XSF Discussion - 2020-10-30


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  310. Guus

    Can someone provide me with a temporary test account on a public server that has a certificate chain longer than two certificates please?

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  312. Ge0rG

    does let's encrypt count?

  313. Guus

    My Let'sEncrypt cert has no intermediate certs in the chain

  314. Guus

    (so: no?)

  315. Ge0rG

    if only we had xmpp.net

  316. Zash

    Pretty sure it has one intermediate

  317. Guus

    Then my count is off somewhere, checking...

  318. Zash

    If only Let's Encrypt had any competition left

  319. Guus

    ah, the chain that I am looking at doesn't include the CA cert

  320. Guus

    that's why I thought it didn't have an intermediate. My bad. Thanks Zash

  321. Holger

    Guus: So you no longer need an account? (Otherwise I could give you one with two intermediates.)

  322. Guus

    Holger, please do

  323. Guus

    a check for more than one is always interesting.

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  434. lovetox

    hm about the council discussion

  435. lovetox

    delay on subject is the edit date on the subject or not?

  436. lovetox

    or am i misremembering that

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  441. lovetox

    for the idea to add it to MAM

  442. lovetox

    yeah, just note that it can only be in MAM

  443. lovetox

    it can not be part of the MUC history

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  445. lovetox

    which is kind of weird, but i guess nobody wants to use MUC History anyway

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  447. lovetox

    whats also weird is

  448. lovetox

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#subject-mod

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  450. lovetox

    As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.

  451. lovetox

    > As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.

  452. lovetox

    SHOULD is wrong here in my opinion

  453. lovetox

    there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#order

  454. lovetox

    and its a MUST

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  463. Ge0rG

    lovetox: MAM doesn't solve the problem of seamlessly switching between history and live messages.

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  465. Ge0rG

    I never understood why I'm the only one bothered by that

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  467. lovetox

    why not?

  468. lovetox

    with deduplicating this works fine

  469. Ge0rG

    It's an ugly hack.

  470. Ge0rG

    And you need MUC history for the dedup

  471. lovetox

    Ge0rG, i think its a very low priority problem

  472. lovetox

    literally never seen a issue regarding that

  473. Ge0rG

    Or you need to fill the gap after receiving the first message after you joined.

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  475. Ge0rG

    lovetox: you don't see the issue because it's a race condition that's not happening often, and users are used to xmpp losing messages

  476. lovetox

    im not sure i see the problem, i join i request 0 history

  477. lovetox

    i receive a live message

  478. Ge0rG

    When do you fetch MAM?

  479. lovetox

    i request MAM, and sort all messages into my chat view according to the timestamp and order i receive from MAM

  480. Ge0rG

    But when do you request it?

  481. lovetox

    after successful join

  482. lovetox

    after the subject

  483. Ge0rG

    And you request everything after the last message you had in MAM before starting the join?

  484. lovetox

    no

  485. lovetox

    join -> receive subject -> request MAM

  486. Ge0rG

    Request MAM with which parameters?

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  488. lovetox

    the last stanza id i received, of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids

  489. lovetox

    and the last mam page gives me all the live messages received while i fetched mam

  490. lovetox

    so its fine at the end

  491. Ge0rG

    That sounds a bit racy

  492. lovetox

    this would need to be answered by a server dev

  493. Holger

    It's definitely racy 🙂

  494. lovetox

    i dont see it

  495. Holger

    Making this non-racy would require some cluster-wide locks server-side.

  496. lovetox

    i receive the last mam page with the last message then i record that stanza id

  497. lovetox

    at that moment im definitly fine

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  500. Holger

    Well maybe I misunderstood. What I understood was: You issue a MAM-request, wait for the response, and effectively throw away any live messages received while you're waiting for the MAM response to be completed, right?

  501. lovetox

    no

  502. lovetox

    no message is dropped

  503. Ge0rG

    That's also what I understood

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  505. lovetox

    no i don’t record ids

  506. Holger

    Them I misunderstood "of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids".

  507. lovetox

    normally when a live message comes in

  508. lovetox

    you have to record the id

  509. lovetox

    this is now your last stanza -id

  510. Ge0rG

    What does it mean?

  511. lovetox

    for your next mam request in the future

  512. Ge0rG

    Ah.

  513. Holger

    So while MAM is in action, you process both the MAM response and the live messages, and you de-dup.

  514. lovetox

    yes

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  518. lovetox

    the not recording ids of live messages while a mam fetch is in progress is for stuff like

  519. Ge0rG

    So worst case is that you'll request more messages from MAM if the join was aborted

  520. lovetox

    when the mam requests aborts in the middle or something like that

  521. lovetox

    yes

  522. Ge0rG

    But you do record the stanza IDs of the MAM results?

  523. lovetox

    of course

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  525. lovetox

    point is, as long as im not receiving a complete=true with stanza id

  526. lovetox

    i display all live messages, but i dont record stanza-ids

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  529. lovetox

    when im in sync (complete=true) every muc messges moves the last-stanza-id

  530. Ge0rG

    Somebody should write down all these dirty tricks

  531. emus

    ! I told you guys we need a "Did you know?" section in the XMPP Newsletter

  532. Ge0rG

    Like using MAM to apply stanza IDs to your previously sent messages, or when to advance the last ID

  533. Ge0rG

    emus: we need those sections in the XEPs

  534. Ge0rG

    Which is actually sad.

  535. emus

    Sure

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