm not exactly sure what 'open' means.
  229. Zash pinned = intersection ( open, favorite ) maybe?
  230. Kev Ah, no, it's not.
  231. Kev Because 'open' only applies to MUCs, right? I'm interested in all chats.
  232. LNJ has joined
  233. Kev So for MUCs Pinned is a subset of Joined, but there are also Pinned 1:1s.
  234. mukt2 has joined
  235. adityaborikar has left
  236. adityaborikar has joined
  237. Zash Kev: When was that (anything in rosters)? Pre RFC 3921?
  238. andrey.g has joined
  239. Daniel Right. I guess not all clients have the concept of open
  240. Kev Even up to early 3921bis times.
  241. Daniel But in Conversations it means available in the overview not just in the roster
  242. Daniel Or open tab in some clients I guess
  243. Kev Gotcha. Yeah, the last released version of Swift had tabs that probably correspond to this.
  244. Kev So in that case pinned *wouldn't* be a subset of open.
  245. sonny has left
  246. sonny has joined
  247. alex-a-soto has left
  248. eta wait, using the roster for groupchats sounds ideal
  249. eta you even get roster groups
  250. alex-a-soto has joined
  251. jonas’ until you consider the effects of sending presence
  252. Kev Yes. There are countless upsides.
  253. jonas’ and the confusion if a client doesn’t know it’s a group chat
  254. Kev jonas': There's nothing that says you have to send presence to things in your roster.
  255. Kev (Unless there's an appropriate presence sub, naturally)
  256. Zash If the server is fully aware that those are groupchats, then it can prevent you from trying too
  257. paul has left
  258. paul has joined
  259. LNJ has left
  260. APach has left
  261. APach has joined
  262. DebXWoody has joined
  263. sonny has left
  264. sonny has joined
  265. sonny has left
  266. papatutuwawa has left
  267. papatutuwawa has joined
  268. Guest has left
  269. sonny has joined
  270. sonny has left
  271. Shell has joined
  272. adityaborikar has left
  273. adityaborikar has joined
  274. sonny has joined
  275. sonny has left
  276. sonny has joined
  277. goffi has left
  278. mukt2 has left
  279. sonny has left
  280. pep. has joined
  281. krauq has left
  282. krauq has joined
  283. arc has left
  284. arc has joined
  285. mukt2 has joined
  286. APach has left
  287. sonny has joined
  288. APach has joined
  289. alameyo has left
  290. j.r has left
  291. sonny has left
  292. sonny has joined
  293. j.r has joined
  294. j.r has left
  295. j.r has joined
  296. winfried has left
  297. winfried has joined
  298. sonny has left
  299. j.r has left
  300. andrey.g has left
  301. sonny has joined
  302. winfried has left
  303. winfried has joined
  304. mukt2 has left
  305. j.r has joined
  306. sonny has left
  307. sonny has joined
  308. moparisthebest I just got a very nice random email from someone that says "XEP-0148: In the schema the base64Binary should be xs:base64Binary." does anyone know if that is true? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0418.html#schema
  309. moparisthebest I just got a very nice random email from someone that says "XEP-0418: In the schema the base64Binary should be xs:base64Binary." does anyone know if that is true? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0418.html#schema
  310. pep. I'd say "probably"
  311. pep. Yes, the xs prefix being already declared above
  312. moparisthebest looks like I need to update this text anyway: "XEP-XXXX: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/dox.html"
  313. pep. heh
  314. moparisthebest so it *should* be prefixed by xs: ?
  315. pep. Is any other type in XEPs prefixed with xs? Does anybody know how to Schema at the XSF?
  316. larma the way you currently do it it's pointing to an undefined type
  317. moparisthebest I certainly do not (know how to Schema)
  318. larma put the schema and the xml in a schema validator and see if it validates 😉
  319. moparisthebest ok well I picked 4 other random XEPs and all of them have "schema will be supplied at some later point" LOL
  320. jonas’ I did a thing which lints xeps including schema validation.
  321. jonas’ I get the impression I should clean it up
  322. mukt2 has joined
  323. moparisthebest https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0065.html#schema these all say type='xs:...'
  324. moparisthebest I'll put in a PR fixing both of those issues and let council sort it out :)
  325. larma moparisthebest, according to https://www.freeformatter.com/xml-validator-xsd.html you need to put xs:base64Binary. Also your example "vOIBIAABAAAAAAABB2V4YW1wbGUDb3JnAAABAAEAACkQAAAAAAAADAAKAAj5HO5JuEe+mA" is actually invalid base64, it must be "vOIBIAABAAAAAAABB2V4YW1wbGUDb3JnAAABAAEAACkQAAAAAAAADAAKAAj5HO5JuEe+mA==" 😉
  326. pep. moparisthebest, yeah schemas in XEPs are a mess :(
  327. moparisthebest larma, "In both the query and response, the content of the <dns/> element is the DNS on-the-wire format as defined in RFC 1035 [1]. The body MUST be encoded with base64 RFC 4648 [5]. Padding characters for base64 MUST NOT be included." :)
  328. pep. Or well, they aren't, because they don't exist
  329. larma moparisthebest, well in that case you are not using the xs:base64Binary type
  330. krauq has left
  331. moparisthebest maybe... where is *that* defined
  332. krauq has joined
  333. pep. https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#base64Binary
  334. moparisthebest > Note that this grammar requires the number of non-whitespace characters in the lexical form to be a multiple of four, and for equals signs to appear only at the end of the lexical form; strings which do not meet these constraints are not legal lexical forms of base64Binary because they cannot successfully be decoded by base64 decoders.
