XSF Discussion - 2020-10-08


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  97. jcbrand This is how shared Twitter accounts work. It's not some policy we came up with
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  141. emus jcbrand: I know
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  152. Ge0rG what's the xmpp compliance status of Psi / Psi+?
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  166. emus Ge0rG: How do you come to the question?
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  170. Ge0rG emus: I was asked whether Psi is a viable XMPP client for beginners.
  171. Daniel Ge0rG, i think the unreleased version / dev version of Psi has some good features
  172. Daniel but it hasn’t been released yet. so that makes it difficult for beginners
  173. Ge0rG Daniel: thanks.
  174. Ge0rG And the last release is outdated? Does it have MAM / Carbons at least?
  175. dwd Ge0rG, It's the same classic Psi UX. Which is to say, old-fashioned and very "FLOSS". So even if it were highly compliant I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner.
  176. dwd Ge0rG, Unless we're talking a beginner server developer, because its debugging toolkit is still the best of the clients.
  177. emus Ge0rG: Why not... yax.im? πŸ˜…
  178. flow Daniel, Psi 1.5 was relased a month ago
  179. Ge0rG it's about IETF members who don't want to bother with xmpp as their primary job.
  180. flow Daniel, I wonder if it includes the "good features" you have in mind
  181. dwd Ge0rG, Oh, no. What platform are they running on?
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  183. Ge0rG emus: I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that my non-commercial public xmpp server would be a replacement for a client
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  186. Ge0rG I don't even offer a converse.js with login.
  187. emus Ge0rG: I meant you app
  188. Ge0rG dwd: all of them?
  189. Ge0rG emus: sorry, I've got no time for games
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  191. dwd I'd go with Matt's recommendation of BeagleIM for Mac. Maybe Swift for Windows? Gajim or Dino for Linux.
  192. Ge0rG dwd: we've recommended Gajim for Linux and Windows. Sorry.
  193. dwd Oh, I use Gajim on Windows as well, no need to apologise.
  194. Ge0rG flow: https://github.com/psi-im/psi/releases/tag/1.5 doesn't sound reassuring
  195. flow Ge0rG, true
  196. flow I wonder if the reason for psi+'s existence still exists :) sadly rion is not around to ask
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  198. dwd Ge0rG, I think a web client needs to be in the recommendations too. I assume ConverseJS, but I'm not sure what else we have in this space currently.
  199. Ge0rG dwd: Converse.js was on the suggestion list, yes.
  200. Ge0rG (the list I asked for on this channel four weeks ago)
  201. dwd Oh, good - didn't see the request or the list.
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  203. emus > emus: sorry, I've got no time for games I cannot follow, but okay
  204. Ge0rG emus: I asked for the feature set of Psi. You answered with a client for a different platform
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  206. emus Ok
  207. Ge0rG emus: and please be assured, I'm the first person to suggest yaxim where it fits.
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  211. emus Alright
  212. Ge0rG ok, thanks for the feedback. I've written a response now.
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  241. emus moparisthebest: https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1314147875144839169?s=20
  242. Zash πŸ‘
  243. MattJ I just submitted https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/817 to fix a small issue in the newsletter
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  246. emus MattJ: Thanks
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  319. pep. I'm on a train with bad connectivity, I'll pass today's meeting. I don't think we had anything special to discuss anyway?
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  324. Guus well, there wasn't an agenda, so nothing pressing at the very least, I guess
  325. Guus I don't mind skipping this weeks meeting
  326. Seve Me neither
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  339. MattJ Sounds good to m... oh wait
  340. Seve πŸ˜„
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  371. wurstsalat Link Mauve, it would be nice to see https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/pull/6/files merged! at the moment, I have to send potential implementors to other projects to find 'valid' examples :)
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  373. lskdjf what would be even awesomer to see, is if XEPs would have a list of implementing clients next to them based on the information from the project doap files πŸ˜‡
  374. Zash lskdjf: That was the plan along actually
  375. emus wurstsalat: are there sone generators to xml?
