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Guus
Can someone provide me with a temporary test account on a public server that has a certificate chain longer than two certificates please?
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Ge0rG
does let's encrypt count?
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Guus
My Let'sEncrypt cert has no intermediate certs in the chain
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Guus
(so: no?)
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Ge0rG
if only we had xmpp.net
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Zash
Pretty sure it has one intermediate
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Guus
Then my count is off somewhere, checking...
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Zash
If only Let's Encrypt had any competition left
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Guus
ah, the chain that I am looking at doesn't include the CA cert
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Guus
that's why I thought it didn't have an intermediate. My bad. Thanks Zash
16:05:47
Holger
Guus: So you no longer need an account? (Otherwise I could give you one with two intermediates.)
16:06:00
Guus
Holger, please do
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Guus
a check for more than one is always interesting.
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lovetox
hm about the council discussion
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lovetox
delay on subject is the edit date on the subject or not?
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lovetox
or am i misremembering that
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lovetox
for the idea to add it to MAM
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lovetox
yeah, just note that it can only be in MAM
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lovetox
it can not be part of the MUC history
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lovetox
which is kind of weird, but i guess nobody wants to use MUC History anyway
19:57:27
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lovetox
whats also weird is
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lovetox
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#subject-mod
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lovetox
As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.
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lovetox
> As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.
19:58:09
lovetox
SHOULD is wrong here in my opinion
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lovetox
there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#order
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lovetox
and its a MUST
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Ge0rG
lovetox: MAM doesn't solve the problem of seamlessly switching between history and live messages.
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Ge0rG
I never understood why I'm the only one bothered by that
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lovetox
why not?
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lovetox
with deduplicating this works fine
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Ge0rG
It's an ugly hack.
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Ge0rG
And you need MUC history for the dedup
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lovetox
Ge0rG, i think its a very low priority problem
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lovetox
literally never seen a issue regarding that
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Ge0rG
Or you need to fill the gap after receiving the first message after you joined.
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Ge0rG
lovetox: you don't see the issue because it's a race condition that's not happening often, and users are used to xmpp losing messages
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lovetox
im not sure i see the problem, i join i request 0 history
20:19:06
lovetox
i receive a live message
20:19:20
Ge0rG
When do you fetch MAM?
20:19:26
lovetox
i request MAM, and sort all messages into my chat view according to the timestamp and order i receive from MAM
20:19:58
Ge0rG
But when do you request it?
20:20:06
lovetox
after successful join
20:20:10
lovetox
after the subject
20:20:39
Ge0rG
And you request everything after the last message you had in MAM before starting the join?
20:20:50
lovetox
no
20:21:00
lovetox
join -> receive subject -> request MAM
20:21:23
Ge0rG
Request MAM with which parameters?
20:21:26
Andrzej
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lovetox
the last stanza id i received, of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids
20:23:16
lovetox
and the last mam page gives me all the live messages received while i fetched mam
20:23:28
lovetox
so its fine at the end
20:23:42
Ge0rG
That sounds a bit racy
20:25:03
lovetox
this would need to be answered by a server dev
20:25:33
Holger
It's definitely racy π
20:26:51
lovetox
i dont see it
20:26:51
Holger
Making this non-racy would require some cluster-wide locks server-side.
20:27:03
lovetox
i receive the last mam page with the last message then i record that stanza id
20:27:08
lovetox
at that moment im definitly fine
20:28:14
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Holger
Well maybe I misunderstood. What I understood was: You issue a MAM-request, wait for the response, and effectively throw away any live messages received while you're waiting for the MAM response to be completed, right?
20:28:42
lovetox
no
20:28:56
lovetox
no message is dropped
20:28:58
Ge0rG
That's also what I understood
20:29:04
intosi
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20:29:08
lovetox
no i donβt record ids
20:29:16
Holger
Them I misunderstood "of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids".
20:29:19
lovetox
normally when a live message comes in
20:29:22
lovetox
you have to record the id
20:29:30
lovetox
this is now your last stanza -id
20:29:34
Ge0rG
What does it mean?
20:29:35
lovetox
for your next mam request in the future
20:29:42
Ge0rG
Ah.
20:30:04
Holger
So while MAM is in action, you process both the MAM response and the live messages, and you de-dup.
20:30:11
lovetox
yes
20:30:25
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DebXWoody
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lovetox
the not recording ids of live messages while a mam fetch is in progress is for stuff like
20:32:22
Ge0rG
So worst case is that you'll request more messages from MAM if the join was aborted
20:32:41
lovetox
when the mam requests aborts in the middle or something like that
20:32:50
lovetox
yes
20:33:23
Ge0rG
But you do record the stanza IDs of the MAM results?
20:33:29
lovetox
of course
20:33:45
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20:33:45
lovetox
point is, as long as im not receiving a complete=true with stanza id
20:33:58
lovetox
i display all live messages, but i dont record stanza-ids
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20:34:28
lovetox
when im in sync (complete=true) every muc messges moves the last-stanza-id
20:35:54
Ge0rG
Somebody should write down all these dirty tricks
20:36:30
emus
! I told you guys we need a "Did you know?" section in the XMPP Newsletter
20:36:40
Ge0rG
Like using MAM to apply stanza IDs to your previously sent messages, or when to advance the last ID
20:37:19
Ge0rG
emus: we need those sections in the XEPs
20:37:26
Ge0rG
Which is actually sad.
20:37:58
emus
Sure
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