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Guus
15:59:19
Can someone provide me with a temporary test account on a public server that has a certificate chain longer than two certificates please?
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Ge0rG
15:59:55
does let's encrypt count?
Guus
16:00:12
My Let'sEncrypt cert has no intermediate certs in the chain
Guus
16:00:15
(so: no?)
Ge0rG
16:00:45
if only we had xmpp.net
Zash
16:00:46
Pretty sure it has one intermediate
Guus
16:01:03
Then my count is off somewhere, checking...
Zash
16:01:41
If only Let's Encrypt had any competition left
Guus
16:04:03
ah, the chain that I am looking at doesn't include the CA cert
Guus
16:04:27
that's why I thought it didn't have an intermediate. My bad. Thanks Zash
Holger
16:05:47
Guus: So you no longer need an account? (Otherwise I could give you one with two intermediates.)
Guus
16:06:00
Holger, please do
Guus
16:06:09
a check for more than one is always interesting.
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lovetox
19:48:15
hm about the council discussion
lovetox
19:48:50
delay on subject is the edit date on the subject or not?
lovetox
19:49:07
or am i misremembering that
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lovetox
19:55:00
for the idea to add it to MAM
lovetox
19:55:09
yeah, just note that it can only be in MAM
lovetox
19:55:20
it can not be part of the MUC history
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lovetox
19:55:44
which is kind of weird, but i guess nobody wants to use MUC History anyway
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lovetox
19:57:35
whats also weird is
lovetox
19:57:36
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#subject-mod
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lovetox
19:57:45
As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history. ✎
lovetox
19:57:55
> As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history. ✏
lovetox
19:58:09
SHOULD is wrong here in my opinion
lovetox
19:58:34
there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#order
lovetox
19:58:38
and its a MUST
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Ge0rG
20:14:27
lovetox: MAM doesn't solve the problem of seamlessly switching between history and live messages.
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Ge0rG
20:14:59
I never understood why I'm the only one bothered by that
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lovetox
20:16:44
why not?
lovetox
20:17:00
with deduplicating this works fine
Ge0rG
20:17:21
It's an ugly hack.
Ge0rG
20:17:46
And you need MUC history for the dedup
lovetox
20:17:55
Ge0rG, i think its a very low priority problem
lovetox
20:18:03
literally never seen a issue regarding that
Ge0rG
20:18:10
Or you need to fill the gap after receiving the first message after you joined.
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Ge0rG
20:18:47
lovetox: you don't see the issue because it's a race condition that's not happening often, and users are used to xmpp losing messages
lovetox
20:19:00
im not sure i see the problem, i join i request 0 history
lovetox
20:19:06
i receive a live message
Ge0rG
20:19:20
When do you fetch MAM?
lovetox
20:19:26
i request MAM, and sort all messages into my chat view according to the timestamp and order i receive from MAM
Ge0rG
20:19:58
But when do you request it?
lovetox
20:20:06
after successful join
lovetox
20:20:10
after the subject
Ge0rG
20:20:39
And you request everything after the last message you had in MAM before starting the join?
lovetox
20:20:50
no
lovetox
20:21:00
join -> receive subject -> request MAM
Ge0rG
20:21:23
Request MAM with which parameters?
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lovetox
20:21:58
the last stanza id i received, of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids
lovetox
20:23:16
and the last mam page gives me all the live messages received while i fetched mam
lovetox
20:23:28
so its fine at the end
Ge0rG
20:23:42
That sounds a bit racy
lovetox
20:25:03
this would need to be answered by a server dev
Holger
20:25:33
It's definitely racy 🙂
lovetox
20:26:51
i dont see it
Holger
20:26:51
Making this non-racy would require some cluster-wide locks server-side.
lovetox
20:27:03
i receive the last mam page with the last message then i record that stanza id
lovetox
20:27:08
at that moment im definitly fine
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Holger
20:28:27
Well maybe I misunderstood. What I understood was: You issue a MAM-request, wait for the response, and effectively throw away any live messages received while you're waiting for the MAM response to be completed, right?
lovetox
20:28:42
no
lovetox
20:28:56
no message is dropped
Ge0rG
20:28:58
That's also what I understood
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lovetox
20:29:08
no i don’t record ids
Holger
20:29:16
Them I misunderstood "of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids".
lovetox
20:29:19
normally when a live message comes in
lovetox
20:29:22
you have to record the id
lovetox
20:29:30
this is now your last stanza -id
Ge0rG
20:29:34
What does it mean?
lovetox
20:29:35
for your next mam request in the future
Ge0rG
20:29:42
Ah.
Holger
20:30:04
So while MAM is in action, you process both the MAM response and the live messages, and you de-dup.
lovetox
20:30:11
yes
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DebXWoody
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lovetox
20:32:14
the not recording ids of live messages while a mam fetch is in progress is for stuff like
Ge0rG
20:32:22
So worst case is that you'll request more messages from MAM if the join was aborted
lovetox
20:32:41
when the mam requests aborts in the middle or something like that
lovetox
20:32:50
yes
Ge0rG
20:33:23
But you do record the stanza IDs of the MAM results?
lovetox
20:33:29
of course
ChronosX88
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20:33:45
lovetox
20:33:45
point is, as long as im not receiving a complete=true with stanza id
lovetox
20:33:58
i display all live messages, but i dont record stanza-ids
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lovetox
20:34:28
when im in sync (complete=true) every muc messges moves the last-stanza-id
Ge0rG
20:35:54
Somebody should write down all these dirty tricks
emus
20:36:30
! I told you guys we need a "Did you know?" section in the XMPP Newsletter
Ge0rG
20:36:40
Like using MAM to apply stanza IDs to your previously sent messages, or when to advance the last ID
Ge0rG
20:37:19
emus: we need those sections in the XEPs
Ge0rG
20:37:26
Which is actually sad.
emus
20:37:58
Sure
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