XSF Discussion - 2020-10-08

This is how shared Twitter accounts work. It's not some policy we came up with

jcbrand: I know

what's the xmpp compliance status of Psi / Psi+?

Ge0rG: How do you come to the question?

emus: I was asked whether Psi is a viable XMPP client for beginners.

Ge0rG, i think the unreleased version / dev version of Psi has some good features

but it hasn’t been released yet. so that makes it difficult for beginners

Daniel: thanks.

And the last release is outdated? Does it have MAM / Carbons at least?

Ge0rG, It's the same classic Psi UX. Which is to say, old-fashioned and very "FLOSS". So even if it were highly compliant I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner.

Ge0rG, Unless we're talking a beginner server developer, because its debugging toolkit is still the best of the clients.

Ge0rG: Why not... yax.im? 😅

Daniel, Psi 1.5 was relased a month ago

it's about IETF members who don't want to bother with xmpp as their primary job.

Daniel, I wonder if it includes the "good features" you have in mind

Ge0rG, Oh, no. What platform are they running on?

emus: I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that my non-commercial public xmpp server would be a replacement for a client

I don't even offer a converse.js with login.

Ge0rG: I meant you app

dwd: all of them?

emus: sorry, I've got no time for games

I'd go with Matt's recommendation of BeagleIM for Mac. Maybe Swift for Windows? Gajim or Dino for Linux.

dwd: we've recommended Gajim for Linux and Windows. Sorry.

Oh, I use Gajim on Windows as well, no need to apologise.

flow: https://github.com/psi-im/psi/releases/tag/1.5 doesn't sound reassuring

Ge0rG, true

I wonder if the reason for psi+'s existence still exists :) sadly rion is not around to ask

Ge0rG, I think a web client needs to be in the recommendations too. I assume ConverseJS, but I'm not sure what else we have in this space currently.

dwd: Converse.js was on the suggestion list, yes.

(the list I asked for on this channel four weeks ago)

Oh, good - didn't see the request or the list.

> emus: sorry, I've got no time for games I cannot follow, but okay

emus: I asked for the feature set of Psi. You answered with a client for a different platform

Ok

emus: and please be assured, I'm the first person to suggest yaxim where it fits.

Alright

ok, thanks for the feedback. I've written a response now.

moparisthebest: https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1314147875144839169?s=20

👍

I just submitted https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/817 to fix a small issue in the newsletter

MattJ: Thanks

I'm on a train with bad connectivity, I'll pass today's meeting. I don't think we had anything special to discuss anyway?

well, there wasn't an agenda, so nothing pressing at the very least, I guess

I don't mind skipping this weeks meeting

Me neither

Sounds good to m... oh wait

😄

Link Mauve, it would be nice to see https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/pull/6/files merged! at the moment, I have to send potential implementors to other projects to find 'valid' examples :)

what would be even awesomer to see, is if XEPs would have a list of implementing clients next to them based on the information from the project doap files 😇

lskdjf: That was the plan along actually

wurstsalat: are there sone generators to xml?

for monal

not at the moment but it wouldn't be that hard I guess? otherwise for now take exemple on an existing file it's pretty straightforward

emus, I don’t think there are generators

> lskdjf: That was the plan along actually Zash I know, but I wanted to mention that I'm eagerly awaiting it 😉

but yes, simply take the file of some other project and modify it to your needs

wurstsalat: So I have to do that by hand 😥

yes good piint

thing is: you have to do it once in a single place, and it can be used to update stuff elsewhere

see https://gajim.org/support/extensions/ (which gets updated automagically)

kk

wurstsalat: maybe the complete/partial keywords could be removed in the rendered version and only colors kept, on the xep number for exemple

pep., I tried that, but didn’t like the look..

also (color-)blind readability

coloring links differently is also a thing which I wanted to avoid

Hey guys. I was looking at jingle file transfer over webrtc datachannel but decided to switch to QUIC. Is there any work in progress XEP for that? ✏

rion, not that I know of but I've been closely following esni/ech/https-svc/srv2 etc etc and when those settled down a bit planned to introduce a new xep using those to discover direct TLS and also QUIC services

you can get to most of those from https://tlswg.org/draft-ietf-tls-esni/draft-ietf-tls-esni.html

according the latest specs QUIC is not compatible with TURN but we still have socks5. So I guess it's just perfect. especially taking into account jingle supports transports fallback ✏

moparisthebest: thanks, I'll take a look.

In any case I'll try to implement it for jingle and if it goes well I'll design a XEP.

I hope Belarus won't follow Russia forbidding TLS 1.3 / esni and other cool things

otherwise I'll have to consider to move somewhere else.

rion, since you are here, I was previously wondering if the reason for psi+'s existence still exists?

or to ask differently: would you recommend me to look into psi or psi+?

flow: nope. psi+ is just a brand kept from the previous fork. nothing more.

rion, is there (still) any functional difference between psi and psi+?

all patches were merged to Psi

Ge0rG, ^

allright, time to emerge psi then :)

Gentoo? if doesn't work well from portage, let me know. I'm a maintainer there.

yes, will do

try 9999

I also have an overlay which is usually has all the recent changes to psi ebuild. iirc not everything is merged to the portage

flow: oh yes. plugins are available in the overlay only. and still can't find some spare time to migrate ebuild to use cmake for them which is supported for a long time. qmake builds aren't well maintained anymore. ✏

The old Psi maintainers were bastards who didn't like merging patches. I hear new management is nicer ;)

(For anyone who doesn't know the history and thinks I'm attacking someone, I was maintainer at the time)

Kev: Refering to your past self in plural, is that good? :P

We think so.

I guess you're in majority then

Kev: that's fine, not all those patches were well designed. I fixed some before merging and merged some others with closed eyes because people like those features.

:)

Unfortunately in open source it's quite hard to follow high standards. Contributors just go away when you say their patches do not look good..

and then you realize you don't time to fix everything on your own.

Tip: put all those things in a separate repository and call it "community maintained"

What grade of trolling would it be to turn up in the QUIC WG and start making noise about whether or not it's compatible with SOCKS5?

You can even put your own hacky experiments in there.. oh whops now it's deployed in production in thousands of servers.

(It probably is assuming it's layered over UDP)

dwd: That reads a bit like "How do I make this road drive itself cross-country?"

Wait is there UDP SOCKS5?

What

Never mind me then

Zash, Yeah, it's the big advantage over SOCKS4.

And nobody asked rion for the currently supported set of features.