  335. moparisthebest well that's annoying
  336. pep. Write your own type! :P
  337. moparisthebest puts in PR changing Schema section to "Will enter later"
  338. pep. :/
  339. moparisthebest just joking, but it's pretty tempting :)
  340. moparisthebest the reason I forbade padding characters was because I figured this would often be used as a proxy or substitute for DoH and it does the same https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoffman-dns-over-https-01#section-5.1
  341. moparisthebest actually no, it specifies base64url and I specify base64, how unfortunate
  342. moparisthebest no memory if that was a simple mistake or I did it so I could use the base64Binary schema type...
  343. krauq has left
  344. krauq has joined
  345. larma has left
  346. larma has joined
  347. alameyo has joined
  348. deuill has joined
  349. deuill has left
  350. mukt2 has left
  351. adityaborikar has left
  352. adityaborikar has joined
  353. stpeter has joined
  354. stpeter has left
  355. winfried has left
  356. winfried has joined
  357. winfried has left
  358. winfried has joined
  359. sonny has left
  360. sonny has joined
  361. mukt2 has joined
  362. karoshi has left
  363. winfried has left
  364. winfried has joined
  365. karoshi has joined
  366. arc has left
  367. arc has joined
  368. LNJ has joined
  369. mukt2 has left
  370. arc has left
  371. arc has joined
  372. mukt2 has joined
  373. floretta has left
  374. arc has left
  375. arc has joined
  376. emus has left
  377. Lance has joined
  378. mukt2 has left
  379. mukt2 has joined
  380. winfried has left
  381. winfried has joined
  382. winfried has left
  383. winfried has joined
  384. floretta has joined
  385. slouchy6 has joined
  386. karoshi has left
  387. winfried has left
  388. Wojtek has joined
  389. winfried has joined
  390. Wojtek has left
  391. Wojtek has joined
  392. Wojtek has left
  393. krauq has left
  394. Wojtek has joined
  395. krauq has joined
  396. neshtaxmpp has left
  397. mukt2 has left
  398. mukt2 has joined
  399. APach has left
  400. Steve Kille has left
  401. Steve Kille has joined
  402. neshtaxmpp has joined
  403. emus has joined
  404. lovetox has joined
  405. eevvoor has left
  406. eevvoor has joined
  407. karoshi has joined
  408. andrey.g has joined
  409. slouchy6 has left
  410. slouchy6 has joined
  411. karoshi has left
  412. karoshi has joined
  413. Zash has left
  414. mdosch is watching 🏒 has left
  415. mdosch has left
  416. eevvoor has left
  417. Zash has joined
  418. mdosch has joined
  419. mdosch is watching 🏒 has joined
  420. slouchy6 has left
  421. adityaborikar has left
  422. adityaborikar has joined
  423. slouchy6 has joined
  424. slouchy6 has left
  425. slouchy6 has joined
  426. slouchy6 has left
  427. slouchy6 has joined
  428. mukt2 has left
  429. karoshi has left
  430. pep_ has joined
  431. mukt2 has joined
  432. pasdesushi has joined
  433. pep_ has left
  434. debacle has left
  435. pasdesushi has left
  436. eevvoor has joined
  437. neshtaxmpp has left
  438. eevvoor has left
  439. sonny has left
  440. sonny has joined
  441. goffi has joined
  442. Nano4BeingYou has joined
  443. mukt2 has left
  444. mukt2 has joined
  445. sonny has left
  446. sonny has joined
  447. pasdesushi has joined
  448. emus has left
  449. emus has joined
  450. pasdesushi has left
  451. eevvoor has joined
  452. antranigv has left
  453. antranigv has joined
  454. APach has joined
  455. pasdesushi has joined
  456. debacle has joined
  457. mukt2 has left
  458. eevvoor has left
  459. pasdesushi has left
  460. eevvoor has joined
  461. pasdesushi has joined
  462. vanitasvitae has left
  463. vanitasvitae has joined
  464. neshtaxmpp has joined
  465. vanitasvitae has left
  466. vanitasvitae has joined
  467. mukt2 has joined
  468. vanitasvitae has left
  469. vanitasvitae has joined
  470. murabito has joined
  471. murabito has left
  472. murabito has joined
  473. sonny has left
  474. pasdesushi has left
  475. vanitasvitae has left
  476. vanitasvitae has joined
  477. vanitasvitae has left
  478. antranigv has left
  479. vanitasvitae has joined
  480. sonny has joined
  481. sonny has left
  482. sonny has joined
  483. vanitasvitae has left
  484. vanitasvitae has joined
  485. sonny has left
  486. mukt2 has left
  487. vanitasvitae has left
  488. pasdesushi has joined
  489. sonny has joined
  490. karoshi has joined
  491. sonny has left
  492. vanitasvitae has joined