  376. emus for monal
  377. pep. not at the moment but it wouldn't be that hard I guess? otherwise for now take exemple on an existing file it's pretty straightforward
  378. wurstsalat emus, I don’t think there are generators
  379. lskdjf > lskdjf: That was the plan along actually Zash I know, but I wanted to mention that I'm eagerly awaiting it πŸ˜‰
  380. wurstsalat but yes, simply take the file of some other project and modify it to your needs
  381. emus wurstsalat: So I have to do that by hand πŸ˜₯
  382. emus yes good piint
  383. wurstsalat thing is: you have to do it once in a single place, and it can be used to update stuff elsewhere
  384. wurstsalat see https://gajim.org/support/extensions/ (which gets updated automagically)
  385. emus kk
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  389. pep. wurstsalat: maybe the complete/partial keywords could be removed in the rendered version and only colors kept, on the xep number for exemple
  390. wurstsalat pep., I tried that, but didn’t like the look..
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  392. Zash also (color-)blind readability
  393. wurstsalat coloring links differently is also a thing which I wanted to avoid
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  420. rion Hey guys. I was looking at jingle file transfer over webrtc datachannel but decided to switch to QUIC. Is there any work in progress XEPs for that?
  421. rion Hey guys. I was looking at jingle file transfer over webrtc datachannel but decided to switch to QUIC. Is there any work in progress XEP for that?
  422. moparisthebest rion, not that I know of but I've been closely following esni/ech/https-svc/srv2 etc etc and when those settled down a bit planned to introduce a new xep using those to discover direct TLS and also QUIC services
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  426. moparisthebest you can get to most of those from https://tlswg.org/draft-ietf-tls-esni/draft-ietf-tls-esni.html
  427. rion according the latest specs it's not compatible with TURN but we still have socks5. So I guess it's just perfect. especially taking into account jingle supports transports fallback
  428. rion according the latest specs QUIC is not compatible with TURN but we still have socks5. So I guess it's just perfect. especially taking into account jingle supports transports fallback
  429. rion moparisthebest: thanks, I'll take a look.
  430. rion In any case I'll try to implement it for jingle and if it goes well I'll design a XEP.
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  433. rion I hope Belarus won't follow Russia forbidding TLS 1.3 / esni and other cool things
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  435. rion otherwise I'll have to consider to move somewhere else.
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  437. flow rion, since you are here, I was previously wondering if the reason for psi+'s existence still exists?
  438. flow or to ask differently: would you recommend me to look into psi or psi+?
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  440. rion flow: nope. psi+ is just a brand kept from the previous fork. nothing more.
  441. flow rion, is there (still) any functional difference between psi and psi+?
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  444. rion all patches were merged to Psi
  445. jonas’ Ge0rG, ^
  446. flow allright, time to emerge psi then :)
  447. rion Gentoo? if doesn't work well from portage, let me know. I'm a maintainer there.
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  449. flow yes, will do
  450. rion try 9999
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  453. rion I also have an overlay which is usually has all the recent changes to psi ebuild. iirc not everything is merged to the portage
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  456. rion flow: oh yes. plugins are available on overlay only. and still can't find some spare time to migrate ebuild to use cmake for them which is supported for a long time. qmake builds aren't well maintained anymore.
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  459. rion flow: oh yes. plugins are available in the overlay only. and still can't find some spare time to migrate ebuild to use cmake for them which is supported for a long time. qmake builds aren't well maintained anymore.
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  478. Kev The old Psi maintainers were bastards who didn't like merging patches. I hear new management is nicer ;)
  479. Kev (For anyone who doesn't know the history and thinks I'm attacking someone, I was maintainer at the time)
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  481. Zash Kev: Refering to your past self in plural, is that good? :P
  482. Kev We think so.
  483. Zash I guess you're in majority then
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  486. rion Kev: that's fine, not all those patches were well designed. I fixed some before merging and merged some others with closed eyes because people like those features.
  487. Kev :)
  488. rion Unfortunately in open source it's quite hard to follow high standards. Contributors just go away when you say their patches do not look good..
  489. rion and then you realize you don't time to fix everything on your own.
  490. MattJ Tip: put all those things in a separate repository and call it "community maintained"
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  492. dwd What grade of trolling would it be to turn up in the QUIC WG and start making noise about whether or not it's compatible with SOCKS5?
  493. Zash You can even put your own hacky experiments in there.. oh whops now it's deployed in production in thousands of servers.
  494. dwd (It probably is assuming it's layered over UDP)
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  499. Zash dwd: That reads a bit like "How do I make this road drive itself cross-country?"
  500. Zash Wait is there UDP SOCKS5?
  501. Zash What
  502. Zash Never mind me then
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  535. dwd Zash, Yeah, it's the big advantage over SOCKS4.
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