XSF Discussion - 2020-10-30

Can someone provide me with a temporary test account on a public server that has a certificate chain longer than two certificates please?

does let's encrypt count?

My Let'sEncrypt cert has no intermediate certs in the chain

(so: no?)

if only we had xmpp.net

Pretty sure it has one intermediate

Then my count is off somewhere, checking...

If only Let's Encrypt had any competition left

ah, the chain that I am looking at doesn't include the CA cert

that's why I thought it didn't have an intermediate. My bad. Thanks Zash

Guus: So you no longer need an account? (Otherwise I could give you one with two intermediates.)

Holger, please do

a check for more than one is always interesting.

hm about the council discussion

delay on subject is the edit date on the subject or not?

or am i misremembering that

for the idea to add it to MAM

yeah, just note that it can only be in MAM

it can not be part of the MUC history

which is kind of weird, but i guess nobody wants to use MUC History anyway

whats also weird is

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#subject-mod

> As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history. ✏

SHOULD is wrong here in my opinion

there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#order

and its a MUST

lovetox: MAM doesn't solve the problem of seamlessly switching between history and live messages.

I never understood why I'm the only one bothered by that

why not?

with deduplicating this works fine

It's an ugly hack.

And you need MUC history for the dedup

Ge0rG, i think its a very low priority problem

literally never seen a issue regarding that

Or you need to fill the gap after receiving the first message after you joined.

lovetox: you don't see the issue because it's a race condition that's not happening often, and users are used to xmpp losing messages

im not sure i see the problem, i join i request 0 history

i receive a live message

When do you fetch MAM?

i request MAM, and sort all messages into my chat view according to the timestamp and order i receive from MAM

But when do you request it?

after successful join

after the subject

And you request everything after the last message you had in MAM before starting the join?

no

join -> receive subject -> request MAM

Request MAM with which parameters?

the last stanza id i received, of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids

and the last mam page gives me all the live messages received while i fetched mam

so its fine at the end

That sounds a bit racy

this would need to be answered by a server dev

It's definitely racy 🙂

i dont see it

Making this non-racy would require some cluster-wide locks server-side.

i receive the last mam page with the last message then i record that stanza id

at that moment im definitly fine

Well maybe I misunderstood. What I understood was: You issue a MAM-request, wait for the response, and effectively throw away any live messages received while you're waiting for the MAM response to be completed, right?

no

no message is dropped

That's also what I understood

no i don’t record ids

Them I misunderstood "of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids".

normally when a live message comes in

you have to record the id

this is now your last stanza -id

What does it mean?

for your next mam request in the future

Ah.

So while MAM is in action, you process both the MAM response and the live messages, and you de-dup.

yes

the not recording ids of live messages while a mam fetch is in progress is for stuff like

So worst case is that you'll request more messages from MAM if the join was aborted

when the mam requests aborts in the middle or something like that

yes

But you do record the stanza IDs of the MAM results?

of course

point is, as long as im not receiving a complete=true with stanza id

i display all live messages, but i dont record stanza-ids

when im in sync (complete=true) every muc messges moves the last-stanza-id

Somebody should write down all these dirty tricks

! I told you guys we need a "Did you know?" section in the XMPP Newsletter

Like using MAM to apply stanza IDs to your previously sent messages, or when to advance the last ID

emus: we need those sections in the XEPs

Which is actually sad.

Sure