XSF Discussion - 2020-10-30


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  310. Guus Can someone provide me with a temporary test account on a public server that has a certificate chain longer than two certificates please?
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  312. Ge0rG does let's encrypt count?
  313. Guus My Let'sEncrypt cert has no intermediate certs in the chain
  314. Guus (so: no?)
  315. Ge0rG if only we had xmpp.net
  316. Zash Pretty sure it has one intermediate
  317. Guus Then my count is off somewhere, checking...
  318. Zash If only Let's Encrypt had any competition left
  319. Guus ah, the chain that I am looking at doesn't include the CA cert
  320. Guus that's why I thought it didn't have an intermediate. My bad. Thanks Zash
  321. Holger Guus: So you no longer need an account? (Otherwise I could give you one with two intermediates.)
  322. Guus Holger, please do
  323. Guus a check for more than one is always interesting.
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  434. lovetox hm about the council discussion
  435. lovetox delay on subject is the edit date on the subject or not?
  436. lovetox or am i misremembering that
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  441. lovetox for the idea to add it to MAM
  442. lovetox yeah, just note that it can only be in MAM
  443. lovetox it can not be part of the MUC history
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  445. lovetox which is kind of weird, but i guess nobody wants to use MUC History anyway
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  447. lovetox whats also weird is
  448. lovetox https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#subject-mod
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  450. lovetox As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.
  451. lovetox > As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.
  452. lovetox SHOULD is wrong here in my opinion
  453. lovetox there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#order
  454. lovetox and its a MUST
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  463. Ge0rG lovetox: MAM doesn't solve the problem of seamlessly switching between history and live messages.
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  465. Ge0rG I never understood why I'm the only one bothered by that
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  467. lovetox why not?
  468. lovetox with deduplicating this works fine
  469. Ge0rG It's an ugly hack.
  470. Ge0rG And you need MUC history for the dedup
  471. lovetox Ge0rG, i think its a very low priority problem
  472. lovetox literally never seen a issue regarding that
  473. Ge0rG Or you need to fill the gap after receiving the first message after you joined.
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  475. Ge0rG lovetox: you don't see the issue because it's a race condition that's not happening often, and users are used to xmpp losing messages
  476. lovetox im not sure i see the problem, i join i request 0 history
  477. lovetox i receive a live message
  478. Ge0rG When do you fetch MAM?
  479. lovetox i request MAM, and sort all messages into my chat view according to the timestamp and order i receive from MAM
  480. Ge0rG But when do you request it?
  481. lovetox after successful join
  482. lovetox after the subject
  483. Ge0rG And you request everything after the last message you had in MAM before starting the join?
  484. lovetox no
  485. lovetox join -> receive subject -> request MAM
  486. Ge0rG Request MAM with which parameters?
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  488. lovetox the last stanza id i received, of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids
  489. lovetox and the last mam page gives me all the live messages received while i fetched mam
  490. lovetox so its fine at the end
  491. Ge0rG That sounds a bit racy
  492. lovetox this would need to be answered by a server dev
  493. Holger It's definitely racy πŸ™‚
  494. lovetox i dont see it
  495. Holger Making this non-racy would require some cluster-wide locks server-side.
  496. lovetox i receive the last mam page with the last message then i record that stanza id
  497. lovetox at that moment im definitly fine
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  500. Holger Well maybe I misunderstood. What I understood was: You issue a MAM-request, wait for the response, and effectively throw away any live messages received while you're waiting for the MAM response to be completed, right?
  501. lovetox no
  502. lovetox no message is dropped
  503. Ge0rG That's also what I understood
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  505. lovetox no i don’t record ids
  506. Holger Them I misunderstood "of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids".
  507. lovetox normally when a live message comes in
  508. lovetox you have to record the id
  509. lovetox this is now your last stanza -id
  510. Ge0rG What does it mean?
  511. lovetox for your next mam request in the future
  512. Ge0rG Ah.
  513. Holger So while MAM is in action, you process both the MAM response and the live messages, and you de-dup.
  514. lovetox yes
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  518. lovetox the not recording ids of live messages while a mam fetch is in progress is for stuff like
  519. Ge0rG So worst case is that you'll request more messages from MAM if the join was aborted
  520. lovetox when the mam requests aborts in the middle or something like that
  521. lovetox yes
  522. Ge0rG But you do record the stanza IDs of the MAM results?
  523. lovetox of course
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  525. lovetox point is, as long as im not receiving a complete=true with stanza id
  526. lovetox i display all live messages, but i dont record stanza-ids
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  529. lovetox when im in sync (complete=true) every muc messges moves the last-stanza-id
  530. Ge0rG Somebody should write down all these dirty tricks
  531. emus ! I told you guys we need a "Did you know?" section in the XMPP Newsletter
  532. Ge0rG Like using MAM to apply stanza IDs to your previously sent messages, or when to advance the last ID
  533. Ge0rG emus: we need those sections in the XEPs
  534. Ge0rG Which is actually sad.
  535. emus Sure
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