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15:59:19 Guus
Can someone provide me with a temporary test account on a public server that has a certificate chain longer than two certificates please?
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15:59:55 Ge0rG
does let's encrypt count?
16:00:12 Guus
My Let'sEncrypt cert has no intermediate certs in the chain
16:00:15 Guus
(so: no?)
16:00:45 Ge0rG
if only we had xmpp.net
16:00:46 Zash
Pretty sure it has one intermediate
16:01:03 Guus
Then my count is off somewhere, checking...
16:01:41 Zash
If only Let's Encrypt had any competition left
16:04:03 Guus
ah, the chain that I am looking at doesn't include the CA cert
16:04:27 Guus
that's why I thought it didn't have an intermediate. My bad. Thanks Zash
16:05:47 Holger
Guus: So you no longer need an account? (Otherwise I could give you one with two intermediates.)
16:06:00 Guus
Holger, please do
16:06:09 Guus
a check for more than one is always interesting.
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19:48:15 lovetox
hm about the council discussion
19:48:50 lovetox
delay on subject is the edit date on the subject or not?
19:49:07 lovetox
or am i misremembering that
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19:55:00 lovetox
for the idea to add it to MAM
19:55:09 lovetox
yeah, just note that it can only be in MAM
19:55:20 lovetox
it can not be part of the MUC history
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19:55:44 lovetox
which is kind of weird, but i guess nobody wants to use MUC History anyway
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19:57:35 lovetox
whats also weird is
19:57:36 lovetox
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#subject-mod
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19:57:45 lovetox
As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.
19:57:55 lovetox
> As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.
19:58:09 lovetox
SHOULD is wrong here in my opinion
19:58:34 lovetox
there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#order
19:58:38 lovetox
and its a MUST
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20:14:27 Ge0rG
lovetox: MAM doesn't solve the problem of seamlessly switching between history and live messages.
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20:14:59 Ge0rG
I never understood why I'm the only one bothered by that
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20:16:44 lovetox
why not?
20:17:00 lovetox
with deduplicating this works fine
20:17:21 Ge0rG
It's an ugly hack.
20:17:46 Ge0rG
And you need MUC history for the dedup
20:17:55 lovetox
Ge0rG, i think its a very low priority problem
20:18:03 lovetox
literally never seen a issue regarding that
20:18:10 Ge0rG
Or you need to fill the gap after receiving the first message after you joined.
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20:18:47 Ge0rG
lovetox: you don't see the issue because it's a race condition that's not happening often, and users are used to xmpp losing messages
20:19:00 lovetox
im not sure i see the problem, i join i request 0 history
20:19:06 lovetox
i receive a live message
20:19:20 Ge0rG
When do you fetch MAM?
20:19:26 lovetox
i request MAM, and sort all messages into my chat view according to the timestamp and order i receive from MAM
20:19:58 Ge0rG
But when do you request it?
20:20:06 lovetox
after successful join
20:20:10 lovetox
after the subject
20:20:39 Ge0rG
And you request everything after the last message you had in MAM before starting the join?
20:20:50 lovetox
no
20:21:00 lovetox
join -> receive subject -> request MAM
20:21:23 Ge0rG
Request MAM with which parameters?
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20:21:58 lovetox
the last stanza id i received, of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids
20:23:16 lovetox
and the last mam page gives me all the live messages received while i fetched mam
20:23:28 lovetox
so its fine at the end
20:23:42 Ge0rG
That sounds a bit racy
20:25:03 lovetox
this would need to be answered by a server dev
20:25:33 Holger
It's definitely racy 🙂
20:26:51 lovetox
i dont see it
20:26:51 Holger
Making this non-racy would require some cluster-wide locks server-side.
20:27:03 lovetox
i receive the last mam page with the last message then i record that stanza id
20:27:08 lovetox
at that moment im definitly fine
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20:28:27 Holger
Well maybe I misunderstood. What I understood was: You issue a MAM-request, wait for the response, and effectively throw away any live messages received while you're waiting for the MAM response to be completed, right?
20:28:42 lovetox
no
20:28:56 lovetox
no message is dropped
20:28:58 Ge0rG
That's also what I understood
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20:29:08 lovetox
no i don’t record ids
20:29:16 Holger
Them I misunderstood "of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids".
20:29:19 lovetox
normally when a live message comes in
20:29:22 lovetox
you have to record the id
20:29:30 lovetox
this is now your last stanza -id
20:29:34 Ge0rG
What does it mean?
20:29:35 lovetox
for your next mam request in the future
20:29:42 Ge0rG
Ah.
20:30:04 Holger
So while MAM is in action, you process both the MAM response and the live messages, and you de-dup.
20:30:11 lovetox
yes
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20:32:14 lovetox
the not recording ids of live messages while a mam fetch is in progress is for stuff like
20:32:22 Ge0rG
So worst case is that you'll request more messages from MAM if the join was aborted
20:32:41 lovetox
when the mam requests aborts in the middle or something like that
20:32:50 lovetox
yes
20:33:23 Ge0rG
But you do record the stanza IDs of the MAM results?
20:33:29 lovetox
of course
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20:33:45 lovetox
point is, as long as im not receiving a complete=true with stanza id
20:33:58 lovetox
i display all live messages, but i dont record stanza-ids
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20:34:28 lovetox
when im in sync (complete=true) every muc messges moves the last-stanza-id
20:35:54 Ge0rG
Somebody should write down all these dirty tricks
20:36:30 emus
! I told you guys we need a "Did you know?" section in the XMPP Newsletter
20:36:40 Ge0rG
Like using MAM to apply stanza IDs to your previously sent messages, or when to advance the last ID
20:37:19 Ge0rG
emus: we need those sections in the XEPs
20:37:26 Ge0rG
Which is actually sad.
20:37:58 emus
Sure
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