  493. wurstsalat has left
  494. krauq has left
  495. krauq has joined
  496. mukt2 has joined
  497. peetah has left
  498. wurstsalat has joined
  499. krauq has left
  500. krauq has joined
  501. Andrzej has left
  502. sonny has joined
  503. sonny has left
  504. peetah has joined
  505. Yagiza has left
  506. Nano4BeingYou has left
  507. sonny has joined
  508. serge90 has joined
  509. debacle has left
  510. sonny has left
  511. sonny has joined
  512. Andrzej has joined
  513. sonny has left
  514. vanitasvitae has left
  515. vanitasvitae has joined
  516. sonny has joined
  517. slouchy6 has left
  518. sonny has left
  519. sonny has joined
  520. stpeter has joined
  521. stpeter has left
  522. Andrzej has left
  523. Lance has left
  524. mukt2 has left
  525. eevvoor has left
  526. krauq has left
  527. krauq has joined
  528. sonny has left
  529. Andrzej has joined
  530. murabito has left
  531. Lance has joined
  532. andrey.g has left
  533. mukt2 has joined
  534. sonny has joined
  535. murabito has joined
  536. Andrzej has left
  537. Andrzej has joined
  538. pasdesushi has left
  539. pasdesushi has joined
  540. pasdesushi has left
  541. pasdesushi has joined
  542. krauq has left
  543. krauq has joined
  544. APach has left
  545. APach has joined
  546. pasdesushi has left
  547. sonny has left
  548. sonny has joined
  549. werdan has joined
  550. Andrzej has left
  551. sonny has left
  552. sonny has joined
  553. pasdesushi has joined
  554. DebXWoody has left
  555. sonny has left
  556. sonny has joined
  557. pasdesushi has left
  558. krauq has left
  559. krauq has joined
  560. sonny has left
  561. winfried has left
  562. winfried has joined
  563. pasdesushi has joined
  564. pasdesushi has left
  565. pasdesushi has joined
  566. pasdesushi has left
  567. peetah has left
  568. pasdesushi has joined
  569. pasdesushi has left
  570. pasdesushi has joined
  571. pasdesushi has left
  572. pasdesushi has joined
  573. werdan has left
  574. sonny has joined
  575. Lance has left
  576. pasdesushi has left
  577. Lance has joined
  578. sonny has left
  579. neshtaxmpp has left
  580. neshtaxmpp has joined
  581. sonny has joined
  582. sonny has left
  583. sonny has joined
  584. Lance has left
  585. Lance has joined
  586. Mikaela has left
  587. sonny has left
  588. Andrzej has joined
  589. karoshi has left
  590. serge90 has left
  591. antranigv has joined
  592. Andrzej has left
  593. antranigv has left
  594. marc0s has left
  595. sonny has joined
  596. edhelas has left
  597. edhelas has joined
  598. slouchy6 has joined
  599. wurstsalat has left
  600. daniel has joined
  601. daniel has left
  602. daniel has joined
  603. lovetox has left
  604. daniel has left
  605. daniel has joined
  606. daniel has left
  607. daniel has joined
  608. daniel has left
  609. daniel has joined
  610. daniel has left
  611. wurstsalat has joined
  612. sonny has left
  613. sonny has joined
  614. debacle has joined
  615. sonny has left
  616. stpeter has joined
  617. stpeter has left
  618. sonny has joined
  619. pasdesushi has joined
  620. xecks has left
  621. xecks has joined
  622. sonny has left
  623. alameyo has left
  624. alameyo has joined
  625. paul has left
  626. paul has joined
  627. pasdesushi has left
  628. stpeter has joined
  629. stpeter has left
  630. sonny has joined
  631. mukt2 has left
  632. sonny has left
  633. emus has left
  634. Tobias has left
  635. Andrzej has joined
  636. sonny has joined
  637. sonny has left
  638. Guest has joined
  639. Guest has left
  640. lskdjf has left
  641. dwd has left
  642. Andrzej has left
  643. mukt2 has joined
  644. goffi has left
  645. sonny has joined
  646. Nekit has left
  647. sonny has left
  648. mdosch has left
  649. mdosch has joined
  650. Andrzej has joined
  651. debacle has left
  652. sonny has joined
  653. mukt2 has left
  654. winfried has left
  655. winfried has joined
  656. winfried has left
  657. winfried has joined
  658. sonny has left
  659. mukt2 has joined
  660. neshtaxmpp has left
  661. Andrzej has left
  662. Andrzej has joined
  663. jcbrand has left
  664. sonny has joined
  665. Andrzej has left
  666. Andrzej has joined
  667. winfried has left
  668. winfried has joined
  669. winfried has left
  670. winfried has joined
  671. alameyo has left
  672. winfried has left
  673. winfried has joined
  674. alameyo has joined
  675. winfried has left
  676. winfried has joined